Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: NEC 1600 Problems

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Posted by Steve Wilson (Member # 2411) on 05-29-2016, 05:40 AM:

I am having times when I boot up and run my NEC 1600 when the light out put is good enough and then I have other times that the light out put is somewhat diminished and the colors appear to be off a tad bit or muted. Has any one have any ideas on this. One tech told me that since we have moved this unit a bunch via pick up truck that all the plug inboards may need to be reseated? NEC also recommended as its number one bulb for this unit, a 4000K high out put bulb with 18,000 lumens with 750 hours max usage and we put in a bulb that was rated at 1500 hours but only 12000 lumens. Thanks for any ideas. usually we need more light.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 05-29-2016, 04:05 PM:

hard to say without seeing it first hand. I doubt the light output could be related to a board though. What do you mean when you say that colours are a tad off? How big is your screen and what ratio it is (constant width/height)?

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-29-2016, 04:58 PM:

Always try a new lamp first. An unstable arc can cause this exact issue. If the lamp doesn't cure it then something may be loose inside or need adjustment. And as far as the lmap goes it needs to be properly sized for your screen width and gain. 14 fl +\- 2 fl is spec for digital. I prefer to be at 16 if possible. You also don't want to be running a lamp over a range of about 70 to 75 percent of available current when new to achieve that brightness spec. You need the head room as the lamp ages to maintain the brightness.

Mark

Posted by Steve Wilson (Member # 2411) on 05-31-2016, 01:13 AM:

One of my other drive in theater owners asked me if this problem could possibly be from Rural Electric being a low voltage problem too??

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 05-31-2016, 02:58 AM:

Would the slight drop in line voltage have certain affects on the rectifier's capacitors?

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-31-2016, 10:18 AM:

Possibly.... You'd have to be below the lower end of the AC voltage rating for the xenon switcher for it to act oddly. May also be difficult to ignite with low AC line voltage. The power company can probably put a recorder across those two legs and monitor for a while.

Mark

Posted by Steve Wilson (Member # 2411) on 06-02-2016, 12:16 AM:

Thanks Mark. I am working with REMC to put a recorder in place for a couple of weeks.

Posted by Steve Wilson (Member # 2411) on 07-20-2016, 01:56 AM:

Hi Mark. I had REMC to come out and check out my transformer. They were supposed to put on a recorder and did not. But he did tighten up the connections and say they were not as tight as they should have been. The only thing I know after all of this time, the problem went away after the REMC guy tightened everything up. So far so good! Thanks

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 07-20-2016, 12:06 PM:

That makes sense to me, as loose connections can wreak havoc on all kinds of electrical equipment.

Even though a standard voltmeter would show a steady voltage at possibly the right value, the continuous (or intermittent) arcing caused by loose connections presents a very choppy waveform far from the normal sine wave of AC. (The current also changes rapidly as a result.)

This will make most equipment misbehave in some fashion.

The projector's switching supply was probably trying to constantly adjust it's output frequency (pre filtering) to maintain the lamp current or was seeing large current spikes caused by the unstable input power and thus rapidly adjusting the lamp output to try to keep it at the set values. Either one will stress the switcher and cause lamp output to suffer.

Side tip: If you have any incandescent fixtures that seem to constantly blow lamps out faster than the others, check the sockets and wiring for loose connections. Incandescent lamps draw (for a split second) HUGE inrush currents to heat the filament up....any arcing in the incoming power is the equivalent of turning the lamp on and off very fast several times a second and will burn it out faster.

Posted by Steve Wilson (Member # 2411) on 08-06-2016, 10:38 PM:

Hi Guys, I have another problem with my barely 5 year old obsolete NEC 1600. The guy that sold me this machine gave me some of the keys for the unit, but did not give me the key for the interior aluminum box inside the projector. He just told me I was on my own! I have tried to buy keys form NEC and that is a no go! We are afraid to cut it open, but I may be-forced to, but the metal shavings is also a no go! Not sure if a lock smith can open it or what to do. We were getting DLP ACK Failure 1207. We were going reseat the boards inside of the aluminum case! But cannot get access. I have an electronics technician on my staff trying to help me on this! He is pretty good at what he knows and does. What can I do to get this open? Pictures of the Opened Aluminum Box lid bottom and lock would be very helpful, so we can see what the lock set up of the lock and its interior obstacles. My next idea is the Coke repair guy is due here any day and I could go through his hundred or so keys to see if I can find one.

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 08-07-2016, 08:08 PM:

Most locksmiths will have a picking "gun" for these locks. You can hand-pick them but it's a pain as they relock every 45 degrees. Once open, have all the pins removed so any key can turn it.
To save locksmith fees... The lock is brass and easy to drill out... in an emergency (like yours) I put a garbage bag over the top of the projector and taped it down around a hole to access the lock. It was pretty quick to drill out with a bit that was not quite as big as the outsides of the pins. I can work the "lock" with a screwdriver now. Just drill until you feel the pins getting chewed out, pick any remaining bits of pins and springs out with a needle, vacuum the chips up. Unless you drill all the way through (don't) no chips get in through the lock.
If you want to replace it after drilling it out, equivalent locks are pretty cheap.

Posted by Steve Wilson (Member # 2411) on 08-10-2016, 03:20 PM:

Thanks Dave for the Reply. I will probably end up getting a lock smith! Does anyone know if this aluminum box is a shield and is there a security feature to this lock? Thanks Again for any help.

Posted by Peter Foyster (Member # 9599) on 08-17-2016, 10:02 PM:

Hi Steve and others
I recently took over the Kookaburra outdoor cinema in Western Australia, originally built and run by Lindsay Morris for nearly 20 years.

In 2014 Lindsay installed digital cinema equipment, notably an NEC NC1600C projector, Dolby DSS100 server, DSP100 and CP650. Whilst the equipment is quite old by current standards, the alternative to making the investment was to walk away from everything he had built up as getting film prints was becoming nigh on impossible. The season was a success and I took over and ran the next season from November 2015 to April 2016 with no real technical problems other than the occasional ‘Lamp Unlit’ error which eventually went away, I think when I took to switching on the lamp power supply from the projector rather than the circuit breaker, or maybe just dumb luck!

It is interesting that Steve should mention the “Warning DLP Ack Fail 1207” because that is exactly what happened to me about a month after shutting down for the winter. I would fire up the equipment for several hours every couple of weeks to keep everything charged up, however one day, upon turning the projector on it came up with this wretched message.

The NEC expert said that this is usually caused by a macro and would require the backup files to be loaded to the projector. The original installer, from the other side of the country, tried remotely to reload the files, however the error persisted. They now believe that the TI board is faulty and will need to be replaced. The board is hideously expensive and will require that the installer fly across country to replace it.

Before I commit to this course of action I am curious as to what consequences, if any, resulted from the error on Steve’s projector and how it has effected presentation. I would like to think that in both our cases it is just a loose connection that can be fixed by reseating the board, but in my case I fear the worst. Whilst the macro LEDs indicate a change of function (with the exception of 3D flat and 3D scope for some reason) nothing is translated to the screen.

I must also take this opportunity to thank Brad for getting me registered so that I could make my first post. By the way, it is interesting to go back to early posts in 1999/2000 and read the comments from you guys as to the impact of digital and the future of film.
[thumbsup]

Posted by Leslie Hartmier (Member # 7053) on 08-18-2016, 08:04 PM:

DLP Ack Fail (12, 07) (error code 120, incidentally) is, to use NEC's words, "Image orientation operation fail (The feature related FMT fail)", and they recommend checking the formatter boards - it could be the red, green or blue formatter.

HOWEVER, and this is where the person from NEC tripped up, DLP Ack Fail (17, 02) (again, error code 120) is "Macro File not found.", which is correctable by reuploading/recreating the macro files (this includes the PCF, MCGD, TCGD, screen files, etc). If you are sure that the error was DLP Ack Fail (12, 07), it is NOT the macro file that is causing the failure.

NEC doesn't have anyone particularly versed in the older projectors (I am being gentle with my words - there are others who would be more direct with their thoughts about NEC's support for their series 1 machines), so it is not surprising that they might say that, as they are likely just looking at manuals, which is often a pretty limited way to be helpful.

That said, there is a formatter reset that might help, although unless you are certain of yourself, you should get a technician to do this, and it requires one of the remotes for the series 1 NEC D-cinema projectors.

If you have the remote (there is also a cable you need to plug it in. IR doesn't work for this), the keypress combination is to hold 'CTL' and 'HELP', which will reset all formatter boards.

If this does not work, regrettably, it definitely exceeds the point at which a technician/installer gets involved. The DLP control program can reset the projector (interface, processor, FFIB and FSB), but misuse of that program by someone who doesn't know what they are doing can and will result in a dead projector.

If all else fails, you will have to hope someone can source out the correct formatter board and/or the EFIB board (controls the formatter boards).

Leslie

Posted by Peter Foyster (Member # 9599) on 08-19-2016, 12:04 AM:

Thanks for that information, Leslie.

It is not looking too good for me at the moment. I hope Steve has better luck with his 1600.

There is a remote control unit which is stored away and never been touched. I shall get it out in the event I can find someone to do the formatter reset.

I hear what you are saying about support. I can't find anyone in my city to service the machine and will have to pay the tech to fly over 3000 Kilometres to do the servicing. [thumbsdown]

My profile picture should appear in due course. I don't know if that is a good thing or not! [Wink]

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-19-2016, 11:35 AM:

quote: Leslie Hartmier
NEC doesn't have anyone particularly versed in the older projectors

That was because NEC had no D-Cinema anything at all except the equipment and depended solely on Wrong International for all support and training. Knowing that alone should answer volumes! Not sure that Wrong is even going to be around very much longer at the rate they are doing...

Mark

Posted by Leslie Hartmier (Member # 7053) on 08-19-2016, 12:24 PM:

I would tend to agree with you Mark, as that is pretty much what NEC has told us, right from the engineers down. You have no idea how excited they were when they found that we had a prototype NC2500S (when I called for some insight and quoted its serial number, I was variously told that a) I was mistaken, b) I was lying, c) I had the Holy Grail, and d) I just couldn't be right because that serial number cannot exist.)

A fan died in it that exists in no documentation, in a place that according to the docs has no fan. I had to use manuals from two different projectors to maintain it. Not in one manual? Check the other one.

Good ol' Fan 10.

Can't even upgrade it to the last version of the 2500S firmware, as it has a special firmware, and updating it will make for a very heavy doorstop, which NEC and Tri-state said will not be able to recovered from.

Still, I miss that machine now... poor zombie. (I had to install a PJDIV board from a 2500S and though it still works great, there is no way to get the green taillights to work - forever orange)

Leslie

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-19-2016, 03:11 PM:

Before it was part of NEC it was part of Digital Projection who decided they couldn't go anywhere with a D-Cinema line so sold the license and early designs (2500 and 1600) to NEC. Digital Projection still makes DLP projectors though. There also existed a console mount NEC 1.2K DLP projector. Some where I have a picture of that. A friend in Chicago had or may still have one that was used as a rental in the early days.

Mark

Posted by Peter Foyster (Member # 9599) on 08-23-2016, 01:51 AM:

I had the tech remote in to the projector this morning and despite updating the software and firmware versions, the problem remains.

The next step is him ordering a replacement board and someone flying across the country to install it. Just as well the outdoor cinema season does not start until November or I would be in a right pickle! [Mad]

I hope Steve is able to sort out the problem with the 1600. Perhaps he will post here in due course and let us know how he went.

Digital: [thumbsdown]

Film

Posted by Steve Wilson (Member # 2411) on 09-07-2016, 07:15 PM:

DLP Ack Fail (12, 07)

Hi Peter. I am sorry to have been so slow at seeing your post. To fix my problem, My friend, an Electronics Tech at my drive in theater. He took all the main boards out of the center of the projector. We cleaned the contacts with contact spray and then reinserted the boards. Wiggling the contacts as he reinserted the boards. We have not had any problems since we did that! It is the recommended fix for the said error code listed above. I have had a good summer and my machine is working well.

I do hate the fact that I do have a projector that is an Orphan!

Peter, here is another idea too. My booth has a dehumidifier in it. One night I let the humidity get up to 80% before I dumped the water tank. Its not yet piped to the outside. This high humidity did cause me a lot or problems one night before we reseated the boards. These machines do not like high humidity at all. In fact I know better but was too lazy to dump the water. Its a mistake I never make anymore either.

Thanks Peter for your insights on your NEC 1600. Despite what has been said, there are hundreds of them in use around the world. Keep posting your progress here.

Also, One other note. Make sure and replace your network cable running from the server to the projector and clean the contacts on both units!

Posted by Peter Foyster (Member # 9599) on 09-07-2016, 10:41 PM:

Thanks for your reply, Steve.

The NEC guru from Sydney is coming over to Western Australia next week and will probably be servicing my machine on Thursday.
He will first check the boards and clean and re-seat them before trying the new board as they indicated that they don't like to replace boards that aren't faulty.

Of course, if it turns out that it is actually a faulty board and they didn't have a spare it would be a bit of a waste of time so just as well they will have one on hand. 4000 Km is a long way to come without a contingency plan!

I will post the results to the forum after the service. Fingers crossed it is as you have suggested. In any case it is good to know that I will have the Aussie expert on hand to service my machine.

Posted by Manny Montes (Member # 5639) on 09-08-2016, 08:39 PM:

Is it common for most other countries to have similar distance for their techs? I feel pretty lucky that the worst issue I've ever had with digital had me down for a day while a tech flew in from the next state over and the part was shipped via courier and arrived with a nice older lady in a minivan.

Posted by Peter Foyster (Member # 9599) on 09-11-2016, 12:37 AM:

I can only speak from my own perspective which is as a single screen independent cinema owner/operator among primarily large cinema chains with their own technical staff.

Western Australia is very much isolated from the rest of the continent by distance, it being the largest State but containing only about 11% of the total population of Australia, with the majority living in the south west portion of the State. It is a 2 day drive (allowing for an overnight stop on the way) to the capital city of the next State. Driving at night is fraught with danger, mainly from the vast numbers of kangaroos that gather on or near the road.

There appears to be limited knowledge of the NEC projector in this State, and as far as I know, there are very few of these projectors in use in WA. I understand from conversations with a rep of one of the cinema chains that at least one of their local technicians is to receive training but will have to travel to the Eastern States to receive the training.

It is of real concern to me that my support options are limited and this may well, in due course, drive me to purchasing a Christie, or some such, where local support and components are readily available. That said, I do think the NEC is a fine projector, which I’m sure Mark would agree with.

Posted by Peter Foyster (Member # 9599) on 09-16-2016, 10:15 PM:

The Guru from the East appeared and brought with him a local tech for whom the Guru had come over to train in the ways of the NEC projector.

It was a good opportunity for the local guy to be present to see the repair process on a series 1 projector.

The first thing was to v-e-e-e-e-ry carefully remove the Texas Instruments board and clean the contacts and then v-e-e-e-e-ry carefully replace it.

This did not make a difference, despite trying a replacement board, resetting the projector and updating firmware.

It eventually came down to a faulty FFIB board which the Guru had spares of and resulted in the projector losing the error message and springing back to life. [Big Grin]

Whilst I don't yet know what the cost will be it is substantially less than if I had needed to replace the TI board.

My support guy in Sydney can now call on the local tech when necessary so as to avoid the need for coming over himself when remote access does not fix a problem.

I was told that the projector itself, whilst several years old now, has done very few hours and should work well for several more. Apparently this model was a particularly good projector, as good as, if not better, than some series 2 machines.

I have a spare 2.5K Ushio lamp that has only done 11 hours which apparently is ideal for the 9 metre screen (The existing 4K lamp was installed for 3D which is not worth the hassle of screening). I also had been given a set of new filters which I can install after the existing ones have had a wash and re-use.

Posted by Lindsay Morris (Member # 1430) on 09-19-2016, 05:40 AM:

Peter,
GOOD that you have the NEC 1600 back up & working...I know exactly how you would have felt..Just like I did when I had a corrupt screen advert DCP that crashed the server each time it was played. Took a long while to find that & remove & remake the offending DCP & no more issues but it cost me the weekend sessions which was no real big deal $$$ wise as the weekend was rather wet so very iffy at best.

You will find that the 2500W lamp is only good as a stop gap as you will be severely under lit on screen particularly in scope.
The 4K lamp was not only there for 3D sessions but to give correct screen illumination on scope & even flat as scope needs 2800 watts & flat I think was like 2400 watts.
Using the 4K lamp meant that you were under running it which affords you the facility of being able to increase the lamp current as the lamp ages to compensate for the drop off in light.

3D was always a bit light on as far as illumination went but I only ever ran the Flat versions of the 3D stuff screened so the light was a tad better.
But a white screen & Dolby 3D is in my view the best of the bunch as pin sharp edge to edge, EVEN screen illumination unlike the silver screen shows & extremely good 3D effect...things just appeared to hover mid air between the screen & your seat in a very natural way.

I really enjoyed observing the 3D interaction between patrons & the movies I ran in 3D..also enjoyed the experience myself even though having to wear 2 pairs of glasses.

Cleaning a couple of hundred Dolby glasses by hand I thought would be a drag but was dead easy if you let them sun dry as I did every time.
Just touching up the odd spots on the lens with Isopropyl as needed as they were packed away.

Lindsay

Posted by Peter Foyster (Member # 9599) on 09-19-2016, 06:33 AM:

Lindsay,
I was only going on what the NEC guru (you know who I mean) said to me the day that he serviced the projector, based on the screen size. He was also taking a look at the lamp and noticed that the yoke was actually sitting quite low which meant that the lamp was facing on a downward angle.

I will see if there is any increase in output now that he has adjusted it.
Peter

Posted by Lindsay Morris (Member # 1430) on 09-21-2016, 03:11 AM:

Interesting that the lamp end at the yoke was pointing downwards as when I changed the lamp from the 2500Watter to the 4Kw lamp I had to rotate the yoke as otherwise the larger diam of the neg end sitting in the yoke kicked it well up.
Made sense to rotate it so that it sat on the same sort of diam bit as the 2.5Kw lamp did...the 4K lamp is way longer.
Once the lamp was installed it looked pretty well parallel to the base of the lamphouse as the 2.5Kw lamp did.

Once you start doing the alignment the lamp is ON of course & thus the lamphouse is all closed up & the rear door on else the interlock stops any lamp ignition.

Went thru the laid down process of peaking the lamp to give the highest possible reading when in that applicable screen.
The reading with the 4K lamp in went WAY higher than the 2.5Kw lamp could ever muster...suggest you have a look at the logged readings of both lamps in the NEC manual I left on site.
After that I never went back inside the lamphouse apart from giving you a cursory look at it in the early days of handover.

At that stage you were not particularly interested in seeing how the lamp alignment screen was accessed or even the process of actually doing it apart from me showing you the tool kit I had assembled & the 3 controls that needed to be tweaked to get the lamp spot on.

It is possible that when the lamp was tweaked to give the MAX reading on the laptop the rear of the lamp was thus jacked up & I am not entirely sure that the yoke post is actually adjustable up & down...mostly likely would be but no longer have a manual to refer to be able to confirm that fact. Others here can confirm that..I do not know for sure.

I doubt that front of the lamp being a wee bit low would have much overall effect on the light output as the mirror is fixed & by moving the rear of the lamp about by those 3 adjusting screws the arc flame would be in correct alignment in relation to the mirror focal point.

If you recorded what the end result was after this last adjustment & compared that to the result when the lamp was first installed you will get a clue as to whether the light has either gone UP or Down.

Periodically I would go back into the lamp adjust screen & check that the figure I would then see was much the same as when it was installed. That was done twice in the season I ran the NEC & on each occasion it was exactly the same as the day I installed it.

It would be a good idea to familiarise yourself with that screen & from time to time check & maybe record the figure IF the illumination level as displayed has deviated. In my case as the figure had not moved I never bothered to notate that fact...I knew what was going on & was happy with the on screen light.

It is now approaching 4-5 years since the screen had a coat of paint & had I still been running the site I would have painted it this season...that is something for you to work out if it is now looking a bit dull. A new coat of paint does wonders as the screen sits there in all weathers & slowly but surely does dull down a lot.
You have the info as to what paint to use and the source of it..... choice is yours. [Smile]

BTW the screen is 9.6M wide & when I tried a NEC900 prior to opting for the 1600 the light from the 900 is scope was only JUST OK on light prints. Any dark moody prints it was bloody awful.
At installation the measured light was WAY UNDER spec using the original 2K lamp.
The measured light with the 2.5K lamp was JUST OK on Flat & not good on scope PLUS the lamp had to be run at full power. That would not give me any room to counter lamp ageing.

The installer, based upon his measurements, recommended that a 4K lamp be used & we set the scope light to be around 2.8Kw...BUT since installation NO further actual screen light measurements have been taken.
However based upon what my gut feeling told me from the many many 35mm screenings I did there indicated to me that the 2.8K estimated figure was rather close to the mark.

Every time I did a repaint of the screen surface the pix came up nice & bright again...it does sorta creep up you as the screen dulls off & you get a pleasant surprise when the screen is repainted. [thumbsup]

Posted by Peter Foyster (Member # 9599) on 09-21-2016, 06:25 AM:

Yes I was watching when you last adjusted the lamp and it looked just fine at the time. The Guru did find that the screws holding the yoke would not tighten properly and we had to pack them with washers.

Perhaps over time the yoke has dropped because of the screws; I don't know, I just accepted what he said, he being the Guru and all.

Actually I was quite happy to get a 3 to 4k lamp when replacement time came around, I probably will anyway, but not the Chinese ones that are being promoted, regardless of what they may say. It would be interesting to hear peoples comments on the lamps now that they have been around for a while, though it probably needs to be in a separate post. There was a forum discussion about them some time ago; maybe it is time to revisit it.

Based on your comments last year regarding the annual screen maintenance (wash with sugar soap one year, repaint the next) I do believe that it is in need of a repaint but it will have to wait until next season as we simply don't have the finances at the moment. The lamp is running at about 72% so there is room to increase the brightness if necessary. It still has 300 hours so it will easily last the season.

Posted by Lindsay Morris (Member # 1430) on 09-21-2016, 06:26 PM:

I Chose that version of 4K lamp as it had higher lumen output to get the best possible pix for 3D.
Trade off is life is only 600 hours so if you have now just clocked up 300 hours then possibly 2 seasons are left in it.

The other 4K lamp offered had less lumens but MORE run time hours which if I recall correctly was something like 1500 hours.

Better to stick with a 4K lamp as at 3K you are running the lamp @almost 2900 watts...so almost full bore & thus little room to tweak for lamp ageing. There was not a lot of price difference which is balanced out by more consistent screen light as the lamp approaches warranty change out time. To my way of thinking a 3K lamp would be struggling to keep the screen light acceptable as the 1000 hour mark came along so if one had to change it well before warranty time its simply false economy....all for a couple of hundred bucks.

The Koorda DI 1600 has a 4K lamp installed running at 3K & the screen light is very good as compared to how they struggled with carbon arcs & long focal length lens in the 35mm days. Their lamp will last years running their monthly double bill sessions.
Must pop open that lamphouse & check their yoke in case that one has also worked loose ..IF that is the cause. Their machine has had 3 or 4 over temp shutdowns since being installed as they had gotten going before the bio renovations were fully completed so the bio A/C unit was struggling on hot nights after 45C days. Quite possible that high operating temps & then very cold nights can make things not quite done up snug loosen off & move.
[uhoh]

Digital has made their shows so much better & the 2 ladies that now run it would never have coped with 2 changeover machines & carbon arcs [Smile]

Posted by Steve Wilson (Member # 2411) on 10-13-2016, 11:49 AM:

When we set up my projector, the install guys did put in a long 1500 hour Plusrite 4k bulb! A few months later, I wanted more light, so I went with the 650 hour high output Plusrite bulb and the light increase was quite a bit and I was more happy with the light output so far. I would rather pay a bit more over time and have a brighter light on my screen. My 1600 projector is just a tad bit small for my 67 foot screen, however, I am happy with the new high output bulb. This High Output bulb is actually the bulb which NEC specs recommended for this lamp-house over the 1500 hr bulb.
*
*

Posted by Steve Wilson (Member # 2411) on 10-14-2016, 01:17 PM:

Has anyone tried to run this Test File on any of the NEC Series One Projectors. My projector was manufactured at the same time these specs came on online in 2009. My projector was manufactured and sold sometime in early 2010? I have not tried the test file. Do any of the techs on here know the possibility that these files will work on these NEC series one projectors?? Or if there is an update to fix such problems if not? Thanks

What is SMPTE?

While SMPTE was in the process of developing standards, the industry utilized an interim packaging format known as the “Interop” format. It was understood that the industry would transition to a SMPTE-DCP packaging format once those SMPTE standards were finalized and published. These standards were published in 2009 and software that supports those standards has been available for several years. Additional updates have been released that fixed various bugs that prevented proper playback of SMPTE compliant content.

We will be providing all locations with the SMPTE format on Keeping Up With the Joneses. Please let us know ASAP if any of your locations are not SMPTE ready or if you would like a test key to verify that your location is ready. Please forward this to someone else in your operations if this is not something you have an answer for. We don’t want any dark houses next week.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 10-14-2016, 01:33 PM:

LOL... SMPTE! And speaking of the SMPTE standards that were to be implemented this year... What the hell happened to those? I am still seeing mostly just IOP versions on nearly every hard drive that I touch.

Mark

Posted by Steve Wilson (Member # 2411) on 10-14-2016, 02:18 PM:

Mark, I am told that those getting content from Satellite, they are all the new standard. Those receiving hard drives are still the old standard

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 10-14-2016, 02:43 PM:

The IOP vs. SMPTE compatibility thing is more a matter of the server or TMS than that of the projector. What they are circulating now within DCDC satellite network is a format that has been tested thoroughly against various servers, but with their more recent software versions. As it turns out, the result is more towards who is still running outdated software vs. up-to-date.
If your server is on current software, you don't have to worry.

ISDCF has more info on it.

http://isdcf.com/t/SMPTE-DCP-Tests/

SMPTE is coming slowly, but it definitely is coming now. They are choosing electronic distribution networks for testing because there is a stronger feedback loop for problems.

Series 1 or non-DCI compliant series II projectors may turn out problematic if these force you to run older software on your server which MAY not be compliant with the agreed-upon SMPTE test format.

- Carsten

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 10-14-2016, 03:35 PM:

I also notice that, in DCP-o-matic,one has the option to choose either IOP or SMPTE when creating a DCP.

I'm using SMPTE in my DCP productions.

Looks like using this setting was programmed as a default setting after software install even with the newest revisions that arrive in notices.

-Monte

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 10-14-2016, 05:40 PM:

Carl reverted this to IOP just recently, basically because SMPTE is not yet in widespread use.

SMPTE is not a monolithic fixed format, but offers various packaging options. No server currently supports the full feature set. Instead, for now they chose a 'lowest common denominator' feature set, which works on all servers.
Which is what they are delivering through DCDC oder broadband delivery in europe now.

Previous versions of DCP-o-matic did not create this format to full extent. While it worked on most/all servers, it failed some formal QC. Carl fixed this, but reverted the standard wrapping method back to IOP. But this will probably change to SMPTE again within the next one or two years, depending on how SMPTE usage will develop.

ATMOS and HFR DCPs have to be in SMPTE format, as they rely on features only available in SMPTE wrapping.

If both IOP and SMPTE works on your systems, you'll be fine using either.

- Carsten

Posted by Cameron Glendinning (Member # 3516) on 10-14-2016, 07:15 PM:

I too have a NEC 1600, bought 2nd hand from the same Australian cinema supplier as above. One of its first jobs was a temporary install for a small film festival held at Parramatta, a suburb in Sydney, in an 800 seat theater. Happy to say that it ran all content supplied including SMPTE and 25 fps, I heard that there were issues interstate and the cinema location could not play all the films via dcp and dvd's were occasionally used.

I mostly use this projector outdoors with a 9m/ 30ft wide 2.1 ratio inflatable screen and have just installed a Chinese made, 2 000 w Plusrite bulb, claiming up to 9600 lumens and a 2400 hours warranty. The 2D results really exceeded my expectations and provides a very good result outdoors, even with ambient light. Aligning the bulb was pretty easy after watching a video found on youtube a few times.

I have not used it yet with 3D and I doubt it will ever be required, I do have a Panastereo 3D system with active shutter glasses and a budget for a bigger bulb if required. I imagine that the 2K bulb and the 3D results should be pretty good on my 6m indoor scope screen, which is a slightly more probable rental situation.

Posted by Steve Wilson (Member # 2411) on 10-19-2016, 05:28 PM:

I have a 2010 NEC 1600 A plus a GDC Server. I loaded the SMPTE Test file. It created a TEST category with the file in it. The problem I ran into was a Red X was in front of the file, the same RED X that is in front on Feature movie which needs a key to get rid of the X and to allow the movie file to play. Does anyone have any ideas of what the problem is?

Posted by Stephan Shelley (Member # 8587) on 10-19-2016, 07:16 PM:

You should check with GDC about what is the version of software you can run that supports the SMPTE packages and work with your series 1 projector. There may be issues with newer software and the interface board model in the projector. You may have have to replace the interface board to upgrade the server software to use SMPTE packages.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 10-20-2016, 01:16 AM:

Is your server on 8.01 software? Without it, you are not going to support SMPTE packages. Does your 1600 have a GORE board or at least a type IV TI interface board...though a type 3 should also work ( you need one that supports TLS link encryption).

Note if you do upgrade to 8.01, be sure to have the document that describes how to do it and read through it first. You'll need t add an aditional Ethernet cable for the security manager (Mediablock) and assigna a new IP address. There is a specific procedure for doing the update.

Posted by Steve Wilson (Member # 2411) on 10-21-2016, 02:21 AM:

A close friend sent to me the special SMPTE Trailer: "How to be Single", the file was sent out back last January to i guess to most multiplex theaters to test with. I called Technicolor and there has to be a key to run the file as per the instructions. Why, I have no idea!? So, tonight at 1 a.m. in the morning, I loaded everything up and ran the trailer! All went and played just like everything else has in the past. So, I guess we are for the moment SMPTE capable. I would assume and was also told by Technicolor that the test files refereed to here on the official site, must also have to have keys in order to run. I would have thought somebody on here would have known that info already??

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 10-21-2016, 02:27 AM:

What does that Security Manager thing actually secure, anyway? It takes what seems to be a really long time to "Attempt to connect" every time the server is rebooted and I've always wondered what it's doing other than just holding things up.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 10-21-2016, 06:09 AM:

Steve - the reason why they secure special trailers that way is that they want to have feedback, and they don't want special DCPs to circulate in the wild and cause problems without them knowing. That's the reason why they only started to publish them in closed environments like the DCDC. I'm not sure if you are safe, because this was one of the first test releases. What is your server, and what software is it running? Because, basically, SMPTE is more server than projector related.

- Carsten

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 10-21-2016, 09:45 AM:

Frank,

The security manager (SM) is required in all DCinema environments as per DCI. The SM is typically the mediablock, either internal or integrated. There is also another SM for HDSDI systems with the "Enigma" boards...either SM can shut the system down.

So the 3-minute wait you see on boot up (and it typically connects within a minute of seeing the 3 minute warning) is just the mediablock booting up and then talking with the rest of the server via its Ethernet port. If it was an IMB system, it would be the IMB itself.

The SM's job also is at show-start to check licenses and not show anything that isn't properly licensed to show (hence when you press play or the scheduler does, it does that last minute check). Note, all of the HDSDI systems do that. Dolby, which took the longest, by far, to "Checking Licenses" has effectively sped it up by performing the check when the show is selected so it is ready to play at show start. It can take a Dolby CAT862 upwards of a minute to check licenses as compared to the few seconds it takes GDC or Doremi.

Posted by Steve Wilson (Member # 2411) on 10-21-2016, 06:10 PM:

Thanks for the Reply's guys! I am trying to get a more up to date movie or trailer file to play with the latest changes from Technicolor.

Posted by Manny Montes (Member # 5639) on 10-23-2016, 03:47 AM:

The only issue I have with SMPTE is that sony projectors/servers need to "verify" the content once before it can be screened, this is a manual process and is a pain.

Posted by Sascha F. Roll (Member # 9043) on 10-23-2016, 07:30 AM:

If it's a manual process for you then you're not on the latest software.
Also what you said is only necessary for the LMT-200/300 series, the XCT-S19 does it automatically.