Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Samsung buys out Harmon Industries

This is topic Samsung buys out Harmon Industries in forum Digital Cinema Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 11-15-2016, 03:59 PM:

Harmon the parent company of JBL,Crown and other pro audio brands is being bought out by Korean Samsung for $ 8 billion dollars. The purchase premium was well above their stock price. Harmon auto products division is highly profitable and this is what Samsung is making the purchase for.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-16-2016, 10:09 AM:

Good! We might actually see some improvement in JBL and Crown for a change.

Mark

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 11-16-2016, 11:29 AM:

I hope this doesn't mean that Harmon products are about to start blowing up and bursting into flames, too.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-16-2016, 11:31 AM:

LOL! Leo, come on....they have always been doing that.

Posted by Leslie Hartmier (Member # 7053) on 11-16-2016, 03:57 PM:

Not that I necessarily contest your statements, but I've never had a Samsung I didn't like.

Maybe it's just US devices.

Then again, it's not like 'someone you know' hasn't held forth on the wonder of Crown amplifiers, so it might be a good fit.

What did you say about them, again, Gordon? "Only improved by immersion into a dumpster!" seems to be what I recall being said...

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 11-16-2016, 04:21 PM:

failure mode is usually flames and they didn't earn there nameing as DC75 dc150 or dc300 as that was often the dc on the speaker terminals [Smile]

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 11-16-2016, 05:11 PM:

LOL! Yes, I've seen several speakers completely burnt by failed Crown amps!

(I believe it's 'Harman' BTW!)

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 11-16-2016, 05:45 PM:

Ya, do something with those $6k Crown DriveCore amps!

Posted by Martin Brooks (Member # 1269) on 11-16-2016, 09:59 PM:

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
Good! We might actually see some improvement in JBL and Crown for a change.

Really? You think Samsung, of all companies, is going to improve JBL and Crown? I don't think so. Besides, they claim they're gong to let Harman run independently. Of course we know that's not true, but usually it's the backroom operations of HR and Finance that get merged first. And it's still got to get through government approvals. I can't see Trump liking this deal - it will make him look bad letting a Korean company buy this American company, even if most of the products are already made in China.

All I know is that I've still got a Crown D75 power amp in my apartment that's been working perfectly since 1978. I realize that's anecdotal, but still.....

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-17-2016, 08:51 AM:

quote:
they didn't earn there nameing as DC75 dc150 or dc300 as that was often the dc on the speaker terminals [Smile]

When I first moved here to Utah I worked for a dealer that sold lots of Com Tech 400 and up power amps. Now we have hundreds of them around here and not a one has ever thrown DC across a speaker but when they fail the ODEP light for the failed channel always comes on and the issue is always a shorted output device or two. Over the years I've only had one of those amps actually have more than just a blown output device and that one had a nice chain reaction. So as far as Crown goes those CT series have been pretty reliable but no where near as reliable as QSC has been. The later crown XLS series has pretty much been a disaster for those that have bought them and they have the most bizarre circuit design.

Mark

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 11-17-2016, 09:16 AM:

I've had a lot of original DC300 amps that just kept going without many issues, the PS caps go bad after a decade or three as should be expected.
And a 24 screen install with CE1000/2000 amps where many of them immediately failed spectacularly - smoke, sparks, and some flames. Crown sent a tech to modify all (around 150) of them, they have worked reasonably OK for the 20 years since then but are now having problems (as are pretty much any brand of 20 year old amp).

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-17-2016, 10:11 AM:

I used to service a bit of Crown amps and got to see where they would cut corners on designs. Even the D series, particularly the series II stuff always seemed to be failure prone. Furthermore, I got to see enough common failures that I had my own "upgrades". The same with the PS series as well as the Micro and Macro Tech stuff. That said, some of the Macro-Tech series were pretty good but if they fail, they can essentially make the amp not worth repairing. I've had it where when the output devices die, they cascade down and burn up the motherboard too!

I'm definitely off of Crown amps and am quite happy with QSC, at this point. Lab Gruppnn has a very sterling reputation but I think the bang for the buck in cinema can't justify them.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-17-2016, 11:33 AM:

On top of all these problems some of the semiconductors in the Com tech and Micro Tech series have gone obsolete. Electronics parts distributors have what ever is left of the production of those devices in stock. You may be able to get em from Crown if your distributor doesn't have them. I think replacing them with QSC is a far better idea because you will also get a huge upgrade in the quality of sound reproduced.

I have many Series 1 QSC that are going on 30 years old that still function perfectly. When they go bad I often rebuild them, although it's almost at a point where rebuilding them is getting to be too expensive since the rebuild kits disappeared. But just recapping them is all it normally takes. and thats not terribly expsnsive.

Mark

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 11-18-2016, 09:28 AM:

You want reliability? We've had 3 Norelco dual push-pull 70w TUBE amps, rack mounted, that were installed in one of our studios back in 1978; they were NEVER powered off until the building was torn down in 2013.

You talk about we are all 6° of separation way from someone whose been flamed by a Crown -- happened to me while I was mixing Jay and the Americans live concert. Let me tell you, all you need is to have a Crown amp belch smoke and shoot sparks and flames at you once and ever since then, I have never turned on a Crown amp without just bit of trepidation and stress. And always with my fingers crossed.

Thing is, in college we had an entire recording facility in the basement of their conference center that had nothing but Crown amps and a bank of Crown tape decks, I mean like 30 of them -- two for each conference room so they could record sessions. They were spectacularly reliable. There was never a thought that any thing would fail on you. But then again, I was young and naive and thought all electronic equipment was my friend. The university bought everything Crown because back then, Crown was located in Elkart IN, just a few miles away. I guess they wanted to support local businesses and you can't beat repairs being just a 30 min drive.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 11-18-2016, 05:36 PM:

Crown 800 Tape decks is of another story - things are bulletproof.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-19-2016, 11:29 AM:

That was long before Harmon bought them Monte. And no, they aren't quite bullet proof. I used to repair a lot of the 800 series and the 700 series decks when I worked at a crown warranty repair station in Chicago.

Mark

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 11-29-2016, 04:52 AM:

The latest/dec edition of Cinema Technology Magazine has an article on the history of JBL, and the names Shearer-MGM, Lansing, Altec Lansing, Harman, etc and their relations all show up in it.

http://www.cinematechnologymagazine.com/

- Carsten