This is topic Doremi server on a virtual machine dilemma in forum Digital Cinema Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by Polona Van Langen (Member # 8322) on 11-03-2017, 03:53 AM:
Hi,
I work a mostly for film festivals in the technical department dealing with quality check and logistics of the DCPs. I would like to share some thoughts on the workflow.
Due to slow ingest during playout on the Doremi server it's common practice at festivals to ingest the films on a raidset using a separate Doremi machine and then replace the raidset of the playout machine and have the DCP's ready to play. The extra Doremi's are usually rented for the time of the festival.
It's possible to install Doremi software on a virtual machine and it works. With some tweaking even the ingesting to a physical raidset goes well. The raidset can afterwards be put in the playout server and it works just like if it was done on a original Doremiserver.
I think it's interesting to test this kind of things out and it's fun when it works. But I have second thoughts about it when it's used commercially. For example if a company builds such machine and offers it to a major film festival as a cheap and quick replacement for real Doremi servers. The festivals are always interested in solutions which can bring down the costs ... but is such a solution legal?
I wonder if there are more people around the world experimenting with virtual machines and looking for new solutions ... and or whether Dolby/Doremi is aware of this possibility.
Also any thoughts about alternatives for handling films at festivals would be appreciated.
Kind regards,
Polona
www.greendcp.nl
Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 11-03-2017, 04:14 AM:
Keep in mind that this creates a licensing issue. It might be interesting as a hobby project, but as soon as you're going to use this for commercial purposes, you're out there in the dark, without actual permission from Dolby/Doremi.
I think, in the future it should be possible to create playlists based on "externally" hosted content, like content on a network share (NFS or maybe even SMB). Ingesting a DCP would then be nothing more than scanning the metadata in the DCP and adding it to the content library.
This should also solve the problem of film festivals, where you can just preload a bunch of movies on a performant NAS and hook it onto your server or IMS.
Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 11-03-2017, 09:29 AM:
It's interesting to hear that this works at all. I would have thought that the Doremi software would simply not start on non-genuine hardware.
Have you thought about using PlayWhileIngest instead for festival purposes? I know it's not the same as a RAID swap, and I know other festivals use the RAID swap approach as well.
I guess one would need to read the license terms for the Doremi servers. I never bothered looking at them, as I never saw much sense in using the software on anything else than an original Doremi machine. I don't think Dolby/Doremi allows this. Would be easier if Dolby finally enabled larger discs for their Doremi server line. Can't be so complicated. It's strange that all server manufacturers go the IMS way which means even more limited storage options. At least some support DirectPlay from ingest media. Playing from a NAS is a solution, but as long as that isn't a common feature for most server types, it seems you are stuck with the likes of the Christie IMS, and that wasn't Christies most lucky throw as far as reliability goes. And then manufacturers very often only allow their own IMS to be used in their projectors.
- Carsten
Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 11-04-2017, 07:53 AM:
What about configure both server to work with the projector and just swap the network/SDI/AES connections every time they need to play? This way you would not need to shutdown, no RAID failure risk, no tinkering with VM's. One server ingests while the other one plays.
Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 11-04-2017, 10:11 AM:
I guess the idea with the VM is to get rid of the need/cost for a second Doremi.
And there's the reason why Dolby doesn't like the idea of running their software on a VM.
Also, with a second Doremi and switching not just the RAID, but the whole machine, one would also need two sets of KDMs for encrypted content. The idea of an ingest station is not so bad.
- Carsten
Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 11-04-2017, 12:05 PM:
if it's an IMB then there is no need for the second KDM - but I guess you need to reboot everything every time as PCIex cannot be hotplugged.
Indeed you need two sets of KDMs (well, you need the correct KDM for each clip) but I wouldn't like the idea of swapping physical HDD's every time. If you lose the HDD's you lose everything while two connected servers sound like a safer solution to me.
Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 11-04-2017, 03:02 PM:
With the Doremi drive carriers, no big deal.
- Carsten
Posted by Polona Van Langen (Member # 8322) on 11-05-2017, 06:28 AM:
Hi,
There is for example a gala location for premieres where there is a spare server and spare projector, but at big festivals it's impossible to have a spare doremi at each room.
The raid swap is necessary when you have 25+ screening locations. Most of them are running their own shows until the day when the festival starts so the storage is full of their films. Other locations are built just for the festival period. That makes the screening rooms pretty much unavailable during the preparation weeks before the festival.
Therefore the raidsets with festival films are prepared at one central location by using rented Doremi servers (those are later installed at the locations built specially for the festival).
On the raidsets the films for the first few days are ingested, the rest is done later via network or with cru drives for external locations.
The Doremi will instal on a VM or with a bit of luck even on an old PC tower that you wanted to throw away. With the new software version there is a chance of adding USB3 or a faster ethernet card.
This are hobby experiments and due to licence and legal rights issues not suitable for professional use at festivals.
Would there be a chance to get a legal Dolby/Doremi software licence one can install on a non server computer or VM for ingesting purposes?
Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 11-05-2017, 10:59 AM:
In fact you are lucky that all/most screening locations are equipped with the same server supporting the drive carriers. Many festivals use a wild mix of servers.
You may of course ask Dolby for a license - but I assume it's more likely that they donate a server for the festival than they allow the use of their software on VMs or other hardware.
- Carsten
Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 11-07-2017, 02:38 AM:
I also highly doubt Dolby would provide such a license, it could create some precedences they're most likely not entirely comfortable with.
I guess Doremi/Dolby never envisioned their software being used outside of the context of their servers. The use is also pretty limited, so I guess that's why they never really bothered to do some thorough hardware checks. For us it's good to know the Linux kernel is a pretty standard kernel that also boots in VM Ware. It only enlarges the pool of possible spare parts like motherboards.
I've seen some festivals exclusively relying on live-play features for certain locations. The biggest downside is obviously the lack of automation, then again, it's often not such a big deal to have someone present on the location to push the right buttons.
Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 05-13-2019, 03:53 PM:
It has been 552 days since the last post.
Posted by Jesper Meng (Member # 7575) on 05-13-2019, 03:53 PM:
I use a rugged Linux pc with Cine digital software for this purpose.
I can forward the TMS server to the festival, they ingest their film, and then i just ingest when i have set up my cinema equipment. It works excellent.
Posted by Polona Van Langen (Member # 8322) on 10-17-2019, 06:19 AM:
This is a part from Doremi licence agreement.
2. Except as part of the DCP2000 and/or expressly permitted in this
License, you may not make any use of the Software, which would
violate Doremi Labs, Inc.'s rights under copyright law including
but not limited to incorporating this Software into another
software, into an operating system, or into firmware (firmware is
defined as embedded software incorporated into a hardware
device). You may not attempt to reverse engineer any of the
Software.
Your rights under this License will terminate
automatically without notice from Doremi Labs, Inc. if you fail
to comply with any term(s) of this License.
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 10-17-2019, 09:15 AM:
As the old Doremi HDSDI "Dolphin" media blocks die, this should be leaving a number of complete functional Doremi servers just without the ability to playback since the media block is dead. Why not pick up some of those on the used market cheap and use them for loading?
Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 10-17-2019, 05:04 PM:
I guess many of them get converted into a ShowVault/IMB system?
BTW - a while ago I generated an emergency backup USB stick of a ShowVault. For the fun of it, I inserted it into 'some' PC and bootet from it. I think it is doing nicely, however, as I am not a Linux buff, it was a bit of a hassle to configure the windows system (the original Doremis use an old ATI onboard graphics driver). If you find a suitable graphics card or integrated mainboard, it's no big thing. Yes, it certainly violates the license just as running it in a virtual environment.
- Carsten
Posted by Christian Hove (Member # 6743) on 10-22-2019, 07:01 AM:
Carsten:
I know how to do the automated backup of the configuration files onto a FTP server - But how do I generate such a bootable emergency backup stick including the system binaries?
Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 10-22-2019, 07:31 AM:
There is a technote explaining this on Doremis (now legacy) service portal. If you have access, use the seach function with 'EBUSB'.
You need to open a shell window and issue a command that does a block copy from the boot disc to a standard USB stick (minimum 4GB size).
dd if=/dev/sdg of=/dev/sdh<enter>
(if your devices are where they usually are on a Doremi - the technote also explains how to make sure this is the case).
Initially, all classic Doremi servers came with such a stick in the box. Few people understood what it was good for, so I guess most of them disappeared the usual way.
The software is universal, so, it will work with a DCP-2000, DCP-2K4 and ShowVault - as long as they are based on the Supermicro X7SBE mainboard, not the outdated Intel board. For the more recent X10 boards, I don't know. The backup procedure will probably work as with the X7, but the stick may not work across mainboard types.
To use the stick in an emergency situation, you need to open the server housing and swap it with the internal USB extension cable that leads to the original Boot USB memory card (USB6) close to the leftmost slot.
- Carsten
Posted by Christian Hove (Member # 6743) on 10-23-2019, 04:48 AM:
Thanks Carsten!
I have access to the Doremi service FTP server (ftp.doremicinema.com), but searching through the PDF files I do not find "EBUSB" anywhere.
Christian
Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 10-23-2019, 06:28 AM:
I don't think it's on the FTP site.
I'll send you a link and credentials privately.
What I did a couple of times sucessfully was to backup the system settings using the backup manager (to the RAID or USB stick), then, after having booted off a USB stick, restored the systems settings from the backup off another system.
The USB stick is a useful option or workaround if for some reason your main software has been broken, or if you quickly want to try out different versions without risking your main software.
- Carsten