Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Subtitling workflow

This is topic Subtitling workflow in forum Digital Cinema Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Rayjohn Tagayon (Member # 9659) on 04-24-2018, 07:43 AM:

Subtitling usually starts at the early stage in our current workflow, after an edit is locked and approved. We usually go and do the subtitles simultaneous to the color-grading, sound design etc.

My concern is that at this point the files we use are still at 23.976 fps, which is as is the framerate the files are shot. But when we deliver it to dcp it will be transformed into 24 fps. Some festivals require their dcp to not have any embedded subtitles in it, and we just have to send xml's or srt's or whatever they need. The problem is that these files are done on 23.976 and not on 24fps. How do you think we can remedy this situation?

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 04-24-2018, 07:51 AM:

It depends on the specific file handling and conversion steps, but, as a general hint, many subtitling tools support frame rate conversion from/to typical values, so, you load your subtitle file, find 'frame rate' or 'time base' conversion, hit '23.98->24', and that should solve the issue.

Why are you editing in 23.976? Are these features that are created also for Bluray or broadcast, and the 24fps version is only created for DCP? So I guess, the subtitles are used for both Bluray/Broadcast, and DCP?

Then the only solution is to indicate the frame rate reference in the file/project names, and do a 23.976->24 fpsconversion as indicated above for the 24fps version.

I know that some people actually do this time conversion in EXCEL, if their subtitle file is in an Excel file or EXCEL compatible.
But, as I wrote above, there are tools that compute these typical frame rate/time relations immediately.

- Carsten

Posted by Rayjohn Tagayon (Member # 9659) on 04-24-2018, 11:52 AM:

Hi carsten, thanks for the hint. I'm actually currently utilizing such tools at the moment, like michael cinquinns dcp subtitling tool. Subsimple's online fcpxml to srt converter and some of aegisub's and subtitle edit's features. So the simplest answer to my question is convert framerate using these tools.

As an answer to your question. Yes these features usually end up in blurays and as prores deliverables sent to tv channels here in my country after the theatrical run is done. Is it common to edit in 24 fps in other countries?

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 04-24-2018, 01:00 PM:

I can only speak for 'features' that go into the cinema market. Usually, most 'films' are made for cinema, and will be shown in cinema first. Also, with regulations towards hearing and visually impaired people, more and more features need to be presented with captions, subtitles, HI/VI tracks already in cinema. So, it is natural that working on HI/VI and captions/subtitles begins during the prostproduction phase and cinema mastering, because these add-ons are needed for the cinema release already. At that stage, the footage is probably 24fps most of the time. Except when for some reason the major capture format was 23,976 (e.g. using non-strictly pro cinema cameras). So, I guess, for these reasons, most of the time, editing time base for subtitles and captions will be 24fps.

In your case, that may be different, and the DCP creation may be a side path chosen once the major post production and mastering phase is over. In that case, the 23.976 conversion for video, audio and subtitles should probably be a combined effort towards the DCP. Do you create DCPs yourself?

http://www.jubler.org/features.html

- Carsten

Posted by Rayjohn Tagayon (Member # 9659) on 04-25-2018, 07:31 AM:

Understood. Maybe it's the way it is here. The end result should almost always be a DCP but with it comes the blu-rays and prores files. DOP's mostly shot in Alexa prores 4444, 23.976 so the proxies are make are of the same-frame rate.

Yes I do the DCPs myself, but always on davinci resolve's easyDCP plugin so I have no advanced DCP building skill at the moment. I only know how to assemble the video and audio, route 5.1 and hit render on it. I still have a heck of a lot to learn

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 04-25-2018, 05:31 PM:

I don't know if it helps in your current situation, but still:

https://dcpomatic.com

It has options for frame rate adaption for video, audio and subtitles. I think you could even use it JUST to convert the subtitle time base.

- Carsten

Posted by Gunnar Asgeirsson (Member # 3882) on 04-26-2018, 03:52 AM:

Why are those festivals asking for the DCP without subtitle?
Are you then sending them unencrypted DCP or also DKDM key?

It is very strange if some festival is asking for the DCP without subtitle if they are not translating the film and need to make new OV or supplementary version file.

The company i work for is running cinema and are film distributor and if we are not going to translate the movie and screen it with our "foreign language" subtitle then we just want to get all DCP´s ready to be screened with English subtitle (if the movie is not in English)
Do you not mean they want the OV clean and the subtitle as VF? (Version file/supplementary pack)

About the creation of the xml subtitle itself i use the software EZTitles to create the XML subtitle file and then that file i import into our DCP mastering system (DKDM key from the production company is required if the OV is encrypted)

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 04-26-2018, 05:41 AM:

quote: Rayjohn Tagayon
So the simplest answer to my question is convert framerate using these tools.

http://www.nikse.dk/SubtitleEdit/Help

Q: Why can't Subtitle Edit change frame rate?
A: Well, it can. Check Synchronization -> Change frame rate.

- Carsten