quote: Steve Guttag

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Also, has anyone found a place that will take a Barco Enigma and reload a certificate and render it functional again (including from a simple battery decay)? NEC will get them "fixed" and I believe Christie will as well but Barco doesn't "fix" boards that are out of warranty (just the ones that are in warranty).

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quote: Dave Macaulay

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That's weird. Probably the ROHS crap biting again...

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quote: Steve Guttag

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One great thing about F-T is the number of participants. One can get a MUCH greater feel for what is happening in the world rather than in their narrow corner of it. By throwing this one out there, I can get the sense that this is NOT a trend since nobody has had similar issues (at least nobody has come forward yet to say they have had the same thing).

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What happened to "everyone's entitled to my opinion?" Unsolicited advice comes with the package.
 

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Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 08-11-2016, 12:12 AM:
 
When I was working for the security department of a fairly large hotel, we installed alarms on several doors throughout the building. (Liquor storage rooms, mostly... for obvious reasons.)

Whenever we bugged a door, we used a DPDT reed switch with pull-up resistors. The theory was two-fold: First, this arrangement made it impossible (or more difficult) to cut the wires or short them together to defeat the alarm. Second, the pull-up resistor kept the input to the alarm controller from floating, thereby making it more reliable.

Isn't there some similar kind of arrangement in the tamper switches on the Enigma boards?

If I was designing such a system, I would try to do it that way.
 

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Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 08-11-2016, 02:42 AM:
 
Most wired alarm systems from the analog type actually use resistor loops, so that tampering with the wires or switches will produce current variations on that line. You can build in any sort of sensivity that way.

But as Harold pointed out, this increases current consumption significantly on a device whose security function relies on a tiny button cell.

We will probably never know wether TI designed the Enigmas carefully the way Harold describes it for the USL product.

- Carsten
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 08-11-2016, 08:40 AM:
 
Randy, I'd say that, in the case of Barco, Barco has taken a stance that I do not like of "if it is out of warranty, buy a new one." They won't fix anything except the light engine, if it is out of warranty. Sure, when they are on the hook for the replacement cost, they want the old one back and they offer "refurbished" units (implying they DO fix them). That and not breaking down large assemblies into purchasable parts enough are my biggest beefs with Barco.

If this was an NEC Enigma (and I've had one of them die like this too), NEC WILL offer a repair option, including for a simple battery dying because it wasn't charged. Barco will not.

We don't know exactly what caused the failure but I'm inclined to believe it was the electromechanical switch.

As for design flaw...the whole LD/Enigma thing in and of itself is a design flaw. The paranoia with respect to cinema EQUIPMENT being the source of product theft is just that. Remember, the servers are STILL watermarking all of the content (picture and sound). How many lost shows have happened due to security procedures (including the silly KDMs, even for content in home release!).

Furthermore, the Enigma is the same module for Barco, Christie and NEC but you can't transpose the (I've tried) because the login lists (and even the upgrade login varies between Barco and the other two). I'd much rather stock one or two of them and make them whatever brand it needs to work in rather than have to deal with three identical things that differ only in the passwords. There ought to be a script that will load in the appropriate login lists without giving away the store. But TI only seems to want to deal with the OEMs.
 

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Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 08-11-2016, 11:04 AM:
 
I understand what both of you are saying. I just feel pretty disappointed with the way that so many digital cinema equipment companies operate their businesses.

In this case: Microswitches that are doomed to fail because of poor design. Batteries that lose their charge and cause a device to permanently crash. That's unconscionably bad!

I'm not trying to act like a lawyer, here. I'm simply expressing myself... It seems to me that this is a product that is fundamentally flawed from the start and isn't fit for market.

What is the phrase? "Implied warranty of merchantability, is it?"

Like the Corvair... Unsafe at any speed!
 

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Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 08-11-2016, 01:54 PM:
 
I'm afraid we will see more of this shit happening in the future with the series-2 equipment aging. You can overcome some of these issues by retrofitting, e.g. transitioning from HD-SDI to IMB systems or switching to IMS's, but in any way, it will be expensive for those smaller houses. Someone really should kick TI's ass, they built so many bugs in their systems, which of course can happen with emerging technology, but the actual bad thing is: They give a shit about their responsibility.
Don't want to know how many cinemas had to pay big money for all those ICP and Enigma bugs and built-in-from-the-start time-bombs.

- Carsten
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 08-11-2016, 02:31 PM:
 
See now...I don't like any of the IMB options at the moment. I'm still installing HDSDI based systems (both GDC and Dolby/Doremi). We are putting in IMB (and even a couple of IMS systems) too but that isn't the preferred system, at the moment. As 4K becomes the predominate new system installation, that will be the necessity for the switch. Most of our IMB systems are indeed either 4K or 3D systems.
 

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Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 08-11-2016, 09:37 PM:
 
We all know the saying: A camel is just a horse that was designed by committee.

More and more, it seems that digital cinema is one such animal.
 

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Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 08-12-2016, 02:10 AM:
 
And there's no going back!

It's all quite maddening. All sorts of little problems where you blindly reinstall firmware, software based on somebody's advice because they have no better advice to give and pray it clears up an issue but no way to tell except time.

As this hardware is getting to the 10 year mark required by DCI, the increasing frequency of problems never allows a moment of peace. We've got perhaps 30 systems we're responsible for and yet it keeps us jumping. We have to charge for our services and yet I feel embarrassed to keep billing the customer when I truly don't know if I fixed it. For the first time in a long career I'm considering retirement as the stress of being on endless call for obscure issues is getting to me.
 

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Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 08-12-2016, 09:06 AM:
 
Sam,

You are truly the victim of the hurried move to digital everything.

There is no way to anticipate or to prevent the failure of a microscopic element in a very large landscape of components that live on a refined Silicon chip. Every little junction and diode or transistor offers a multitude of possibilities for failure. The entire system is a ticking bomb ready to explode and ruin your picture, distort the sound or simply stop operating.

For a projectionist that used to be nervous with a full house and two machines with Carbon Arc lights, I can very well understand your frustration.

The bridges are burned and film has been dealt a telling blow so here we are, helplessly waiting for the next junction or diode to fail.

I feel your pain.

KEN
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 08-12-2016, 09:16 AM:
 
It's all of this "security" that has created these problems. If there were just unencrypted files (like how 35mm prints were unencrypted), then 99% of these failures simply would not happen. All of these bugs are related to the security measures and Series 3 systems will only be far worse. There is no telling what sort of nonsense will be built into them, which is simply more things to fail.
 

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Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 08-12-2016, 09:35 AM:
 
I hate to think of myself as a Luddite but we're all victims of this technology. Brad is spot on about the large majority of the issues have to do with security.

I have not heard much about series 3. Are we talking Lasers gone wild melting the screen to a crisp? LOl
 

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Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 08-12-2016, 10:15 AM:
 
We're all just Beta Testers from now on.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-12-2016, 11:17 AM:
 
Amazingly, I have 335 systems to tend to and I feel like the Maytag man. I wish some huge number of systems would actually break down.

Mark
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 08-12-2016, 12:48 PM:
 
Uh huh...right. Just changed another mediablock and while changing lamps saw this one:





And both failures were from Mark's preferred brands! You've posted enough pictures of your dirty NECs that nobody is buying your Maytag repair man stories either.
 

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Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 08-12-2016, 04:27 PM:
 
No, I think that Mark has so few problems mostly because of the way he does his job and less because of the quality (or lack thereof) in the equipment.

He's very strict. He makes up his mind about the way things should be done and he takes no dissent. "My way or the highway," as the saying goes.

Many of us work (or have worked) for large corporations where that kind of autocratic behavior isn't tolerated. You can do that when you own your own business but, if you tried that kind of thing when you work for Cinemark (or others) you'd be out on your ass.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 08-12-2016, 06:02 PM:
 
Actually, quite a few of us have quite a bit of control over how the systems are put in.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-13-2016, 04:38 PM:
 
Well, considering that most of the locations I service get twice yearly maintainance with the exception of a few and many see me five or six times because of mainly sound issues or replacing screens and other normal maintainance I would say that I have no theater's except the NC-900 I posted earlier that have any existing problems. My customers also frequently replace air filters and all sites exhaust popcorn poppers outdoors. The stuff just isn't breaking folks.

In the last 6 years I've had...

Approximately three media block failures.

One strange acting xenon switcher that got replaced

One ballast board, and one lens driver board fail in different NC-900's.

I did replace a light engine because of some demolition work that got to be a little too violent for one NC-2000 light engine which developed about 30 stuck pixels, but can't blame that on anyone but the stupid contractor. That engine is now spare parts.

The digital stuff has been uber reliable overall.

I do repair - replace a lot of older QSC amplifiers.

Quite a few screens.

Still replacing speakers at sites.

Normal maintenance items now that equipment is getting older, fans batteries, etc. I have had to lightly clean two NC-2000 light engines. The light dump heatsink was plugged with fuzz.

I have replaced two DSS-100's recently, so thankfully all those are gone now and make great door stops.

Mark
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 08-13-2016, 04:49 PM:
 
So you make two service viists per year per projector? Didn't you say you had some 330 (give or take) systems? Just what are you doing on those calls, Mr Maytag man? The hours needed to do meaningful calls would keep you busy indeed.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-13-2016, 05:08 PM:
 
I wish! With the exception of a few locations you could eat off the booth floor so the equipment stays very clean. The sites with carpeting are the dirtiest of the lot. Sites that do get dirty fast change filters frequently.

I generally do updates on site if I visit them regularly and any other cleaning the staff doesn't do. Yes, I do quite a few updates remotely too. I also check the fans in the GDC's to make sure they are ok, but I have 95% IMB systems. I have changed a few sites filters on their GDC's.

I started replacing hard drives at 4 years which I usually do one at a time to preserve the existing data.

All TMS servers get removed, disassembled yearly and cleaned. Those racks also get cleaned. I update all those remotely

In projectors I remove and clean the cooling system components, especially the heat exchangers. Simply vacuuming them out doesn't get all the dust. I do the same with the projector LVPS. They are very tight between fins and tend to plug with dust that makes it through.

Amplifiers have to be removed from racks, taken apart and cleaned properly about every five or six years, input level pots cleaned with Caig, especially on the DCM's! The DCM's rectifier heat sink is angled and simply blowing air through the unit isn't gonna clean it.

Check system balance once a year, check system eq on the second visit. Check exhaust systems, etc. But need I continue? I imagine you do most of these sorts of general maintenance items too. And 98% of the time this is the sort of stuff I do.

Actual equipment failures I listed in the previous post may as well be non-existent. Lucky for me there haven't been any except one DSS-100 which I installed remotely with the help of a local IT guy. The stuff is so reliable that I decided to start dialysis a little early rather than put it off any longer and am just going to resume long distance traveling again after several months.

My Expedition has 258K on it since 2009 if you think I don't do much driving around...

Mark
 

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Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 08-15-2016, 09:38 PM:
 

quote: Kenneth Wuepper

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Every little junction and diode or transistor offers a multitude of
possibilities for failure. The entire system is a ticking bomb

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