Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: UPS selection

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Posted by Ewan Dunford (Member # 6982) on 09-26-2018, 06:04 AM:

Hi guys,
I wonder if I could be pointed in the right direction.
I want to get my Christie 4220 and Christie 2210 projector electronics on UPS's.
Ive seen a few of you mention you already do this. Can you recommend what I should be getting for each model? What do you put on yours?
Thanks

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 09-26-2018, 11:44 AM:

IMHO, they are all much of a likeness. There are some APC models which Doremi servers can automatically monitor via an installable hotfix, and initiate a shutdown procedure if the mains power goes out, and possibly some others that could be similarly rigged via GPIO, and/or IP control via APIs (though I've never installed the latter).

Keep in mind that if you don't have any kind of automated emergency action that is triggered by your UPS, the only point in having one is to mitigate the effect of a brownout (mains voltage drops momentarily, but doesn't actually fall to zero), or a very short actual blackout. It's not going to help you in the event of a power cut that goes on for any significant length of time.

The ideal is a unit that (a) has enough charge capacity to run the lamp extract fans for 5-10 minutes (to prevent lamp damage in the event of a prolonged power cut), and (b) can be automated, such that if the power goes out long enough for the battery to be drained to the point at which you only have just enough power left to perform an orderly shutdown of the projector and server, the shutdown process is started.

The lead acid batteries typically last for around 5 years before needing to be replaced. Running a UPS with worn out batteries can cause absolute chaos for the stuff connected to it. I recently had to do a prolonged troubleshoot of a Barco DP4K-23B/DSS220/cat745 installation. The projector's card cage electronics, plus the server and automation controller (MiT IMC2-B) were all powered through the (Tripp-Lite, though I don't think it made any difference) UPS. All sorts of wackiness was going on - cues would fire when not wanted and not when they were, the IMB would disconnect from the server in the middle of a show, the lamp would suddenly go out: it was like a colony of gremlins had taken up residence in the pedestal. Eventually, the UPS went out and simply refused to boot up again. I opened it, and found bulged and leaky batteries, which had been in use since 2011. Removed them, cleaned up the inside of the chassis, replaced the batteries, and that screen has run without any problems ever since.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 09-26-2018, 06:12 PM:

There are really only two in my book. APC and Tripplite. I know many broadcast engineers that hate hate hate the APC units, so I avoid them. Out of 334 Tripplites I installed (mostly the power regenerative type) I only had one failure after 8 years. This of course is with batteries being changed out every 4 years.

Mark

Posted by Ewan Dunford (Member # 6982) on 09-27-2018, 05:25 AM:

Thanks Gents! I should have been clearer in my original post but to read of experiences is also useful. I will only be selecting an APC product. I should have been more explicit in my request: What actual spec UPS do people use for the electronics on the projectors I listed?

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 09-27-2018, 07:14 AM:

The smallest ones I use are 1500VA and go up from there depending on the load.

Mark

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 09-28-2018, 07:53 AM:

The smallest I use is 1000VA if it is just supporting projector electronics or just a server. If it supports both, then I move up to 1500VA. I'd say 90% of our UPSes are 1500VA. We have just used the Tripplite brand (SMART and SMART Online) unless the customer specified APC. I generally prefer the double-conversion models (SMART Online) since it isolates the protected source from the incoming power.

Battery changeouts in 3-5 years, TOPS.

You'll find that Tripplite and APC essentially use the same model numbers for their various levels of UPSes (not exact, but pretty close so you can make a comparison).

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 09-28-2018, 09:14 PM:

I've stayed away from APC for the last several years....since Schnieder Electric bought them out, the quality control and designs are horrible.

There are many videos on YouTube of APC's failing, often with a lot of smoke and bangs. For example:

Crispy APC UPS

Stick with Tripp-Lite. [thumbsup]

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 09-29-2018, 12:06 PM:

Schneider or no, I still like Square-D QO load centers the best (by far)...#2 for me is Cuttler-Hammer.

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 09-30-2018, 10:49 AM:

quote: Steve Guttag
Schneider or no, I still like Square-D QO load centers the best (by far)...#2 for me is Cuttler-Hammer.

Agree 100%. The Square-D line is the best you can get in load centers and breakers...in over 40 years as an electrician, I have only had a few SqD breakers ever fail on me. CH is a brand I don't run into too often, (except for the City wellhouse out here, I have CH and Eaton panels, CH on the 120/208 side and Eaton on the 480/277 side) but CH is well made IMHO.

(Fun fact: The internal trip mechanisms are exactly the same in the SqD QO and Homeline breakers...only difference is the spring and mechanism for the red Visi-Trip (tm) indicator.)

What I don't get is why the APC line has become so horrible..did they hire grad school engineers for the APC line? Or did they hire disgruntled employees from a competitor's UPS line to design them?

The original, 1980-90's era APC were definitely built to the company's slogan "Legendary Reliability" back then. I still have a few of the them working nicely. But EVERY post-Schneider one has failed, some right out of the box, the rest before the first battery change was due. [thumbsdown]

Posted by Ewan Dunford (Member # 6982) on 09-30-2018, 11:57 AM:

Thanks guys! APC is ubiquitous here so it is what has been ordered. To be fair a lot of the equipment in use by IT has APC UPS on it and they’ve never had an issue -YET!!
Interestingly my eyes widened with the horror stories I was reading and the damning reports so investigated myself a bit and sure enough you see people on other websites which make for interesting reading regarding UPS issues and indeed people discussing APC and TrippLite briefly.

https://community.spiceworks.com/topic/882950-what-is-the-practical-service-lifetime-of-a-apc-ups-unit-fire-is-cool

Thank You all for the input!

Posted by William Kucharski (Member # 7246) on 11-03-2018, 07:11 PM:

APC is an interesting company. I’ve had several units and all but two have performed admirably, but of the two that failed, one refused to come out of “battery bad” mode no matter how many new battery packs were installed, and the other, an office unit, failed without notice in a way that it melted the case.

Interestingly enough it actually kept working, the smell being the way I knew something bad had occurred.

What bothered me is they weren’t interested in getting the unit back to see why it melted, they just offered me a discount on a new one.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-04-2018, 10:53 AM:

In all fairness to APC, Tripplite also does not repair any out of warranty units. Ditto for Planar and Planar monitors, but those are easy and cheap to convert to LED backlight.

Mark