Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Barco 10S Vs Christie Solaria One

This is topic Barco 10S Vs Christie Solaria One in forum Digital Cinema Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Andrew Thomas (Member # 7000) on 08-01-2016, 10:51 PM:

So, we are helping an older couple try and save their theater and one of the things I've noticed is that the image coming out of these Barco 10S units is absolutely garbage. Our Solaria Ones, which seemingly should have similar image quality, are way worse in black level, way worse on the colors, and just have an overall washed out image. Honestly, the 19B and 23B units in here also look worse than our Solaria Ones and a much worse than our CP4220, and in the same ways that the 10S appear. Poor black level, poor contract, poor color, and just an overall washed out appearance. I've actually never seen D-cinema look so bad.

One friend told me that the lens on our 10S units is a real nightmare (it's the 1.2-1.7 lens), but these image issues are so bad that I feel like there must be something settings wise that is out of whack. I'm pretty sure the owners had a non-Cinema installer put this stuff in.

Any ideas on things I could tinker with myself?

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 08-02-2016, 06:27 AM:

First things first. Try putting up a test pattern like "Framing_uncorrected" and look at the colors and contrast. Using a test pattern will typically take a lot of the "processing" out of the image so you can see what is the projector and what is the installation "quality."

The S2K projectors ARE going to look worse in the contrast department (as are the 4K stuff...same problem).

That said, the colors should still seem very vibrant if set up properly.

Make sure the projector isn't filling up with dirt...start with pulling the lens out and looking at the inlet pupil. If it is dust covered, you won't have good contrast and typically a dull picture. And if that area is dusty then start looking at the output of the light engine and then the input and the integrating rod.

I've put in a LOT of 19Bs and 23Bs...their image should appear excellent and compare favorably to the Christie CP2200/CP4220. If you are not seeing that, then something is up and don't forget about the screen and port glass in all of this.

One thing the 10S has over the Solaria 1/1+ that even the most diehard Christie fans will have to admit, it doesn't have the IMBS2. While that doesn't have a direct impact on the image other than being able to play the movie every night.

Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 08-02-2016, 01:52 PM:

quote: Steve Guttag
being able to play the movie every night.

If you're lucky! [Razz]

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 08-02-2016, 04:05 PM:

Interesting that 19 and 23B units posted having bad images, for my 23B units are giving out crisp and clear images.

Looks like these units aren't being operated to their full capacities on the user end.

-Monte

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 08-02-2016, 06:50 PM:

Speaking of IMBS2, why has Christie started calling them CMB's? We've got another coming in (it's our 5th or 6th) and the invoice now lists it as CMB. I asked the Customer Service guy and he didn't know.

Posted by Andrew Thomas (Member # 7000) on 08-04-2016, 01:45 PM:

I think the best way I can describe what the images look like is that everything, especially bright portions of the image, "glow". So the image is both washed out and lacking in sharpness. This occurs more strongly on the 10S units, but is also present on the 19B/23Bs.

Posted by Ian Freer (Member # 1940) on 08-04-2016, 04:01 PM:

I've once seen something similar and it turned out to be a pretty serious coating of very fine dust on the Light Engine/prism surfaces. This was on a 23B from memory.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 08-04-2016, 04:45 PM:

The 10S also suffers from the same issue. Take the lens out and look at lens back surface and prism exit surface with a torch. Barco has a retrofit kit for the lens mount to prevent dirt getting in there.

- Carsten

Posted by Andrew Thomas (Member # 7000) on 08-04-2016, 08:43 PM:

Is that something that can be cleaned? If so, best to just have a reputable tech do it or can I handle that myself?

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 08-05-2016, 02:28 AM:

quote: Carsten Kurz
Barco has a retrofit kit for the lens mount to prevent dirt getting in there

Hi Carsten,

Do you have an R number for that? Is that for S models only or for all Barco machines?

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 08-05-2016, 05:43 AM:

I have only seen it for S and E models. It's a thin rubber seal around the lens mount.

Barco calls it 'Inner Dust Rubber Kit'. There is a section in the Barco manuals explaining that this should be factory installed since the end of 2015, but earlier models need to have it retrofitted.

- Carsten

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 08-05-2016, 05:57 AM:

Thanks Carsten, I'll have a look.

I do believe that most of the dust is coming from poor gasket design on the main filter though. Lens mount must be sealed though, so any improvement on this department is welcome!

I must say Barco should really learn from Christie on this!

Found it. Are they saying that early S machines did not have that rubber seal at all??? I thought it was a just minor gasket!

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 08-05-2016, 06:50 AM:

I believe the part number you are looking for is: R5001495K

Note, installing this requires pulling the lens mount apart so it isn't for the faint of heart and one has to be able to perform the Scheimpflug again.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 08-05-2016, 08:13 AM:

Marco - there have been a few discussions here around 10S/8S accumulating loads of dust on the lens back surface and prism exit. So I guess there is also a bad airflow adding to it.

- Carsten

Posted by Andrew Thomas (Member # 7000) on 08-05-2016, 05:29 PM:

Not to nag, but is the cleaning process something a fairly savvy user be able to do, or is this really more the realm of an experienced tech? (Like, Film-Tech's office is literally 2 minutes around the corner!)

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 08-05-2016, 06:44 PM:

Carsten,
I'm very aware of the issue discussed but if early machines didn't have the gasket, it's just plain wrong!
I shall double check on some S I've seen (horribly dusty) if the gasket was there but on the ones I saw the dust was coming from the main filter - I reckon.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 08-06-2016, 03:58 AM:

Andrew - read this thread:

http://www.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/f16/t002497/p3.html

Depending on where the dirt sits, you can do some cleaning yourself. However, if these projectors never received any maintenance, I would advise to call an experienced tech to do a full cleaning.

Checking the lens back surface and exit prism for dirt is very easy, you just need to unmount the lens and use a strong torch.

- Carsten

Posted by Andrew Thomas (Member # 7000) on 08-07-2016, 08:25 PM:

Best method for dirt removal?