Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Incredible shrinking shipping cases

This is topic Incredible shrinking shipping cases in forum Digital Cinema Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 10-13-2015, 06:51 PM:

Here's the newest hard drive shipping container we've gotten from Deluxe. I would say it's about 1/4 the size of the previous gray boxes. It's about the size of a thick book.

The inside has that rigid foam rather than the bouncy stuff from the previous cases; I wonder if the jarring in shipping will lead to more drive problems?

A nice touch is the top is covered with that "label release" type of material that a shipping label will stick firmly, but will peel off easily.

Also they have apparently done away with paperwork included with the drive (at least, there was none with this drive). It's pretty much unneeded anyway, but the credit-offset is not printed on the drive label either. C'mon guys, put it somewhere willya?

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 10-13-2015, 07:00 PM:

I think that now they've stopped sending CRU adapters they realized their cases were crazy oversize. I've seen many with the drive bouncing loosely in the cavity with none of the smaller foam pieces.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 10-13-2015, 08:14 PM:

I did get one of the old larger boxes with a rigid foam insert that had slots cut out for three or four drives. But yeah, the drives bounce around pretty good in the larger boxes.

Posted by James Westbrook (Member # 3690) on 10-13-2015, 11:39 PM:

Deluxe wants everyone to use their website to get the credit offset data, which if the movie is from some independent distributors will not be on that site despite the drive being shipped by Deluxe.

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 10-14-2015, 12:00 AM:

I had one the other day where the little locking finger on the end of the lever on the front of the drive was broken off. The lever was there but the little finger was gone. It loaded fine, though it didn't latch into the drive bay.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 10-14-2015, 02:25 AM:

Saw one of those new cases at another theatre tonight. Didn't recognize it then. Interesting.

Overall, our experience with the system has been pretty good. Even with the strangely insecure foam padding, we haven't received a failed drive. The drives generally show up on time and the keys have always worked.

Just the volume of trailers we get every week and the ability to show (and change) what we want without having to pull the center of the film load out and splice things around is almost worth the cost of the upgrade. Well... that's a bit of an exaggeration, but you get the point. It was hard enough for a non-chain theatre to get the trailers they needed, even before the labs started backing off.

The system does take a bit of babysitting, as did film, but not all of that is Deluxe's fault. Most often, it's a booking or holdover problem, which one might chalk up to "failure to communicate". In the few cases where a drive hasn't made it here in time to show, we've been able to borrow them from a competitor we get along with pretty well. Paying attention to what you've got and what you need, and getting on any issues mid-week takes care of nearly all problems without really much effort.

As Bobby Bare sings... 'there ain't no ten'... but I'd say the system is up to somewhere around a 'B'.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 10-14-2015, 03:36 AM:

Since Deluxe Technicolor did the merger, they prob decided on coming up with this shipment design to cut down shipping charges for both ways since we are dealing with something lighter and less expensive to manufacture. I got four of them today, but not the first time.

Yet, also did receive my TMBD trailer drive in the classic orange Pelican case.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 10-14-2015, 06:08 AM:

Small?

https://www.cru-inc.com/products/digital-cinema/dc-mini-carrying-case/

These can snug into a letter box as a large envelope.

- Carsten

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 10-14-2015, 09:48 AM:

What is so special about the "DCmini Cartridge" that is meant to accompany the above case? Unless I'm missing something, it looks like it's just a portable USB hard drive.

Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 10-14-2015, 11:24 AM:

I've been getting those smaller shipping boxes for a a couple of months,
but then again, most of the shows I do are press, preview, or Academy
screenings, and are often shipped outside of the "standard" distribution
channels. I did notice that at one of the theaters I annoy people at, most
of their features were coming in the the new boxes but they still seemed
to be getting their trailer drives in the orange shipping cases.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 10-14-2015, 11:40 AM:

quote: Jack Ondracek
Overall, our experience with the system has been pretty good. Even with the strangely insecure foam padding, we haven't received a failed drive.

In 5 years, we've only gotten one drive that outright failed to work at all, and of course it had to happen while I was on vacation.

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 10-14-2015, 01:52 PM:

In the two years we've had digital I've had at least two failed drive, possibly three (one of them a couple of weeks ago). Haven't missed a show Tech/Deluxe have been good about getting a replacement here.
Just like with film, if the drive isn't in my hand by Weds morning for a Friday show, I call and check on the delivery. I've had more than enough experiences with film and digital with our show not being in the system to trust it is on its way.
Only one big key snafu (disturb didn't enter the end date properly) but that was with a house full of kids at 10am.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 10-14-2015, 02:25 PM:

I've heard of some of these issues with digital prints & keys. I think my point is that, in the same way it was possible to get defective prints, duplicate reels and, in worst case scenarios, mismatched split-shipments, it's probably unreasonable to expect perfection from digital. The boxes may look different, but it seems somewhat similar "distribution gears" are turning here.

Posted by Stephan Shelley (Member # 8587) on 10-14-2015, 03:30 PM:

Speaking of things arriving late. I loved the keys to The Intern not arriving till 3:30 pm on Thursday and we had a 7pm show that night. I was on the phone several times about it.

Stephan

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 10-14-2015, 03:52 PM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
Also they have apparently done away with paperwork included with the drive (at least, there was none with this drive). It's pretty much unneeded anyway, but the credit-offset is not printed on the drive label either. C'mon guys, put it somewhere willya?

Once in a while, I'll get these without paper info in them, and as with you, I have no idea on credit offset.

Thus, I create my own (and since we both have GDC) where I figure that average credit time is over 6 minutes, I'll make the credit offset 4 minutes before the end time that is listed in the edit cue window. Not the best way, but I'll get my lights up in the mean time.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 10-14-2015, 06:22 PM:

quote: Ken Lackner
What is so special about the "DCmini Cartridge" that is meant to accompany the above case? Unless I'm missing something, it looks like it's just a portable USB hard drive.

The DCmini is CRUs meant-to-be successor for the 'old' standard CRU caddies. It was built to allow much smaller shipping boxes - those that you see when you follow above links. That allows for lower shipping cost and insertion of shipping cases in post boxes, ultimately without any need to sign reception.

It's a full set of CRU adaptor, DCmini cartridge with USB 3.0/2.0 + SATA interface+ cable+fitting shipping case. DCINEX uses it exclusively in europe. Don't know about other countries.

- Carsten

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 10-14-2015, 08:38 PM:

quote: Monte L Fullmer
Once in a while, I'll get these without paper info in them, and as with you, I have no idea on credit offset.

Actually the "published" credit offset is mostly useless anymore anyway, since most movies now have the "major" credits with some extraneous content pasted in with them, even though most of the audience doesn't give a crap and starts walking out in the dark. So I usually adjust the lights-up to happen just after the first credits hit the screen, unless there is actual meaningful content in that "pre-credits" sequence.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 10-15-2015, 06:58 AM:

You all do know you can go here:

http://digitalcinema.bydeluxe.com/

For the PDF version of most of those crumpled up sheets. Not everyone participates but most do of the majors.

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 10-15-2015, 02:24 PM:

Should we be concerned that CRU's site is labeled CRU Acquisition Group? Was there a bankruptcy or buy-out?

They should just take the final plunge and go to thumb drives which can be sent in a padded envelope. Since regular USB is a far slower connection and ingests can take hours, they should be USB3. Since many lack that connection, CRU or a third party could offer a dummy DX115 DC (the HD shell movie hard drives come inside) that would plug in to the existing CRU drive bay but offer a USB3 connection to the outside.

Posted by Marcus Ionis (Member # 7614) on 01-05-2016, 04:01 PM:

We are a small lab and our client is interested in moving towards the DCMini. The goal is to ship out the Protective Case, Drive & USB 3.0 cable. Currently we ship the larger CRU Cases, DX115Drive w/move dock & power cords. I'm curious if anyone has had good, bad or otherwise experience dealing with the DCMini vs the DX115. Appreciate any input or advice as well.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 01-05-2016, 06:12 PM:

Given that even consumers can now buy a 265gb USB thumb drive for under $100, I'm surprised that Deluxe is still shipping CRU hard drives at all. I guess the reason to be that either they have worries over the reliability of large capacity thumb drives, or that there are a significant number of servers in the field that don't have USB outlets but do have CRU ones.

You could send a large capacity thumb drive in the regular mail. Even if you didn't want to do that for security reasons, FedEx or UPS would surely charge a helluva lot less to deliver one than a CRU hard drive, however small the container it ships in.

Furthermore, the cost of 128GB USB sticks is now down to the point of being effectively insignificant, and 99% of DCPs in mainstream distribution would fit on one. I'm surprised that Deluxe/Technicolor is still shipping hard drives around at all.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-06-2016, 07:41 AM:

Well...for one...you can play the movie right off o the CRU drive on all but a couple servers. Most servers don't support USB 3 so you have significant ingest time increases too with USB.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 01-06-2016, 10:52 AM:

As Steve (Kraus) points out, the USB3 issue could be solved by someone making a CRU to USB3 converter, with the replacement unit having both outlets. I suppose some exhibitors would not be keen on the cost of buying one of these, but if they were to get the benefit in reduced shipping charges, that might appease them a bit. But even then, the upgrade wouldn't be essential, if the exhibitor is willing to put up with USB2 ingestion time. I use 128GB USB sticks to transport DCPs I make for our shows all the time: a full one will ingest into our DSS200s in about an hour and a half. OK, that's significantly longer than CRU, but still not a problem for many places.

Yet another advantage to using thumb drives would be an end to mechanical failures of hard drives caused by handling and/or shipping accidents.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-06-2016, 11:14 AM:

That is a chicken/egg situation. I agree that it would be great if there was a CRU/USB 3 adapter...so great that I've requested it from CRU.

Note, I've seen a fair number of USB ports trashed too. I can't remember if I've ever had a CRU receiver go bad...just the occasional bad HDD within the carrier. Note, there are bad USB sticks as well.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 01-06-2016, 11:22 AM:

One issue with the flash drives may be write speed. If a lab (or whoever does this) needs to make thousands of copies of a DCP, this is probably a major sticking point, especially since the infrastructure to deal with cloning large numbers of hard disks already exists.

Also, paradoxically, the small size of flash drives can be a problem, especially for "film" festivals, where it is necessary to keep track of many items that may need to move from venue to venue over the course of the event. As odd as it may seem, the larger form factor of a hard disk in a CRU carrier is actually more convenient, as it is less likely to become lost. On the other hand, hard disks rarely survive being dropped....

If I were a "film" distributor, I would want to send out my distribution copies in the most common format, since that is least likely to cause confusion at theatres. For now, that would be a hard disk in a CRU carrier. I wouldn't send out flash drives for the same reason why I wouldn't ship out 35mm prints on cores to theatres in the US--any "odd" format is likely to cause confusion and possibly lost shows.

I do question the hardiness of the cardboard boxes that Deluxe is using to ship out CRU disks, but they are most likely far cheaper than Pelican cases. No doubt, they wouldn't be using the cheaper packing material if damage to the disks were a major problem.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 01-06-2016, 02:17 PM:

quote: Scott Norwood

I do question the hardiness of the cardboard boxes

They'll be hardy enough to last quite the time.

Inside, the entirety - both lid and base - is lined with hard compressed ESD pink foam where the slot where the drive is placed is slightly smaller to ensure a snug fit for the drive.

When the lid closes over the drive, the lid foam is thick enough to almost "seal" the drive within the case, which the case itself is made from a compressed cardboard paper material to have the endurance of not being easy to tear or rip.

Outside of the case on the label side, is a coating where labels can be easily removed without leaving any residue or difficulty of label removal.

This design is a lot better of what we had before along with shaving five pounds from shipping, and a lot easier to store on shelves.

-Monte

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 01-06-2016, 03:30 PM:

quote:
I do question the hardiness of the cardboard boxes that Deluxe is using to ship out CRU disks,

To add to what Monte noted above, the boxes are constructed such that all the flaps fold in on the sides to make it double-walled on all sides, plus it has the tuck-in flaps on three sides. The outside is finished with a slick coating to make it resistant to moisture and it has a couple of metal grommet-holes to allow for the zip-tie "security measures." (About half the time they forget to include the zip-tie, so I put a strip of packaging tape on.)

Overall I would call it a major improvement. Another plus is since the drive isn't moving around, any insert paperwork doesn't get torn up like it did with the big boxes.

Posted by Marcus Ionis (Member # 7614) on 01-06-2016, 07:56 PM:

We received a sample DCMini for testing purposes. The internal drives is a WD5000LPVX with a casing supporting USB 3.0 and SATA connection. The casing appears pretty solid with no possible loose screws or easy to break plastic. The protective case does keep the drive snug with light/mild padding and the weight is quite less. So far the weight difference looks like 1 vs 7lbs. Which makes a pretty good cost difference.

We were given a CRU Drive Bay Adapter for the DCIMini which would allow us SATA capabilities. Don't know if this would allow proper playback speeds, but I'll find out from the developer.

http://www.provantage.com/cru-6603-6500-0500~7CRUD2C0.htm

There's no room for misc materials, only the USB 3.0 cable. We are looking at the FED EX bubble wrap packaging and other options for additional protection. For security purposes you can zip tie the protective case or add a lock.

Right off the bat, we do like the overall size for shipping purposes. With the traditional DX115 DCP Kits, quite often don't get back the Move Dock and cables. Assuming we don't send out the Drive Bay Adapter in our package. This does help eliminate that headache when pieces are not returned. However, I am concern if the Drive Bay Adapter is an essential item for Projectionist.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 01-07-2016, 10:18 AM:

We receive features on DCmini drives regularly. They are used by the largest european distributor for around 2 years now. We had some minor issues at first, but now they seem to perform flawlessly. Ocassionally we had connection problems through either the SATA or USB connection, but switching to the respective other connection always allowed a proper ingest.

Some very few systems with USB2.0 only ports have trouble with DCmini+drive combinations eating more then 500mA. As these cartridges were built for smaller shipping boxes, it is probably not possible to ship a small USB-Wall-Plug with them, but I would advise to include a dedicated USB-Y Power cable to take care of the current consumption issue. Or at least send one out with the CRU-converter.

Note, these cartridges have full dual USB3.0 and SATA capablities, it is not a converter between one of the two. So there are no compatibility issues using either interface.

I attached a thin loop of gaffer tape to the bottom of the CRU-conversion slot, so it's easier to pull it out without having to grip into the slot. Some people are reluctant to put their fingers into machines...

BTW - we never close the locks on the converter, just pop in and out the drive.
We also usually leave the CRU converter stuck in the server CRU slot, as it seals the CRU slot against air and dirt passthrough.

- Carsten

Posted by Marcus Ionis (Member # 7614) on 01-08-2016, 12:27 PM:

I had contacted CRU if using the DCMini & Drive Bay Adapter will allow realtime playback and they said it should.

Thanks for the info and tips. This is pretty helpful. Any other thoughts, experience or tips is much appreciated.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 01-08-2016, 01:17 PM:

Well, they use 2.5" drives, so they will be somewhat slower than modern 3.5" drives. However, we regularly experience ingest throughput of more than 70MByte/s over both SATA and USB3.0 interfaces, that is enough for real-time play of standard features at least as far as the interface is concerned.

- Carsten

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-08-2016, 05:11 PM:

I know there are 7200RPM 2.5" drives (have been for some time) so that wouldn't necessarily be the hitch. For instance, the Western Digital WD5000LPLX is a 6Gb/s 7200 RPM 500GB drive with 32MB cache.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-08-2016, 07:44 PM:

The PDP-3000 external drive box for the GDC SX-3000 uses 2.5" 1 tb drives. The IMS also uses 2.5" drives but not to any advantage at all.

Mark