Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: End Of Production GDC Models

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Posted by Jay Glaus (Member # 6011) on 12-01-2018, 03:38 PM:

I was just informed by one of my fellow drive in owners that they went to renew their warranties on their GDC servers and were informed that GDC was ending production on the SA-2100, SX-2001, and SX-2000 models, and were no longer issuing warranties.

Previously GDC would not even talk to you on the phone with any technical support or updates if you were not covered on a warranty but according to what I was told they will now provide support for the discontinued models since you cannot get a warranty anymore after March 1st 2019. And from the sounds of it, replacements parts may end up getting tricky depending on what you need.

Mine are currently warranted and I believe expire right after the new year. So I am going to see if I can get another warranty before March 1st providing it will actually last a year and not get cut off at March 1st.

I have 3 SX2000-AR's in operation, two of the IMB's were replaced a year ago, and the other IMB was replaced about a month ago. All of my equipment is protected on UPS's.

But my question is what am I supposed to do? I was told that GDC is offering a $900 credit towards an SX4000 for every old server returned, but that's not going to get me too far. What I am also worried about is what if a year or two down the road I lose an IMB and they do not have anymore available. So I'm almost forced to upgrade but I don't know how I'm going to swing this.

I've come off of the roughest two years of my life out here. Last year the weather was good but just about all of the movies way underperformed. This year the movies were good but my weather was horrendous. I had no spring, it was cold and rainy until June. I only had two busy months out of the whole year, June and July. After that it took a nose dive. And when I was hoping to do some business around Thanksgiving it was freezing and snowing.

Between the weather and everything else going against me, I don't know how you are supposed to deal with these expenses. My booths are 5 years old and already it looks like I'm going to be needing to upgrade soon.

Has anyone heard about this or have any input?

Posted by Stephan Shelley (Member # 8587) on 12-01-2018, 04:03 PM:

They will be offering software warranties and support. They are planning on having parts available for 2 more years but you will have to buy at market prices.I think they have a discount offer to upgrade your server as well.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-01-2018, 05:34 PM:

The mediablocks (and IMBs) will not be available.

The SX2001 and the original SX2000 will cease warranty support as of 3/31/19. The SX2000AR will cease warranty support 10/31/19.

In your case, you can get a warranty (pro-rated) to get you to 10/31/19 and then that is it. If you have an IMB go, that is the end of the server. From what I hear, the other server parts will likely be available until parts are exhausted. How did you like that short notice? They were making both the SX2001A and the SX2000AR THIS year!

They should have offered you the upgrade discount on either the SR1000 (the new kid on the block that can either function as a stand-alone server with the Enterprise storage or function as a streaming server with a 1TB cache drive from a central storage unit (only good up to 2K) or the SX4000 (good up to 4K and more of a traditional IMB/storage unit system).

Note, for those with Dolby DSS servers, October was the last month to get either the CAT862 or CAT745 repaired (except the CAT745 battery, they'll still do that). Of course, this was at 3-years 4-months AFTER they announced that they were discontinuing the units so people would have, at least 3-years to prepare.

This policy of the digital cinema equipment manufacturers is what I personally think will kill exhibition, not Netflix. It will be a death by a 1000 cuts. A server here, a projector there. We are coming up on 10-years from when the series 2 systems went in. As those projectors and servers start to drop, there won't be any VPFs to pay for the next round. This industry was used to projection/sound equipment that lasted the life of the structure. Those days are over (particularly for the projectors and servers...akin to the projector console and platter). Where is the money going to come to replace it at this frequency? (Not to mention, the repair costs of this stuff is greater than the film counterparts).

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 12-01-2018, 07:59 PM:

I'm glad I stumbled across this post while we still have a few months to make decisions.

Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 12-01-2018, 08:19 PM:

Kind of like a kick to the gut.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 12-01-2018, 10:02 PM:

I had an interesting experience with GDC recently.

I was sent to replace an OS drive that had gone bad on an SX-2000AR. When I arrived at the site, they didn't have, and couldn't find, the key to open the lid of the server case (not the lock on the RAID hard drive cage at the front, but the one at the back that gives you access to the main part of the case).

After checking with my co-workers in at other jobs and at the shop and establishing that nobody had one, I called GDC in Burbank. I was told politely but firmly that they didn't have any and couldn't help, leaving me with the options of trying to find one some place else, or using a universal key (AKA a crowbar).

The theater's manager asked me to speak to the chain's head of IT to ask permission for the latter option, who told me to standby while he tried GDC. Since they didn't have keys in stock, he was going to ask them to RMA the entire unit (minus the RAID drives, obviously), and for us to do a straight swapout of the whole thing. A few minutes later he called back: GDC had miraculously found a key, which was waiting for me in reception as soon as I could make it up the 5 to collect it. About an hour later, it was in my possession.

Don't know what to make of that.

quote: Steve Guttag
Note, for those with Dolby DSS servers, October was the last month to get either the CAT862 or CAT745 repaired (except the CAT745 battery, they'll still do that).

Will they continue to sell cat862 firmware upgrade keys? At the moment we're selling and/or installing one or two a month, so that impact will be felt pretty quickly if they stop.

And given the number of these in use, the impact of them ceasing all repairs to 862 and 745 media blocks is going to be felt significantly and soon, anyways. As with the GDC, the DSS200/220 servers use almost completely generic parts that are easily replaceable from third party vendors, so keeping the server hardware alive isn't going to be a serious problem - in the short to medium term, at least. It's the media block that will be.

With GDC, the server will be more of a problem because you need a license file from GDC every time you replace the OS drive and/or pair a server with a different IMB. If they're going to stop issuing those, that will bring this hardware to the EOL point prematurely. At least with the Dolby DSS servers you can clean install the software and media block firmware (at least, to the current version in the case of an 862-based system), without needing Dolby's blessing (in the form of a KDM).

quote: Steve Guttag
This policy of the digital cinema equipment manufacturers is what I personally think will kill exhibition, not Netflix. It will be a death by a 1000 cuts. A server here, a projector there. We are coming up on 10-years from when the series 2 systems went in. As those projectors and servers start to drop, there won't be any VPFs to pay for the next round.

As against which, the price of projectors and servers has come down in real terms. But I think this is a culture issue as much as any other: with the exception of Christie, all the major manufacturers of projectors and servers come from an audio, consumer, broadcast and/or IT background, in which 5-10 years is the industry standard service life for major pieces of capital equipment. As you point out, in the cinema exhibition industry, the expectation is 30-40 years for a projector or platter, and easily 20 for audio processors and power amps.

I don't know what proportion of a typical theater's annual operating costs is accounted for by overall cost of ownership / capital depreciation on projection and sound equipment, but that would be an interesting figure to see and compare before and after the 35mm to Series 1 transition. My guess is that it will have increased, but how much, and whether that increase would be offset by savings elsewhere in the operation, I'm not sure.

Posted by Jay Glaus (Member # 6011) on 12-01-2018, 10:45 PM:

A kick to the gut is right.

It’s hard to believe that two of my booths are 5 years old and the other is 3 years old and already equipment that I bought new is obsolete. And I would really be ticked if I just bought one in the past year or two and already was told to upgrade.

I think Steve nailed it that this is the kind of stuff that will kill exhibition for sure. I ran a Kinoton on my big screen for a couple weeks with gum bands waiting for a part. And that part still didn’t cost a quarter of what a server would. I always kept a few projector heads laying around in case of an emergency back in the old days but things sure have changed.

I’ll probably renew my warranty for one last time but who knows what good it will be if the part I need is not available, mainly the imb.

I haven’t priced out yet upgrading, but I can’t imagine it’s too affordable for the drive in business model. When I was a kid coming out here I never thought anything could bring drive ins to their knees but I know of many that struggle with these higher operating expenses, including mine.

It would be nice if NATO or UDITOA would work out an upgrade deal or some type of payment arrangements for drive ins and independents but I doubt I’ll see that. I guess it’s to the point now where if you’re not one of the big guys, good luck to you.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-01-2018, 11:51 PM:

Please note, any server bought with the standard 3-year warranty (including this year from GDC) will still get their 3-year warranty.

As for software support on the DSS...to the best of my knowledge, that continues though I think 4.9.x will be the end of the line. The cost of 4.9.x is dirt cheap too.

As for that stupid cover key...I do carry one with me but I also always leave it unlocked. It has screws to "secure" the cover and they don't wire in the tamper switch on it.

It is the mediablocks that will be the end of these servers now. As Leo points out, the generic computer stuff can be had though GDC's card cage is not very common over here, the motherboard is a Supermicro. I've had a couple "RAID CAGES" go bad and one or two OS drives. The OS drives now are 2.5" with an adapter bracket to have it fit the 3.5" holder. I've heard nothing about GDC not supporting the servers with the appropriate scripts (new OS drive). Whereas there won't be any mediablock swaps after next year, there won't be a need for that.

Posted by Jay Glaus (Member # 6011) on 12-02-2018, 12:03 AM:

What would be nice to find out from GDC is that for the next three years everything including the media blocks will be available. Even though I would have to pay out of pocket for a replacement, I’d still have the peace of mind that if one went down I could have one next dayed. What would scare me into upgrading is the fear that a media block wouldn’t be available and what could have been a simple parts swap now would be a mad dash to buy a new server to be up for Friday.

Posted by Stephan Shelley (Member # 8587) on 12-02-2018, 12:24 AM:

As far as a missing server cover key you can knock a screwdriver in the lock and twist it enough to get the cover off. I have had to do this once. A little better than a crowbar.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 12-02-2018, 08:05 AM:

Jay - what projector types are you using?

- Carsten

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 12-02-2018, 08:53 AM:

quote: Steve Guttag
As for that stupid cover key...I do carry one with me but I also always leave it unlocked. It has screws to "secure" the cover and they don't wire in the tamper switch on it.

Yeah ... not only did I leave the server unlocked that I worked on, but went around the other screens in the complex and unlocked those just before I left, too, and left printed labels on each server stating that the case was unlocked and asking any further tech who worked on it to leave it that way.

This was the first time I'd had to open the case of one of these, and so had no idea that the lock was there until I encountered it. The GDC tech I spoke to told me that there was no tamper switch on it, and therefore that violence was an option, albeit a last ditch one. I must get into the habit of asking customers I haven't been to before to confirm that they have all the necessary physical keys, and access codes/passwords, that I may need to do the job ahead of time, so at least if they don't, there can be no dispute as to who is on the hook for extra hours and/or parts if a situation like this happens. I met a similar problem recently whereby someone had changed the service mode code on an NEC from its factory default and no-one at the site knew it when I got there, too.

The only switch I found was towards the front of the case, close to the cage beside that of the RAID cage, that contains the OS drive. As you say, it wasn't connected to anything (I presume it's only used in variants that have the internal media block), but even if it had been, forcing open that lock wouldn't have prevented it from closing. The motherboard header could easily have been jumpered to disable it, anyways (unless there is a resistor inside the microswitch, and the motherboard expects to see a specific resistance on that circuit, to prevent you from doing that). It might even have been possible to disable it in a BIOS setting, too, though I didn't look.

Posted by Jay Glaus (Member # 6011) on 12-02-2018, 10:57 AM:

Carsten,
Screen one is a Barco 32B, two and three are 23B’s, and four is an NEC 1600C I picked up used.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-02-2018, 01:41 PM:

I want to be clear, there will NOT be any mediablocks (internal or IMBs) after the dates I listed above for servers outside of hardware warranty. They will not sell you extended hardware warranty past those dates. The only servers that can get an RX mediablock will be those still under the original 3-year warranty or any that might have purchased a multi-year extended warranty that hasn't expired.

Leo, that switch isn't connected on ANY GDC server (and it isn't connected on the DSS servers from Dolby either).

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 12-02-2018, 04:39 PM:

Those Barcos may qualify for an ICMP/Alchemy server when the time comes. Note that you also get a new ICP with it. I don't mean to jump towards an ICMP now, but, rest calm, consider your short-term and long-term options.

- Carsten

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 12-02-2018, 08:39 PM:

quote: Steve Guttag
This policy of the digital cinema equipment manufacturers is what I personally think will kill exhibition, not Netflix. It will be a death by a 1000 cuts. A server here, a projector there.

I've pretty much resigned to the idea that a projector is more like a lease, in that there's no point in considering it "paid for." I figure this theater will make a "projector payment" until it burns down, and that's the story. Just part of the business. If the time comes when we're "paid off," then I'll still make the payment into some sort of savings account.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 12-02-2018, 09:21 PM:

quote: Steve Guttag
This policy of the digital cinema equipment manufacturers is what I personally think will kill exhibition, not Netflix. It will be a death by a 1000 cuts.

This situation is something many of us in this forum predicted would happen back in the early 2000's. That was when the big movie studios were hard-selling (or rather forcing) digital projection upon commercial movie theaters. By the early 2000's we already had learned how disposable digital technology devices could be. Any device that had a longer than expected life could be turned into a door stop instantly if any component failed. These companies routinely stop making replacement parts for anything more than a few years old. That even goes for expensive devices like digital projectors.

Nevertheless the studios deliberately ram-rodded this stuff for the sole reason of saving millions of dollars on film print costs. They only cared about their bottom line, even if it forced the equivalent of an unfunded mandate upon theaters. This doesn't even get into the very questionable claims that digital had over film in terms of presentation quality.

We saw lots of movie theaters close in the digital conversion process. Many new theaters built for digital projection have their own flaws. Common-width screens are the norm, as if we're living in the 1980's when most movies were framed in 1.85:1 ratio. The problem is the vast majority of movies are framed in 'scope format, which means the movies are letter-boxed in most of these theaters. Worse yet, the industry decided to letter-box the 'scope format in the projectors, making 'scope the lowest resolution format. Add to that the goofs of many theaters who leave the 3D filters in place, softening an already low resolution (yet digital) image.

Aside from all the fundamental technical problems with d-cinema and the financial challenges faced by movie theaters, the streaming services like Netflix are posing their own dire threats to the movie industry. They're helping erode the theatrical release window even more. Conventional 2 hour theatrical releases have to follow the Save The Cat bible. Cable TV and streaming services have more creative freedom with their shows. They can develop less conventional plot lines and show more edgy product. There's no fear about something getting into NC-17 territory. The most fundamental shift is they're getting away from the conventional 2 hour format. A "movie" can now play at the duration needed (as long as the budget can allow it), be it 4 hours or 12 hours. Home viewers seem to love binge-watching these shows.

The commercial theater industry is being threatened with a death of 1000 cuts, but those cuts are coming from multiple culprits from within the theatrical industry and outside of it.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 12-02-2018, 11:02 PM:

quote: Steve Guttag
We are coming up on 10-years from when the series 2 systems went in.

Which means that the certificate batteries on ICPs - the ones that are soldered to the terminals and are not replaceable, and which are said to have a 10-year lifespan - are about to start dying in significant numbers, leaving the owners of the projectors in which they're installed with a $5k bill for a new ICP.

Yes, in the context of the overall running costs of a theater, $5k every 10 years is not much, but it does annoy me that these components were deliberately designed to be disposable like that. If IMBs are allowed to be designed to have user-replaceable certificate batteries, I fail to see why ICPs can't be.

Posted by Tom Bert (Member # 5719) on 12-03-2018, 04:33 AM:

quote: Steve Guttag
the SR1000 (the new kid on the block that can either function as a stand-alone server with the Enterprise storage or function as a streaming server with a 1TB cache drive from a central storage unit (only good up to 2K)

No 4K(-compatible) version of the SR1000?

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-03-2018, 07:41 AM:

Not at this time (4K version of the SR1000). I'm not a spokesman for GDC or any other manufacturer so I cannot comment on any future plans.

From a reliability standpoint, the changeable certificate battery has shown itself to be dodgy. Dolby, eventually, switched the CAT745 to a solder-in. Personally, what I think these people could have done was have a super-cap paralleled with a changeable battery or batteries such that the battery was only on-line if the super-cap drained.

As for the $5K fee, that is the projector company's choice. It isn't like THEY can't change the battery and put in a new certificate for a nominal fee. In fact, that is what I think they SHOULD do. They choose to tell you to buy a new expensive part (or their new series 3 server/ICP system. Having to pay $5000 for a $2.00 battery and some labor is absurd. Then again, Barco's 90-day parts warranty is absurd too. As is the policy of refusing to repair Enigma modules (out of warranty). Just more of the 1000 cuts.

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 12-03-2018, 08:30 AM:

You don't get a "new" ICP with the ICMP, you remove the ICP, the ICMP replaces it as well as your SDI input card or IMB. So you do end up with a spare ICP to use elsewhere at least.
Note that the ICMP changes a few things: I believe it disables the CCB's DVI ports to use the internal circuitry for its own HDMI/DP ports. 4K and 4:4:4 3D playback are native. Server control is via the Barco Commander program on a Barco touchpanel or on a PC.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 12-03-2018, 09:26 AM:

quote: Dave Macaulay
You don't get a "new" ICP with the ICMP

Well, you do ;-) That's the ICxP in the ICMP ;-)

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-03-2018, 10:05 AM:

Dave is correct, the DVI ports are non-functional after the ICMP BUT you get two new HDMI 2.0 input ports.

The ICMP is not an exact replacement to the ICP but it is close. Note, you can use the ICP/Enigma program to talk with the ICMP still. For those that use Anamorphic lenses, the ICMP doesn't do "anamorphic factor." So if you do have an anamorphic lens, and swap to an ICMP, the anamorphic lens will not longer work (the image won't be expanded vertically by 1.25X).

Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 12-03-2018, 11:34 AM:

quote: Tom Bert
No 4K(-compatible) version of the SR1000?

But the GDC website says it's "[t]he cutting-edge and future-proof IMB that exhibitors have been waiting for!"

[Devil]

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 12-03-2018, 04:26 PM:

Our theatre in Paradise is likely to not have power for several months after the fire, and likely won't be open for a couple years. I'm guessing we should just assume the ICP boards are going to wind up bricked. As it is the theatre has already been without power for almost a month.

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 12-03-2018, 04:59 PM:

Well, you still don't get a "new ICP", you get a card that includes the ICP functionality.
The ICP will be OK with no power for quite a while, but if you use SDI input the link decryptor has about a 6 mo battery life. Worth taking it out and charging it (you can buy a charger kit for A LOT less than a new module) or find a way to power up the projector for a few hours. A new module is $$$$ and it's non repairable.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 12-03-2018, 05:23 PM:

quote: Justin Hamaker
Our theatre in Paradise is likely to not have power for several months after the fire, and likely won't be open for a couple years. I'm guessing we should just assume the ICP boards are going to wind up bricked. As it is the theatre has already been without power for almost a month.

I would be more concerned about the cert batteries in the media blocks than the ICPs. At a training school I went to at one of the major manufacturers, I was told that the cert battery soldered onto the ICP is supposed to last for ten years. When I asked if that was ten years on the shelf or ten years assuming a typical usage pattern (i.e. the ICP has power for about 12 hours out of every 24), the trainer said that he didn't know, but guessed the latter.

So it's really going to depend on how old your ICPs were when the fire happened, and in any case, there is nothing you can do about it. Agreed that it would be prudent to factor in new ICPs into your insurance claim.

IMBs are more of a concern, and there, you can do something. The shortest lived are GDCs: IMHO, on the shelf, you're not safe leaving them for more than a year. Others that I know of have shelf lives claimed at between three and eight years. If you can get access to the building, I would certainly suggest replacing all the media block and/or IMB batteries as soon as you are able to.

Enigma cards are only safe for about a month without power. If you have any of those, all I can suggest there is to get them to another site that uses them, and swap them in and out with the existing ones on a monthly cycle. There is a two-pin header on the boards that you can apply 12v to to charge them outside of a projector, if you can get hold of a connector and hook it to a wall wart 12v power supply.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 12-03-2018, 05:36 PM:

quote: Justin Hamaker
Our theatre in Paradise is likely to not have power for several months after the fire, and likely won't be open for a couple years. I'm guessing we should just assume the ICP boards are going to wind up bricked. As it is the theatre has already been without power for almost a month.

So - what are your plans in general for this equipment, I mean, you do not plan to leave them sitting around until it reopens?
I'd get it out and store it in another location that allows to power them up regularly.

- Carsten

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 12-03-2018, 08:32 PM:

quote: Carsten Kurz
So - what are your plans in general for this equipment, I mean, you do not plan to leave them sitting around until it reopens?

We aren't that far along in planning yet. They haven't even opened up the town so we can get back in and assess the condition of the theatre. Most likely we are going to have a service come in and do a very detailed cleaning to deal with any smoke and/or ash that got into the equipment. It's possible we will have power on in the theatre while it's closed, which would allow us to periodically power on the equipment. This warranty issue with the GDC servers is concerning because we will clearly be past that date before we reopen - likely before we even could reopen.

The owner of the company is on the town council in Paradise, so he has been busy dealing with city issues as well as his own personal and business issues. I haven't talked to him for more than 10 minutes since the fires, so there hasn't been a chance to really discuss the long term plans. I don't know if he is looking at completely mothballing the theatre for a couple years, or if he is looking at getting it back to functional as soon as possible so we could at least use the building when an opportunity arises. Even if we opt to mothball, I suspect the power will be kept on so we can monitor with security cameras and do anything else that needs to be done.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-04-2018, 04:29 PM:

quote: Justin Hamaker
I'm guessing we should just assume the ICP boards are going to wind up bricked.

Well, they won't be bricked if you changed the certificate batteries in the IMB's. If you have not changed them you still can. You should also change the battery in the ICP at the same time. Frankly, I'd be buying a 7.5kw+ generator to use to back feed into your main panel, and then go power up the booth lights and say two projection systems at a time, each for an hour a month. That generator will be a lot less money than all new ICP's and Servers. No real need to run the lamps. I have done this before where a theater was going to be demolished and we wanted the original lighting powered up to take pictures. That's all it takes. And change those batteries if you haven't!

Regarding the end of production, I think that GDC will be able to supply parts to keep them going for at least several years yet. There are going to be a lot of older servers traded in to get the new ones, and they will likely recycle those parts. The Motherboard is still being made and there is no issue getting hard drives. Dolbly never offered a trade in on any of their products.

Mark

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-04-2018, 06:00 PM:

It's the mediablocks that you won't get Mark. That is what won't be available (I've asked). Yes, the other parts will be but those aren't the big failure parts. The mediablock to MB or OS drive failure rate is about 20:1.

And no, Dolby never did a trade in on their DCinema stuff...they did have the "wanted dead or alive" sound processor thing to sell the CP45.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 12-04-2018, 06:25 PM:

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
You should also change the battery in the ICP at the same time.

There are two batteries on the ICP board. The real time clock battery is user replaceable (BR3032), and TI recommend replacing it every five years. If it dies while in use, that's no big deal - you can reset the ICP's clock after installing the new one. As long as you have spares on hand, you don't even need to bother about replacing it pre-emptively.

The other battery maintains the secure certificate and is soldered into its holder. This is not user changeable. Its service life is estimated at ten years, and once it goes (and you lose the cert), you need a new ICP.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-05-2018, 01:22 AM:

Nope, have not seen any where near that ratio of failures here Steve. Out of 334 GDC servers I've had approximately 4 media blocks fail. The most failures I had were cert batteries, perhaps 8 or 9 units. I have had two customers already trade in their servers for new SR-1000's...

Mark

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-05-2018, 05:41 AM:

I'm sure you haven't Mark, you're "special" that way.I've had about half of the SX2001 mediablocks fail and over half of the SX2000AR IMBs. Granted, the SX2000AR IMBs were on the first generation and I don't believe I've had repeats on those. Conversely, I've had one Motherboard and maybe two OS drives. Now the PSD and eSATA thing...don't get me started...going out today to change another (again...this will be round 2 for those units...the drives and IMB itself already having been changed).

On the batteries. Interesting note, the SX2000AR, which uses the same batteries and is the same IMB as the SX-3000 sans the OS portion, they can go MUCH longer than the SX-3000...YEARS longer. As in, they can go 5-years without dropping very low at all (well within spec). I dare say, that is NOT the case on the SX-3000 where even 3-years can be dicey.

As for customers taking the SR1000 upgrade...that would imply you had failures in order to take advantage of the "deal." Conversely, I'm replacing my first DSS200 server due to a failed CAT862.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-05-2018, 11:08 AM:

I donno what to tell you Steve... other than I have had really great luck with them. Perhaps NEC cools them better than Barco does. And I agree, that is odd on the batteries. But there is obviously something else the SX-3000 batteries are supporting other than just certs. Perhaps settings? Otherwise if they really were really identical then they would last just as long.

The theater that replaced the servers with SR-1000's was going along just fine, in fact was a site where no failures ever occurred. The theater does very well and the owner just likes to take his tax write off on a different aspect of the building each year. I have had to replace two motherboards because of very occasional skipping and one OS drive, although that drive probably could have been repaired had I been there instead of the theater manager.

I doubt that GDC is just going to toss the trade in units out. They are more likely to refurbish the parts and keep the older units going with those parts for a while.

Mark

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 12-05-2018, 11:19 AM:

Almost all our first generation ARn units had to be replaced as they blew up
Most of the 3000 have had at least one major issue
All installed in NEC or CHristie machines

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 12-10-2018, 03:56 PM:

Are hotfixes going to be available for these older units that can't get updates?

I know a few locations running 2000AR units.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-10-2018, 07:59 PM:

Firmware will be available for all servers for a small yearly charge.

Mark

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 12-10-2018, 09:13 PM:

It'll be interesting to find out what their definition of "small" is.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-11-2018, 07:48 AM:

The flaw in the yearly charge model is...there is no guarantee that they will issue new software and even if they do that it may fix any particular issue you may be having. For instance, Dolby has a "Software Warranty" on the CP750. How many software updates has it had in the last 5 years? I think zero.

Servers tend to get some sort of updates but it definitely slows down as a server matures. In fact, one would hope update frequency slows down. Most "updates" fix bugs, which really shouldn't be charged for anyway. What was the last GDC update that actually introduced NEW FEATURES to their server(s) as a consequence of the update? At least on the Dolby DSS updates, one could point to a new feature of the server as a consequence of moving from say 4.8 to 4.9 and they also publish the list of new features and fixes. GDC doesn't publish their server fixes (release notes).

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-11-2018, 11:02 AM:

The firmware/Support warranty is about $120 per server per year, discounted from there for more servers and also a two year signup. There have been occasional small new features added. But since the features are already fairly comprehensive, what's there that needs to added? Note that some of those small added features have been buttons on the GUI, but things like added resolutions and sound capabilities that didn't exist when the server was introduced.

Mark

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 12-11-2018, 02:14 PM:

There was a barrage of updates from all the major server manufacturers when the SMPTE DCP rollout started to happen on a significant scale, because bugs and instabilities that previously only affected a tiny minority of users started to be felt more widely.

It's debatable whether these should really be considered bug fixes or functionality upgrades. On the one hand, the SMPTE standards that go into the SMPTE DCP have been around in pretty near their final form since 2014, but on the other, around 99% of DCPs in distribution were Interop until last year.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-11-2018, 06:35 PM:

Very true Leo.... There was a rush to do SMPTE updates when they were released, then... nothing.... for almost two years! I suspect it was just slow adoption by the studios.

Mark

Posted by Eric Richard (Member # 8635) on 12-11-2018, 08:15 PM:

What was the last word on the series 1's from Barco? I think I recall hearing something about new parts being available until 2018. We still operate with 14 DP-1500's and DP-2000's. I swear we have probably rebuilt half of them by now and that's not a crack on Barco. I just think it goes to the whole discussion on this thread. And yet I still have my three operational 35mm projectors ready to go at a moments notice with nothing to show. [Smile]

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 12-11-2018, 09:59 PM:

A few months ago, Barco were willing to sell us a new light engine for a DP2000, after one failed in a customer's projector. Needless to say, it made no economic sense to go that route - the light engine would have cost significantly more than a low hours, near new condition Series 2 equivalent with an Enigma card in it, and not much less than a new one. But at that point, they had one for sale if we'd wanted it.

What I've seen with Series 1 Barcos is that their weak point is the pressurized liquid cooling system. I'm constantly replacing hoses, pumps, and quick release valves on them, then flushing them out, refilling and re-pressurizing them. The usual cause of the call for help is that the lamp has shut down in response to a DMD overheat, and then I arrive to find a leak somewhere, and dried up, crystallized coolant deposits underneath the light engine.

However, with the cooling system replumbed, I've never had to go back to one. I suspect that these components just have a shorter natural service life than the rest of the projector.

If you have a DP1500, 2000 or 3000 and that's the only thing wrong with it, I'd say that it's worth fixing them. The pump is the same model as is used in the B and C series (Series 2), and the hoses, spring-loaded hose clamps, coolant and quick release valves are generic parts, easily available from third parties if Barco should ever stop selling them. However, if a big ticket part such as the light engine or one of the boards kicks the bucket, my instinct would be that it's only worth trying to fix the projector if you have a spare one to part out for donor components.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-12-2018, 06:07 AM:

Are you using factory hoses? Are you updating them to the more UV resistant black ones?

I have not had the hose failures you mention but we have preemptively changed out the connectors (as per Barco's Info-T) and also change the coolant regularly. The only real reason I pressurize it up again to to verify that there are no leaks! And yes, I've changed the cooling pumps on the 4-year schedule as if they had a Maintenance "D" notification (which series 1s do not). The hoses, which turn brown with age/exposure do give me some concern though.

I have definitely cautioned my customers with series 1 projectors that they need to plan for their replacement WHEN (not if) they fail and repairing them would be impractical, if not impossible. I have heard nothing about part discontinuation for them yet but it would not surprise me if they do in 2019. That said, depending on the part, there are many parts in the DP1200-DP-2000 that go to a "C" projector.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 12-13-2018, 06:03 PM:

No - UV resistant high pressure hose (claims to be good for up too 100 PSI, though needless to say I have no intention of putting that claim to the test!) from Grainger. A roll of 1/4" (inner diameter), 3/8" and 1/2" will enable you to re-plumb a DP-1500, 2000 or 3000. As these machines are long out of warranty and the survivors are being run by limited budget operations, there's no point in paying a huge premium for genuine Barco hosepipe.

Agreed - the brown hose that came from the factory is attacked by the coolant from within, and UV from the lamp from without, and seems to become brittle and crunchy very quickly. Maybe if more resilient stuff had been installed at the factory, these projectors would have an even lower breakdown rate than they have. The cooling system seems to be about the only thing that kills them.

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 01-25-2019, 12:12 AM:

With this end of warranty issue just around the corner, I wanted to see if there is any advice about what to do while our servers are still in warranty. I assume the latest software update would be one thing. But are there any other suggestions?

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-25-2019, 03:00 AM:

Make sure your mediablock fan is in good repair and there is good air flow through the server (no clogged filters). Those mediablocks run HOT.

We are starting to see OS drive failures too. GDC is supplying 2.5" drives with adapters as replacements.

I wonder if GDC will be issuing non-warranty update licenses to remove the "nag" and to allow for any software updates that address bugs.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-25-2019, 09:34 AM:

I have all my customers keep a new OS drive on site. It can go into any server as GDC has to go in and install certificates after you install the HD.

As far as GDC supplying a license of some sort... you will still have to buy the Firmware and Support option for each unit... which you will need anyway if you ever change certain parts out like the OS drive or the media block or have some funky issue with a motherboard like I did once... Their support team is excellent and at times can save the day or the weekend.

Mark

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-25-2019, 10:58 AM:

It is my understanding that there will not be a cost for mere software updates or technician talk going forward.