Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Back ordered NEC NP9LP02 Lamps

This is topic Back ordered NEC NP9LP02 Lamps in forum Digital Cinema Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Paul Looker (Member # 5420) on 03-25-2016, 07:08 PM:

Is anyone else in the same boat as me? I've had five lamps fail within the last 30 days. Strong was able to get me one in early March. Right now two of my four auditoriums are running in single lamp mode and when I bypassed strong and talked directly with NEC the one I've been waiting on since 3/8 didn't even make the cut in the orders they shipped out with what just came in to their warehouse on 3/24. M.I.T hasn't even been returning my emails. I'm guessing because they are in the same situation. And NEC told me they typically get a shipment once a month. What am I supposed to do here?

Posted by David J Hilsgen (Member # 2614) on 03-25-2016, 08:18 PM:

Check Brightstar in mpls,mn P #952 926 2009 they might have some on hand ,also your projector software might be out of date, i had this problem at the Brickhouse cinema in foley that i service, he has 3, the old software don't let the bulb cool enough.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-25-2016, 10:53 PM:

Paul,
You are likely running original style lamps which are notoriously unreliable. Ushio made some changes to that lamp about 6 months ago which drastically improved its reliability. Those changes include ballast firmware changes. So if you have not updated the firmware in your projectors you should do it ASAP. I have had a few customers that had zero problems with the first version lamp, but only a few.

Also note, NEC states a TWO YEAR shelf life on those lamps to be able to be covered under warranty. So do not keep more lamps around then you can consume in a two year period. If lamps older then two years old fail they will not be replaced at N/C. Strong takes FOR EVER to do lamp credits by the way, some lamps took them a year and a half to credit back to my customers. Most of my customers stopped dealing with Strong completely. Try to stick with MIT. You will receive much better service... Some of the larger cinema dealers are also direct NEC parts distributors. So there are still other options other than Strong.

Mark

Posted by Paul Looker (Member # 5420) on 03-25-2016, 11:05 PM:

Can anyone tell me how to get this firmware update and install it?

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-26-2016, 09:50 AM:

Mark mislead a bit there. There is no firmware update for the ballast. There is a later version of the ballast that uses a a different firmware. Even current software 4.218 there are TWO valid ballast firmwares 0204 for the original ballasts and 0207 for the later one. If you have a ballast fail...I strongly suggest changing both since once you "dig" your way into it, you've ever removed one to get to the one you need or you are just one step away so why go though the "fun" again?

Now, depending on the projector software, you should definitely update to 4.217 or possibly 4.218 (they didn't do a release not for 4.218 yet so I don't know what it brings...probably not much because not much changes...possibly just new lamp models for xenon projectors).

One of the changes in the later projector firmware involves how the lamp turns off. Originally, it just turns off. They have found that it is more of a thermal shock to the lamp to do it that way. So now, it 2-steps it. When the lamp(s) are told to turn off, they first drop power down to 75% or so and then off so slow down the cooling process.

But back on the lamps. The original lamps are notorious for failing.

If you are having high failure rates...try pulling logs and pull them on the order of 2-years (or less if you have had the projector for less). Home in on the temperature section. And in particular, look at the inlet temperature. It is easiest to copy that section out of the log and put it into a speadsheet (comma delimited) and look at the inlet temps over time. If you find that the temp is getting up over 30C a lot, you are more bound to have lamp problems. If you are over 35C, you'll be denied warranty for "cooking the lamps."

Keys to keeping that temp down (and longer lamp life) is to
1) Keep your filters clean (changed).

2) NEVER have anything behind the projector. Anything behind the projector will act as an air plenum to route the exhaust air back into the projector. It isn't exactly the best design there that outlet and inlet are right next to each other.

3) Keep your booth temperatures down. It can only cool with the ambient temperature of the room. If it is hot, so are the lamps.

And Mark is absolutely correct about the 2-year thing...warranty is only for 2-years, regardless of hours. The serial number of the lamp will indicate the month/year the lamp was made and that will be their first point of knowing how old the lamp is. Unfortunately, this starts the clock ticking for everyone though purchase date from the distributor (Strong or MIT) should be when the time starts. This does keep people from stocking up. With a 3000 hour life, it can take quite a bit of time...more than 2-years if it is a special venue or seasonal.

Posted by Kerry Fleming (Member # 1657) on 03-26-2016, 01:13 PM:

Very interesting discussion here.
I am not experiencing a shortage of readily available lamps.
But, lamp failures under warranty hours are frequent.
Last six lamps I had fail exploded on start up. And usually at daily opening. Majority of failed lamps were 600 to 1,000 hours.
Inlet temperature is 28C. Ballast Firmware is 0207.
Projector software doesn't jive with versions mentioned.
I believe the lamp cooling time is minimum of 3 minutes.
These NEC's have been in operation since April 2015.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-26-2016, 02:24 PM:

Steve is correct on the firmware, it was how the fans behave that has been changed. Note that Sony uses this identical lamp in their small 4K cinema projector and they have had exactly the same issues that NEC has had.

I have some sites that have gone through their original lamps either by warranty hours or by failure and replaced them with the second version lamp and have had no issue at all. ONly two sites continue to have issues and one site they do not heat the booth very much in winter... THAT is the most troublesome site out of about 30 some NC-900. And I have told them to heat the booth a bit more an hour or two before opening and before lighting the lamps...

Since the change of lamps the 900 has been relatively trouble free.

Mark

Posted by Kerry Fleming (Member # 1657) on 03-26-2016, 03:38 PM:

Mark,
I am using the new improved lamp design in my 900's.
Haven't really noticed that much difference.
What did help was lowering the lamp power setting to 85%.
I've actually had (3) lamps make it out of warranty.
Their light source needs improvement!

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-26-2016, 06:00 PM:

How wide are your screens and are they matte or gain?

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-27-2016, 01:32 AM:

BTW...this is what I mean by pulling the logs and loading them into a spread sheet and looking at the inlet. Below is one that had lamp failures and you can see the temps rise over time and eventually crest the 35C mark.

Note. It is like damaging a tree. Once the damage is done...that lamp or lamps will forever be scared by running hot. The key is to never let it get to that point by keeping the filters clean, room temps proper and never allow the outlet feed the inlet.

Sites that have never had the temp climb over 30C like that have yet to have a lamp problem.

Posted by Kerry Fleming (Member # 1657) on 03-27-2016, 09:49 AM:

Screens range from 14'-25".
NEC 900's are all on Matte screens.
Plenty of light. Pictures look good!

There is an air inlet temperature log in the DCC software.
It gives you a good indication of temperature range.

Majority of people down this way are having problems with them.
Warranty return is slow but, it has been a money saver.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-27-2016, 10:15 AM:

Well, you are having to push them no doubt with the matte white surfaces. NEC projectors light output are spec's with 1.8 gain screens. I don't reccomend 1.8 but 1.4 is a good compromise. I do have one 900 on a 29' curved 1.8 gain screen and it just barely meets specs. Tried to talk the customer into masking the screen down a bit but that was a no go.

Steve, you didn't see the temperature rise just looking at the logs? It's pretty obvious looking at logs even without using a spread sheet... On the other hand booths that are too cold also see lots of lamp failures.

Mark

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-27-2016, 01:28 PM:

What laying it out in a spreadsheet like this also lets you see is that this site should, based on their particular booth conditions, change their filters every 6 months, regardless of lamp hours.