Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Barco DP2K-6E and ICMP

This is topic Barco DP2K-6E and ICMP in forum Digital Cinema Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 01-13-2016, 09:06 AM:

We got our DP2K-6E these days. Nice little machine, light and quiet. Came with Barcos now default Alchemy server (ICMP), the same thing that powers Barcos big laser boys (and even the laser IMAX machines, probably in a modified version, I reckon).
We own a Sony 515 as well, and, I was clearly expecting the contrast/black level to be VERY different between the two, so I am not whining about that.

What I didn't expect is that, even with these mediocre 0.69" DLP black levels, Barco decided to give this machine a mechanical dowser NOT!

It has a dowser key/function - but it is essentially a blanking function. The black level fully stays on screen. I think they do not even dim the lamps when activated as some projectors do.

Now, given the extremely competitive price and regarding our specific usage profile, I can live with that, but I would definitely hate this if we'd operate this unit on an unmasked screen in daily use, I would clearly install an external shutter unit and operate it from a GPO/macro.

Now, I talked to someone else on this topic, and he said that the Barco 10Sx and 8Sx have no 'real' dowsers as well. Can someone confirm? How about that on the Christie Solaria One/CP2208?

Regarding the ICMP - not fully feature ready, but a very nice and beefy IMS. Give the software another year to finish/mature, and it will blow away the competition.

The only thing I am not so fond about is the user interface design of the web control interface. It seems they took over the GUI design library from good old XDC, and most icons/buttons look as if they come from some pre-historic BORG design agency. But, well...
Nice contrast to the old-fashioned Communicator setup application WIN3.1 design.
Which I am actually using in a Mac version (took me long time to find out a Mac version of Communicator is actually available and supported, as no one ever mentioned it on this forum).

We will use this unit for mobile cinema, and what we preferred was to have a very mobile machine with an internal server, so that we would save additional transport resources, set-up time, cabling, etc..
Plus, this machine is so quiet, it can easily sit behind an audience without a hush-box. I also like the combination of the typical Barco keypad access to basic projector functions (macros, on-the-fly lens adjustment) and tablet/web based operation for mobile use.

We were signed on an NC900C before, but when the 6E was announced, we changed our minds, because of increased light output (2*465W UHP), and the better IMS available for the Barco.

The NC900C is already a comparably quiet unit, but the Barco takes away another 6dB per spec, and that's audible. Plus, the IMS/ICMP doesn't add any noise, as an external server would. The NC900C, though, has a real dowser... ;-)
I would love to have a little bit more visual feedback on the Barco 6E during the boot-up or shutdown cycles as the NEC display offers it.

- Carsten

Posted by Marin Zorica (Member # 1716) on 01-13-2016, 09:43 AM:

That dowser thing is i think on 10 and 8 also, worked with em, but newer did care about it to be honest. As for comander software, it's okay, but when i did last setups costumer, as well i prefered web GUI over commander, so we did install both commander and shorcut to web GUI, but as i said everbody prefered web.....it kinda make's more sence.

Also, when i got this, there were no macros on alchemy, i did import some "defaults" from barco site, but anyway i need to set up everything manualy there.

As for shutter, well you coudl add some, and use GPO for controlling it.....but, where to put it?? I don't think inside machine, to don't lsoe warranty.

After all, the thing which relly piss me off is lack of external supply for electronic like on B and C series, so either way you need to have 3kw UPS for powering whole projector including xenon lamp, or not UPS at all, because both lamp power supply and IMCP power supply are on same line.....there is quick trick to separate this without problem internal, but i won't do it because of, again warranty reasons.

At end, it's running very good, no alchemy problem here so far or other issues.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 01-13-2016, 09:58 AM:

Don't know for the 8Sx/10Sx, but the 6E does have the option for UPS operation back, there are two IEC mains sockets, and you have to change their internal cabling to split operation as on other Barcos.

Of course, with a mere 1kW for full operation, you could just use a 'slightly' beefier UPS to power this small machine completely from it.

As for the dowser, I would use an external dowser/shutter unit, of course.

This 6E seems to be a very early unit, it came with some macros, but not all items matching the specific unit. Also, some of the web interface visuals still refer to the 10Sx. But I'm not complaining, we expected some of these early version issues, we needed to get the machine NOW.

- Carsten

Posted by Magnus Eriksson (Member # 6085) on 01-13-2016, 11:57 AM:

No dowser on 8s/10s, just a greyish blanking [Frown]

And almost every macro execution deblanks the image even if the dowser is "closed". Very annoying.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 01-13-2016, 12:35 PM:

I'm still not very familiar with the 6E but something I cannot accept on the 900 is the missing light 'feedback'. There should be a CLO on the Barco instead - Carsten can you confirm?

I appreciate that with UHP colours tend to change when power are changed but I'd rather live with a slightly off colour calibration than finding the brightness down to nothing every 12 months when the service engineer shows up.

Also hopefully the lens on the 6E is going to be more accurate than the 900's.

Posted by Pietro Clarici (Member # 4937) on 01-13-2016, 04:12 PM:

Thanks Carsten, very useful info.

I'm looking for a mobile unit as well, I have a bunch of NEC projectors but even their dealer is actively trying to deter me from getting a 900C due to the Doremi IMS and inaccurate lens positioning.

Looks like the 6E could fit the bill: in the real world, would you say it's bright enough for a 7.3m wide screen? I fear my use case would almost require an airtight inflatable screen, and sizing options for those are limited.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 01-13-2016, 04:47 PM:

Marco - yes, the 6E does have CLO - wether it's working properly or 'content spilled' as in the 8Sx/10Sx, I don't know yet.

BTW - you can choose to operate the 6E with one or two lamps, and control lamp current. It's a slider/value from 0-255, I measured it to control 100%->around 75% light. So that is similar to the NC900C.

What I haven't come across previously is it's 'spatial light correction' feature. It seems this is also coupled with light-engine (serial) specific SCC files. That is, every light-engine needs to have it's specific/individual SCC file loaded - initially, that seems to be produced by Barco manufacturing/testing. I think this also exists in the 8Sx/10Sx, as Pete Naples pointed out in another post.
You can also see that in recent versions of Communicator.

Wondering wether this is a general series II ICP feature now, or wether it is only supported by Barcos own ICP implementation in their ICMP?

@Pietro - the 6E can easily cope with a 7.3m screen. Don't know how quickly it's lamps fades. We actually do operate a Sony 515 on a 7.4m flat/9,20m scope screen, running two 450W lamps, and that is well above smpte brightness spec with new lamps. It's a 1.4 gain screen, though.

I am not completely through with measuring, but from what I have seen so far, the 6E outputs 30-40% more light than the NC900C. Note that NEC NEVER gave an actual lumen/brightness number for the NC900C. You can boost it up, however, by taking out the notch filter, losing strict DCI colors.

As long as we were booked for the NEC, I was actually planning on getting a USL CMS-2200 for it to avoid the IMS1000. Sorry to USL now, I would have liked to honor their product quality and customer commitment by buying their IMS. Check it out!

- Carsten

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-13-2016, 04:53 PM:

The new "do it yourself" LUT-SCC feature in Communicator is supposed to be detailed in the next version of the Communicator manual, (v14). The idea is that you measure the 13 points on the screen and you can create your own. Sounds like it could be a nifty feature. I have a 4K system that predates Barco supplied LUT-SCC (light engine isn't on their list).

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 01-13-2016, 05:09 PM:

Ah, got it! And that's what the new 13/26 point test patterns are for I found on this unit!

BTW - how do I load my own test patterns into this unit - as it lacks a TI OEM ICP, TIs ICP program won't work?

- Carsten

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 01-13-2016, 05:44 PM:

Carsten

installation - advanced - file manager.

SCC files are usually only for 4K light engines as the 4K chips don't feature a great light uniformity. It makes sense to have one for S2K chips as they are in fact 1/4 of a 4K chip.
Steve, did you try asking Barco? I had a similar issue but they were able to provide the file.

Did now know you can now - or soon - create your own file. Obviously this is only going to work on a 1.0 matte white screen but it's a nice feature.

I did try the CLO on a S machine, it was indeed slightly dependent on content even though not much.

As long as there is a CLO I'm happy. I can't accept a machine without some kind of brightness automation.

Thanks for your insights!

Posted by Marin Zorica (Member # 1716) on 01-15-2016, 04:54 AM:

So strange, 10Sx doesn't have separate IEC for UPS (powering electronics) and 6 have...... [Big Grin]

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 01-15-2016, 05:41 AM:

I think the lack of a UPS capability on the 8/10S was a design mistake they corrected on the 6s. I complained about it, and wasn't alone.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-15-2016, 06:47 AM:

I'm surprised they don't come out with a retrofit kit for the 8/10 for UPS...it isn't a tricky mod. Probably UL type considerations though.

Posted by Marin Zorica (Member # 1716) on 01-15-2016, 05:12 PM:

Last time i did 10 i check wiring, there are wiring going to LPS and to electronic PS from main mains supply.....so just to add separate IEC inlet or connector box inside....

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-16-2016, 03:25 PM:

Exactly!

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 01-16-2016, 08:24 PM:

I believe Barco did have an engineer come up with instructions on how to separate out the 8/10s LPS power feed for using a UPS on the electronics, but then decided not to release it because it would make all their electrical certifications invalid. They can't say much of you do it yourself (and thus take on the liability)... but they won't supply instructions and thus become liable if something goes way wrong.

Posted by Marin Zorica (Member # 1716) on 01-17-2016, 12:05 AM:

As my friend pointed out, they just wanna boost sell of higher power UPS [Smile]

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-17-2016, 01:36 PM:

The only way Barco could do it would be with an official "kit" and I just don't see that happening.

Posted by Tom Bert (Member # 5719) on 03-18-2016, 09:47 AM:

On the new SCC feature: this is indeed the equivalent of "electronic uniformity calibration"; both for color and whitepoint. SCC stands for Spatial Color Calibration.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-18-2016, 11:11 AM:

I haven't tried it under 5.1.5 yet though I see in the RN that it is supposed to be fixed. In prior communicators, the LUT-SCC feature was broken as far as creating one's own.

Posted by Tom Bert (Member # 5719) on 03-18-2016, 02:35 PM:

There was indeed a bug on 4K projectors. This was resolved in 5.1.5