Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: On/off NEC NC2000C questions

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Posted by Gronw Roberts (Member # 9141) on 11-11-2015, 07:44 AM:

Hi all, it's nice to meet you!

I'm new to the cinema world so I'm very glad there are plenty of experienced people here that can offer some advice!

We recently had an NEC NC2000C installed and I have a few questions. The tech that installed it took us through how to power up and power down the projector but I have since read the manual and there are discrepancies. The install guy told us to leave the breakers (labeled PJ POWER switch and LAMP POWER switch)to the right of the control panel on when turning the power on at the wall because the main overall breaker (which is always on)is enough. The manual says that leaving the PJ and LAMP switches on when supplying or cutting the power to the projector can damage it. It's made me rather uneasy because I don't want to break anything costly! I have also read here that the PJ POWER and LAMP POWER switches can break when used all the time which has further confused the matter! What is my best choice when turning the projector on and off?

I have also noticed that when I turn off the projector on the panel it seems to skip the cool down countdown, I have not seen it, it just goes to standby. I leave it for at least 10 mins before turning it off at the wall. Why aren't I seeing the cool down countdown?

Thanks in advance.

Posted by Cody Polla (Member # 8283) on 11-11-2015, 09:18 AM:

You will always want to power down the NEC by using the power button (circle with line through it). If you wait 10 minutes to power off the projector after turning off the lamp, no cool down is required. If you power off the projector right after the lamp is powered off, a cool down timer will be present. This can be bypassed in an emergency by powering off the breakers or switches, though not advised.

Once powered off, you can leave the projector in standby or fully power it off. It is left in standby, it can be powered on remotely (from home or office). If it is powered off from a breaker, it will have to be physically powered on from the breaker.

I have heard the switches on the projector are prone to breaking after prolonged use (unless this has changed recently). It is recommended to just power off the breakers in the panel if you wish to kill all power to the projector after use. No difference in powering off the breakers versus the switches. It is not recommended to kill the power at the breaker while the lamp is still powered on, no cooling will occur.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 11-11-2015, 12:43 PM:

I guess that powering ballast and electronics by a bigger switch - the wall breaker - makes your system more prone to receive some power spikes. I believe this is valid for any electronic device, it's always better to switch the device from its switch rather than from a big 32A rotary switch on the wall.
That said, electronics is usually behind a power supply and as such it should be able to filter off anything dangerous.

If you want to be sure, buy an 'online' UPS.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 11-11-2015, 12:50 PM:

The essential thing you need to ensure in order to avoid damage is that the xenon arc light bulb in the projector continues to receive forced air being pushed over it for a significant time after it's no longer lit at the end of your show (this applies to all xenon arc bulbs, not just the one in this model of projector).

The anode (big metal thing in the middle of the bulb) stores a significant amount of residual heat, which it will continue to discharge into the bulb envelope for a few minutes after it is no longer being heated by the arc. In order to avoid that heat building up in the bulb such that at best it weakens the seals and shortens the bulb's life, and at worst blows the bulb up, you need the intake and exhaust fans need to keep going for a while after the bulb is out.

In every booth I've worked, the exhaust fan is a separate appliance (usually in a false ceiling or on the roof), not part of the projector or lamphouse. As such, it is operated by a separate switch or breaker that is located somewhere else in the booth. The projector's intake fans, however, work as Cody describes: they're part of the projector and so controlled by its software. Obviously, if you simply kill the AC power to the projector's electronics, the intake fans will stop. If you press the "Power Off" big button on the front page of Digital Cinema Communicator, then if the lamp is on at the time, it'll kill the lamp and then count 600 seconds (10 minutes) before killing the intake fans as well, as one of the final steps in its shutdown procedure.

If your bulb is 3kW or smaller, the extract ventilation is adequate and the room temperature not excessive, this should be enough. However, if any of these don't apply, and especially if you're using a larger xenon bulb, I'd say leave it for 15 minutes rather than 10. The way you achieve that is to use the "lamp off" smaller button on the right of Digital Cinema Communicator's front page, wait 15 minutes, then power off. If 10 minutes have already elapsed since the bulb was last lit, the power off button on DCC will shut down the projector after only 20 seconds: it knows that it doesn't need to leave time for the bulb to cool.

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 11-11-2015, 01:02 PM:

As mentioned, you should power off your projector using the soft key on the front panel, and allow it to go through the cool down cycle. If the projector has been off for at least 5 minutes, this cool down cycle will only take about 15 second (8 second count down plus processing time).

I strongly recommend against powering off the projector via the white switch on the front panel. These switches are prone to failure, and will most likely fail in the off position - meaning you won't be able to turn on the projector to start the day.

The only time I turn off the the breaker on the projector is when I am going to be changing the lamp or otherwise working inside the projector.

If your projector was installed so the project and lamp are powered separately, then you can plug the projector into a switched power supply and/or UPS. This way you can switch off the projector without having to use the white switch ever. Plugging into a UPS allows your playback to continue in the event of a power outage. Although the lamp will go out, the playback will not stop.

The advantage is that if you have a momentary outage, you will be able to simply pause the playback, rewind a bit if you choose, and relight the lamp. If you do not have the projector on a UPS, then you will have to go through the entire boot process. Your server should be on a UPS either way.

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 11-12-2015, 11:07 AM:

deleted, wrong topic.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-15-2015, 12:59 PM:

If you have an "On Line" type of UPS you can just use the soft keys on that to completely power the projector down after using the projectors on board "power Key" to bring it safely back to standby. I have several customers that do this. NEC's are also the only projectors that have the true standby feature.

Mark

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-15-2015, 02:48 PM:

Huh? What do you mean by that? Christie has a standby mode (that is their normal shut down) and Barco's "S" series is also a standby (sleep) mode.

What in the mind of Mark constitutes a "true standby mode?"

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 11-15-2015, 03:13 PM:

Christie (and Barco S I reckon) don't have a fan always spinning in stand by.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-16-2015, 08:46 AM:

Sorry guys, I'm thinking of series one stuff.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-17-2015, 05:18 AM:

Okay...and Christie Series 1 doesn't have a stand by mode? The S, SB, X, XB M all had standby modes.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-18-2015, 05:49 AM:

I forgot to mention the ZX too had a standby mode.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 11-18-2015, 01:36 PM:

I believe Mark meant the old 1K DLP machines

Posted by Steve Moore (Member # 4753) on 11-18-2015, 03:51 PM:

I'm was not aware of a standby mode on the Series 1 CP2000SB; I have to wait 10 mins and then turn off the projector 2 pole breaker and the three phase, or else the fans and TPC never go off (or did I mis-read the above comment from Steve G)?

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-19-2015, 06:36 AM:

NEC wasn't in the game for the 1.3K machines. DP was still to be the 3rd OEM.

It appears I mis-spoke about the S/SB/X/XB...you are correct, they didn't have a standby mode...the ZX and M did though.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-19-2015, 08:14 AM:

While yous guys get your standbys straight I'm going for coffee and donuts!

Mark

Posted by Steve Moore (Member # 4753) on 11-19-2015, 08:50 AM:

Standby for coffee and donuts or doughnuts next!

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 11-19-2015, 11:51 AM:

we'll discuss about our standby's when you sort out the lamp always on on the NC800 [Smile]

Posted by Gronw Roberts (Member # 9141) on 11-23-2015, 06:30 AM:

Apologies for not replying sooner, it's been a very busy time here recently!

Thank you all for your replies, I have been switching off with the soft switch on the control panel and leaving the projector in stand by mode when not showing films. There seems to be a fan still running while in standby (it sounds like a fan anyway), is this normal? The noise makes one think the projector is more on than off if you know what I mean! It's definitely in standby mode though - constant orange light on top of the projector.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-23-2015, 10:25 AM:

Ye olde "FAN 6" does indeed remain on. FAN 6 is the "AC ON" fan and will run whenever there is power to the projector, even in standby mode. I'm sure the thought is that there is some power to the card cage and thus some amount of air flow is to be retained so long as anything is on...even in standby.

If you are looking at the front of the projector where the filters are (to the left of the lens), Fan 6 is the lower of the two fans behind those filters.

The other fans that can be on are the LPS fans (lamp power supply).

Posted by Gronw Roberts (Member # 9141) on 11-23-2015, 10:35 AM:

Great stuff, thanks Steve.

Posted by Gronw Roberts (Member # 9141) on 12-09-2015, 04:05 PM:

Sorry to ask another question about this! Once the projector is in stand by mode is it safe to turn off AC at the wall straight away? The reason I ask this is because the projector still sounds like all the fans are still running (suggesting to me that it still needs cooling). If I leave it for about 20mins the fan will suddenly get much quieter. I've been waiting till that happens before turning off at the wall, is that necessary?

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 12-09-2015, 06:04 PM:

Once the projector is in stand by mode it is safe to switch it off at the wall. The projector does a 5 minute count down from the bulb off before going into stand by, which should be sufficient. But if you can give it an extra 10-15 minutes, all the better.

Posted by Gronw Roberts (Member # 9141) on 12-10-2015, 11:03 AM:

Thanks Justin.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 12-10-2015, 11:37 AM:

Gronw - I don't know how you organize your screenings or playlists - but it is possible to put a shutdown command at the end of a playlist. That way the projector is entering standby while you still farewell your patrons or clean up the auditorium. So when you get back to the booth, everything is done for the final switch-off. Same can be done for server shutdown, at least on a Doremi.

- Carsten

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-10-2015, 12:04 PM:

Another reason NOT to use those two breakers is because the white power on breaker has a bad habit of failing mechanically. That part is about $80 USD from NEC or 12 USD from an over seas source if you know where. I have installed external power switches on Many of my customer's NEC projectors because this switch ALWAYS breaks in the power off position. I have yet to have the two pole breaker fail but the single power switch on the NC-2000, NC-1200 and NC-900 are failure prone. The NC-900 switch is only sold as an assembly with the entire power PCB. It's quite expensive, but the switch is $9.00 from Digikey or Mouser.

Mark

Posted by Gronw Roberts (Member # 9141) on 12-10-2015, 02:44 PM:

Thanks Mark, we've stopped using the white breaker now, the last thing we need is to not be able to turn the projector on! I wonder why the switches are so fragile on such an expensive machine?

quote: Carsten Kurz
I don't know how you organize your screenings or playlists - but it is possible to put a shutdown command at the end of a playlist. That way the projector is entering standby while you still farewell your patrons or clean up the auditorium. So when you get back to the booth, everything is done for the final switch-off. Same can be done for server shutdown, at least on a Doremi.

- Carsten

For some reason we were only given a handfull of commands for the playlists - Lamp on, lamp off, 2d scope. 2d flat, 3d scope, 3d flat, activate 3d, disable 3d and Digi 1. Is creating these commands hard? There's a macro creator on the Doremi but I wasn't shown how to use it.

Shutting down from the playlist isn't really necessary here to be honest, there's a front of house team that deal with the public and clean up which leaves me free to be in the projection room to sort things out. Interesting to know that it's possible though.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-10-2015, 03:01 PM:

I'm not sure why they used such a cheap breaker either. But then again circuit breakers are also not normally meant to be used as switches. There are switch rated breakers though. It's a German made switch, but except for the contacts is all made of cheap plastic. External switches solves that problem.

Mark

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 12-10-2015, 05:47 PM:

When we bought the Roxy, there were no wall switches in the projection booth except light switches. All the projection and sound was turned on and off via the breaker box on the wall. This continued until the late 80s when we had actual switches put in for the projection and sound systems. So those breakers have lasted the whole 39 years I've been there, with 10 years of daily on-and-off, and who knows how many years before that, without being replaced. They were in there when the place was built (1930) for all I know and they're all still there and working. Too bad NEC uses breakers that won't last more than a few months.

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 12-10-2015, 09:57 PM:

NC1200C

I have the electronics and lamp supply feeds separated. The electronics IEC cord plugs into a little switch/outlet thing I made on my stand and that plugs into the full conversion UPS. So after I shut down from the soft touch button and the bulb goes through the 5 minute cool-down (if it was not already off), and it goes to standby, I turn off that switch. I then kill the circuit for the lamp supply at the breaker panel when shutting down the rest of the booth equipment.

If you accidentally turn off the breaker for the lamp before turning off the electronics, it gets angry and gives you an LPS failure warning.

I would be glad to leave it in standby even if that means leaving the breaker for the LPS on but I don't see the point of leaving those fans grinding away using up their bearing life as well as air filter capacity. (I run a screening room so we are not cranking them out 12 hours a day.)

I never touch the built-in breaker nor the white switch. In fact they are covered over.

Standby mode means only a few things are still powered just like any electronic device with a remote has some bit of electronics active at all times awaiting your remote commend, also nearly any computer that starts from a soft touch button.* Good thing they don't need non stop fans for that!

*I remember the early PC's where the main power control was a switch on the PS that emerged through the side of the case at the rear. My own first PC had a 120V toggle switch on the front that connected back to the PS.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-12-2015, 08:07 AM:

Well, I HAVE sites that have never lost a white switch but use it daily. And all my installs are pretty much the same....

Mark