Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Could someone help me with why GDC TMS might have become unbearably slow?

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Posted by Donnacha Kenny (Member # 6371) on 04-16-2016, 12:31 PM:

GDC TMS usually runs fine on our dedicated computer; it could sometimes get sluggish, but even then, reopening the program and/or power cycling would quicken things up again. It would scarcely take a minute to scan the contents of networked projectors (all of which have SX-3000 IMBs) and the local storage, and would not have an issue connecting, managing cpls or anything else.

However, in the past week, it has become utterly unusable. If I'm lucky, selecting anything takes several seconds to be recognized, often with the screen fading to white and becoming unresponsive for several seconds. Sometimes it works, sometimes the program just says (not responding) and stays that way until a forced quit. It's not unusual to right-click on something, wait twenty seconds, see the *shadow* of the right-click submenu, then wait longer, then get the submenu, wait longer, and then be able to select anything off the submenu. And if it recognizes that I've clicked on it? Wait some more. Provided it doesn't fade to white almost instantly.

I spoke to a GDC technician who suggested I upgrade the TMS 3.4 I was using to a later version, TMS 4. TMS 4 installed fine, but would crash as soon as I tried to open it. I uninstalled it and installed the latest version of 3.4 instead, but this did not help and everything was still slow and unresponsive. I was then told to uninstall Postgres and the TMS version I was using so I scould upgrade both, as Postgres would have to be updated too. After installation, Postgres would not start, and I called GDC. From 9pm on Thursday night to 5am Friday morning, two technicians logged in remotely to get Postgres to run and thus get TMS working. The second technician installed TMS 4 instead of the latest version of TMS 3.4. After wiping out all the stored connections and rebuilding the network of projectors, everything should be working fine, but it's still completely slow and unusable.

One might assume it's a lack of memory or dulled performance, but only TMS is being slow. While TMS is running, memory usage is never above 50%, disc activity rarely breaks 10%, and CPU peaks around 6%. Current OS is Windows 10 Pro (I'm told there is no support for TMS with 10, but it wasn't giving me this much grief before this week, and even if it would help I can no longer downgrade to Windows 7), 64-bit, memory is 4GB RAM, Processor is 3.4GHz Intel Core i7-3770 CPU. If that's relevant, please let me know, but remember, no other program is causing me problems, even memory hogs like Google Chrome. Closing out of nonessential programs does nothing to help, nor does restarting or power-cycling. Even on the rare occasions I open Chrome (like I have open now) while TMS is running, Chrome's performance is unhindered, so it's doubtful the resources are the issue.

I tried ingesting trailers off a CRU drive earlier. It took half an hour to populate the contents to show me what I could ingest, and then when I went to uncheck all, it gave me "not responding".

TMS takes a good half hour at least to boot up, scanning projector drives and local TMS storage and taking forever. It used to take no more than a minute to scan the eight projectors and the local storage. If I use VNC address book I'm able to communicate with the projectors instantly, so it's not an issue with the network.

I ingested keys this morning and the keys were not sent to the projectors, even though the program said they were ingested. Trying to update via TMS gave me (not responding). I had to ingest locally.

The GDC techs have been very eager to help, but their plan always seems to be uninstall and reinstall, so I'm not sure even they can understand what's the story.

This is incredibly frustrating, as you can imagine, and I can't run a business like this. Please advise, as I'm kind of at my wit's end. Thank you.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-16-2016, 02:14 PM:

What version of TMS are you running? There were a few versions last year that WERE sluggish and tended to hang a bit. The current version is 4.1.6010.01271711. You should update to that version if you are not already at it. It seems to be a relatively stable version of TMS. Also, be sure your SX-3000's are also updated to at least Build 383, although the current Build is 389. Build 383 corrected a major problem when ingesting using the newest version of the small eSATA (USB 3) CRU bays. The SX-3000 would not see the CRU bay at all. 383 fixes that.

Also, be sure your OS drive isn't failing, that its at least a 7200 RPM drive or better and that you have adequate ram and at least a Quad Core Intel of some sort running around 3.0 ghz. Eight gig is the minimum RAM I recommend, 16 is better. The TMS app is very CPU intensive, so if you are transferring content and trying to do other work a dual core may bog down on you. I generally use Dell servers that have dual quad core and just run Windows 7 64 bit. You would be surprised how much slack the second CPU picks up.

Mark

Posted by Donnacha Kenny (Member # 6371) on 04-16-2016, 04:13 PM:

TMS is 4.17023. I had been using 3.43631 before the techs uninstalled it and installed TMS 4. Bear in mind, TMS 3.4 was working well, until it wasn't, so it's not a question of downgrading to 3.4. I don't really care what version of TMS we use (4's a bit stupid with its layout, but nothing's perfect) as long as it works.

I'm using a Dell Vostro 470 with Intel Core i7-3770 CPU, 3.4 GHz, so that's quad-core. Installed RAM is 4 GB, but TMS never had an issue with running 3.4 with that much RAM and I rarely even use 50% of the available RAM even with several things running. Hard drive is a 500GB 7200RPM Seagate and I'm only using about a quarter of the space. Antivirus software is up-to-date and working. Remember, it's only TMS that's underperforming - everything else is working fine. DCP-o-matic works like lightning on the odd occassion I need it.

SX-3000s are all up-to-date too. No discernible conflicts on my end between the IMBs and TMS before this week.

The GDC techs are going to have another look on Sunday, which is nice, though it doesn't help me too much (not like we're do anything on the weekend at the cinema or anything).

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 04-16-2016, 09:04 PM:

Me thinks your problem is with Win10. That sucker will be updating you in the background so it surprises me not one bit that it worked one day and not the next.

What is it with everyone updating to Win10 on perfectly running Win7 machines? Just what are people hoping to gain by it?

My GDC TMS servers are all Win7 or Server 2008 machines and updates are turned OFF. The servers only need to run the one program (and its support programs)...there is no need for updates that can change the performance. The server should be firewalled off from the evil internet.

I bet if you did a clean Win7Pro install, your problems would VANISH

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 04-16-2016, 10:16 PM:

I'm firmly with Steve here. Just because something has a higher number in no way means it is better. On the contrary, far too often software "upgrades" (both on operating systems AND equipment) cause more problems than they solve.

Have your technician wipe the machine completely. Run a clean Windows 7 install disc. Turn automatic updates off. Run the check for automatic updates manually and ONLY permit updates which are needed. Install your GDC TMS software, verify it runs nice and smooth and barring some truly critical security update in Windows 7...stay right there and stop updating.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 04-17-2016, 05:21 AM:

The fact that you can communicate with VNC to your other machines doesn't mean there is no problem with the network. The symptoms you're describing pretty much "feel" like a network problem. Try to ping other machines on the network and see if it remains stable. You can start a continuous ping from the CMD/DOS console using "ping -t <ip address>". That's still no guarantee for a good working network, but it's at least an indication. On your local network, everything should be about a milisecond away. Some sporadic higher pings are usually not a big deal, but lots of pings above 10ms or more or even packet loss is a good indicator of trouble.

I'm not a big fan of Windows 10 either, but you indicated it worked with Windows 10 before. Obviously, it could be one of the last system updates giving you problems.

Another thing you could try is to temporarily turn off virus scanners. Those buggers are known to cause problems now and then.

There's tons of stuff that could be wrong otherwise, but this at least is a start.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 04-17-2016, 08:11 AM:

Yup. WIN10 with a 4GB system running a TMS, that is certainly not a good idea.

Why are people so eager to run mission critical software on premature operating systems? Get a second machine for playing with WIN10.

- Carsten

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 04-17-2016, 09:53 AM:

quote: Carsten Kurz
Why are people so eager to run mission critical software on premature operating systems?

Because of the crazy assumption "newer and updated is better".

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-17-2016, 10:37 AM:

That's funny, I logged into the GDC ftp site before I posted the version above which they show there to be the current one. I did not see version 4.17023 there. I wonder if your techs got a hold of a beta versions of TMS that is buggy? I have had zero issues with TMS systems and Windows 10 trying to download itself. There is a small app you can install so Windows 10 does not automatically install. So you may want to do that. Also get 4 more gigs of ram at least! You are trying to flush a 10" pipe through a 4" pipe the way it is set up now. You may also want to consider consulting another tech who is more familiar with networking and TMS systems in general. If your guys were at all good you would have had 8 or more gigs of ram in there from day one. This sounds like a low bidder system to me.

I have close to 50 of these TMS systems out there that I built but all are based on refurbished Dell Servers. Either 2950-3 or 2900-3's. They have almost a zero problem level except the the several sluggish past versions of TMS a couple power supply and drIve failures.

As far as your network goes, be sure your switches are good and that you have had your cabling bandwidth verified (at least). I had one site with nice managed SMC switches and ports on the switches started failing. We had to replace all the switches at this site before the TMS system would behave and consistently work.

BTW: GDC has stated that TMS will run fine under W-10, however they as of yet will not provide support for systems running under W-10. That will likely begin later this year.

Mark

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-17-2016, 01:07 PM:

And for those that do not want Windows 10 hijacking their PC's just install "GWX Control Panel". Then you can control how, if and when Windows 10 makes its way into your computer.

Mark

Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 04-17-2016, 08:07 PM:

So the technicians at G.D.C. had told me not to run the T.M.S. program on a Windows 10 machine. So we aren't. No problems.

I am guessing that the problem that you are having could be traced to an update that was released recently.

I run Windows 10 on a lot of other machines - just not the machines running our T.M.S. programs...

By the way - you can downgrade a Windows 10 machine to Windows 7. I've done it a few times..

If it were me - I'd wipe the hard drive and start from scratch using a Windows 7 Pro disc...But since I install Windows OS on machines on a weekly basis, it's not that big a deal to me.

You can also turn off the automatic updating in Windows 10 BTW.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-18-2016, 10:34 AM:

I was told GDC will support Wondows 10 starting later this year. They gonna have to because if you want a legal coa'd OS going in on a new TMS you won't be able to buy legal W-7 disks pretty darn soon as they will be all gone. If you are lucky and have a administrator load license then great keep using it as long as later TMS apps don't need something in Windows 10.

Yes, you can roll back a W-10 that has upgraded itself but there is a time limit on doing so, after which it's stuck at Windows 10.

You can shut off Windows Upgrade in Component services or even go in the registry but why on earth would you? It's still a new OS and it's going to have all the security flaws the rest of the MS products do. It should get updated! I have noted that turning off and or setting Windows Updater in Component services works until you reboot the PC again. Then irregardless it starts up again unless it is purposely turned off again.

I created an instal disk for W-7 Pro that already has all the updates in it using Windows Updater. So no updates to do after doing a load now...

IDK what all the fuss about Windows 10 is anyway. It's actually been good on the machines I have used it on. My objective was wo keep TMS's from automatically upgrading. And GWX control panel does that fine, when GDC starts supporting W-10 then I have no issues with them upgrading.

Mark

Posted by Donnacha Kenny (Member # 6371) on 04-18-2016, 10:59 AM:

Thanks all.

The Win 10 update was a corporate decision. Too much of our other software throughout the building had been hampered by lack of support for older versions or sudden failure because they had *not* updated OS software, so the bosses said "make 'em all Windows 10".

Looks like I'll have to find a way to get Windows 7 back on the machine then.

Dennis, I've downgraded before (and then been told to upgrade again), but it only lets you do it for free within a month of updating to Win10. To downgrade I'll need a product key, and the ones on my machines don't work because Windows came pre-installed on them, so Microsoft says they're ineligible for a free downgrade.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 04-18-2016, 12:02 PM:

Windows 10 is known to have driver issues and yes, they will be working on it for some time.

As for Windows 7, I don't know how long one will be able to get legit licenses but I sure can now. And, just how many TMS systems are going in that it will be a problem. What benefit is there to using Windows 10 for the TMS?

Donnacha...does your computer not have the Win 7 product key sticker on its case somewhere? If so, you should be able do a clean install on that computer and use that product key. The Win 7 Pro discs are around (and available new still. The order code if you want the disc with a new product key is: FQC-08289).

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-18-2016, 12:05 PM:

MS will still even sell you a legit W-7 license if you can't locate a new disk with COA.

If you do manage to get it back to 7 again then install WGX Control panel or some other similar app so you can control if and when it upgrades. I knew there was a time limit but I thought it was longer than 30 days. I have way to many TMS's running to have automatic upgrades start happening... yet. There is also a forthcoming completely automatic GDC TMS version and weather it will require W-10 or a Windows Server OS in order to function remains to be seen.

Also save an image of your clean install for a just in case use!

Mark

Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 04-18-2016, 12:08 PM:

So the computer you are using to run the T.M.S. program was Windows 10 from the start?

What we did was get the hardware recommendations from G.D.C. for the T.M.S. software and built our computers to spec.

We have various office equipment and P.O.S. machines that were installed with Windows 10 and/or upgraded. We have had our share of problems. There are issues with the way Windows 10 handles file and network sharing. However, with having a few P.O.S. machines running Windows - we have to run an OS that can receive security updates. SO for the newer builds we just went with Windows 10 - since it won't go out of support until 2025.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 04-18-2016, 12:20 PM:

Note, if you do indeed have a valid Windows key...MS will even let you download the Win 7 ISO directly from them!

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows7

This is true for Win 8 and Win 10...the three supported versions (until 2020 for Windows 7, 2023 for Windows 8 and 2025 for Windows 10)

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-18-2016, 05:51 PM:

I sure hope they skip Windows 13!

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-19-2016, 12:50 PM:

I just checked on the version of TMS you are running (4.17023) and its in the pilot program bin. So it may be ok and it many not be ok. Thats the run it at your own risk catagory.

Mark

Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 06-10-2016, 09:12 AM:

I was just told yesterday by a fairly reliable source that the G.D.C. T.MS. Program will be compatible with Windows 10 by the end of July 2016. My take on this is that they will have a beta version by then.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 06-10-2016, 10:33 AM:

Good download link for GWX Control Panel? Google brings up a hundred of em.

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 06-10-2016, 12:10 PM:

I have been playing around with Windows 10 for a couple of months now. I took a machine that had 8.1 on it and took it to 10. One thing I found is that for a smoother operation you need to have at least 8GB in RAM. But hardware is not the real story behind Windows 10. It is the privacy issues and how much it wants to seek out the internet to send info to Microsoft and to try and speed up the updates. Now granted I am using a basic home network and am not trying to run critical intensive network related programs but, the following may help to make things run smoother.

If you have not done this already, do try the below settings.

Go to start and click the settings or type in privacy on the search bar.

On the left you will see a list of categories. Starting with General, click on each one. If any of the settings on the right page show as on turn them all off.

You probably will need to be logged in as administrator to make some of these changes.

General: turn everything off
Location: turn everything off
Camera: turn everything off
Microphone: turn everything off
Speech, Inking & typing: click on get to know me and make sure it is off.
Account info: turn it off
Contacts: turn everything off
Calendar: turn everything off
Call history: turn everything off
Email: turn everything off
Messaging: turn everything off
Radios: turn everything off
Other devices: turn everything off
Feedback & Diagnostics: Windows should ask for my feedback set to never. Diagnostic and usage data: set to basic.
Background apps: Turn everything off unless there is one that has to be on, otherwise, everything listed can be turned off.

Now if you have access with this machine to get updates off of the internet, shouldn't be unless you have a dedicated firewall to protect the critical network, you will want to download the Spybot Anti-Beacon tool. This tool will help keep the privacy settings locked down when the system restarts after a windows update.

Whether this helps with all the issues you are having with your TMS program I can't say it will or will not help, but I found that the overall performance of Windows 10 did seem to improve by making those changes.

Oh and don't be surprised when July 29th comes around and Microsoft announces that they are extending their free Windows 10 upgrade another 6 months or a year. Their goal is to get 1 billion computer users to convert to Windows 10 within three years.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-11-2016, 04:15 PM:

quote: Dennis Benjamin
I was just told yesterday by a fairly reliable source that the G.D.C. T.MS. Program will be compatible with Windows 10 by the end of July 2016. My take on this is that they will have a beta version by then.

It already runs under it just fine (since the first Ver. 4.1. Its more a matter of GDC getting set up to support systems that are Windows 10 based then anything else. That takes a while. So you can go ahead and run it that way now but you won't get any help from Tech Support on it.

What I am looking foreword to is the fully automated TMS App that is supposed to appear later this year... For now Version 4.1.7023 works just fine.

Mark