Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: The Happy Prince

This is topic The Happy Prince - HOH version. in forum Digital Cinema Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 08-03-2018, 05:48 AM:

Has anybody else in the UK run this? Did you have any problems with the HOH subtitles? Ours stopped at just about 1:28:28 into the film, at a scene change. We only had one screening of the HOH version, but played through the affected section several more times after the show and each time the subtitles were lost at exactly the same point, so it doesn’t look like a problem with our equipment.

Posted by Steve Moore (Member # 4753) on 08-03-2018, 10:22 AM:

Hi Stephen,

We played it, in Leeds for just one show also and were not aware of any issues with it, though I didn't watch it all the way through, personally; ho one complained on the way out.

However, we did receive this email, below, the day after we played it. Could it be that it is something to do with the various languages that might have upset it?

"Attention all staff,

When playing the feature presentation of The Happy Prince the sections of the feature that contain French and Italian dialogue are subtitled.

The subtitles are present within the OV, please ensure that your projector or server has subtitles enabled so that these outplay correctly.

If you have concerns with this please don’t hesitate to contact me

Cheers
Jason

Jason Harrod
Senior Account Manager"

Motion Picture Solutions Ltd

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 08-03-2018, 12:58 PM:

Thank you Steve, but I don't think this can be the problem. The subtitles on the French and Italian sections of the film play fine on both versions, though I'm told by yesterday's projectionist that that there are no such scenes in the film after the point where the HOH subtitles suddenly end. Subtitles also play fine on other films; quite a high proportion of the films we show are subtitled, so if there was any general problem with showing subtitles we would soon know about it.

The fact that the HOH subtitles on this film suddenly stop at exactly the same point each time we play that section of the film does seem to me to suggest that there is something wrong with the DCP, but neither the distributor nor MPS is aware of any such problem.

We did have a subtitle problem recently caused by an intermittent fault with our equipment, but as would be expected, this happened at random points in the film, not at exactly the same place each time.

Posted by Harold Hallikainen (Member # 5405) on 08-03-2018, 03:55 PM:

I'm guessing that these are open captions (captions on-screen). Are these server or projector rendered? Does the CPL look correct? I suspect they are disappearing on a reel boundary, and there MAY be an issue in the CPL or a missing timed text file. Does it play properly on other systems in this theater (assuming there are others)?

Harold

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 08-03-2018, 06:59 PM:

Stephen - what server and projector? Subtitles misteriously disappearing does happen occasionally, if you read release notes of server and projector software updates, these issues are addressed frequently. It should now have become more solid with recent years updates, but that means, you need to make sure your equipment runs on current software. Of course, it is possible that some equipment has trouble rendering the subtitles, while other gear doesn't.

- Carsten

Posted by Steve Moore (Member # 4753) on 08-03-2018, 07:13 PM:

Just for info purposes, our setup is Doremi server running 2.8.20, with subtitle engine currently off; the projector is Christie CP2000, but i don't recall the software version on that, without looking, is doing subtitles.

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 08-04-2018, 07:58 AM:

Personally I would try subtitling in the server rather than the series 1 projector.

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 08-04-2018, 11:07 AM:

Doremi DCP2000 server, NEC NC800c projector. Don't know software versions offhand, but updates were applied during the last service visit, a couple of months or so ago. The cinema is now closed for just over two weeks for further refurbishment work. We have no other systems, this is a single screen venue. I do have the DCP-o-Matic player on one of my laptops, but the DCP in encrypted, and I obviously don't have a KDM to enable me to play it on the laptop.

I'm pretty sure that the projector is rendering the subtitles. We show a lot of subtitles without problems, the only problem we ever had with them was quite recently when an equipment fault caused the subtitles to disappear from time to time. This was quickly fixed, but the problem then occurred at random, not always in exactly the same place, as is happening in this case. If I pause playback after the subtitles disappear and step back three minutes then they come back, but then disappear again at the same point. If I allow the film to run through to the end then they do not come back.

Have played the whole of another subtitled film since this happened, without problems.

Posted by Harold Hallikainen (Member # 5405) on 08-04-2018, 12:27 PM:

I agree with Dave that it would be good to try server-side rendering. In general, it's less complex for the server to render the subtitles, so I THINK it would be more reliable (and welcome comments on this). External rendering requires a lot of communications between the server and the projector, and there are lots of places for things to go wrong including different interpretations of standards between the projector and the server. Ideally the server uses a single interpretation of the standards. There is still, of course, a possibility of it being a content issue. That's where testing on other systems could help (in other theaters since this is a single screen). Are there any error messages in logs indicating a problem?

Good luck!

Harold

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 08-04-2018, 02:34 PM:

Oh, still that NC800 - it is a series 1 machine, and you should make sure it is really running the latest TI software (15.x). But - as you have a Doremi server, you should make yourself familiar with how to switch between projector and server side subtitling, since that can solve the occasional issue. It also offers the option to enable the onscreen display of (normally) closed captions for special screenings. It's just two mouse clicks away and you should probably learn how to do it.

- Carsten

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 08-05-2018, 08:35 AM:

I will be going in to the cinema later this week, and can check the software version.

Getting another cinema to try playing it not practical. It would mean finding a cinema who would be prepared to find time to ingest the film, and screen the affected part. There is a multiplex about one minute walk away, but contacting anybody there with any technical knowledge is impossible. Even finding somebody who can or will sell you a ticket if the self-service machines are not working is difficult. I still remember the difficulty I had retrieving one of our films which was delivered to them in error a couple of years ago. There are a couple of independent cinemas more like ourselves I could try, but they would need to have a kdm for the film, and neither of them are showing it at the moment, so would not have one.

Have read what the server installation manual has to say about subtitles - not much, but the first thing it says is to install the licence. I don't know if such a licence is installed. Again, will look this week.

Posted by Harold Hallikainen (Member # 5405) on 08-05-2018, 09:07 AM:

I was hoping there was another theater somewhere in the world that was running the film and could tell if there was an open caption problem. And, I forgot that Doremi had a license for everything. I did not know they had one for server rendered subtitles. I knew they had one to enable closed captions, but that license is now free.

Harold

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 08-06-2018, 05:31 AM:

There is no license for subtitles, There was one necessary for the CCAP driver, but even that is now history.

Doremi Manual 1.7

That manual has some minor errors around subtitle setup, but it should still show the way, it's not complicated.

- Carsten