Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: NEC NC2000C router error

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Posted by Torsten Juergens (Member # 7916) on 04-11-2017, 01:59 PM:

Hi All,

Yesterday after start up, our NEC NC2000C came with a „Router Self Check Fail (INIT,3) and red lights. No show possible.

Then after the second re-power of the NEC the failure was gone but the lights on top were still burning red, not orange.
I could find two corresponding records in the error log about these issue.

Today we were able to start the show directly with red lights on top but without any displayed error.
Over night the NEC stands usually without any power until the next show.

Is it necessary to change the router or is it just a network cable problem and why burn the lights red the whole time without any recorded error. Can I reset the red lights somehow.

What should I do in this strange case?

-Torsten

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 04-11-2017, 02:07 PM:

In DCC (the software) there would be a reason for the red tail lights showing (click on the "Info" button and it would be in the "show errors" box).

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-11-2017, 02:38 PM:

If the router has failed he will not be able to log into DCC at all since everything goes through the router. The only indicator is the readout. It happens because the CPU board is expecting com with the router and it never happens, so the error is displayed on the readout.

Router failure is THE most common failure mode for Series 2 NEC's according to Strong. If you have more than one Series 2 NEC at your theater you really should have a spare router in the booth. The new routers do not seem to fail, but beware that the original style and the current style are not directly interchangeable and replacing the old style with the current one MAY require a mounting kit. So be sure which version you have before you order any. I have had three routers fail out of 334 NEC Series 2, but have not seen one fail now in several years. I do remember at least one showed your symptoms intermittently before permanently croaking. I still have one very old NC-2000 that's now 7 years old where that original router has not failed and I am probably just going to replace it next time I am on site because that projector is ~800 miles from me. I have also seen a half dozen local network switches fail over the last year. Seems like you are lucky to get ~5 years out of those. Multiplex sites now keep a spare network switch in stock.

Mark

Posted by Torsten Juergens (Member # 7916) on 04-11-2017, 10:44 PM:

Yes Steve, I can use the DCC again without any problems as usually. But in the „Info” there is no error shown anyhow it has the red tail lights on and this I don´t understand.

And Mark, yes I am very lucky that our NEC was working without any problems within the last few years. Fortunately I have a spare part router on site. So I will replace it as soon as possible.

-Torsten

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-12-2017, 12:22 PM:

Yes, replacing it is really the best idea because it's gonna fail at some point soon.

Mark

Posted by Torsten Juergens (Member # 7916) on 04-14-2017, 12:47 PM:

I replaced the router yesterday. Now all works fine again without any problems, perfect !

But the view inside was not that great. The fan direct placed over the light engine and the engine itself is contaminated with popcorn oil.

http://www.film-tech.com/uploads/uploads0503/NC2000C.jpg

During lamp adjustment I could see a very light shade of green coming into the picture from the left side.

Mark, in one of your post here you wrote that you are working on a write up on disassembling and cleaning light engines. Do you have already made one for the NC-2000 ?

If yes, could I get one, I would rather like to clean it by myself.

Many thanks again
-Torsten

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-14-2017, 02:28 PM:

Wow! I've never seen one that bad. I absolutely recommend that you have an exhaust run outdoors from above your popper. All of my customers added this exhaust to the lobby poppers when they went digital and I have no grease problem. One theater in Wyoming had it so bad in the beginning that grease was dripping off the negative lamp mount in a Christie CP-2000. That projector was my warning to everyone.

The issues I have out west here are more just dust leakage getting in. It IS also possible to mount a small micro fiber filter to that fan above the light engine, but it is going to need somewhat frequent checking and changing out so it does not become plugged up. NEC should have had that from day 1, sort of like the Christie LAD filter.

I am actually working on the prism "how-to" this week. Am lucky that I have a complete one here so I can. So I should have it done with pictures in another week or so. It is only going to go into details of removing the light input (front) prism so you can access the rear of it and the fronts of the DMD prisms to do cleaning. You will also need to be able to drill and ream a hole and press in a second dowel pin so the input prism can be put back exactly as it came off the mounting base. The factory only installs a dowel pin on one side of it as they are all adjusted during assembly at the factory. As to weather you decide to dismantle your prism is your choice but you have to remember it's 25K USD or more to replace it. Even an NC-900 prism is 10K USD.

Mark

Posted by Torsten Juergens (Member # 7916) on 04-16-2017, 12:11 PM:

Mark, I would like to try it on my own risk of course with the help of your „how to do manual”. The whole process of the procedure itself will be certainly not that big problem I guess. The important thing will be not to think all the time of the 25k USD and cross the fingers during the work. My schedule is about 3 working days. One to take it out, another one to clean it and the last day to make it work again. I´ll wait for your “how-to” until it is finished.

-Thanks Torsten

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 04-16-2017, 02:54 PM:

you won't need one day to remove the engine!

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-18-2017, 10:22 AM:

Well, changing an engine in an NC-XXXX takes all of 15 minutes. An NC-900 is another practically day long story into itself. That projector seems to be built AROUND the light engine.

It should only take about 4 hours start to finish the first time you do the cleaning. But you will need to have the correct drill bit, reamer and dowel pin, lens cleaner, and wipes at hand.

Mark

Posted by Torsten Juergens (Member # 7916) on 04-20-2017, 01:49 PM:

OK, but what kind of lens cleaner do I have to use. I work with the ECLIPSE fluid that contains Methanol and PecPads for cleaning my DSLR camera lenses and sensor. Is this the right one or do you have a better suggestion that addresses especially the popcorn oil?

-Torsten

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-20-2017, 01:52 PM:

At Canon factory service we used to use 50% MEK and 50% Alcohol. I am probably going to try that mixture first to see how it cleans.

Mark

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 04-20-2017, 03:23 PM:

There are coatings which may only sustain certain cleaning fluids, so, the best would be to look up what NEC suggests in their maintenance manuals.
In general, 99.9% Ethanol or Isopropanol is recommended. Isopropanol is cheaper and easier to get in germany than high-purity Ethanol. I had good results with both removing popper grease off surfaces.

- Carsten

Posted by Torsten Juergens (Member # 7916) on 04-24-2017, 02:56 PM:

Well, almost all lens cleaning stuff on the market includes Alcohol. But doesn´t Ethanol or Isopropanol more than Methanol have a tendency to leave streaks on lens surfaces? And what about MEK, it smells more aggressive than Alcohol, in relation to dissolving lens coating?

-Torsten

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-09-2017, 10:01 AM:

When I ws a tech at Canon we used a mix of 50% Ethol Alcohol and 50% MEk. The MEK is somewhat nasty, but it's in a diluted state with the alcohol. The MEK keeps the cleaner from leaving streaks and causes it all to evaporate much quicker. Both of those are are easily available....

Mark

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 05-11-2017, 12:51 PM:

If you use high-grade Alcohol, you don't have streak issues. MEK is a very capable solvent (some people use it to glue/weld plastic). I wouldn't use that kind of stuff unless the manufacturer tells me to explicitly. It's much more dangerous than Ethanol or Isopropanol and more complicated to get. Start with 99.9% Isopropanol. You can get it cheap in lab grade from ebay.

- Carsten

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-11-2017, 01:47 PM:

You can buy MEK at Home Depot and other paint stores. Diluted properly with the alcohol it's harmless to optics. BY itself, that is another story.

Mark

Posted by Torsten Juergens (Member # 7916) on 10-21-2017, 02:25 AM:

Hi again, finally we have installed the exhaust that you recommended Mark.
Now it really makes sense to clean the prism. Is it actually necessary to have that base plate in place NEC recommends before you start?

-Torsten

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 10-23-2017, 11:45 AM:

IDK what baseplate you are talking about. The light engine is removable as a unit in it's frame assembly. The picture is what you pull out. This was the one and only bad NC-2000 engine I ever had to replace, and the bad pixels were caused by demolition work going on right next to the projector. Once it's pulled I usually set them down on a clean work surface covered with a cloth.

Posted by Torsten Juergens (Member # 7916) on 11-16-2017, 10:19 AM:

I am talking about this baseplate.