Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Barco dp 2000

This is topic Barco dp 2000 in forum Digital Cinema Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Koroye Seitonkumo (Member # 10558) on 08-16-2018, 12:35 AM:

Hi.. I am a newbie here. In a bid to become DCI compliant, I have found a barco dp 2000.. at a reasonable price, and I am about to purchase this. Any thoughts on this choice of projector? For an Independent cinema?

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 08-16-2018, 02:42 AM:

It depends on quite a lot of details. In itself, the DP-2000 isn't a bad projector, but it's End of Life. So, getting spare parts for it might be difficult.

It also depends on the price you're paying, the condition the machine is in and how many hours it has been running. Also, don't forget to check whether or not the installed lens will work in your situation.

I guess you know you also need a DCI server that fits the configuration?

Posted by Koroye Seitonkumo (Member # 10558) on 08-16-2018, 06:04 AM:

Hello. This projector is said to have an integrated DCI server.. the lamp in it is a 750hrs lamp i was told and has 9 hours on it. They have calculated my screen and all that and came up with a lens that will work. They are adding 2 of that. Price is €12,000.00 Good enough?

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 08-16-2018, 09:57 AM:

I would say that in the USA this is is too high. That is about $14,000 US. More like $10,000 would be closer to reasonable. I've found these for $5,000 or less. Do you need a projector this big? What size is the screen? And there are any number of concerns of spare parts and cards that are DCI Spec. I would want to know more details about the server.

I would say wait for a series 2 projectors. Just my opinion of course.

Posted by Koroye Seitonkumo (Member # 10558) on 08-16-2018, 10:04 AM:

https://www.rebeam-shop.com/en/barco-dp-2000/a-31725/ that is the link to this projector.. my screen is pretty small 2 meters by a little less than 4 meters.
Will you be able to helo me find a DCI compliant projector for this with an integrated server? For less?

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 08-16-2018, 10:09 AM:

I agree with Sam that the price is somewhat on the high end, but it's hard to judge the local market. You can probably get it cheaper in Europe or U.S.A., but then you have to calculate in the shipping costs and potential import tariffs.

It's also worth something to have somebody around that has some experience with those machines, because setting them up correctly and maintaining them is still something that can best be done by a trained technician.

Also, if the price really includes a DCI server in good condition and the projector is in good condition too, then it's actually not that bad in my opinion.

If the lamp has a warranty of 750 hours, then it's probably a 2.4KW lamp. You should check the wattage of the installed lamp and match this against your screen size too.

Regarding the DCI server: This is a series 1 projector, so there must be some kind of external server. Please check the make and model of that.

Edit:

You posted the link while I was writing my post.

1. I don't see anything on that page that states it includes a DCI server. Maybe it's a special offer or you're missing something.
2. For a 4x2m screen, loaded with a 3kW lamp, this is highly overpowered. I'd try to get my hands on a 2nd hand NEC 900C with integrated IMS for roughly the same price. That's a Series II projector, will run more efficient, with less heat and noise and the lamps are cheaper than comparable Xenon lamps.

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 08-16-2018, 11:09 AM:

Projector hours "please ask"...?
This is a rather (very?) high price for a DP2000 unless it has VERY low hours. Note that the hours are saved on one of the cards, which could be from a different projector.
These can be found in the US for under USD$10,000.00, sometimes much less... firms liquidating closed cinemas don't always know what stuff is worth and the auctions rarely have reserve bids so they can be picked up a lot cheaper if you keep your eyes on auctions. Not much use for you I suppose, but still...
This is a massively overpowered machine for your screen. I'm not sure what the minimum lamp size is, maybe 1000W. And it's loud. The button panels on the DP2000s I handle have pretty much all failed by now, and the replacement is $$$... all you really need is one channel button that works to be able to clear security errors. You will need a PC to control it anyway, the control program is free at least. The Barco touchpanel is OK but very expensive for something a $100.00 used laptop can do.
There's no mention of a server in the linked ad and I don't know of any "integrated" server for a DP2000.
Series 2 projectors are rare in the used market. But they will show up, unless you really need a projector I would skip this one. Be aware that some parts - the light engine and TI boards particularly - are very costly, a failure may happen any time. Paying the nut for a new projector with warranty gives you a few years of no worries that way. A Barco 6E is all you need for your screen size, or equivalent NEC (avoid Christies).

Posted by Peter Hall (Member # 695) on 08-16-2018, 01:10 PM:

The spec lists a "warping" function, the price is way too high and there are no integrated servers for series 1 so I would walk away. Or buy one off us for around £10k !

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 08-16-2018, 02:00 PM:

Jump on it Peter! I noticed the warping feature as well as some inaccurate about the xenon bulb.

Posted by Chris Markiewicz (Member # 1415) on 08-16-2018, 02:42 PM:

I don't know if the photos on the link are the actual projector, but the fittings on that unit suggest a rental event projector, not a DCI unit. The warping feature would go along with an event projector as well.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 08-16-2018, 05:53 PM:

I don't know which options you have to buy used gear in your area or elsewhere including transport, but, for a series 1 projector, essentially no warranty, issues with replacement parts, local support, etc, I would stay away from that offer and think again. The second hand market for series 2 entry level machines is not huge, but it exists (e.g. NEC NC900). I have seen offers for NC900 including server for less than you have been quoted the DP2000. Not in Nigeria though.

- Carsten

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 08-16-2018, 11:24 PM:

The projector pictured looks like a DP2000 to me. Barco rental/AV projectors have a lifting rail assembly, at least all I've seen do. The eye bolts are screwed into threaded holes that all Barco cinema projectors have either for ceiling mounts or for stacking them... we've never used them for anything except attaching the touchscreen mount.
As for "warping"? Not too sure about that, but I have certainly managed to really screw up the image when trying things in screen file setup.
Assuming it's a DP2000 as advertised, it will be D-Cinema capable. A series 2 SDI projector could potentially come without a link decryptor but with S1 that's built into the interface card.

Posted by Koroye Seitonkumo (Member # 10558) on 08-17-2018, 12:53 AM:

I guess my search will continue.. as most comments advice I walk away. Thanks alot big friends.. plus I am open to offers..

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 08-17-2018, 10:46 AM:

Sorry to be a party pooper, but one of the reasons why the price may be so high (and agreed - that's at least 30% more than I'd expect to see a DP2000 with, say, 10 years' use and still in good operating condition go for in the US) could be the existence of significant import tariffs, and other legal and regulatory hurdles, that could mean that what you'd pay to import a projector from overseas would add up to a lot more than just the shipping bill. As an example, I understand that Brazil imposes a 100% import tariff on most industrial electronics (and I'm sure we've all read the news about a certain red-headed politician and his Chinese counterparts on that subject!), and there are other countries that won't release your projector from the bonded warehouse until it has had safety modifications done to the power supply and inspected, etc. etc.

If importing is something you want to look seriously at, it might be worth investing in an hour of two of time from someone who is an expert in the laws and regulations around importing industrial machinery into Nigeria, to make sure that you aren't going to be caught by any unforeseen gotchas.

Parts, service and support availability in Nigeria for whatever brand you choose to buy is another consideration. I'm guessing that because a DP2000 is being offered for sale in the country, that Barco has a support presence in Nigeria. But I'd definitely want to check this out, as well.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 08-17-2018, 02:12 PM:

The mentioned shop is a large german second hand AV equipment reseller. Nothing specific nigerian to it. I know these companies routinely charge too much, but at the same time, their prices are highly negotionable. Not enough in this case, I assume.

- Carsten

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 08-17-2018, 02:56 PM:

Sorry, didn't click on the link. The list price also does not include VAT (sales tax), either, which may or may not be payable on an item for export (or a foreign buyer may have to pay it and then claim it back from the German government - I don't know).

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 08-17-2018, 03:07 PM:

quote: Leo Enticknap
a certain red-headed politician

I've heard about other color schemes, but maybe they got lost in translation [Wink]

According to this site, there seem to be no specific tariffs on "Cinematic Projectors" or any parts thereof, you only pay the 5% VAT and I guess as a company, you're eligible to reclaim this VAT. There will probably also be a handling fee.

I've shipped all kinds of big ticket electronic items around the globe and the transport costs are often a killer, especially for heavy and fragile items like projectors. Shipping this from Germany to Nigeria can set you back a few thousand dollars if you want to have it there quickly by plane. Shipping it by container will be considerably cheaper, but that might easily take a week or 8 or even longer.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 08-17-2018, 05:31 PM:

And "Rocket launchers; flamethrowers; grenade launchers; torpedo tubes and similar projectors" are only taxed at 5%, too, so any Nigerians who wish to import one of Elon Musk's flamethrowers are all set!

Agreed on the shipping. When I had the contents of my apartment shipped (on an actual ship) from the UK to the USA, it took five months. They even gave me a tracking link for the container ship with my stuff on it while it was in transit, going the wrong way round the world. I guess the less hurry you're in, the better shipping rate you'll get, because that allows the shipper to utilize the slack capacity in the system, rather than have to create capacity where you need it.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 08-17-2018, 06:39 PM:

Elon Musk should've gone all in on the flamethrowers, Tesla would probably be profitable by now. [Wink]

Or even better, why not make those flamethrowers an option on your new car as the "F-package"? Who doesn't want Bond-style gadgets on their cars? Ludicrous mode gets a whole new dimension. And you'd even have a reason to visit regular gas stations once more. And you could bypass all kinds of tariffs by selling them as mobile flamethrowers instead of luxury cars.

Regarding the stuff that seemingly goes the wrong way around the planet and ends up being cheaper... That's not just unique to shipping, but also often with flights, where the indirect flights with one or two stopovers are far cheaper than direct flights. The same also happens in telecoms: the more direct the connection, the more you pay for your call. Cheap telcos often route international calls halfway around the globe to find the cheapest route to your destination. That usually doesn't improve the call quality and certainly not the latency (delay) on your connection...

Posted by Koroye Seitonkumo (Member # 10558) on 08-19-2018, 05:24 AM:

I might take it

2 free lenses, 1yr warranty, projector plus server, $13,500

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 08-19-2018, 10:55 AM:

How does that warranty work? Does the warranty cover unlimited hours within that year, or is it one year or 4,000 hours (for example), whatever is sooner? Is it parts and labor, or parts only? Would you have to ship the projector to Germany for service? Pay the expenses of a tech to fly out to you from Germany (that could easily add up to €2-3k, especially if (s)he has to stay for a day or two, awaiting parts)? Worth clarifying this before making a decision.

Also, what plan do you have in place for planned maintenance? At the very least you will need the air filters replaced and the cooling system flushed out, refilled and repressurized annually, and more frequent air filter replacements if the air quality in the booth is bad and/or the projector receives heavy use.

I would also suggest that you have them replace the coolant pump as a condition of buying the projector, unless they can prove that it was done within the last year. Per the Barco maintenance schedule, it's supposed to be replaced roughly every four years in a typical multiplex usage pattern (running 10-12 hours a day, seven days a week). So a typical DP2000 that has been maintained per the manufacturer's instructions should be on its third pump by now.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 08-19-2018, 04:23 PM:

Did you get an answer on the projector hours?

What server has been offered as part of the bundle?

Posted by Koroye Seitonkumo (Member # 10558) on 08-20-2018, 01:43 AM:

I raised these questions and I will get feedback today.

Posted by Tom Bert (Member # 5719) on 08-20-2018, 04:14 AM:

Note that Barco also offers a (limited) set of 2nd cinema projectors: http://outlet.barco.com/20-cinema

These are recent models (typically with some demo-hours), hence you won't find things like DP2000 in here.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 08-20-2018, 10:02 AM:

One final thought on this. Admittedly, I've only been servicing projectors for a living for 16 months, but in that time, every single time I've been called to fix a problematic DP1500, 2000 or 3000, the problem has been related to the liquid cooling system.

The one-way valves fail, the barb couplings to the DMD heatsinks get silted up and restrict the fluid flow (especially if it has been filled with cheap, no-name auto coolant in the past), the hoses get nuked by UV from the lamp and crumble, and the hose clamps eat through the cable at the barb couplings, causing a coolant leak, loss of pressure, and finally the lamp to shut off because of a DMD overheat error.

If I were contemplating putting a used Barco Series 1 projector back into revenue-earning service, therefore, I would want to replace the pump, all the hoses, all the cable clamps, and both of the one-way, quick release valves pre-emptively, at the outset, and then flush the living crap out of the circuit before finally refilling and repressurizing it. If the liquid cooling system is in good condition, then from what I've seen, these are nice, reliable machines, if being restricted to 2K, and no HDCP on the alternative content inputs, are not a problem for you. If the cooling system is not in good condition, you're in for a world of pain.

Posted by Koroye Seitonkumo (Member # 10558) on 08-20-2018, 10:07 AM:

Thanks a lot. I will keep this in mind

Posted by Koroye Seitonkumo (Member # 10558) on 08-21-2018, 05:00 PM:

Server GDC 2100A. Projector currently in transit from The US to germany. To put a 12month warranty, they need to Service it in Germany.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 08-22-2018, 04:58 AM:

The GDC server is an oldie, keep in mind that you, most likely need new disks for it.

You didn't state what kind of operation you want to run with the projector, but I wouldn't want to run a commercial operation based on those premises. If the projector needs to be shipped to Germany for support, you're easily facing weeks or even months with no show. Also, I guess it's you who's paying for transport in such cases? So, let's say you've got a relatively minor defect of something that would cost less than say $200 to replace, you still face potential shipping costs of several thousand dollars. Also, this is a real big beast, it takes quite some time to set-up... You don't want to move it around and put it into a big wooden crate every time something itches. And every time you get it back you also need to redo the calibration...

Now, there are quite some cinemas in Nigeria, so there must be some local service representatives for e.g. Barco. I would contact them to see if they can help you maintain a DP-2000.

Posted by Koroye Seitonkumo (Member # 10558) on 08-22-2018, 05:06 AM:

To be used in a cinema