This is topic Blue line down the middle of the screen on series 2 Barco? in forum Digital Cinema Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=002545

---

Posted by Andrew Thomas (Member # 7000) on 01-10-2016, 09:24 PM:
 
I just got a text from my manager at our drive-in and she said that starting in the middle of the first feature, a solid blue line appeared down the middle of the screen.

Any quick tips on what I can do that doesn't involve a multi-thousand dollar part replacement

phone pic of problem
 

---

Posted by Brian DeCiancio (Member # 1422) on 01-10-2016, 09:58 PM:
 
A projector reboot has all but one time corrected color issues for me.

The one time it didn't work is when the light engine finally failed.
 

---

Posted by Andrew Thomas (Member # 7000) on 01-10-2016, 10:04 PM:
 
Apparently, a full reboot had the line go away for about 10 minutes before it reappeared.
 

---

Posted by Rick Cohen (Member # 6140) on 01-10-2016, 10:49 PM:
 
Light engine failure would be my quick diagnosis, but I would get an experienced Barco technician in there right away. I hope you are still under warranty.
 

---

Posted by Buck Wilson (Member # 5885) on 01-11-2016, 01:02 AM:
 
It's like film, except 40x as expensive!
 

---

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 01-11-2016, 01:58 AM:
 
Run RGB test patterns to rule out light engine. Barco test pattern to rule out ICP. Try different input.
 

---

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 01-11-2016, 11:47 AM:
 

quote:

---

It's like film, except 40x as expensive!

---

It's the DCP version of an emulsion side scratch. Adds that "film-like" quality to the presentation.



Seriously, another thing to try would be re-ingest the feature, especially if the test patterns work normally.

If you have the necessary passwords (or Dallas key) try opening up the projector and reseating the cables to the light engine.

If you have pre-show equipment, try another input as Marco suggested. (If not, borrow a blu ray player to test with..)
 

---

Posted by Frank Bolkovac (Member # 6201) on 01-11-2016, 12:02 PM:
 
Like Buck Wilson's comment!!
 

---

Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 01-11-2016, 12:04 PM:
 
It probably won't be as noticeable during the matinees.
 

---

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-11-2016, 06:59 PM:
 
You're better off just charging less for admission. Concessions will still do the same no matter what the image looks like, and that's all that matters...
 

---

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 01-11-2016, 08:23 PM:
 
I also call a cold reboot for starters - both server and projector.

-Monte
 

---

Posted by Andrew Thomas (Member # 7000) on 01-15-2016, 06:59 PM:
 
So, hadn't been able to get out here until today. I played some test patterns by just pressing the test pattern button on the side of the projector. No blue line, though blue line did appear when content was playing. i tried resetting the IMB itself (GDC SX2001, I believe). So I guess we will see if I have a bunch of angry patrons

Also, does the IMB have built in test patterns to try?

*edit*

The blue line is blinking in and out in intensity.
 

---

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 01-15-2016, 08:59 PM:
 
Perhaps you're just playing the wrong movie.
 

---

Posted by Andrew Thomas (Member # 7000) on 01-16-2016, 01:11 AM:
 
So, super fun stuff, I called Barco tech support and couldn't get anybody on the line. I call GDC tech support and they tell me to install the 7.8.3 firmware (up from 7.8.1) and now I'm getting "Error opening card or device not present" errors every time I try and play content. I left a message for the GDC tech support guys, but haven't heard back. Any suggestions?
 

---

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 01-16-2016, 04:02 AM:
 
when you see the blue line, go to the communicator and select a test pattern with the Barco logo on it - those are generated on a different board.
If it disappears, then try DVI input.
 

---

Posted by Marin Zorica (Member # 1716) on 01-16-2016, 08:23 AM:
 
Yes, definitly to try out DVI on projector itself and too see what is happends. it could be IMB problem, a few weeks ago i have situatio when cinema had picture but whole green. It was like projected true green filter. After all testing, projector test pattern, as well DVI played fine, but HDMI or DCP (all what is going tru IMB) was green.....so doremi agreed to send IMB and problem solved.....unit was still under service period, or else something like EUR 5500 i think for IMB?
 

---

Posted by Bob Ezra (Member # 841) on 01-22-2016, 11:50 AM:
 
was this resolved?

if so some feedback would be helpful...
 

---

Posted by Marin Zorica (Member # 1716) on 01-22-2016, 05:46 PM:
 
Similar issue today......projectionist called me and says he got some vertical lines on screen as well some red, yellow and magenta color flashing over picture whole time. Did try to reboot projector/server few times but it did not help....after that i lead him to take out IMB and rest of cabling, he did reseat IMB and cabling and picture went back to normal....
 

---

Posted by Andrew Thomas (Member # 7000) on 01-22-2016, 10:28 PM:
 
So current situation:

I did the .x update that GDC's tech support recommended in case it was an IMB firmware issue. No change.

I then get on the phone with Barco's tech support, I describe the issue and he says (like most people) the three of four things it could be.

At this point, I'm getting the blue line on any signal (the DVI and ICP patterns, DCP content from the IMB). But I noticed something kind of strange. When I would cycle through test patterns, sometimes the next pattern would load with no blue line showing up. Switch a couple more times, and it would show up. There was no, ehem, pattern to this. It wasn't specific patterns that would cause it to go away or come back, and no particular number of times cycling before it would go away/come back.

So I mention this to the Barco tech and he says, while telling me also not to get my hopes up, that he doesn't think it's a light engine failure due to the intermittent nature of it and that it sounds more like something somewhere is loose.

He e-mailed me the service manual and suggested some areas to look at. Noting that it is out of warranty anyway, he suggests a couple of places to look. I went through and reseated a few of the connections on the signal backplane. I boot back up and no blue line for almost 90 minutes of run time. Prior to this, every single time we played content, we couldn't get through the first trailer without the blue line appearing.

Tonight, the line didn't show up at all during the first feature and so far hasn't show up during the second.

So, yeah, I have no idea what's up.
 

---

Posted by Andrew Thomas (Member # 7000) on 01-24-2016, 11:22 PM:
 
So, the blue line showed up during the second trailer and then went away the entire rest of the night. Any new ideas on why this is happening?
 

---

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 01-25-2016, 04:23 AM:
 
ICP or Light engine.

One test could be to swap, say, blue with green and see if then you have a green line on screen. That would mean it's the ICP. If the line stays blue, then it's the light engine - or the cable loom. May want to reseat the connectors on the backplane/formatters too

The above should be done by a qualified engineer - I strongly recommend you shouldn't DIY.
 

---

Posted by Andrew Thomas (Member # 7000) on 01-25-2016, 11:36 AM:
 
Reseating the formatter connectors on the backplane seemed to have been what caused it to go from happening all the time, to the extremely intermittent issue it has become.

I'm wondering if it might be a bad cable or connector on the backplane itself? Everybody I've talked to with light engine failure issues didn't seem to think it would be that after all the info I gave.

And honestly, if it is the light engine, I would just buy a whole new projector as that I can finance with no problem...so I'm not worried about futzing with it. It's just a big computer, which I've been building since I was 8 years old
 

---

Posted by Andrew Thomas (Member # 7000) on 01-31-2016, 12:27 AM:
 
Ok, newest update. Blue line came back, came up from there very first clip during the first feature all the way until about 20 minutes into the 2nd feature.

Now here is the interesting bit...it went away within about 10 minutes of me taking the side panels the control side off. I verified that the temps were all in the normal range with the cover on, but could it be a temp or airflow issue?
 

---

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 01-31-2016, 07:02 AM:
 
Intermittent contact issues are ALWAYS temperature related, no matter wether these are within spec or not. It would hit me hard if I'd had to replace a light-engine or whole projector 'just' because there is a stupid wonky contact pressure somewhere.

As far as I know, the formatter boards need to be attached with a spec'd screw torque for safe contact. That gives you an idea how delicate it is.

- Carsten
 

---

Posted by Andrew Thomas (Member # 7000) on 01-31-2016, 03:47 PM:
 
It's definitely frustrating! I think we will just move forward with the purchase of a new unit, and set aside some cash to repair this one at a later date as we plan to add a third screen anyway.
 

---

Posted by Buck Wilson (Member # 5885) on 01-31-2016, 05:23 PM:
 
Digital.
 

---

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 01-31-2016, 06:04 PM:
 
Barco should be able to offer a 'repair/exchange' light engine or to repair the faulty one - if you're happy not to use the projector for a while.
 

---

Posted by Andrew Thomas (Member # 7000) on 02-04-2016, 02:47 PM:
 
So after another weekend of it randomly appearing or not (two nights nothing, one night 60% of the time) we had a Barco technician come out from a recommended servicer of Barco themselves. Not shockingly, some issue in the light engine. I spoke to a guy at Barco and they said they can likely repair it, but that involves sending it to Belgium and waiting a minimum of 8 and up to 16 weeks to get it back.

In the short term, there doesn't seem to be any new light engines for this model in stock, only refurbs. I can't with any legitimate business sense pay $20,000 for a refurbished light engine that carries a 90 day warranty. I've yet to hear what a new light engine gets as far as warranty, but I assume at least 1 year?

But as we are planning to build a third screen, I think our best option right now is to buy a new projector and send off the light engine for repair. If it turns out the repair cost is too high, then we can wait and buy a brand new light engine when we need the projector up and running for the third screen.

Definitely not what you hope to have to do 60 days after buying the place!
 

---

Posted by Jason McMillan (Member # 5542) on 02-04-2016, 04:54 PM:
 
Andrew,

Do you mind if I ask which drive in you purchased? Was it the Showboat, by chance?
 

---

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 02-05-2016, 01:47 PM:
 
they won't charge you 20.000 for a refurbished light engine - if you return the old one.
 

---

Posted by Andrew Thomas (Member # 7000) on 02-06-2016, 11:58 PM:
 

quote: Jason McMillan

---

Andrew,

Do you mind if I ask which drive in you purchased? Was it the Showboat, by chance?

---

That is the one

quote: Marco Giustini

---

they won't charge you 20.000 for a refurbished light engine - if you return the old one.

---

quote: Carsten Kurz

---

Did they comment on what actually caused these pixel to become stuck? Dirt? Vibrations? Spikes, Electromagnetical fields?

---

To be frank, while the tech was very pleasant...he really didn't do any investigation of the cause of the problem. Just confirmed that it is something in the light engine that is the issue. I wasn't very impressed with the company, but that is who Barco recommended.
 

---

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 02-07-2016, 03:00 PM:
 
Sorry Andrew, I meant Mark to answer this for the case he mentioned just above.

In your case, the repair could come out a lot cheaper if you are lucky, so I would definitely go for it.

- Carsten
 

---

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 02-07-2016, 03:25 PM:
 
I still insist that Barco DO offer a repair exchange option. What you have been quoting is the repair only option - which will probably be cheaper but, as you noticed, will leave you off screen for a while.

That's why I suggested to ask someone else.
 

---

Posted by Andrew Thomas (Member # 7000) on 02-07-2016, 03:53 PM:
 
Thanks for the tip! I'll look into it more on Monday.
 

---

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-07-2016, 11:08 PM:
 
Carsten,

I suspect that it was excessive shock. The wood platform that was demolished by the theater manager (without permission) was attached at one side to a tall wooden pedestal the projector pedestal sits on top of. This whole column affair was brought about by an inept contractor who didn't know what he was doing back when these screens were added on. Seems he forgot the projector had to be well above the top row of stadium seating! The platform was not a structural support type of thing but it was attached to the column the projector was atop of. Constant banging to loosen the 2x6 joist's and braces had to be what caused this because it was all fine a couple weeks before whenI was there before that demolition commenced. It affected the green and red DMD's and it caused a total of 29 pixels to become stuck (that's how many I could count)

Normally if you want to buy a light engine for an NC-2000 it's 28k new, same price as the projector minus lens. However, they can be bought from NEC dealers overseas for in the $12,500.00 range, so NEC here in America is just gouging the customer. I was lucky to be able to get a brand new light engine from MIT out of a projector that had slight shipping damage (bent lamphouse area) for 12k with a one year warranty. Out of over 300 other NEC's I only have one with a random stuck blue pixel. That has been stuck for over a year now and hasn't gotten any worse so the customer is just going to leave it. NEC would repair that prism for about 5 to 8 grand. The one with two bad DMD's would be about double for repair which is why we grabbed the one from the damaged projector while we had the chance.

I now hold the bad prism in my safe in case it's needed for parts or if another prism fails for this customer then this one can be sent for repair. Or if I just happened to need formatter boards or other parts off of it then I have those.

Mark
 

---

Posted by Andrew Thomas (Member # 7000) on 03-14-2016, 10:38 PM:
 
One more update. I have been running the A/C in the booth much cooler than usual, but not just for temp but also to dehumidify. Since doing this, the blue line has not appeared. One of my managers forgot to set the thermostat down on Friday and we had blue line that night for the first time in a month.

Also interesting, the line moved position. Looked to be identical in width (around 100 pixels), but was appearing on the left third of the screen instead of nearly dead center.

A slightly higher A/C bill is worth delaying the major cost of repair/replacement!
 

---

Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 03-16-2016, 02:12 PM:
 
I've had this issue before with my Barco DP-2K23B with a GDC SX2000AR server and IMB. I'd almost bet it's 100% temperature related. Mine always has been.

Our concessions / projection building at the drive-in is centrally heated and cooled with an electric heat pump. When the HVAC system was designed and installed back in 2003, the HVAC engineer compensated for the exhaust air removal from the projection rooms by putting in larger duct work in the booths as opposed to the rest of the building. We have 8 inch ducts everywhere in the building except the projection booths which have 14 inch ducts.

In the summer months, it can be a comfortable 73 degrees in the rest of the building, but the projection booths hover around 59-62 degrees. In the fall when we turn the heat on, it's still 73 degrees up front, but the projection booths hover around 80-85 degrees.

Usually on the first weekend when we have the heat on is when we experience any projection issues, and it's always one vertical line running (just left of center) down the screen.

Our technician explained that the extreme swing in temperatures of the booth physically heat and cool the chasis of the projector to the point where the boards in the electronic card cage on the operator side of the projector expand and contract enough to cause them to "creep" out of their back plane connectors just enough that it causes weird things to show up on screen.

Powering the entire projector and server rack down, pulling the operator side panel off the projector and physically un-screwing and re-seating EACH board in the cage so far has corrected the problem each and every time.

We're now on our 3rd season with digital projection, and the first two years we've had them, I usually have to do a board re-seat about the first week in November. I've only had to do it once on each projector each season.

I installed throttling dampers in the projection room ducts over the winter, so hopefully that will get rid of the issue.
 

---

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-16-2016, 06:09 PM:
 
I hear and read about a lot of board re-seating having to be done in Barco's. I have never had to do it in any projector here in the Mountain States, Barco, Christie or NEC. This must be a humidity related thing... but I wonder if treating the contacts with some Caig Pro Gold would help this situation at all. Have any of you tried this?

Mark
 

---

Posted by Andrew Thomas (Member # 7000) on 07-25-2016, 10:36 PM:
 
A quick update. After we started running the booth cooler and running the dehumidifier, the blue line went away except for a few minutes a couple of random nights. Late last week, it started happening again. I figured it was due to the near 100 degree weather and high humidity and our AC system not being able to keep up.

We went ahead and cancelled our shows on that screen for the week and have been trying to find a used 32B or similar to replace it so we could send off the light engine for repair.

Since we weren't running any content, I decided to test out a few things. I ran a movie start to finish and got the blue line nearly immediately and it stayed the whole run time. Played it through a second time after a 40 minute break, exact same thing.

I then started tinkering. In order, I did the following.

1. I removed the three cables from the signal back plane to the blue DMD. No more line, so obviously the issue was somewhere in the blue DMD signal path.

2. I moved the green DMD cables into the blue sockets on the signal back plane to try and rule out the problem as coming from the signal path. The line did not appear, even as a different color. So probably not back plane.

3. I plugged the blue DMD cables into the green socket to see if the line came back...and it didn't at all.

4. I plugged the green and blue DMD cables back into their correct sockets and ran test patterns and have now played back half of the feature and no lines at all.

So at this point, I'm thinking either the socket on the backplane or the connected on one of the blue DMD connections is getting loose.

Either way, I'm happy that it seems to be working and even more disappointed in the service company that didn't bother to get in and do what I did. It literally took me 15 minutes and most of that was turning the projector off and on!
 

---

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 07-25-2016, 11:28 PM:
 
I wouldn't be getting that company out again then.
 

---

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 07-26-2016, 02:19 AM:
 
Reseating cables is always the first thing to do.
However I reckon that the formatters are getting power from the cables you unplugged so when you ran content with blue disconnected the whole blue board was not powered - unlikely that you could see a blue line on screen.

If that happened again, since you seem confident in what you're doing, I'd open the projector and gently tap on cables, boards and connectors with a plastic tool to try and identify the cause IDF the issue
 

---

Posted by Andrew Thomas (Member # 7000) on 07-26-2016, 04:14 AM:
 
When I tried putting the various covers back on, the line appeared again. Took everything back off, still line. Reseated the blue cables again, line gone.

I guess I'll see what the prices are on the backplane and cables and ordered replacements. Pretty much 100% sure the issue is in that connection point.
 

---

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 07-26-2016, 05:37 AM:
 
The cables are not available separately...they are considered part of the light engine, not a service part (despite having a part number right on them). I'd complain loudly to make it more of an issue. The signal backplane is not a very pricey item, as I recall. Just remember that the personality module is on it and it must be transferred between the old and new.

If it is connectivity, then the signal backplane is just one part of the story and as you have surmised, the cables and the satellite boards are also in there but you can't change them individually.
 

---

Posted by Andrew Thomas (Member # 7000) on 07-26-2016, 11:09 AM:
 
.
 

---

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 07-26-2016, 01:12 PM:
 
I wouldn't be so sure. It could be anything and remember you're turning it off and on between tests so heat stress is also involved.

Did you try tapping on the connector when it's still working?

Steve: O_O quite an expensive set of cables...
 

---

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 07-26-2016, 01:15 PM:
 
Yep...you can get Christie and NEC cables in sets but they don't use the Barco connectors, natch. I think it is crazy that individual components are not available like that. It is like having a bad spark plug cable and being told...well you need to change your entire engine. Crazy, in my opinion.
 

---

Posted by Andrew Thomas (Member # 7000) on 07-26-2016, 02:39 PM:
 
Turning it off and on does nothing. Turning it off and then reseating the blue cables makes it go away every time. I guess it could be total coincidence
 

---