Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Distributors, dcp and kdm's

This is topic Distributors, dcp and kdm's in forum Digital Cinema Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Armand Daiguillon (Member # 10334) on 01-10-2018, 02:27 AM:

Hi all,

I was hoping someone here could offer me some guidance.
Does anybody know if any distributors are "less stringent" on their dci compliance requirements for exhibitors ?
I know 1st run is out of the question - but what else might be available ?
The reason I ask is that we will be using a computer software based system, this hardware can provide proper dci server certificates to generate a proper kdm to play the dcp's. So its secure there - but the projectors would be in small screening rooms, so there are no compliant projectors.
Because of that we would be declined by most for not being on the "approved equipment list". I know some indie distributors dont care (even will release on bluray) - but I need as much info as possible.

I need to know what product (if any) I could get and from whom.

I've emailed some distributors...and film bookers. But no one responds.

Any help would be super gratefully appreciated [Smile]

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 01-10-2018, 03:23 AM:

Your mileage may vary, but I'm pretty sure you'll have a hard time getting a KDM from any of the big studios if your projector isn't on the Approved Equipment List, even if it's for one of their boutique titles. It's often easier to get a BluRay and screen that one as an alternative. Nowadays, with a higher end, good calibrated non-DCI projector and sources like 4K BluRays, the results can be close to indistinguishable from a proper DCP presentation. If you have a contract in place with the studios, screening a BluRay is usually perfectly legal, as long as you pay the licensing fees due.

Independent studios and distributors are usually not a big problem, they're usually happy to have you in their network. For film festivals we've used a mix of proper DCI projectors and high-end non-DCI setups with NeoDCP. The biggest gripe about NeoDCP is the lack of external automation cues, but it works pretty well otherwise.

Instead of trying to deal with the big studios directly, you should try to get a booker. Most studios don't really like to deal with those "small fish" directly. A booker manages multiple smaller and medium sized cinemas and can therefore increase the volume.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 01-10-2018, 07:27 AM:

It's a local issue, you have to talk to each and every distributor. In Europe, there are quite a few that do not encrypt at all, so don't care. We do have some non-DCI playout systems in use in Germany, so, yes, some distributors issue KDMs, most do not. I don't think anyone in the US can issue a simple statement towards who does and who doesn't.

Keep in mind, there are distributors with an opinion, and KDM management services with operating constraints. If a distributor is using a certain service/software that prevents KDM creation for non-DCI compliant systems, you may be out of luck, even if that distributor would be open, he will hardly change his KDM provider/system just for you.

- Carsten

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 01-10-2018, 10:08 AM:

Agreed with Carsten - mom-and-pop shop arthouse distributors who make their DCPs and KDMs on a Mac Pro in their bedroom will probably give you KDMs without any problem, but Deluxe/Technicolor ... ? Forget it.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 01-10-2018, 10:37 AM:

Unless this is for a very temporary installation, I would suggest re-considering any business model that relies on nonstandard equipment and special treatment from distributors. They may say today that you will be given content, but they are entirely within their rights to say the opposite tomorrow, leaving the exhibitor with no recourse.

I would caution against Blu-Ray due to the unreliability factor. That is a format that works best in one's living room, and not in cinemas.

Barco, Christie, and NEC all make DCI-compliant equipment for screening rooms and smaller venues. I would recommend checking out what is available before deciding that DCI equipment is not an option.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 01-10-2018, 11:00 AM:

quote: Scott Norwood
I would caution against Blu-Ray due to the unreliability factor. That is a format that works best in one's living room, and not in cinemas.

With a simple ripping tool and DCP-o-Matic it's not a big deal to convert a BluRay into a proper DCP, it's something I've had to do countless of times, due to the simple lack of availability of a proper DCP. So, there are no reliability issues there, the reliability issues are primarily with the distributors. [Wink]

Posted by Alan Gouger (Member # 543) on 01-10-2018, 11:39 AM:

Here in the states you can secure DCPs from Swank and Criterion. They both represent most of the major and mini major studios. You can secure a license for non dcp media as well.

https://www.swank.com/
http://www.criterionpicusa.com/

Posted by Armand Daiguillon (Member # 10334) on 01-10-2018, 01:12 PM:

Thank you for the responses.
Regarding swank/criterion - they only license for things already on home video, so thats not really what I need.
I was hoping someone knew some of the specific indie/whoever distributors who are less picky. I know anything from the majors is a no go.
One booker (the only one to actually get back to me, have had bad experiences where bookers just dont return phone calls/emails) they suggested I look into Eclairplay which looks interesting but I don't know anybody who uses it and am finding info on it hard to come by.

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 01-10-2018, 01:23 PM:

What is it that you're actually trying to do?

It sounds like you're not operating a public movie theatre (arthouse or whatever), but some kind of private screening rooms in homes or ???

You might get better suggestions from the folks here if you clarify your purpose or end use.

For individual home use (or family viewing), if that's what you're doing, most distributors will probably tell you to purchase their video at Walmart. Public exhibition is a different animal, but it's not clear that's what you're doing.

Posted by Armand Daiguillon (Member # 10334) on 01-10-2018, 02:16 PM:

It is for public viewings - without going into an overly long list of specifics, its basically a lot of 2 person viewing booths using 4k standard monitors for viewing. PC's play the dcp (can handle enrypted dcp) and pipe it to whichever booths bought tickets for that showtime.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 01-10-2018, 06:59 PM:

The market for non-fully-DCI compliant systems is very small - that is reflected by the tiny known scope of distributors supporting such models. I can only repeat - you need to make a list of all remotely relevant distributors and call/email every one of them to get a decent answer, I am afraid.
I have some insight into the german sub-DCI public presentation 'scene', but for other countries...

- Carsten

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 01-11-2018, 09:25 AM:

We've had a small screening room which just seated 4 people in the past. We had a mix of both a DCI compliant projector and two high-end non-DCI projectors in there. With the proper sizing and lenses it works even for small rooms. The non-DCI setup actually offered better image quality than the DCI setup, but it was no option for us to not be able to play encrypted DCPs.

Besides the odd-ball independent release, you will not get anything that's not already released on rental and streaming on non-DCI certified equipment. It's simply NOT going to happen. The only exceptions I've seen are high-profile events, were the equipment at hand simply can't be made DCI compliant within the given time-frame.

Although the many leaks that have occurred over the years might make you think otherwise, Hollywood's livelihood depends upon protecting their high-profile releases from prematurely leaking.

While a standard 4K TFT or even OLED screen will still be much cheaper than any DCI projector setup, you should really look at going the "proper" route. There are refurbished units available at reasonable prices, those units will be able to play any DCI content you can get your hands on. If your business model doesn't work with those kind of investments, it's probably better not even to try it anyway. [Wink]