Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Assembling a list of Hollywood approved Digital Equipment

This is topic Assembling a list of Hollywood approved Digital Equipment in forum Digital Cinema Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Justin West (Member # 920) on 09-21-2016, 05:02 PM:

While some manufactures are dropping support for their older models, they would rather a buyer not look at the used market for equipment; however, some of us are compelled to shop there. Once discontinued, information becomes scarce and working your way through the used market has pitfalls beyond lack of service or support. One of those includes the similarities of alternative market projectors (like for HOME theaters or concert venues) to the units made for commercial theatrical exhibition (at least in North America). Know what you are looking for or else you might end up with a nice projector but one that you cannot use. Referencing the DCI-approved list does not give an operator all the information he may need, because it does not include all projectors approved PRIOR to the establishment of the DCI standards. This information would be useful to a LOT of people, especially indie theatres and small-town market operators. For example: SONY's DCI-compliant models include the SRX-R220, SRX-R320, SRX-R320S, SRX-510
SRX-515...but I do not know what predecessor models may be OK to use (like an R105 or R110)? Can anyone advise on SONY? (Note: I am not asking for comments about their quality or reliability...please reserve that for another thread).

The DCI-compliant list, which is available at www.dcimovies.com , has all of Barco's DP2K and DP4K units listed but, understandably, does not mention Series 0 units like the DP90 or DP100...or the Series 1 units like the DP 1200, 1500, 2000, 3000 etc. Same goes for Christie CP2000 or XP2000 and so on. Besides NEC, there are also units that Hollywood allows from Cinemeccanica, Kinoton, and, even, Runco (some of these may be modified or rebadged Barco units). A used market is out there and it will eventually grow, so this knowledge will be no doubt useful to many in the biz as time passes. I seek to draw from the experience of the masses on Film-Tech! [Shrug]

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 09-22-2016, 05:55 AM:

No idea on Sony.
No idea on really early units like the console systems or DP90/100.
Series 1 projectors from all makers TI based projectors use the same "head" hardware and are OK if paired with certain older servers or - if the projector's TI interface card is compatible - with a newer server (unless the security restrictions are tightened).
Some really old cinema servers are obsolete and useless - Kodak for example.
There are unused and more restrictive security policies built into the DCP/KDM distribution model. These have not been invoked so far because of the number of older systems in use that would be shut out. The distributors can - any time they want - stop allowing less secure systems to play their movies. That would probably be server media blocks and projector interface cards that don't meet FIPS 140-2 level 3 requirements. Older Doremi servers can be upgraded to be fully secure (not cheap) and a secure Series 1 TI Interface board can be installed (also not cheap).
You can't tell what TI board is in a projector unless it's either powered up (and you know how to check) or you can open the card cage and see what type of card is installed.
Same with servers. If not powered, it's not always possible to tell which media block version is in there.

So a list of "Approved" projection equipment is problematic. A Christie CP2000-SB or Barco DP-3000 could be DCI compliant... or not. Servers, same thing.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 09-22-2016, 11:07 AM:

Sadly, many have already been hurt on the used dci market.

If you don't have a "guru" that you know to be honest and fully knowledgeable, you are much better off with new equipment.

You may be anyway financially with the market evolving as fast as it is. Consult your bookeeper/CPA to see how much money is saved with Capitol Depreciation. Could be 70% depending on your finances and you build trust with your local bank. You also get something with a little more lasting value.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 09-22-2016, 12:14 PM:

Very good points Louis! Just updating an older projector to DCI specs can be terribly expensive. Some older servers may not be upgradable...

Mark

Posted by Justin West (Member # 920) on 09-23-2016, 12:34 AM:

This is good discussion...on all points offered! Dave: Maybe "approved" is the wrong word to describe the model numbers I am seeking. How about more like a list of models that are actually in use in commercial theatrical exhibition in the USA? Not necessarily looking for "DCI-compliant" models, nor am I seeking guidance on upgrading older models to DCI-compliant status. Just trying to help used-market watchers differentiate between units that have been accepted by Hollywood in the past versus possibly similar looking and performing models (like high-end home theatre and large concert venue projectors) which never had and never will be acceptable for commercial theatre exhibition. For example, an early SONY projector, SRX-R110, had sister units of SRX-S110 and SRX-T110. They look the same, on the outside (and perform similarly, according to advertised specs) but I am not sure if one or any of these models have been or are still in use in commercial theatres. A SONY tech would know!

Louis and Mark, I hear you...it's just that some of the last theatres yet to have converted simply cannot justify the expense of a new projector. Additionally, I don't care how great a past loan customer you were with your bank, it is near impossible (especially for the littlest of little guys) to be able to borrow money for the purpose of buying a new projector. Knowing the bank president doesn't mean sh*t anymore (that is, if your bank is still local) and they're likely to deny your application as being too risky or else they'll legitimately do the math, too.

Rather than argue with anyone or beg for their sympathy over whether these poorest of the poor theatres can even justify their meager, pitiful existence in the world of domestic exhibition, I am really just wanting to lend a helping hand. Buyer must still beware...but we should still feel comfortable to share knowledge with those less fortunate...without judgement.

A Cinemeccanica series 1 unit is the CMC3-D2. It is no longer supported by the mfr/distributor. Are there any others?

RUNCO claimed to have one model for commercial cinemas. Is there a RUNCO expert who could comment on this?

Kinoton has a projector for same...is there a Kinoton tech who can tell us what that model is?

I am hoping that people are not hesitant to volunteer any info for fear of cracking some eggshells. I am not promoting, advocating, or endorsing the use or purchase of these machines by anyone. Furthermore, if someone has somehow gerry-rigged a prosumer unit or projector that was not intended for digital cinema use, and put it into operation in a booth at a commercial US theater, then that activity is unacceptable and I do not want that information shared. I hope I am making my point a little clearer. I thank all for your open discussion. [uhoh]