Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Dolby releases new software 2.8.11 for DCP2000/2K4 and ShowVault servers

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Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 12-21-2016, 07:46 PM:

Wow, I thought this would never happen, there is a successor to 2.6.4. I don't see any exciting new features, though (sigh...)
The WebUI now is official now. Quite a few fixes, although I am not sure wether these are actually referenced against 2.6.4, as Dolby started a new release document.

http://support.doremitechno.org/index.php/downloads/software-firmware

http://support.doremitechno.org/images/Portal/Cinema_Players/Release_Notes/Dolby_DCP_ShowVault_SW_Release_Notes_00 5282_Issue_2.pdf

Posted by Annli Com (Member # 8266) on 12-21-2016, 10:28 PM:

Very Big Thanks To Carsten Kurz for the info .
Doremis Very Good version released
By ShibuPaul

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 12-22-2016, 04:36 AM:

it was about time! Who's testing them first? [Wink]

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-22-2016, 06:45 AM:

Check out the audio mapping feature on a Showvault is broken on this version when playing IOP files (only the first 8 channels are recognized). That seems like a potentially pretty big issue for those that have 7.1 systems.

Note, the software is also available on the US site.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 12-22-2016, 11:11 AM:

Thanks for the gotcha alert, Steve. In the smaller house at the Egyptian, we use a DSS200/cat862 as our primary server, and have a DCP2000 in the rack as a standby server, kept ready for immediate use if the Dolby goes wrong. We have the power amps, wiring and speakers in place for 7.1, and the audio processor is now an AP20, so it's been on our list to do to reconfigure the AP20 to power amp wiring and the output assignments to enable actual 7.1.

But if the DCP2000 with this software update won't be able to give us channels 11 and 12 on an Interop DCP, this would mean that only the DSS200 would be 7.1 capable. I think we'll stick with our existing software.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-22-2016, 11:44 AM:

Leo...only if you do the channel mapping in the DCP2000. If you leave the channel mapping alone, then it will output all 16 in their proper spots. Since the DSS200 doesn't channel map, it would seem that you should be good since both should have the same output.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 12-22-2016, 08:12 PM:

Sorry - misread you. So with the new software, it will still output all 16 channels; you just don't have the ability to send, say, channel 9 on the DCP to channel 7 going out through the DB25 AES cable.

The pinouts from the Doremi's media block are significantly different to those on the cat862, so much so that I had to set up separate profiles in the AP20 in order to enable a straight swap of the audio cable, should we ever need to do that in an emergency situation.

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 12-23-2016, 06:45 AM:

Dolby says that 2.6.4 had problems with channel mapping, no details given, and that it is all fixed and shiny in 2.8.11 - what have you found?
We do use server mapping but only rarely, prefer physical mapping (Odyssey 7.1 card).
The problem I saw with 2.6 was that SMPTE CPL channel metadata would override the server mapping, making it pointless.

Posted by Annli Com (Member # 8266) on 12-23-2016, 08:08 AM:

The New Version CPL Skip Option working very nice and smooth, no hanging issue.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 12-23-2016, 03:20 PM:

quote: Dave Macaulay
The problem I saw with 2.6 was that SMPTE CPL channel metadata would override the server mapping, making it pointless.

But isn't that the intended behaviour?

- Carsten

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 12-23-2016, 09:00 PM:

Intended behavior with unintended consequences. I'm sure that there are lots of theaters out there with audio processors that can only handle 8 AES input channels. Therefore, given that, per DCI, 7 and 8 are the commentary tracks, if you want to get either Todd-AO/SDDS (left front extra and right front extra, DCI channels 9 and 10) or modern stereo rear surround 7.1 (channels 11 and 12) into a processor that can only handle 8 input channels in total, you've got to map 7 and 8 in such that they can receive either 9 and 10 or 11 and 12 coming out of the server or IMB.

You can either do that with a hardware converter (e.g. Odyssey), or software mapping in the server or IMB. If you do the latter and SMPTE metadata overrides the channel mapping you've set up to take account of the way your audio processor is configured, then you've got problems.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-24-2016, 06:16 AM:

I would say that the intersection of 5-screen channel theatres and those that have only 8-channels worth of inputs in their audio processor are very small, if not zero.

Now the HI/VI versus the 7.1 audio channels, that is where things will go wrong. With the industry going to RJ45 connectors and CAT cable, it makes things difficult to rewire the system without a hardware solution (e.g. Odyssey). Mind you, I think needing a PCB to make a simple wiring change is an unnce expense.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 12-24-2016, 08:13 AM:

quote: Leo Enticknap
Intended behavior with unintended consequences.

I was referring to SMPTE metadata overriding static channel assignment. That is one of the intended features of SMPTE dynamic channel mapping. Although one would say that while SMPTE DCP is not fully stablished, it would be wise to allow this feature to be disabled until it is working reliably with all SMPTE DCPs.

The 8ch routing problem is a different issue and would qualify as a bug in my opinion. With all the time it took Dolby to produce an updated software for the Doremis, and also with the wild mixture of serious bugs in DSS 4.8.xx, I'm wondering what goes on in their software department.

They are basically sabotaging 'their own' 7.1 Format when used with 'their own' processors.

- Carsten

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-24-2016, 10:27 AM:

4.8.9.12 has been a very stable version for me.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 12-24-2016, 10:34 AM:

I thought 4.8.x was cursed with the DISCONNECTED, media block disconnections and "timecode not moving" bugs? There's a whole thread elsewhere. It's stable when it works.

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 12-24-2016, 12:19 PM:

Yes, the problem is with 7.1 screens and an 8 channel processor. using channel mapping to put BSL and BSR (11/12) on 7/8 rather than the normal HI/VI worked OK.
With SMPTE mapping over-riding the server mapping, you get HI/VI from the rear surrounds - but only when playing a SMPTE package.
The Odyssey card swaps the AES signals so whatever is playing on 11/12 will always play on the rear surrounds.
I'm not sure if it's intended behaviour. If you have server mapping it should act after the channel assignments in the metadata, in my opinion. When I asked Doremi about it a few months ago, I remember them as suggesting this "problem" would be fixed in a future release.

Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 12-24-2016, 01:04 PM:

What is the point of SMPTE channel mapping in the first place?

I completely understand being able to set channel mapping in the server for things like legacy sound processors. But that's a set-it-once-and-forget-it thing.

There is already a standardized channel layout; if the content can't be mastered to that standard, why should the server be forced to jump through hoops for broken content?

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 12-24-2016, 01:32 PM:

quote: Steve Guttag
I would say that the intersection of 5-screen channel theatres and those that have only 8-channels worth of inputs in their audio processor are very small, if not zero.

Hmm ... are you sure?

If a theatre has five stage channels, that is probably because it wants to play 70mm. The number of DCPs with five stage channel audio (i.e. a signal on channels 9 and 10) is tiny. In almost three years of working with digital cinema, I can only recall having encountered two, and that's working for a group of three theaters that shows almost exclusively arthouse, archival and re-release content. Almost all the five stage channel titles I've shown have been 70mm (either mag or DTS), plus a tiny handful of 8-track SDDS prints, and those two DCPs.

We now have AP20s as the primary audio processor in all three houses: this has 16 channels of AES input. However, half of those are used for DCP audio and the other half for DTS film audio (the 8-channel analog inputs are fed by CP200s for all other film sound).

So to enable us to play both five stage channel mix and modern 7.1 DCPs, we have to have two hardware dongles that juggle the AES pinouts from the media block, and physically swap the appropriate one in depending on which two channels on the DCP we want going into 7 and 8 on the AP20. As these take the form of DB25 to RJ45 converters with the pins in the appropriate slots, it's not difficult to do, but given the limitations of the AP20, it's all we can do. I don't know if it's possible to get an add-on card for the AP20 to give us more AES input channels, and if so how much they cost (investigating this is on the never ending "to do" list): if so, we could do away with the dongles and accomplish everything with channel mapping in the AP20 profiles, because we'd then be able to take all 16 DCP channels in, permanently. But at the moment, we're channel-limited.

My point is that I suspect that many if not most of the theatres that are wired for, and actually play five stage channel mixes regularly, probably won't have more than 8 AES input channels to play with exclusively for DCP audio.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-24-2016, 03:18 PM:

The AP20 is standard with 16 channels of AES. The 8-channel version is the low-cost option. You have 8-channels of analog. So a CP200 or like processor could come in on the 8-channel analog (L, LC, C, RC, R, Ls, Rs, SW)

With the 16 channel AES inputs, you can route what is coming off of a DCP in which way you want.

I know in my 5-screen channel theatres, we have used products like the QSC DCP300 to bring the film sound in analog and the DCP comes in on the two AES connectors for the full 16-channels to be used as needed, per format.

If you want something to scratch your head over...check out QSC's new DPM100 processor AES 1 is channels 1-8 BUT 7/8 are not for HI/VI...they have a separate input for them. AES 15/16. It is another RJ45 but only pair 4 are connected and you need to get HI/VI to them. So think about that. If you have an IMB that only has RJ45s, there is no clean way to run the cables. you will need to break the signals at one end and put them in the "other" connector...or depend on someone like Odyssey to make a hardware solution...thereby defeating part of the ease of using CAT cable. I wish they had just used a DB25 with all of the channels on that 1-8 and 15/16 on the standard pinout (Dolby's, not that goofy, never standardized, "DCI" thingy that Doremi and Ultra called out). This way, if you make your cables, you have an easy solution. If you want to use RJ45s there are several sources of RJ45 to DB25 connectors for cheap and Odyssey can save the day again, as usual.

Adam, the idea on the SMPTE scheme is that channels would be uniform by name, not by anyone's preferred pinout. When mastering content, Left is left is left and it will "find" the right hole to come out of on the mediablock.

Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 12-24-2016, 04:32 PM:

It still sounds to me like it's a solution to a problem that didn't exist.

Posted by Kristo Nalo (Member # 9748) on 12-27-2016, 03:48 AM:

Thank you very much for this useful information! Can't wait to try this one.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-27-2016, 06:42 AM:

I hear that the HI/VI tracks varied around the globe. In the US, they have always been on 7/8 but I hear that in some parts of Europe, they would be on 15/16. Having something like that always come out of the right spigot would seem to be of value.

However, had the industry not waffled around on it, the problem would have never presented itself. LC/RC have also migrated from 7/8 to 9/10. And then rumble seats have jumped on 13.

Personally, I don't think that HI/VI should have ever been on one of the main 16 channel tracks (nor DBox). There should have been low-bandwidth ADA tracks like DTS did on the XD10. You don't need 20-20K tracks to carry essentially telephone quality information. Having Data tracks should have been how things like rumble seats or smellovision or whatever get into a DCP.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 12-27-2016, 10:16 AM:

quote: Steve Guttag
However, had the industry not waffled around on it, the problem would have never presented itself. LC/RC have also migrated from 7/8 to 9/10. And then rumble seats have jumped on 13.

Agreed completely; the existing DCI channel allocations are not obvious or intuitive. So we've got to try to work with an imperfect standard, and one that isn't the same as other multi-channel mapping schemes (e.g. consumer BD/HDMI players, which put 7.1 left rear and right rear on 7 and 8, or DTS 8-track), which creates its own set of issues when trying to play DCPs, film audio and alternative content, all going into the same main audio processor.

quote: Steve Guttag
With the 16 channel AES inputs, you can route what is coming off of a DCP in which way you want.

Only if you have the luxury of being able to use all 16 of those channels for DCP audio, which we don't, and which I'd speculate many of the houses that have and use five stage channels don't (because apart from immersive audio formats, most of the five stage channel content out there is either 70mm or SDDS film). If you only have eight of them for the DCP server, then if you want to play 5.1 plus the HI/VI commentaries, 7.1, and a five stage channel mix, you've got to find a way to multipurpose 7 and 8 - either hardware (crossing over wires in the connectors) or by channel mapping in the DCP server.

Posted by Harold Hallikainen (Member # 5405) on 12-27-2016, 10:30 AM:

On use of full range tracks for HI/VI, we have an option in the JSD-60 (and, if I remember correctly, in the upcoming firmware release of the JSD-100) that pulls VI from the LFE track with a 200Hz HPF. We don't yet have the option in the CMS-2200 to put VI on the same output as LFE with a 200Hz HPF, but we SHOULD get to that. Then, with locally generated HI, you have 16 channels available for auditorium audio.

On using AES/EBU outputs for data (such as Atmos FSK sync or DBOX motion code), SMPTE has established a standard for binary sync over one channel of AES/EBU and an HTTP transfer protocol for auxiliary data (such as immersive sound, motion data, etc.). If the auxiliary data is encrypted, the server sends the data to the external device for decryption in the external device. This requires KDM delivery to the external device (for which there currently is not a transport standard) and the same security requirements that an IMB has (secure boundary, tamper protection, etc.), which gets expensive. I suspect the future is in rendering within the media block / server (as USL and GDC are currently doing).

Harold

Harold

Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 12-27-2016, 01:55 PM:

The HI track on trailers tends to be a mix-down "with emphasis on dialog" and not a dialog-only track. How is it being treated for features?

Lionsgate seems to be the predominant user of the VI track on trailers, but it's only a narrator stating "Tyler Perry's Boo! A Madea Halloween coming in October from Lionsgate" at the beginning and then nothing the rest of the trailer. (Not that I'd expect anything useful from a VI track on a fast-cut trailer.)

Posted by Magnus Eriksson (Member # 6085) on 12-28-2016, 09:46 AM:

This might be a stupid question.
I updated a DCP2000 from 2.6.4 to 2.8.11 yesterday. The projector is a vintage series 1 Christie with a TI board from the stone age. I have a Dolphin 1.2 with FW 21.2k.
After the update the Diagnostic Tool system tab yells about "Security Manager not answering" and "Incorrect network configuration". SM version says "missing" in red.
I really don¨t remember this happening in 2.6.4.
However, DCP:s do play fine, both encrypted and unencrypted.
So, since Sweden is a Dolby DSS territory Doremis are quite unusual. My perhaps stupid question is: Can I install SM 2.1.104 with Dolphin FW 21.2k and still play encrypted content on the old Christie (and will the Diagnostic Tool stop yelling)?
/M.E.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 12-28-2016, 12:42 PM:

AFAIK you can safely install the latest SM on any machines.

Have you *power cycled* the doremi after the update??

Posted by Magnus Eriksson (Member # 6085) on 12-28-2016, 01:24 PM:

Three times. Last try I brutally pulled the power cords and went for a cup of coffee.
/M.E.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 12-28-2016, 03:27 PM:

that's not a Dolby Server, it won't like it!

What is your current version of SM?

I'd delete/save/create the projector again in the device manager. I am not familiar with that SW version yet but the SM can misbehave (in an IMB) if the projector is not married. It does not make sense but I'd try that anyway!

Posted by Magnus Eriksson (Member # 6085) on 12-28-2016, 05:33 PM:

I know it doesn´t like that, it was just reciprocated love [Big Grin]

As far as I can remember there has been no SM present att all. Just "missing" (in black) or "N/A". I just thought it wasn't needed with 21.2k non CTP/series 1 'very old'.
But; if I install a SM, will I forever lose the ability to play encrypted content with this combo with no turning back? It works fine now, it´s just the Diagnostic Tool grunting in the background.
I can give delete/create/save projector a try tomorrow though.
/M.E.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 12-29-2016, 04:20 AM:

Ahah, LOL! [Smile]

The SM is integrated in the Dolphin card, it's also called sbc405, it's the little board not enclosed in black epoxy where the ethernet and the power plugs in. If it's a Dolphin 1.2, then the SM is there and you need one!!

As I said, the SM does not affect series 1. The Firmware does. But you can update SW and SM on any projectors without having to worry about.

Now the problem is that I'm not sure you can update the SM if the system doesn't see that...

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 12-29-2016, 06:36 AM:

I had one server starts yelling about no SM after installing the software - but only after pulling a Diagnostic package for analysis afterwards. It was OK after a reboot and taking another package. Dolby found no problems in the package.
I would reseat the Dolphin board and the connectors to it - both ends of the wee network cable. Plus clean the fans and reseat the RAM sticks since it's open anyway.
If that doesn't help then take a diags package and send it to doremisupport@dolby.com with your story.

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 12-29-2016, 07:51 AM:

Dolby has done away with separate support channels for Dolby and Doremi brand products. All requests for support on cinema products should be sent to cinemasupport@dolby.com. The doremisupport address probably forwards to cinemasupport, but that may end some day.

Posted by Magnus Eriksson (Member # 6085) on 12-29-2016, 04:06 PM:

OK, I chickened out today.
An angry projectionist called me and said that external USB drives refused to mount. That was enough for me.
So, I pushed 2.6.4 into /etc/rc.once through FTP, rebooted (in a polite way) and the DCP2000 went back to normal behavior.
No alerts or grunting, USB drives mount fine, films play as they should.
Now it also finds a SM, version 2.0.20.
I grabbed the "detailed report" and will open a case on the Dolemi service portal.
/M.E.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 12-29-2016, 06:20 PM:

interesting, thanks.

2.0.20 is not too far away and anyway the recommended sequence is SOFTWARE/SM/FW. If the Software does not recognise the SM anymore, then what.

It's seems that Brad's belief of "fixing 2 old bugs and adding 4 new ones" may have been applied on this occasion (too). Meh.

Posted by Magnus Eriksson (Member # 6085) on 12-29-2016, 06:44 PM:

Anyone else willing to try these stunts on Christmas holidays [Big Grin]

/M.E.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-30-2016, 07:07 AM:

Not a chance! As a holiday season approaches, I freeze everything where it is. Would you rather deal with a self-inflicted injury going into the busiest week(s) of the year or during the "dead" season?

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 12-30-2016, 08:27 AM:

There is a change with USB drives, they do not mount on reboot. You need to un/replug a USB drive after reboot to have it mounted. Otherwise I haven't seen much difference.
We freeze updates for December, except when advised to in a troubleshooting case.

Posted by Magnus Eriksson (Member # 6085) on 12-30-2016, 09:22 AM:

quote: Steve Guttag
Not a chance! As a holiday season approaches, I freeze everything where it is.

Bah! No guts, no glory [beer]

No, to be honest. This is not a commercial cinema, it's more like a community house screening films a few times every month. The holiday screenings were over and next film is in two weeks. Good time for a test.

quote: Dave Macaulay
You need to un/replug a USB drive after reboot to have it mounted

Tried that. Several times. Nothing. Muerte.
/M.E.

Posted by Mike Renlund (Member # 4675) on 01-05-2017, 11:06 AM:

Hi everyone, we did have users install 2.8.11 and we had a couple of reports of troubles with using USB ports. We've removed the software from our FTP site as a precaution while we investigate.

Mike Renlund
Dolby Laboratories

Posted by Magnus Eriksson (Member # 6085) on 01-05-2017, 02:36 PM:

I just opened a case on dolbycustomer about my Christmas holiday experience with 2.8.11. I hope the logfiles can give some clues.
/M.E.

Posted by Anders Nordentoft-Madsen (Member # 3334) on 01-09-2017, 02:56 AM:

Also had problems with at few of the server I updated. After update X server crashes, so no local gui. Everything works playback and schedulling, and control is possible via webgui, but no local gui. This happens on about 1/10 servers, only thing to do is downgrade to 2.6.4.