Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Barco Cinema Controller

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Posted by Harshitkumar Thakker (Member # 9719) on 11-04-2016, 03:25 PM:

Hello Everyone.

I've been visiting film-tech.com for years now and have found the information here extremely helpful.

We have roughly 40+ Barco Projectors in our Cinemas for the past 5 years+.

Over the last few months, though, we've had to replace 12+ Cinema Controller boards. It seems to stop working after an extended period of Power outage (we have UPS for the Projector) or after turning off the projector for cleaning, etc.

One of two things happen - Either the projector does not boot completely, i.e. the green light at the back keeps flashing Or the Network Communication fails, in which case, I can still login via serial connection, but there is an error about Link Decryptor no communication.

I wanted to find out if anyone has that happened, and if anyone knows how to prevent it from happening.

Also, has anyone been able to repair these? It just seems to me that, the flash memory is being corrupted.

Thank you in advance for your help.

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 11-04-2016, 03:32 PM:

With the green flashing tail light...I have had this happen due to there being some kind of glitch if you have something plugged into the DVI input. By disconnecting the input and rebooting it will normally boot completely up. We then just plug the input back in.

With the loss of communication, this happens if the IP address reverts back to default. You have to go back in and change it to the correct IP address. If it keeps dropping the IP after every power down, then the board will need to be replaced.

I have had both issues occur that I have listed above.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 11-05-2016, 05:27 AM:

One of those boards died on me during a routine power cycle and the green light kept flashing but the projector would not boot up.
I have a feeling those boards may just need the firmware re-flashed but who knows.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 11-05-2016, 09:16 AM:

It should have been pointed out to you by Barco or your installer, but did you think about backup batteries? A lot of boards in DLP Projectors have backup batteries or rechargable batteries/goldcaps. Not running these systems for a longer period may leave them depleted. I remember some NEC controllers suffering from serious brain damage after their batteries died with a specific firmware version. That could, however be fixed by installing a software update early enough, or, after it happened, by NEC at the factory. So many systems dying around the same time...?

- Carsten

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 11-05-2016, 10:01 AM:

Hi Carsten
There are no batteries I am aware of in a Barco - besides the ICP one.

Posted by Harold Hallikainen (Member # 5405) on 11-05-2016, 12:34 PM:

Speaking of batteries... On the various systems out there, is the battery that powers the security circuitry field replaceable or soldered in? I've wondered about the durability of battery holders over many years. I know that switch and relay contacts have problems with very low currents. Similarly, telephone lines have a DC "sealing current" that keeps splices from failing. On connectors, I've used gold on gold contacts if the current is very low. But, coin cell holders and coin cells typically do not gold contacts.

So, the question is, does the equipment you work on have a replaceable coin cell, or is it soldered in?

Thanks!

Harold

Posted by Gavin Lewarne (Member # 5397) on 11-05-2016, 01:08 PM:

Marco, there is a CR2032 cell on the CCB boards.

Ive had many many issues with CCB boards on my single projector, its been replaced under warranty upwards of 10 times over the last few years. Ive had all sorts of weird sporadic faults that don't make sense, and 99% of the time once DcineX send me a new CCB problem is resolved.

Ive got the board replace, remarriage, reflash, reprogram and Dallas key reset process down to a T now

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 11-05-2016, 02:23 PM:

I have seen a few replacement manuals with different solutions. Some have soldered in rechargable Li cells. Some use 'classic' button cell holders/clamps. Special issues left aside, I guess that the contacts and cells are produced to stay in good shape, if ordered from quality manufacturers.

Some manufacturers use pairs of cells to be exhanged one by one to keep the circuit powered during exchange. Some use a rechargable cell or supercap in addition to a battery to buffer the circuit while that battery is exchanged. That buffer-cell may need a considerable time to reach a charge level safe for battery exchange. Some exchange operations simply fail even if the instructions are followed. A backup-backup battery may be dead without the user seeing an indication, because the primary cell is still okay.

I have seen corrosion on cheap button cells. I guess not much humidity will set in electronic equipment powered regularly. Some manufacturer recommend to use gloves during battery change, and, of course, non-conducting tips to peel out the cells of their holders.

Planned vs. unplanned obsolescence is an interesting topic I'd like to see discussed. Soldered batteries/sealed circuit boards, contact corrosion in also sorts of low-current detector circuits, but also expiring certificates come to mind.

One could question wether a server, IMS, or circuit board/module is expected to be running over a period of more than 10 years. 10 years is the quoted life span of a rechargeable, soldered-in button cell one prominent IMB/IMS manufacturer uses.

- Carsten

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 11-05-2016, 06:03 PM:

Gavin,
I did check before posting, I have a Cinema Controller Board in front of me now and I don't see a battery on it. Any chance there are different revisions of it? Mine (a faulty one) is Rev 6.0.

Posted by Gavin Lewarne (Member # 5397) on 11-06-2016, 07:24 PM:

Marco, ill double check when I get back to work on Tuesday but I'm 97% sure the CCB has a battery. If it doesn't, then I must be thinking of another board.

If it does however, ill take a photo and note the revision number for you

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-06-2016, 07:42 PM:

WOW! All these multiple failures of the same board. Lots just in this thread but then there are lots more Barco projectors out there using this board. Its amazing they haven't had a class action lawsuit arise.

Mark

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 11-06-2016, 09:13 PM:

Maybe compare the production numbers/serials of the defective boards from the OP.
A bad batch?

- Carsten

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 11-07-2016, 12:28 AM:

I've always thought it was a software issue to be honest. Haven't seen many failures recently - not that it's ever been a massive issue though.

Harshitkumar, is that still happening or was it something more frequent on pre-1.10 software?

If Barco could at least try and repair those boards, I have a feeling they just need to be plugged to something that can re-flash them at chip level.

Posted by Gavin Lewarne (Member # 5397) on 11-07-2016, 03:55 AM:

Marco - I think they do perform some sort of cursory re-flash at least. I doubt it goes as deep as wiping the FPGAs and then reuploading via JTAG

I would swear that one of the CCBs I got back under warranty was one of the ones I had previously sent back. Same scratches on the front and even the remains of one of my labels on it. It worked fine again for a long time (I did try a full reflash with it in my projector before it was replaced) before it finally just completely died. No LEDs or anything

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-07-2016, 06:33 AM:

I think I might have had 1 or 2 CCBs fail on their own. I recently had one die due to 2.1.12 but that is a known problem and likely will be recovered by Barco (it went back to them).

1.12.160 and 1.13.190 (both had long field times as the latest software) have been very stable for me. I don't trust 1.13.191 as it has gibberish on the lens selection page and there were reports of corrupt lens settings plus it doesn't bring anything substantive that 1.13.190 didn't already have.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-07-2016, 10:12 AM:

So have you guys determined IF this is caused by firmware or is it actually board failure? From what Gavin described it sounds like board failure...

Mark

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 11-07-2016, 11:53 AM:

It is a bit over the top to suggest a class action suit over this.
With a few hundred Barco S2 systems installed, we've seen a few CCB failures - also a few ICP failures, a few light engine failures... far from an epidemic.
With fewer Christies to look after, we've had MANY more PIB failures. They seem to just up and die when the unit gets a power cycle.

And with very few NECs (5-10?) there have been no board failures. Stuck pixels, dead fans and such, but not the boards.

I would look into a line power problem. The main feed should have surge protection. You should use a UPS for the projector electronics if possible (most Christies, NECS, and all but the smaller Barco's allow this) in sites that have power surges/dropouts/brownouts. Rural areas are worst in my experience, but a cinema near heavy industry can also have nasty power surges when large loads go on/offline.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 11-07-2016, 02:50 PM:

Gavin,
Would Barco accept a CCB back for repair? If it's under warranty it's going back to them but if it's not I'm not sure.
It's just a feeling but I really feel that those are just software crashing/getting corrupted on the board. Just my feeling.

Again, nothing epidemic. I've seen many more dead ICP's than CCB's.

Posted by Gavin Lewarne (Member # 5397) on 11-07-2016, 04:39 PM:

Marco, since we are under a VPF and hence warranty, I always have to send back my old boards, but I never hear anything further about diagnosis etc. I suspect they get reflashed in some kind of external jig and then put back into circulation.

I would imagine its a combination of hardware failures as well as firmware corruption, I have certainly had at least 2 where the Ethernet router just completely gave out. (no lights on ports etc)

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 11-07-2016, 07:15 PM:

In the USA the VPF gets you monitoring and some diagnostic help but not equipment warranty unless I've been doing it wrong all along.

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 11-07-2016, 07:21 PM:

Some NOC contracts include a warranty, possibly he's on the Barco NOC which does offer that. They (Barco NOC) do want most warranty replaced parts back, I've talked them out of some returns (not boards or LEs!) where I can send a pic showing exactly what's failed... and where misuse is not an issue.

Posted by Gavin Lewarne (Member # 5397) on 11-08-2016, 05:15 AM:

In the UK, so on the DPF VFP plan, with DcineX/Ymagis/CinemaNeXt (whatever they call themselves today. 10 year parts warranty on non-consumables and almost everything has to go back.

Posted by Harshitkumar Thakker (Member # 9719) on 11-08-2016, 08:02 AM:

quote: Marco Giustini
Harshitkumar, is that still happening or was it something more frequent on pre-1.10 software?

Marco, this has happened recently as well. We have replaced at least 3 boards in the last 2 months.
We do have it on version 1.13.191 for several months now. I do have it updated to the latest version about couple of months after the update comes out.

As we do not have extended warranty, it becomes very expensive to replace these boards. Barco would not repair them. We don't have to send our defective board back either. I really wish they would have a repair exchange or even just a repair program, especially, since these boards and other components cost quite a bit.

We haven't experienced much failures with ICP or other boards recently. We did have a few ICPs fail back when it was on firmware version 2.x or 3.x. Also, since TI came out with the ICP recovery program, we had used that fix a couple that did have its Flash corrupted.

We are on VPF, but do not require warranties, just monitoring and a support plan within the time limits specified.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 11-08-2016, 09:44 AM:

are your projectors protected by online UPS'?

Posted by Harshitkumar Thakker (Member # 9719) on 11-08-2016, 09:57 AM:

Marco, yes we do have online UPS for the projectors.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-08-2016, 11:04 AM:

quote: Marco Giustini
are your projectors protected by online UPS'?

This shouldn't really matter at all as far as board reliability goes. All the projectors power supplies (In all the manufacturers projectors for that matter) are already tightly regulated and even logged. A bad power supply would be a more suspect thing to look for if a component is repeatedly failing electrically. And that can be found in the projectors logs. External UPS's are meant to level the incoming AC voltage, serve to shield equipment from large surges/transients and indirect lightening strikes aside from their normal job or providing power when there is no power.

Mark

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 11-08-2016, 02:09 PM:

Well, as CCB don't fail so easily I think there is an external cause here to blame. Mains stability is one I could think of.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-08-2016, 03:11 PM:

I would agrew with that if it receives any sort of power directly from the main lines and not the internal power supplies...

You have to remember that if any of the internal supplies goes kerfluie that it's gonna be recorded in the logs and the projector might also throw a power supply error...

Mark

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 11-08-2016, 04:29 PM:

I guess it depends on how good the PSU is. Imagine some very short brownouts, the PSU would momentarily shut down the boards. Maybe it would be logged, maybe not as the CCB may fail and wouldn't be able to write logs anymore! [Smile]

If whatever is behind a PSU is safe, then what's the point of an online UPS?

(Anyway, there are online UPS' here so happy days!)

Posted by Gavin Lewarne (Member # 5397) on 11-09-2016, 03:46 AM:

Marco, I was indeed mistaken. No battery on CCB. But, I did look at mine and its a revision 6 board.

Posted by German Marin (Member # 918) on 11-09-2016, 08:08 AM:

It isn't a "normal problem", we have 261 series 2 Barco and in 6 years we've never change any CCB. Often the problem is the ICP and a reseat is enough to solve the problem or rarely an ICP recovery procedure. In other cases we had to change the Backplane. My opinion is that the problem in not the CCB but it is suffering from another source.

Posted by Gavin Lewarne (Member # 5397) on 11-09-2016, 10:58 AM:

Yeah, but that doesn't account for the times ive replaced ICP,HDSDI, Fan Controller AND backplane, only to find the CCB replacement fixes whatever issue I'm having

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 11-09-2016, 12:09 PM:

Gavin, German has a much higher number of machines and his POV seems sound. Yes, a CCB can fail but it is not something that happens regularly.
I agree with the external cause scenario.

Alternatively, maybe a bad batch of SMPS or maybe Backplanes?

Posted by Gavin Lewarne (Member # 5397) on 11-09-2016, 01:28 PM:

Well, I dunno.

Ive got the projector electronics on a (very large) UPS, which is its only load. Ive had the SMPS swapped twice, the backplane twice, 1 ICP swap, one HDSDI+Enigma swap, 2 LPS swaps (first one failed, 2nd one just had super noisy fan bearings), 1 fan controller swap. And yet, still, 95% of the time I report an issue to DcineX it eventually gets fixed with a CCB swap out. Every time I report an issue ive already tried reseating all the boards and done a full reflash and it almost always never fixes it.

Projection room is HVAC temp and humidity controlled and all my electrical loads are split quite evenly over three phases. Never even had so much as a breaker trip.

The projector gets its yearly service, the filters are cleaned every 2 weeks and at the slightest hint of a noisy fan I get that replaced as well. I take good care of my gear, but for whetever reason, CCBs are the one thing that always fail, in some manner, here.

I don't deny there are external causes, and I'm not saying that its rarely an actual hardware fault - but whatever the barco firmware does, it gets messed up eventually.

And don't forget, I'm sure that most of the replacement boards ive had are someone elses returned ones just reflashed in a jig, I don't think ive ever had a new one.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 11-09-2016, 01:43 PM:

quote: Gavin Lewarne
Ive had the SMPS swapped twice, the backplane twice, 1 ICP swap, one HDSDI+Enigma swap, 2 LPS swaps (first one failed, 2nd one just had super noisy fan bearings), 1 fan controller swap. And yet, still, 95% of the time I report an issue to DcineX it eventually gets fixed with a CCB swap out

Gosh! Barco are not so bad! If all Barco's were as bad our motorways would be clogged by BARCO lorries carrying spare parts! [Wink]

Nice to meet someone actually caring for their projector BTW! Sorry the projector is not returning the love! [Smile]

Posted by Gavin Lewarne (Member # 5397) on 11-09-2016, 02:11 PM:

MArco, I would be quite happy if my projector reciprocated the love I how it. And for the first 2 years, it was grand. But once it got to the 3 year old stage stuff just stated to snowball.

BUT, its had a lot swapped out in the last 2 years and for the last 6 months has been behaving itself flawlessly.

On the flip side, never had so much as a squeak of nonsense from my dolby server and sound, or any of my other ancillary equipment.

Also, sent you a PM [Smile]