Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: A logs problem with NEC projector and DSS-200 dolby server

This is topic A logs problem with NEC projector and DSS-200 dolby server in forum Digital Cinema Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Sungsoo Bae (Member # 9053) on 09-15-2015, 10:18 PM:

I have a logs extracting problem. I tried to extract logs from the NEC projector with Dolby dss-200 and a logs extracting percentage bar showed up in server screen. The logs were over 7,000 but i waited them until 100%.
When it reached to 100%, it went back to the beginning 0%.
It went to 100% 3 times but it went back to 0%.
I can i fix it? I've tried to find a solution in here but couldn't find it out.
Help me guys!!

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 09-16-2015, 07:06 AM:

If the command line log extraction routine is used (must have System 4.7 or later), you will get a large extraction that will take the better part of an hour.

Then, after EACH show for the next 16 shows, you'll get a smaller extraction of approximately 512 logs.

Once this is invoked, there is no turning back, it will continue to extract the logs on those 16 shows. If you go back to command line and use the log extraction routine again...you just start the entire process over again.

What I normally do is to set up 16 5-second shows (use a 5-second blank) and set them to run every 5 minutes...you'll have all of the log extraction done in 1-Hour 20-Minutes.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 09-16-2015, 10:03 AM:

I'm note sure we are talking of the same thing. Enigma logs download in bunch of 500, where did you see the 7000 number?

What logs are you trying to download?

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 09-16-2015, 05:31 PM:

If the command line extraction routine is invoked...you can get up to 8192 logs in one pass...hence I think he tried that and now thinks that it will continue to do it forever.

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 09-16-2015, 05:55 PM:

It seems like a significant amount of time is spent worrying about and instructing people on how to delete/download/remove logs from digital cinema equipment. Note the enigma stuff that will apparently flat-out die permanently due to some sort of log overflow.

This leads me to two questions: What's the actual purpose of these logs? I can't believe that they are there merely to fill up space and create extra work getting rid of them. Or are they?

Second, it seems obvious that when you have a finite amount of space available for something, you need to implement a method for keeping that space from getting overloaded. Shouldn't digital cinema equipment have something like logrotate built in so these situations would never occur and nobody would ever have to care about it? "Keep the logs newer than 7 days" or "Keep logs up to a maximum of X kb and then delete the oldest ones" isn't a particularly difficult concept for anyone to grasp.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 09-17-2015, 01:48 AM:

The purpose is... who knows. I'm sure there are lots of people at DCI inspecting those logs every day [Smile]

The enigma doesn't die anymore with 1.8.

Steve,
I see where the confusion may be coming from. Are you saying that after running the script the server will then extract logs in packs of 512 till the whole lot is extracted? I've never used the script myself but I thought the purpose of it was to eliminate that 16 shows delay. If that's what happens what's the purpose of the script?

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 09-17-2015, 06:43 AM:

After running the script...the server will call for all 8192 logs in one pass (if there are that many to remove)...after it is done with that (the process takes about an hour)...it will also set the security tamper flag that triggers the 512 logs per-show until all 8192 logs are again pulled...so it gets them twice.

The logs are pulled by the server and those logs are extracted from the server when a TMS system (or via the SMS system) does an audit log export. These are used as proof-positive of what actually ran and what was licensed.

However, from what I can tell, the only people (outside of possibly a theatre chain that might actually care about looking at audit logs) that ever cared about those logs are for the VPF plans since VPF fees are supposed to be based on what is actually shown. Think of them as the receipt of that.

I think it is absolutely crazy that the entire industry is saddled with this BS for what is a time-finite situation (VPFs). The last of the VPFs should be done by around 2020 or 2022 (I forget the exact year the last one should vanish). There are tons of private/independent systems that ZERO connection to the internet that shouldn't be saddled with such burdens and potential for show interruption/cancellation due to some studio's paranoia. If there is no way to read them, what good are they (referring to the inability for the concerned party to ever get a copy of the logs...one can certainly read them if they are really bored with life).

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 09-17-2015, 07:37 AM:

A friend of mine recently had a broken show due to log overflow. I told him to have his machine updated to Enigma 1.8 earlier this year, but he missed it.

Bascially, DLP systems are setup so that a log memory overflow should never occur - and on a lot of systems, it works like that, at least if they are on more recent software.
There are just some special conditions where it doesn't. But it was never meant that operators should have the need to pull logs manually. And the enigma memory corruption software flaw was another bump along that road.

When we consider the fact that you are allowed to play up to 6 hours beyond the KDM time period once a show has started, it is obvious someone had exhibition in mind. No running show should ever be interrupted by an overly tight security implementation. The same should be true for log memory overflow - they should work like a ring buffer and overwrite earlier entries if needed, but never stop a running show.

However, that somehow is a catch22 against the DCI maxime, control lightly, audit tightly, because if logs are lost, you can no longer audit tightly.

Well, I hope with updated server software and Enigma 1.8+, we will not encounter these issues anymore. After all, it only happens on legacy systems, if you want to call HD-SDI based systems like that.

Also, it's a weird thing that some of these flaws hit so late after initial system deployment. It can be years after the machine went out of warranty that an error hits that was actually there right from the start.

- Carsten

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 09-17-2015, 11:39 AM:

Note, HDSDI systems are not really a thing of the past. In fact, that is our preferred system. For most 2K systems, IMB based solutions offer no real advantage unless you want HFR 3D (an even smaller minority). There are significant cost savings to using SDI based server (GDC SX-2001, Doremi 2K4 or DCP2000...all current production as of this writing). And with the SDI based servers...one need not have a specified boot up/shut down order...etc.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 09-17-2015, 03:50 PM:

quote: Steve Guttag
after it is done with that (the process takes about an hour)...it will also set the security tamper flag that triggers the 512 logs per-show until all 8192 logs are again pulled...so it gets them twice.

What's the point of the script then? I thought it was for clearing the log backlog in one go without having to go with the 11-shows nonsense!

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 09-17-2015, 04:32 PM:

The point is when you see the "almost full" warning, you can (even remotely) force the server to pull EVERYTHING and clear the error (I've done it too many times). The 16-show thing is an unintended consequence. One of the release notes claims to have fixed it but I have not ever seen it not set that security flag and pull logs from the next 16 shows.

In truth, since Enigma 1.8, this has dropped into a "thing from the past" so the few times I've used it, it really isn't a bother.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 09-17-2015, 04:45 PM:

Thanks. I thought it was a way to clear the logs and avoid having to run the multiple shows.

Personally I've never fixed an Enigma in warning state by extracting the logs, they all failed regardless. In the past, indeed [Smile]