Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Dolby IMS2000 Vs GDC SR-1000

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Posted by Thomas Baham (Member # 9113) on 02-28-2019, 06:20 PM:

I am about to swap out my Christy IMB with a replacement. I purchased a new Projector a few months ago, ( NEC) and they installed a GDC SR-1000. Before plunging a bunch of cash I don't have, should I just purchase another GDC, or go with the Dolby, for the Christie Solaria One? I don't like how irritating the GDC reacts when it glitches, it takes forever to come back to life. At least twice a week it wont start a playlist and shows that the file is corrupted, and I need to start it manually. (When I do, no issues) The christie never given me problems other than the yearly replacement of the IMB (Because I guess they are pieces or garbage) This is why I am looking. Thanks for all your help, please don't go too far over my head with big words....LOL

Posted by Stephan Shelley (Member # 8587) on 02-28-2019, 06:25 PM:

Have you talked with GDC tech support? This does not sound like normal GDC behavior.

Posted by Thomas Baham (Member # 9113) on 02-28-2019, 06:40 PM:

I have, they had me upgrade the firmware, it helped with the scheduling, but not the Corruption files" problem. I will call them tomorrow, they are easy to work with (a Positive for GDC)

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-28-2019, 08:56 PM:

A customer of mine installed three new SR-1000's very early on... and they seemed a bit buggy at first, but a couple firmware updates later and they have settled in. Totally different GUI than the normal GDC GUI. I personally DO NOT like NOT having touch screen capability in a server. The SX-4000 does for a bit more money. My customer also regrets installing the SR-1000's, Since they are only web accessible he has bought a laptop to talk to each one. I had nothing to do with it... he had already made up his mind. After his experience I'll only be quoting the SX-4000.

The Dolbly GUI is just awful. Not at all self intuitive. Beyond that they have been reliable. I suggest going to see the Dolbly before you buy!

No complaints on the SX-3000 either except the relatively short certificate battery life of three years. As long as those are changed its a reliable unit. I installed a bunch of them and only two have legitimately died.

Mark

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-01-2019, 06:13 AM:

I have no experience with the SR1000, yet so I can't comment on it, at this time. I can say, we are at 100% success on the IMS2000. That is, zero failures and no lost or botched shows.

I'll agree with Mark that I'm no fan of its user interface (I don't like the Doremi UI in general and the web-version didn't win any points with me either). Like most everything, the more you use something, the more you adapt to it but that doesn't change the fact it isn't really intuitive.

Other things about the IMS that I'm not too jazzed about are its Ethernet commands, plan on using the "wait" cue with all of them if you want reliable control.

But that is about it. So, for reliability, I think there is no contest based on descriptions in this thread. The IMS2000 is, at present, more reliable and probably every bit as capable.

I have not had good stories to tell about the SX3000 either. I've had (or near) 100% failure on them and every aspect of them. I've changed the IMB, the PSD /drives (multiple times, even on the same system) and the eSATA cable. Compared to the previous GDC servers that use a traditional server chassis, the SX3000 behaves like a drunken sailor and is sluggish at responding.

The SX4000, I would presume is more of the same as they appear very similar to the SX3000 but with DTS-X capability (if you don't mind having no more channels than a standard 16-channel AES system.

I hope they get the kinks out of the SR1000 as it does look attractive in many ways. I'm not totally against the web-UI. Really, what's the difference between having an expensive touchscreen that can fail or having a computer, likely already on site, as your user interface. Heck, one could built a cheap computer running linux with a web browser about as cheap as a touchscreen.

Talk to someone that is using the IMS2000 and see what they think about the day-to-day life with it.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-01-2019, 09:49 AM:

quote: Steve Guttag
Really, what's the difference between having an expensive touchscreen that can fail or having a computer, likely already on site, as your user interface.

There is a lot of difference. While I have built the TMS systems I installed to run for the very long term, many booths just have a el-cheapo $149.00 access computer... You can't operate an entire plex on the basis of accessing all that gear though one crappy computer that is only going to fail on the day you have to ingest 5 new movies and do all the scheduling for the week.

Touch screen reliability has been really good for me with only a half dozen or so failures of them out of 300+ monitors. And all those that failed have been converted to LED back light at minimal expense and are still in service, and the LED back lights should push the life span out another eight to ten years more.

Not having the local monitor is also going to mean more foot work back and forth thorough a large booth if they are ingesting from HD.

I don't object as much if they have a reliable TMS system to access it because that TMS is likely already network accessible at other management computers in the building or at least via an Eye Pad. Foot work costs money!

Mark

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-01-2019, 01:05 PM:

Mark,

You could get a micro PC (most anybody's) mount it to the back of a cheapo monitor, plug in a keyboard and mouse for what $250-$350? You could put that at each server and still be in the same ballpark price as supplying touchscreens. I'm sure there are people here that have used Raspberry Pi PCs and have a basic Linux install and again, mate it up with a monitor, keyboard and mouse and you've got yourself your user interface.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 03-01-2019, 01:56 PM:

Similar logic applies to Q-Sys touch panels. Once you've bought the UCI license for the core, you can run the UCI on a cheap Chinese no name PC or Android tablet, which will also give you the ability to run other equipment in your system (e.g. web and VNC UIs). So, unless idiotproofing is your overriding priority (i.e. making sure that the operator does not have access to anything other than the Q-Sys UCI), why wouldn't you?

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-01-2019, 04:01 PM:

I believe QSYS only has an Apple app, no Android. That said, they are in pre-beta with their web-uci and moving towards beta on the next release. Once the web-uci is reasonably functional, then moving away from a touchscreen seems more viable.

Using the UCI-Viewer can be a struggle, a bit, and it does require some effort on the user.

I'd say it is going to be very installation dependent on if the expense of a touchpanel (and what size) for QSYS would be justified. There is something to walking past a screen and visually seeing that all is as it should be.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 03-01-2019, 05:03 PM:

Getting back to the original discussion... I can understand why you would want to ditch the terrible Solaria IMB. I would go for the IMS2000, primarily because my experience with it is, that's it pretty solid. I've zero experience on the SR-1000. Usually, GDC provides a smoother UI than the Doremi/Dolby based solutions, but I'm not able to comment on that model specific.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-01-2019, 06:36 PM:

quote: Steve Guttag
You could get a micro PC (most anybody's) mount it to the back of a cheapo monitor, plug in a keyboard and mouse

I did just that for all the Cinedigm racks I put in. The baby computers generally only lasted a couple years, a couple went past that. The touch screens could be used with the baby cmputers too. Takes standard VGA.

Mark

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-02-2019, 08:27 AM:

For the record, we standardized on Zotac micro PCs (Zboxes) and with rare exception, they are all still going. I think the cheap one now is the BI-326.

The Raspberry Pi, is likely to last even longer with essentially no moving parts.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 03-03-2019, 04:59 AM:

The biggest problem with RasPis is choosing the right SD cards for them. The boards themselves are quite durable, especially everything since the "2", but if you put in the wrong SD card you'll see them fail intermittently. You really need one of the more durable kind, or the simple logging of the Linux distribution on them will kill them.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-04-2019, 08:09 PM:

quote: Steve Guttag
For the record, we standardized on Zotac micro PCs

Yep, same thing I used, but only on the Cinedigm racks. I had two of the three Zotacs die. Once I switched to doing all GDC TMS systems I just remoted into the TMS itself through a stand alone firewall. GDC was not flaky about accessing the TMS directly like Cinedigm was. I have never had any issues, nor has anyone ever hacked into them. I used either Dell 2950's or Dell 2900 Tower servers, now using Dell R-510's to replace some of the aging 2950's. Never had any of the Dells fail. In fact the GDC TMS interfaces really well to the DCDC satellite catch server.

Mark

Posted by Thomas Baham (Member # 9113) on 03-05-2019, 05:30 PM:

Thank you all for your responses.

Last question, off subject: Where or who do I contact to try to get digital content sent to me via satellite, or Internet. I know there is a service, just don't know where to look

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 03-05-2019, 05:58 PM:

quote: Thomas Baham
Where or who do I contact to try to get digital content sent to me via satellite, or Internet. I know there is a service, just don't know where to look

https://www.dcdcdistribution.com

- Carsten

Posted by Thomas Baham (Member # 9113) on 03-05-2019, 06:21 PM:

Thank you

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 03-05-2019, 06:39 PM:

Go with the IMS2000. You probably dispose of the Christie IMB-S2 because it was unreliable. Don't settle on another brand new IMS like the SR-1000 which obviously has a lot of teething troubles.

- Carsten

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-09-2019, 07:52 AM:

I would not install a new IMB or server that relies on hard drives any longer. The SR-1000 does not use any hard drives and thats a huge advantage. It also touts a 100,000 hour MTBF, which is quite a bit better then the last crop of everyones servers.

Mark

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-09-2019, 08:48 AM:

Mark: <essentially always says he will put in whatever GDC and NEC makes, at the moment>

IMS2000: 1TB drives: spinning HDD, 2TB drives: SSD (if they are spinning, something has gone very wrong!)

SR-1000: Stand alone mode, mates up with an Enterprise storage (no plus...yet) so 3.5" spinning HDD (haven't seen any GDC approved SSDs for this yet). If in a multiplex or I suppose you could put in a TMS for a single, one could add in the streaming TMS to avoid the bad old HDD that generally get 5-6 years of good cheap service and rely on cache storage (1TB) and streaming...with system of what? Less than a year of field proven technology?

100,000 Hour MTBF. So this number came out based on how many units in the field that went that long? Oh, none; right.

I'm really NOT trying to pick on the SR1000. It is the new kid on the block and will have to earn its street cred like every other product. I have high hopes for it and wish GDC the best of luck with it. I even plan to put a few in later this year.

But right now, the IMS2000 can already boast its reliability. It works day in and day out. It even works reliability with spinning HDD (shocker)!

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-09-2019, 12:12 PM:

Well, Seagate through corporate manipulation is about to take over Western Digital. Have fun with all your future spinning drive failures boys!

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-09-2019, 01:17 PM:

I'm reasonably sure that the new streaming TMS server from GDC uses spinning discs too. I haven't seen anything about Seagate taking over Western Digital.

The spinning disc market is a declining one, for sure as larger and larger drives come out the need for as many declines and certainly the SSD market is increasing.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-11-2019, 10:40 PM:

Yes, their central server does use spinning disks, but the SR-1000 has it's own cache memory for storage and connects to your TMS just like their other servers do. You still have the option of an external PSD-3000 or Central server though if you need the space.

Mark

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-12-2019, 07:00 AM:

In a Central TMS situation, the SR1000 plays (streams) off of the spinning discs of the central server, not its cache memory. It only moves to cache memory if the TMS disconnects.

Local storage via Enterprise storage is an option but it is just that, an option.

Posted by Greg Routenburg (Member # 1742) on 03-12-2019, 11:47 AM:

For what it's worth, if you install the new GDC central server, there is A LOT of redundancy in it's RAID. If properly managed, you'd need a small hand grenade to go off inside to take out enough drives to affect playback. Between that and the CineCache, it's a pretty robust design, at least in theory.

I also have no first hand experience with the SR-1000 but I recall the 2000AR when it first dropped and it took GDC nearly a year in the field to get the software bugs settled down. It's still not perfect but I'd say about 98% reliable in my installations.

As for whether you wanna go Dolby VS GDC, it really depends on how much you want to drop on the outset. I like that the Dolby comes fully functional with no additional licenses to purchase for added features. It does come with a much heftier price tag though. If you continue to maintain the GDC hardware warranty, which in my opinion is an absolute must, you pay for the server in the long run anyways but at least it's spread out a little to soften the initial blow.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-12-2019, 01:22 PM:

Agreed on the GDC warranty. One media block failure and that warranty has paid itself back many times over. Plus GDC's support is second to none. I was always surprised that Dolby never offered any sort of similar warranty... They kind of dropped the ball there.But then they kind of permanently dropped the ball anyways.

As for satellite... It's DCDC for that service. They supply the equipment and installation and you end up with a catch server to store content on. It is less expensive than UPS and FED-EX delivery of hard drives.

Mike....

https://www.dcdcdistribution.com/

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-12-2019, 03:55 PM:

The IMS2000 and the SR1000 when equipped with equivalent storage are priced about the same. The SR1000 starts to become cheaper as you depend more on the central storage since you don't have to keep buying local storage.

As for warranty. Dolby has always offered extended warranty but only out to 5-years. Then again, repairing the CAT862 and CAT745 were relatively cheap (Far cheaper than the GDC hardware warranty) and needed FAR less frequently.

I have little to no problem with Dolby's support. They've always gotten back to me in a reasonable amount of time and, honestly, I don't have that many problems. And, with respect to the IMS2000...the only problem I've had has been a Doremi thing where their Ethernet commands are less than reliable without the wait cue.

Posted by Alan Gouger (Member # 543) on 03-12-2019, 04:41 PM:

GDC announced HDMI 2.0 a year ago, did this ever materialize?
The latest generation Barco, QSC and Dolby have delivered on this.
Will this be on the roadmap for the SR-1000 IMB?

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-12-2019, 05:17 PM:

The SR-1000 is all USB 3.0. The SX-3000 is somewhere in between USB 2.0 and 3.0.

Mark

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-13-2019, 06:03 AM:

Pssst...he asked about HDMI not USB.

And yes, the SR1000 has HDMI 2.0. At present, it doesn't do 4K output of ANYTHING but that is on the roadmap (I'm reasonably sure). Currently, the only 4K server they have is the SX4000. It wouldn't surprise me if at CinemaCon that they announce it having 4K or that it will be available shortly.

Posted by Greg Routenburg (Member # 1742) on 03-13-2019, 10:02 AM:

Good to know about the pricing Steve. I guess Dolby is trying to offer some competition in the Economy market with their IMS solution. Question about the Dolby media block warranty/repair though just so we're comparing apples to apples. If you have a Dolby media block in warranty, do they direct ship a replacement media block to the theatre as GDC does in the event of a failure? Also, if they're out of warranty, what's the turn around time on the media block repair? Do they offer a repair/exchange service to minimize down time? I only ask because if you're a small complex or a drive-in and have a screen dark at peak season, lost revenue due to wait times on repairs vs hardware warranties with GDC may become more relevant. As your screen count grows, the impact of a dark screen becomes more marginal.

I will say that my experience with the Dolby helpdesk and GDC helpdesk have both been very speedy and the quality of service has been excellent from both. I wouldn't consider one an asset over another.

Posted by David Druiett (Member # 10809) on 03-14-2019, 09:56 AM:

We have some very similar questions. I have just started a new post entitled "Choosing between Christie Solaria One+, Dolby IMS200, and GDC SR-1000". Please help us out if you can.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-14-2019, 02:00 PM:

Since it is the same question, why start another thread (or two, it would appear)?

Posted by David Druiett (Member # 10809) on 03-14-2019, 04:07 PM:

Thanks Steve. I'm new here. My issue is related but I have additional questions. I didn't want to hijack Thomas' post.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-15-2019, 06:23 AM:

Generally, when the topic is essentially the same, the conversation should continue down that thread (fewer threads for future people to search through, fewer times providing essentially the same answers).