Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Nec 900C v Barco DP2K-6E

This is topic Nec 900C v Barco DP2K-6E in forum Digital Cinema Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Jerzy Gwizdz (Member # 8819) on 05-24-2016, 12:08 PM:

Hello
please opinion that the projector is better
Nec NC900C or Barco DP2K-6E

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 05-24-2016, 05:50 PM:

We just canceled an NC900C and bought a DP2K-6E instead, so, in MY opinion, the DP2K-6E is the better machine. The only thing I am missing on it a bit is a real dowser.

The Alchemy server is the better choice over the typical NC900 (IMS) options.
The 6E also has quite a bit more light, so, may also be the better choice for (small) 3D screens. The NEC has a slightly broader range of lenses, and better air filtering. The Barco also is less noisy. In germany, the Barco is also cheaper than the NEC.

- Carsten

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 05-25-2016, 01:11 AM:

I thought the 6E had good air filtering? The filters are proper ones and the S10 issue should have been rectified on the 6E.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 05-25-2016, 05:36 AM:

Alright, I should have been more precise, the 6E has the same lens mount related dust issues as the 8Sx/10Sx.

- Carsten

Posted by Marin Zorica (Member # 1716) on 05-25-2016, 05:52 AM:

I would stay on Barco too. Only thing i do not like, but when you think it might not be big deal for small projector is lense chose on barco, max throw you can get on 6E/10sx/8sx is 3.9.....so if you say still have some old cinema, which is long but thin, which was commong thing in 40's and 50's which later went from 1:1,37 only to scope. So 6-7m widescreen on 25m throw you're short there with Barco on Flat format.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 05-26-2016, 01:11 AM:

Thanks Carsten. I thought the issue was coming from the main filter not properly seating on the gasket. Surely this could be addressed by Barco?

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-26-2016, 03:54 PM:

I've had great luck with the 30 some odd NC-900's I have installed. There were lamp issues but the lamp and ballast were redesigned and that part has settled down now. And who on earth would ever sell an IMS to a theater? What a piece of crap. If you do then take your right hand and slap your self in the face as hard as you can. You should be selling the SX-3000, its light years ahead of any of the IMS's.

Mark

Posted by Jerzy Gwizdz (Member # 8819) on 05-27-2016, 02:43 AM:

Thanks to all for your opinions.
Carsten what's going on with the dowser in 6E?

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-27-2016, 11:23 AM:

There is none...nothing going on. It just doesn't exist on the economy model.

And I dare say Mark, you've never tried the Barco Alchemy server to be able to judge how good it is or isn't. We all get that you are a fanboy for NEC and GDC...it's a given.

Posted by David Buckley (Member # 2600) on 05-27-2016, 04:16 PM:

quote: Steve Guttag
There is none...nothing going on. It just doesn't exist on the economy model.

Though it pretends to all the world that it is. It's like a "shutter" on a consumer level projector, it just blanks the image drive.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-27-2016, 09:06 PM:

I have absolutely no reason for me to try it Steve. I already have a really good-reliable product base installed.

Mark

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-28-2016, 08:35 AM:

I'm not telling you to. But shut up about products you have no experience with because you can offer no valuable information. But consider this, until you check out other things, you'll never know what you are missing.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-31-2016, 12:48 PM:

Ya can't argue with the success and reliability of the equipment I've installed that does the job its supposed to do. You can take your over priced Barco's and stuff em, but no doubt you make a tidy profit off servicing them! I have had so many odd issues with Barcos that I stopped servicing them all together, it's just not worth the hassle. Like the guy with the clogged light engine...Sheesh, that's ridiculous to even have happen! Rarely does one even really need to change coolant in an NEC, just be sure it's at the correct level. 335 NEC - GDC systems and only a couple of blips in six years is pretty dam good reliability. Christies are still ok for the most part though and I do service and still recommend them on occasion.

Mark

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-31-2016, 02:41 PM:

I can and will argue (as will many others). Your experience is bordering on "unique." Nobody has the reliability that you claim. I also don't "make a tidy profit" out of fixing Barcos. Quite the contrary, they are the easiest to keep going. And, they get 20% more light on any give wattage lamp than the projectors YOU use. Don't get me wrong, I like NEC well enough and they have NOT been problematic, except for the NC900 (which even you would have to admit is not designed well from a service standpoint).

But to the point on this subject...you have no clue as to how good or bad the Alchemy is. It is definitely a generation ahead of any other server out there and it has been in the field for over a year to get its bugs worked out. People that have them, like them. Your opinion as to the Alchemy versus any other server is worthless since you have no experience with them.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 05-31-2016, 06:28 PM:

With our Barco ESCAPE Install, I have the ICMP Alchemy server located in the "Baker" projector and Barco Commander, with the commander being either a web browser based along with software based interface.

I find Commander to very user friendly like with the Doremi.

Right now, the information from the ICMP can't be seen by the GDC TMS, yet Barco is working on a program or emulator that the ICMP can interface with the GDC.

To get all content up to the ICMP, we have a NAS drive to ingest content into from the LMS, then transfer the content up to the ICMP.

In the meantime, I have to log into the Commander to do my needed digital work.

We do "Star Trek" in July in the Escape format.

- Monte

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 06-01-2016, 10:27 AM:

Why can't you ingest to the ICMP directly? Or is this a choice?

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 06-01-2016, 11:11 AM:

apparently this is not yet possible

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 06-01-2016, 03:08 PM:

Not possible yet due to the lack of the protocol where each system can recognize the other.

This is what GDC is working on, (or, plan on working on..).

Alternative way to direct ingest to the ICMP is through USB being that it does have four, two 2.0 and two 3.0 USB ports, but using the HD powered sled for feature content and thumb drive for keys and ad content, which in a way is faster than using the NAS since you're moving content only once instead of twice.

It's a work of progress, but do like it better in the long run.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohbEwmuoFV0

- Monte

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 06-01-2016, 03:51 PM:

The ICMP speaks SMB and FTP. Wouldn't understand why it can't talk to a GDC directly?

As a matter of fact, the ICMP filebrowser is the most sophisticated I've seen to far. It gives you detailed information about all asset types and their relations before they have been ingested.

- Carsten

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 06-01-2016, 05:17 PM:

Carsten

yes you can copy the asset on the ICMP but the ICMP won't ingest it automatically and the content won't show up on the content list. The only way - I'm told - is to go through the INGEST screen, select a source (which can be FTP indeed) and ingest. But you cannot just drop the content and have it ingested automatically. They are working on that.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 06-01-2016, 06:33 PM:

Yes, in the INGEST tab, I have two sub tabs: One tab titled, "INGEST Jobs" content list and the other tab titled, "SOURCE.

I click on Source and I have two options: NAS or USB

There is a side ticbox that asks if I want to do a Quick Scan of the content in the source.

I usually untic this box since a quick scan isn't that all accurate and will miss needed content.

When the scan begins, the content in the device begins to populate in the space below this instruction. By each CPL/KDM, is a download symbol. I tic the chosen download symbols where an animation of that symbols show the symbol moving to the INGEST Jobs tab.

I open up the INGEST JOB tab to see how the ingest process is progressing and can stop, and resume the ingest if needed.

-Monte

Posted by Jerzy Gwizdz (Member # 8819) on 06-02-2016, 01:34 PM:

One more question- who quietly works
We assemble in the auditorium

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 06-02-2016, 02:24 PM:

The Barco datasheet quotes it half as noisy as the closest competitor - that means the NEC NC900. Wether it's -6dB or -5dB in reality, but the Barco is indeed very low noise, even operating both lamps. And that is INCLUDING the server, which adds no noise itself, besides some hard disc whisper.

Now, the Barco 6E is still not a home cinema projector when it comes to noise, but it is indeed very 'silent' in operation. No other DCI setup comes close.

I still wish it had a real dowser...

quote: Marco Giustini
But you cannot just drop the content and have it ingested automatically. They are working on that.

You mean, there is no 'push' for content? Yes, that's true, at least it is not mentioned in the manuals/release notes. You can ingest content the traditional way through the GUI, or pull content from it through FTP. Don't know in which way the ICMP could interface with any TMS systems it there isn't a push feature, though?

- Carsten

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 06-02-2016, 02:25 PM:

Monte,

You can also setup an FTP source if you need one (your PC for example).

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-02-2016, 02:39 PM:

Really DISLIKE the internal hard drives... If the OS also resides on those like it does the Dolremi then thats a big red flag for me...

Carsten, you can't hear the NC-900 running as it is unless you switch the lamp fans to high. Once you get to that low of noise level realm then any lower noise level is pretty irrelevant and something that you are likely just paying for.

Mark

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-02-2016, 05:14 PM:

I wish GDC would put the drives inside the IMS as I have had to replace a lot of the interconnect cables that have become flaky

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 06-02-2016, 05:20 PM:

The NC900C-A is definitely audible at 50dBA. The volume of it doesn't change very much at all when it is in or out of standby or if the lamp(s) are on. It is quieter than larger projectors, for sure but far from quiet. The Barco is said to be a few dB quieter but these are not as quiet as quiet A/V projectors. Home Theatre projectors are in the low 20s and A/V projectors are now getting into the 29-35dBA range. You really want to get towards the 35dB (and lower) range to have it run "naked" in a theatre and not hear the projector.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 06-02-2016, 06:08 PM:

Related topic:

With my ESCAPE setup, Able and Charlie projectors are mounted, inside, what's called, "Hush Boxes" - an heavily insulated fibreglass box with its own port window.

This box is where the 20C projector sits in, has a filtered intake on the top front of the box with two fans at the end of the box to blow out the exhaust through foam washable filters since no external exhaust can be used.

Mounted in cubby holes in the ceiling, these boxes are lowered to a preset level when we use the format.

For maintenance, these boxes can also be lowered down to table level.

During operation, one can barely hear the fans

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 06-03-2016, 03:04 AM:

Carsten

I guess the TMS could ask the ICMP to pull the content from a specific source? I'm sure Barco will add the feature soon.

Mark
So where should reside the OS? The 6E is quieter than the 900C.

Posted by Jerzy Gwizdz (Member # 8819) on 06-03-2016, 04:49 AM:

Can you move the projector 1.2 m to the left from the center of the screen?
distance from the screen 10m the screen size of 4m
How will this affect the quality of the projection?

-Jurek

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-03-2016, 08:04 AM:

Gord,

I haven't had any issues with cables on GDC.s. I have had a couple defective cables with brand new CRU bays though. Someone needs to develop a line of heavy duty eSATA cables for sure. They seem cheesy no matter who's you buy. My only gripe on the GDC is I wish they'd put a nutsert in the chassis where the cable tightens down. My one and only issue has been with them not seeing a drive in the eSATA version of the CRU Movedock bay. Build 383 and above has taken care of that issue though.

Mark

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 06-03-2016, 08:52 AM:

I agree on the eSATA/SATA cable thing. I've had my BEST luck with Tripplite eSATA cables (P950 series). They come in various lengths and I've had 100% success with them...thus far!

Likewise for the P952 series for eSATA to SATA.

The eSATA connector, like HDMI was very poorly thought out in that it doesn't really have a locking standard. Some connectors grip better than others.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 06-03-2016, 08:54 AM:

quote: Jerzy Gwizdz
Can you move the projector 1.2 m to the left from the center of the screen?
distance from the screen 10m the screen size of 4m
How will this affect the quality of the projection?

Yes, you can, with both NC900C and Barco DP2K-6E.

Shifting from the center will always have *some* influence, but in most cases, projector software limits shift usage to a range where this will barely be noticeable.

- Carsten

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-05-2016, 12:59 PM:

quote: Carsten Kurz
Shifting from the center will always have *some* influence, but in most cases, projector software limits shift usage to a range where this will barely be noticeable.

Exactly. The amount of available shift is dependent on the lens installed in the projector. Shorter focal length have more shift available than longer focal length do.

Mark

Posted by Jerzy Gwizdz (Member # 8819) on 02-09-2017, 07:37 AM:

Hello
We bought Barco
Mounted in the hall because noisy
Pictures

Regards

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 02-09-2017, 07:46 AM:

your service engineer will love that [Big Grin]

Posted by Jerzy Gwizdz (Member # 8819) on 02-09-2017, 07:50 AM:

It is mounted on rails and is moved to the left and to the rear.
From the room window is opened

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 02-09-2017, 02:41 PM:

Thank you on behalf of all service engineers! [Wink]

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 02-09-2017, 05:01 PM:

What type of location is this?

- Carsten

Posted by Jerzy Gwizdz (Member # 8819) on 02-10-2017, 02:29 AM:

A small room for 50 people
Screen size of 4.5 m

-Jurek