Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Cannot connect to Barco Alchemy FTP

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Posted by Marlon Martins (Member # 8823) on 04-04-2018, 09:48 PM:

Hi guys, me again, with a tiny question: is there any config necessary to enable FTP access on a Barco Alchemy server? we have 2 DP2K-19B, one with Barco Alchemy and the other with doremi showvault. also have now a media server for the movies received via satellite. showvault transfer movies from satellite server fine. Alchemy transfer movies from satellite server fine. Alchemy transfer movies from showvault fine. BUT, showvault does not find FTP server on Alchemy.

then we tried directly connect via FTP (filezilla) on showvault to see if works fine, and works fine. direct connecting a notebook on the Alchemy, it does not find a FTP server to connect. ip settings are correctly set, lan cables too. we had the technician here today and it did not find a cause for this problem (he is not so experienced on Alchemy servers)

any possible reason for this weird behavior?

Posted by Ioannis Syrogiannis (Member # 3235) on 04-04-2018, 11:15 PM:

Did you try to ping the alchemy server via the SV terminal?
Could it be that the subnet/subnet mask does not allow the server to connect to alchemy?
What was the way to try to connect from the notebook?
Was it also the FileZilla program, or something else?
"Direct connecting" means what ethernet port?
Again, what was the network configuration scheme?
I am afraid that "ip settings are correctly set, lan cables too" does not say much when you want to troubleshoot.

Then again, that's me. Someone else might have a more educated guess.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 04-05-2018, 07:56 AM:

The necessary information and login credentials to access the FTP server of the Alchemy is somewhat hidden under 'DCP publishing' in the Barco Commander and Web Commander user manuals. Don't know why they put it (only) there. But, Commander and Web Commander user manuals are simply 'the' user manual for the ICMP. At some point, they may make the logins configurable in Communicator as well, which would aid a bit in finding them.

- Carsten

Posted by Marlon Martins (Member # 8823) on 04-07-2018, 11:24 PM:

quote: Ioannis Syrogiannis
Did you try to ping the alchemy server via the SV terminal?

no, thinking back this should be the first thing i should have done... [Frown]

quote: Ioannis Syrogiannis
Could it be that the subnet/subnet mask does not allow the server to connect to alchemy?

i don't think so, they are 255.255.255.0
IP on the projectors only change X.X.X.1 and 2

quote: Ioannis Syrogiannis
What was the way to try to connect from the notebook?

notebook lan <> server lan (the lower left ports)

quote: Ioannis Syrogiannis
Was it also the FileZilla program, or something else?

we only tested with it, as it connected correctly on the SV, so we "assume" it would do the same on alchemy

quote: Ioannis Syrogiannis
"Direct connecting" means what ethernet port?

lower left ones on the projector

quote: Ioannis Syrogiannis
Again, what was the network configuration scheme?

ip 192.168.50.X (1 and 2), mask 255.255.255.0

@Carsten
we didn't get a login error, the ftp client or the "test" on the SV get a timeout error. they don't find the projector ftp server.

i will try again tomorrow, will be back with the results. thanks for the help guys, you are the best [Wink]

Posted by Stephan Shelley (Member # 8587) on 04-08-2018, 12:00 AM:

Just to be sure your talking about the Ethernet 1 or 2 on the alchemy board and not the ports on cinema controller board you are plugging into.

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 04-08-2018, 08:25 AM:

Same question... the ICMP accepts control comms on the projector IP address through the CCB ports but not ftp... for connections to LAN 1 and LAN 2 on the ICMP this is reversed. Both ICMP ports are on DHCP from the factory, port setup is with Communicator.

Posted by Marlon Martins (Member # 8823) on 04-08-2018, 11:25 AM:

mmm, this may be my mistake... but why it works on finding the other servers ftp via that port? the upper right ports are on different network (10.230.192.X).

will have to test a bit i think...

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 04-08-2018, 02:10 PM:

ICMP is very different from Doremi, is all I can say.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 04-08-2018, 02:58 PM:

Make sure you choose an IP on your notebook in the same subnet as that of your ICMP. If your subnetmask is 255.255.255.0, then that means that everything that shares the same FIRST three octets in your IP address is in the same subnet. So 192.168.77.4 and 192.168.77.7 are in the same subnet. 192.168.77.4 and 192.168.78.7 are not.

See if you have the "telnet" utility installed on your notebook. If not, Google "install telnet" for your apropriate OS.

Make sure you temporarily disable your local firewall. This includes stuff like the Windows Firewall, but also Norton Internet Security, etc.

Now, start a console (or DOS box when running Windows) and type:

Step 1:
ping <LAN icmp IP>

Step 2:
telnet <LAN icmp IP> 21

replace <LAN icmp IP> with the LAN IP address of your ICMP.

If step 1 fails with something like "destination unreachable", then your network connectivity is broken. See if you plugged in the right ports on the ICMP. The LAN ports, if memory serves right, are on the right side of the Alchemy.

If step 1 succeeds, for step 2, see if the FTP login prompt of the ICMP FTP server appears.

If you do not get a login, then for some reason, the FTP server on your ICMP isn't running. You can try to fix it by restarting the ICMP, if that doesn't help, you might contact Barco for assistance.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 04-08-2018, 03:07 PM:

quote: Marlon Martins
mmm, this may be my mistake... but why it works on finding the other servers ftp via that port? the upper right ports are on different network (10.230.192.X).

There is bridging between the cinema controller and the ICMP, however, that may not work for incoming ftp connections. Also, the cinema controller board ethernet is very slow compared to the ICMPs Gigabit interfaces. In general, it should work if you have the SV control net connected to the Barco cinema controller, and the SV data/content network connected to e.g. the first ICMP ethernet port.

While you are allowed now to have all three Barco network interfaces on the same subnet since some firmware release, I guess it is still advisable to separate them. Otherwise, you may actually end up ingesting content through the cinema controller. We only use that port for control and kdm ingest. Even ingesting trailers is too slow.

- Carsten

Posted by Ioannis Syrogiannis (Member # 3235) on 04-09-2018, 01:03 AM:

I 'll just repeat what the rest of the guys wrote:
The three ethernet ports (work as a switch, they use the same controller) on the cinema controller board of the projector are not the proper way to transfer content.
As far as I 've seen, and evidently you also have, ftp connection to the server is not possible.
Even if it was possible, regardless of the ability of Doremi products to do so, it is not advisable to use the same ethernet controller for both remote-controlling and moving big data files. You might need more ethernet cables and/or switches for that, but safety comes first when you have customers to serve and you need them happy.

You have to configure one of the ICMP ethernet ports. (Different controllers used, so you can configure each port to a different IP scheme. I guess that you won't have to configure both. One would be sufficient.)
For testing, you can follow the (very) thorough guide Marcel made for you.
ShowVault have two ethernet ports (and controllers) also. Once you verify that your problem was using the projector's network, instead of the server one, you can configure the one you prefer for FTP connection to the Alchemy server. Have in mind that there are two sets of credentials to create an FTP connection to an Alchemy server. Transferring data between the two servers will work with either one, exporting DCP(ackages) for external use will have to do with the one using the username "ftpdcps".

In any case, step one is to figure out the network settings and the physical connection.
If you find yourself in trouble from then on, you know where to post a reply.
:-)

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 04-09-2018, 01:26 AM:

quote: Carsten Kurz
There is bridging between the cinema controller and the ICMP, however, that may not work for incoming ftp connections.

Afaik, FTP traffic is not bridged/NATed over this connection.

FTP has an additional problem, whereas the native (non-passive) protocol opens the DATA TCP connection from the server to the client, which increases difficulty to correctly "bridge" it.

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 04-09-2018, 08:15 AM:

I'm not sure about this bridging. They look like separate networks to me, the projector somehow configures the system to allow server control connections - either from Commander (on a DCTP touchpanel or a networked PC) or via the ICMP WebGUI - on the projector's IP address through the CCB ports.
When working on the server in Communicator connected to the projector, the first time you try something on the server a window pops up asking if you want to use a different IP address for it: I have always declined and don't know why it asks this. This pops up doing a diags package or cloning if you haven't connected to the ICMP previously in a Communicator session.
I do know that you can not connect to the server for control with the webGUI or with Commander on the ICMP's LAN1 or LAN2. These are for content transfer only as far as I can tell.
Also I have tried ftp through the projector address and it does not work. I haven't tried ftp through the ICMP LAN ports except using a GDC TMS system, and that does do transfers via an ICMP LAN port.
One thing I don't understand is why some content will not ingest in an ICMP that does ingest on a Doremi. Some will scan and ingest but the CPL is unplayable with "missing assets", and some don't scan. The GDC TMS "Black MOS" clips are invisible to an ICMP, the TMS can not transfer them and they don't show on a scan if exported to a USB stick.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 04-09-2018, 09:37 AM:

These special clips may not be standard DCPs. Some servers keep black in special formats to allow it to play for different durations.

As I said, I have no problem to ingest from SMB and ftp, both KDMs and DCPs, through the cinema controller board. It's just very slow. Getting into the ICMP from an external FTP client may just not be supported by the bridging function. No big deal, I mean, there is a reason to have separate control and content networks.

- Carsten

Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 11-04-2019, 02:07 PM:

It has been 574 days since the last post.

Posted by Jesper Meng (Member # 7575) on 11-04-2019, 02:07 PM:

Did you succeed? I have a similar setup, and for now i can pull dcp's from Ims2000 to ICMP and the other way. I can FTP to IMS but not to ICMP. Very anoying.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 11-04-2019, 04:00 PM:

From the FTP section of the Commander manual:

'Upload files on the server is not allowed. The only way to transfer contents on your ICMP is to ingest it.'

- Carsten

Posted by Stephan Shelley (Member # 8587) on 11-06-2019, 05:22 PM:

While you may not be able to send or push content to the ICMP you can pull content via FTP from other servers and such. You set it up as an ingest source. I have done this with a cineconductor and a Dolby dss server. Hint on the DSS server if you are using older software make the directory you start looking for content in the generated packages directory and it works fine.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-07-2019, 06:06 AM:

To me...they should allow both push and pulls. I can't tell you how many times I've expedited content transfers or KDMs but merely pushing that content to the server. It is another strike against the ICMP as too restrictive or unnecessarily cumbersome (they still need to lose the requirement that it will only play a DCP if a DCP format is selected on the projector (or the special black pattern).

I year or two back Disney played with having an Olaf short on the head of a feature. I kept the CPL at the ready for the multitude of people that it confused. On a Dolby DSS server...just drop in the CPL and all was good. Not every site (particularly singles) have a TMS so a PC might be the source of the content and most PCs are not set up as FTP servers to allow the ICMP to pull the content.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 11-07-2019, 07:46 AM:

I'm wondering how they deal with content transfers to the ICMP in an actual TMS environment - I guess with other servers, the TMS can FTP/push content and KDMs to it. With the ICMP, will the TMS have to tell the ICMP where the content is and that it should ingest it by itself? Or is there a 'hidden' push feature not accessible to the mean user?

- Carsten

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-07-2019, 08:04 AM:

The TMS systems I've worked with have done pulls and everything is done with some sort of web protocols so there is likely complicated means to perform the push/pulls. Once the commands are known and what the server can do, it is a matter of creating the scenario for the automation of it.

Since every TMS company would like you to use theirs, they have a motivation to overcome obstacles that companies put in their path in order to be the most compatible.

FWIW...the Dolby TMS (formerly Doremi TMS) supports the ICMP as the only non Doremi/Dolby servers so it couldn't be too insurmountable. Dolby and Doremi were/are the more flexible servers for how content can be pushed or pulled (where I think the DSS server really wins on being able to drag-n-drop content or kdms right to their FTP folder.

I believe every major TMS system has the IMCP in their list of compatible servers. It wasn't always easy as I recall release notes from several where they were very ICMP specific in overcoming issues...that may just be because they are the new commers. I expect similar things for the CMS5000 (QSC) as it hits the streets.