Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: NEC 900 Firmware

This is topic NEC 900 Firmware in forum Digital Cinema Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 04-29-2016, 12:57 PM:

Is it safe to upgrade firmware from 3.00 to the latest in one shot?

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 04-29-2016, 03:52 PM:

I, personally, wouldn't be so bold. In theory, it should work. Are you sure you are on service pack 3.00? That isn't even downloadable anymore. Remember too, on the NC900 some things have to be updated manually via RS232 in conjunction (like the lens firmware...currently on 10). The NC900 wasn't issued with anything less than 4.200 so something sounds fishy here.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-29-2016, 06:10 PM:

Seems like someone stuck an ICP in it from an older machine.

Mark

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-30-2016, 09:25 AM:

The new lens firmware is somewhat interesting but I have had zero lens problems with the NC-900's. These lenses ar more stable than NC-2000 are. Does anyone know what it is supposed to "fix"?

Thanks,
Mark

Posted by Ian Freer (Member # 1940) on 04-30-2016, 03:05 PM:

Don't quote me on this, but I think it contains a fix for a potential issue that can fry one of the lens shift motors. I too haven't had any lens shift failures, but the factory must have seen an issue repeating itself somewhere around the world , and this firmware is designed to prevent further occurrences...

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 04-30-2016, 03:25 PM:

Mark,
The 900 is VERY inaccurate when it comes to lens positioning, how can you say ZERO problems?

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-01-2016, 08:10 AM:

The new lens firmware is somewhat interesting but I have had zero lens problems with the NC-900's. These lenses ar more stable than NC-2000 are. Does anyone know what it is supposed to "fix"?

Thanks,
Mark

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-01-2016, 09:18 PM:

The NC900 lens settings are the most unstable in the industry...what are you talking about? It can't hit its mark...ever. Heck you can't adjust it precisely to begin with.

Version 10 of the lens firmware is supposed to fix a corruption potential. That said, I too have not had a problem in version 09.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 05-02-2016, 04:57 AM:

Steve,

Have you seen a similar issue with the Barco S series? Haven't installed many but it seems that if the two lens positions are far away then no problems; but if Flat and Scope are very close (Flat screen) then the projector seems to struggle to get back to the same spot twice?

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-02-2016, 12:50 PM:

I don't have enough experience with the "S" series to comment one way or the other beyond not noticing a problem but flat/scope lens settings must have been far enough apart. Fortunately, most of our potential "S2K" projectors have bought the better DP2K-12C instead.

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 05-03-2016, 07:48 AM:

For Barco projectors with almost-identical lens files I break the normal rule of saving after moving in the direction of motion from the other preset - by saving after moving the other way the lens motors go past the target and then back. This seems to make them more repeatable, I think possible with very small movements the drive hysteresis is not fully taken up. Making them go past and back on preset changes eliminates that error.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 05-03-2016, 12:55 PM:

Thanks Dave, I'll give it a go next time

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-03-2016, 07:28 PM:

My only beef about the NC-900 is the speed of the focus and zoom. Othter wise I've had zero complaints and no focus or zoom drift.

Mark

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-03-2016, 08:02 PM:

It has a bigger problem with vertical and horizontal shift. Though zoom isn't stellar either.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 05-04-2016, 01:42 AM:

Mark

That's simply untrue. It's a limitation acknowledged by NEC too.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-08-2016, 02:03 PM:

Marco, I get no complaints fomr any theater owners about it at all. And when I am on site the pictures are all looking great. I don't know what else to tell you... I certainly acknowledge the drives are way to coarse though.

If there WERE problems with focus or image size drift I would certainly be hearing about it and seeing it for myself. I have 34 NC-900's installed.

Mark

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 05-08-2016, 02:19 PM:

then go tell NEC that they are mistaken and that the lens in the NC900 is working great because the pictures look good.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-08-2016, 04:26 PM:

Oh stop Mark...stop trying to defend the indefensible. It isn't even subject to interpretation. For the same reason that the shift adjustments are course is why it can't hit its mark. It's a fact. It does better (or is less noticeable) on zoom and focus but on H/V position, it is abysmal.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-09-2016, 01:18 PM:

I agree and I mentioned above the motors were way too coarse. I just have not had any zoom or focus drift issues at all.

Mark

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 05-09-2016, 05:01 PM:

So you had "zero lens problems with the 900" and "zero complaints and no focus or zoom drift" and also "the pictures are all looking great" - but the 'pictures' are a foot off the screen as the H/V shift is just rubbish.

Sounds like a great technical analysis to me.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 05-09-2016, 06:05 PM:

I have an NC900 in a distant location which I only visit once a year. They may not do the most advanced lens movement possible there, it's a constant height screen. But I never have to adjust the lens when I'm there. So, it may be coarse, it may be off a bit from time to time, but it seems there is no absolute drift.
I'm okay with that. It's a low cost machine, what do you expect?
From the customers point of view, it's performing flaw-less.

- Carsten

Posted by Ian Freer (Member # 1940) on 05-09-2016, 07:27 PM:

I generally agree with Carsten.
The lens shift for me does not hit the same spot twice, but it does not drift more and more over time either.
It's never 'perfect', but in general the image is just fine and not causing anyone any grief.

Whether that's acceptable because it's 'low cost', I am not sure. It's low cost compared to a bigger machine, but still a significant investment, especially for a smaller theatre... Personally I find it frustrating.

I have changed my approach to screen files when installing these projectors; rather than try and be pixel-perfect, I now leave a little over-spill on to the masking (that's almost, sorta, kinda (yeah I'm trying to justify this to myself) what it was there for in the first place with 35mm) so hopefully between each lens format change, the over-spill may shift a little to the top and next time a little to the bottom or whatever, but generally end up with the image always filling the screen.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 05-10-2016, 03:29 AM:

I confirm the lens does not drift, it simply doesn't hit the same spot twice.

It's still a 5-zero worth machine, I reckon it should be possible to engineer a better solution for lens positioning.

Most of our customers won't complain unless the picture is upside down AND with wrong colours. If a customer does not complain about something, that doesn't mean anything to me. If we evaluated equipment based on customer satisfaction, everything would be top notch.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-10-2016, 05:19 AM:

Yes, it does not drift so much as the lens shift system does not have the "resolution" to land on the same place twice. Low cost or no, it was ill designed. You can get home theatre projectors that cost 1/10 that have better accuracy. My brief experience with Barco's S2K machines was better in terms of lens accuracy too.

Now, if you have constant width screens, THEN you could effectively never move the lens so the problem wouldn't show itself (shift the image, if necessary on the imager).

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-10-2016, 09:54 AM:

My case is the latter one where we are only using the zoom. I agree there are more accurate home projectors and why NEC used such coarse Hall drive motors is beyond me.

Mark