Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Merging to Satellite

This is topic Merging to Satellite in forum Digital Cinema Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Christopher Perkins (Member # 8917) on 06-24-2016, 03:38 PM:

So I have recently found out about satellite content. We are looking to merge. How ever I am not having any luck finding LMS/TMS. Could anyone give me any suggestions on who we should go through? We have Christie Digital projectors.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 06-25-2016, 07:16 AM:

I don't see any straight relation between satellite content and TMS/LMS. Satellite feed for you should be DCDC:

http://www.dcdcdistribution.com/

TMS/LMS there are plenty. Projectors are more or less irrelevant for TMS/LMS choice. What servers do you operate?

- Carsten

Posted by Tim Sherman (Member # 569) on 06-25-2016, 09:40 AM:

you technically don't need a LMS/TMS to use satellite. If you don't have one you can simply FTP from each screen server directly to the satellite server and ingest through a media network. Currently how I am doing it. Don't really need a LMS for theatres with only a couple screens.

Posted by Christopher Perkins (Member # 8917) on 06-25-2016, 09:42 PM:

Well and that is what DCDC told me. But Christie NOC insist that there is no possible way for use to do that. Our systems are set up with a IMB with each projector. They are stand alone systems. Do you have any suggestions on how we could make this possible? When we make a movie change every week we have to take the physical hard drive and ingest them into the projector individual. So I am not entirely sure on how we can set this up.

Posted by Stephan Shelley (Member # 8587) on 06-25-2016, 11:01 PM:

Are you currently able to transfer content between servers? If so then you just add the satellite server to the content network and transfer it just like you do between servers.

Posted by Leslie Hartmier (Member # 7053) on 06-26-2016, 01:18 AM:

If you are on the Christie NOC, it is more than just possible - each of our locations that are on the Christie NOC has an entire set of IP addresses (and ports on the management and media switches) reserved for satellite delivery.

Where you see the words 'LMS' in my message, simply think of it as being in the main network rack (where the management switch, media switch, patch panel and proxy server are), not at each house switch (which doesn't know anything about satellite, nor does it need to). It does not mean that you HAVE to have an LMS or a TMS.

As an example:

on our switches, the IRD ports on the media and management switches are both ports 13 (IRD 2) and 15 (IRD 1), CineLive ports for both management and media switches are port 11 (eth1 is management, and eth0 is media), and VSAT (Management switch only) is on port 19 - so, if you are on the Christie NOC with the hardware they supply, the hardware is set up for satellite delivery. I confess that there is no information on where the CineCaster Satellite Server ports are on the management switch, but the NOC location documentation includes the IP addresses for both eth0 and BMC (10.16.x.24 and 10.16.x.25, respectively), so they must have some idea for that.

As for the IP addresses for each satellite device, again, the NOC documentation that the people who installed your systems would have received will list all of the satellite-specific IP addresses for LMS management network, LMS media network, and for setting up the satellite network on the hardware from DCDC.

Like others have said, you do not need to have an LMS or a TMS to use satellite delivery (although if you wanted one, CineDigital Manager is the one we use, and there's a free version if you have only one or two auditoriums - you have to renew the license annually, but it remains free.)

I am uncertain why the NOC would tell you that it was impossible, since if the NOC can see you, you have the right hardware to have satellite delivery.

Although, what do you mean 'stand alone?' If there is NO network other than the one connecting the projector, content server/IMS, the sound system (if you are using that - for example, a Digital to Analog converter, or an ethernet-capable audio processor), and anything else that is ONLY for one specific auditorium, then how can the NOC see your stuff? If there is no other network than the house networks, one would need to be set up.

Other than all the gobbledy-gook I just uttered, if the hardware is NOT provided by Christie NOC, as Stephan stated, it should be a pretty simple matter of adding it to your content/media network, and then, as Tim put it, you can just set up FTP to the satellite server and ingest from there.

If your hardware IS from Christie NOC, then they MAY have to open the ports on the LMS switches (they should be open, mind you), at which point, again, you should be able to FTP to the satellite content repository.

Sure, if the satellite system did not permit access to and from the content servers, and only pushed content to an LMS or TMS, that would complicate matters, but I should think that DCDC would have more of an idea as to what is and is not possible with their stuff.

Sorry if I just did more to confuse the issue, but it makes sense in my head. Ask questions, and I'm sure there are plenty of us on this forum who can help clarify.

Leslie

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 06-26-2016, 07:02 AM:

I think the key here is if they have a media network at all. The only reason to manually move drives between theatres is if they don't.

IF you have a media network (and you can move content between theatres on that network), then you can also add DCDC to that network and merely point your servers to its IP and using the provided user/password, you'll see a directory on the DCDC server with all of the content they want you to see (subscribed for).

Honestly, I'd set up a media network (even for only 2 screens) if for no other reason than to transfer content between the theatres. It is almost always faster to FTP content than ingest it.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 06-26-2016, 11:56 AM:

quote: Steve Guttag
I think the key here is if they have a media network at all. The only reason to manually move drives between theatres is if they don't.

Over 10,000 posts and finally an incorrect statement? Am I dreaming??? [Razz]

A media network is not required to transfer content (screen to screen or satellite/DCDC). Managed switches may make that more difficult if they are not configured for it, but it can still be done.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 06-26-2016, 05:18 PM:

Without a media network, some servers only give you a 100-baseT NIC so your media transfers are going to be VERY slow. Furthermore, you run the risk of communication problems between the server and the projector (seen it, even on a Dolby DSS server) if that one and only NIC is busy moving the movies around while trying to also talk with the projector.

I stand behind my statement of having two networks if you plan to move media on one of them. Heck with the original Dolby scheme, you have screen count + 1 networks!

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 06-26-2016, 09:46 PM:

Well it seems Christopher does not have ANY network connection/media between his servers/IMBs. That would be the first thing to cater for. I can only assume they use all Christie IMB-S2.

- Carsten

Posted by Stephan Shelley (Member # 8587) on 06-29-2016, 07:58 PM:

It is possible to set up a media network with a Christie S2 IMB. Have done it to transfer content with Doremi Showvaults.

Posted by Christopher Perkins (Member # 8917) on 04-17-2017, 09:43 PM:

Sorry for the delay of responding. What I mean when I say "stand alone" These projectors are not connected to a central server. These projectors have their own ip address. In order for me to ingest content into a projector, I have to go to the projector and plug the hard drive into the projector. I can not move movie content one projector to the next.

Now as far as setting up a media server. How would I do that? Can a Mac OS X host the media server? If not how would I do this with a windows. Also how would I do this with a mac if possible.

I am interested in FTP as well. I would like to have a FTP server for the projector to be able to update Keys for the movies. Any suggestions?

Christie has the network hooked up through a firewall. So i am not exactly sure if this is possible.

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 04-18-2017, 05:22 AM:

You don't need much. All servers have two network ports (minimum). You need to configure the servers with the second unused port on a new network segment, often the same as the local device network with one number different (usually octet 2). Then connect all the servers to a 1000bT switch. Some more configuration to set up transfer source addresses for the other servers and the satellite storage. No LMS/TMS is required to do the transfers manually, they just automate the drudgery.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 04-18-2017, 06:37 AM:

Christopher - you need to get a hand on a network topology scheme. Normally the company who set everything up for you should have handed out a poster or file describing all the clients/IP addresses in your system. You write: 'There is no connection between our servers', and at the same time 'Christie has the network hooked up through a firewall'. So, IS there a network, or not? I can not believe you are NOCed without a network between all your machines, it wouldn't make sense to be under a NOC without your machines being connected. You need to educate yourself or hire someone who is able to see through.

The DCDC appliance is a fileserver on it's own and would be sufficient to distribute content received by satellite to your servers.

If Christie NOC is BS'ing you, I'd suggest you contact DCDC and ask them for company/tech contacts that are able to set the DCDC receiver/server up at your location. They will see through.

- Carsten

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 04-19-2017, 06:10 PM:

Okey, my turn on this topic being a newbie with this:

Found out that our 15plex is rapidly approaching the use of the digital cinema dist coalition and wonder how this all works.

Thus, I need a little help, a primer so to say, on this with hearing that a LMS/TMS is no longer needed.

I know that REG uses DCDC, but they use a device that collects the downloaded files and what is done afterwards is what I don't know anything about the operation.

Thx for the help - Monte

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 04-19-2017, 08:55 PM:

Whether or not you need or want a TMS has nothing to do with whether you use DCDC. DCDC does not replace your TMS. The folks responding to Christopher are simply saying that a TMS is not required to use DCDC. If you have one, it will not go away when you add DCDC. The DCDC server simply becomes another content source for your TMS. So instead of plugging a hard drive into your TMS server and point the TMS software to that location, you'll navigate to the DCDC source to ingest. (It might even be simpler than that and DCDC content will automatically show up in your library, depending on what TMS you have and how it is configured.) Basically, if you already have a TMS, not much will change for you when switching to DCDC.

Hope that helps.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 04-20-2017, 04:27 AM:

Thx, Ken for the info.

Keys included on this DCDC service?

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 04-20-2017, 10:58 AM:

Not to my knowledge. Your method of key delivery shouldn't change.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 04-20-2017, 12:09 PM:

Our DCDC sites do not have KDMs (too bad).

As for integration. DCDC has their "Kencast" server that becomes their storage tank for the movies/trailers/whatnot.

If you don't have a TMS, then you merely set up and FTP pull from your servers to pull the content.

If you do have a TMS, then you set up the TMS to look at it for again, an FTP source. With some TMS systems, you can have be automatically ingest everything that the Kencast server gets but you best have enough storage on your LMS to have EVERYTHING and every version. As I recall, the DCDC server holds content for about 6-weeks after release and then it deletes to make room for new content.

Posted by Tim Sherman (Member # 569) on 04-20-2017, 01:36 PM:

Steve you would be correct. Also KDMs still come the same way they always have.

Main thing I don't like at least with Doremi servers is that it will not break down the content type by category. So when you FTP from a doremi into the DCDC Kencast it pulls up one list with everything. All features ratings trailers in one list. So that means you have to scroll through about 400 titles to find the one you are looking for. This is not the fault of DCDC just how doremi does their ingest window.

Since I am only 2 screens here, I use Cinedigital manager to ingest from the Kencast to my servers. It will seperate the content into the different categories.

Posted by Christopher Perkins (Member # 8917) on 04-20-2017, 02:06 PM:

Yes I do need to educate myself. That is why I am on here learning new things. This why I am on this site and asking questions so I can learn from other people. Yes the projectors are on a network. Protected by a firewall. I would think that would be obvious considering there is a firewall involved.

"There is no connection between our servers". My apologies that I wasn't exact. What I meant these projectors have their own IMB. Which the movies content is stored.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 04-20-2017, 02:06 PM:

We have the GDC TMS, yet is there an option to have content, that has been pulled from the Kencast to LMS, where the location POS system can tell each server to pull what content needed per each house, or is that is something that is still in the works where we're still doing manual pulls from the LMS via the TMS commands?

quote: Christopher Perkins
What I meant these projectors have their own IMB. Which the movies content is stored.

Or, storage drives, like the GDC PSD-3000 units, unless you have either the Barco ICMP, or Sony own IMB system..?

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 04-20-2017, 03:32 PM:

No offence, Christopher. I was just insisting so you clear up some things. If you go on installing the DCDC client, there is probably little additional work needed to enable central ingest, so you don't have to carry around distribution drives between your systems. How many projectors are in operation at your site?

A firewall is no issue for DCDC integration, it isolates your internal network against the external/WAN. The Kencast clients will be installed within your internal network or on an additional internal content network, so it is accessible from all your Christie IMS's/NAS devices.

Here is a tutorial document from Christie on network integration - you may not understand everything right from the start, but it may help. Replace the TMS/LMS symbol in these diagrams with the DCDC kencast server. It is then 'just' an LMS (library), without the control/scheduling aspects of a TMS.

https://www.christiedigital.com/SupportDocs/Anonymous/020-200258-02-Christie-BUL-INFO-IMB-Best-Practices.pdf

Interesting question is, how do you find a company that is able to set everything up, train you, and doesn't interfere with Christie's NOC.

Which company installed your projector network initially, was that Christie as well? Hard to believe they did not set up and/or train you on a content network.

- Carsten

Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 04-20-2017, 03:34 PM:

We are getting ready to install DCDC at our theatre as well. We have two separate projection rooms on opposite sides of the building. Our servers are GDC SX2000AR's with the internal media block in the side of the projector. We've always been able to transfer content from one server to the other, via a Cat 6 cable that physically runs from the back of one server to the back of the other one. Adding in the satellite threw a little kink in the mix.

What I ended up doing was to install a new "media network" rack on the wall in my Screen 2 projection booth. That network rack has a 16 port gigabit switch that the servers now run to and also has a 12 TB NAS for ads, policy trailer back ups, etc. I installed a Cat6 network jack on the wall in the booth where there new Kencast server will sit and that jack ties in to the gigabit switch in the rack on the wall. Once the Kencast rack gets here, we should be able to just add it to the servers as another ingest point.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 04-21-2017, 01:46 PM:

Got some owners interested. What would be the cost from DCDC, and is this service a lease, or a purchase deal?

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 04-21-2017, 03:50 PM:

As far as I know, it's free for the cinema. The studios pay.

http://kencast.com/products/digital-cinema/edgespan-3ru-cinema-pro/

- Carsten

Posted by Rick Cohen (Member # 6140) on 04-21-2017, 04:30 PM:

There is no upfront cost to join DCDC. There is a delivery cost per title, which is approximately half of what Deluxe charges for delivery and return for a hard drive. DCDC provides the satellite dish, server, and installation. From the time you sign your paperwork, it should take 6-8 weeks to get up and running. We signed our contracts in mid January, and received our first features on March 24. The process was completely painless. We do not use a TMS, as all five of our screens are networked, and we have have a total of 28 TB of combined storage space between all of the ShowVault servers. We may add an additional NAS server for additional storage space in the future if necessary. It is a relief to not have to deal with hard drives anymore.

Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 04-21-2017, 05:30 PM:

If your building is leased, you may have an issue with getting the satellite installed on the roof. That would possibly be an upfront cost as landlords don't usually like their tenants poking holes in the roof without paying for it.