Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Barco dp2k-10s going "haywire"

This is topic Barco dp2k-10s going "haywire" - projection all garbled in forum Digital Cinema Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Marlon Martins (Member # 8823) on 06-07-2017, 05:32 AM:

the projector was working fine, after a few hours of use, image started to get red stripes. turning on/off works again, after 1 hour, the problem happens again.

temperatures are ok, ventilation ok, we re-seated all the boards, works again, 2 hours later, same problem. manager does not show any problems, everything works as should (besides "broken" projection). happens with any video, any screen format, does not seems a "consistent" problem.

any guesses on the source of the problem? or what board is most likely to be the root cause?

thanks in advance [Wink]

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 06-07-2017, 06:37 AM:

It looks like red is ok and green or blue is weird.
Try "uncorrected" test patterns, if they are good then possibly the media block has gone crazy.
If patterns are bad... ICP, or the Blue or Green formatter, maybe the backplane?
I would then swap the red and the screwy color's formatter data cables and see where the problem is - ICP or formatter.
Possibly a connection issue though, since reseating did help a while. Clean the card connectors gently with isopropyl and reseat a few times in a row. I haven't had probs with the internal cables but if you do reseat them be careful of the connectors, they have tiny locking tabs that must be released.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 06-07-2017, 07:10 AM:

Which server is actually in this 10s? ICMP/Alchemy, or other brand (Doremi/Dolby)?

- Carsten

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 06-07-2017, 04:48 PM:

there was a software update for the ICMP which was covering colour flashes - you may want to make sure you are running the latest version.
And what Dave said: using proper antistatic measures you can clean the connectors and see if that helps.

Run test patterns when the picture goes wrong - including calibration RGBW - and see what happens.
You may also need to reseat the formatter cables - or swap them to see if the issue follow the formatter or the cards.

I vote for an engine issue. [Smile]

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 06-07-2017, 09:53 PM:

One of my co-workers recently had a DP-2000 with a similar symptom (in this case uniform white vertical stripes). The light engine was FUBAR.

Posted by Marlon Martins (Member # 8823) on 06-07-2017, 11:55 PM:

thanks again guys, great tips here.

the server is a IMS-1000.

i will be back with the results... [Wink]

Posted by Adrian Avram (Member # 7931) on 06-08-2017, 02:05 AM:

Hi,
Looking at the symptom, my bet is on the IMS 1000, providing the test patterns are displayed fine.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 06-08-2017, 02:44 AM:

quote: Dave Macaulay
It looks like red is ok and green or blue is weird.

I might be mistaken, but to me it looks more like red is all messed up and green and blue are OK. You can clearly see the garbled up pattern being more intense in the darker parts of the image.

If it's a problem that only occurs after a few hours, I would say you first try to recreate it and then run those test patterns, or else you will likely not establish anything about the source of the problem.

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 06-08-2017, 06:18 AM:

Yes it does look like a red issue. Brain fart.
But this doesn't look like a server problem to me. Image corruption like that is probably ICP or formatter - or connection issues.
You need to look at test patterns. Pure colors R G B WH BK should tell a tale. If you can pause a playback showing the corruption and check patterns that look good, then cancel the pattern and see a still corrupt image... that points at the IMS. Patterns are mostly generated or stored/displayed by the ICP.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 06-08-2017, 09:05 AM:

I was asking for the specific server, because, since it is an IMS1000, there is a separate TI ICP. If it was an Alchemy/ICMP, then all electronics before the formatters are on it, no separate ICP.

- Carsten

Posted by Marlon Martins (Member # 8823) on 06-10-2017, 07:22 AM:

ICP was changed to test... everything worked fine again... FOR A DAY! then garbled screen again...

the technicians will come today for to do a "tear-down" to find the possible cause. [Frown]

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 06-10-2017, 11:01 AM:

Is it possible that you have a problem with overheating? Is your projection room air conditioned and ventilated?

Posted by Marlon Martins (Member # 8823) on 06-10-2017, 01:03 PM:

by the temperature readings, everything is ok (FPGA at 55ºc, DMD at 28ºC, IC's and LPS 35ºC, etc...) Also, is winter here, is damn cold. Room has AC at full-power 24/7. the exhaust air is directed outside the room.

the only thing weird is the lamp temperature reading. its 96ºC most of the time, even with projector cold for a hour (even without the lamp being turned on prior). i warned them about that, most likely a sensor problem, and not actually the lamp at 96ºC.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 06-11-2017, 05:23 AM:

there is probably not much that your tech can do. If re-seating cables and clean contacts/connectors does not help, you'll have to replace parts.
Do the test pattern thing to find out what part is experiencing problems or you'll drag this issue on and on forever.

In the end your options are limited: backplane or formatter (engine) as the ICP has already been replaced. This is assuming the issue is showing up with test patterns too.

Posted by Marlon Martins (Member # 8823) on 06-11-2017, 02:11 PM:

thanks guys for all the help. the technicians basically disassembled the whole thing and after a full day working fine, it showed the error again.

the owner then decided to get a barco dp2k-19b as we need a more powerful projector to replace this one. (as i was already recommending a while ago) they want to buy quickly, so i need your help once again:

what server to get with the new projector, the alchemy that come with it by default, or a IMS2000? the main need is "stability and longevity", cause a working projector is "the main need". [Wink]

thanks again [Wink]

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-11-2017, 02:44 PM:

Anything BUT an IMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 06-11-2017, 03:25 PM:

You're going to have to weigh up a number of factors.

What server are you currently using with the 10S? Are you happy with it? Is its software fully able (or can be upgraded to be fully able) to handle the new SMPTE DCPs with encrypted subtitles?

How much money would you save by buying the new projector with an Alchemy versus with an Enigma board or IMB? If the difference is not much, and your existing server is old enough that it's starting to incur maintenance expenses (e.g. new fans and hard drives), then the Alchemy may make sense.

One advantage would be that the Alchemy has now been in the field long enough to now be reasonably reliable, but is new enough that the software is being actively maintained. It is also fully OK with SMPTE DCPs.

But on the other hand, if you'd be looking at a five-figure difference between buying the Alchemy and not, and your current server does everything you need it to, then that would be an argument in favor of sticking with your current server.

Posted by Marlon Martins (Member # 8823) on 06-11-2017, 03:38 PM:

They will take the 10s in the process, we will stay with nothing from it

so as they will buy probably tomorrow, (they have ready for delivery) the options are the default alchemy or a ims2000

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 06-11-2017, 03:54 PM:

The Alchemy is nice and mature now. And small benefit - it comes from Barco as well and is well integrated with the projector. That is, for ease of use, and if there is a problem, they can't blame someone else.

- Carsten

Posted by Marlon Martins (Member # 8823) on 06-11-2017, 06:14 PM:

Alchemy it is then.

thanks again for all the knowledge, you guys are the best [Wink]

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 06-13-2017, 02:00 PM:

Agreed with Carsten even though the 2000 is now ok.
don't throw the S away. It's either the backplane or a formatter. The backplane is relatively cheap.

You never came back with test pattern results btw!
But a 19B will give you better picture overall. It features higher contrast ratio.