Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Barco V Barco

This is topic Barco V Barco in forum Digital Cinema Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Armand Daiguillon (Member # 10334) on 03-04-2019, 05:14 PM:

Hello all,

I was hoping to get an opinion from anybody familiar with both the Barco DP2k-6E and DP2k-8S.

I am opening up a theatre with some very small auditoriums (40'D x 24'W feet) It will be boothless. (I know ..some of you hate that - but I have no choice in this situation)
I was going to use the 6E's because they are supposed to be super quiet and great for boothless operation.
But then I was looking at Barco's website - and they advertise the 8S for boothless operation as well.
So - what do you guys think ?
Would the 6E be ok ? Or would the quality of that projector be poor ?
Is the 8s significantly better quality ? Or perhaps too noisy compared to 6E ?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks !!

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 03-04-2019, 06:23 PM:

The image is more or less the same between both. The 8S will give you a tiny bit more contrast and light if e.g. needed for 3D (but not much, the 10S has more).
I mean, you know these S2K machines are entry level, you don't expect the best image from them...?

We use a 6E, and it is indeed super-quiet (compared to other DCI projectors).

For boothless, in a hush box, I would take the 6E. It is also a bit more compact. Keep in mind when installing, the lamps need to be changed from the rear. This is also a lot easier and safer for the 6E than for a Xenon machine, although the Barco UHP bulbs are not cheap.

- Carsten

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 03-04-2019, 08:21 PM:

I think the 6E is quiet enough be tolerable in a room without any hush box. I would not recommend it for a commercial cinema where the air will be polluted with popcorn fumes etc., but we have several in industry screening rooms where the air is much cleaner.
The 8/10S is considerably louder and an enclosure would be necessary in my opinion.
But I would want an enclosure around any projector inside a cinema with people coming in from outside with dusty clothes and eating popcorn, mostly to supply clean air.
The point about lamp change is valid. The S projectors have a removable xenon lamphouse that comes out the right side, the E has lamp access from the rear (under a cover that is not so easy to get off). Remember that top access is required for convergence adjustment with either type, I would like at least 8" free above the top of the chassis.

Posted by Jarod Reddig (Member # 6363) on 03-04-2019, 09:14 PM:

Does the 6E use dual UHP lamps? Do most of these smaller DCI pj's use UHP?

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 03-04-2019, 10:19 PM:

There are not many with UHP lamps:

Barco DP2K-6E (twin)
NEC NC 900/1000 (twin)
Sony SRX-R510/515 (4/6)

The Barco and NEC are small and lightweight. The Sonys not so. But they have much more light.

- Carsten

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 03-05-2019, 03:44 AM:

I remember Barco promised a ceiling mounting kit for the 6E. That would also require some software updates. I suppose that did not yet materialize?

Posted by Tom Bert (Member # 5719) on 03-05-2019, 01:27 PM:

The ceiling mounting kit is available: https://www.barco.com/en/support/spare-parts/R9850004

Communicator SW allows flipping the image upside down on DP2K-6E.

Posted by Armand Daiguillon (Member # 10334) on 03-05-2019, 04:00 PM:

So, I guess i'll stick with the 6E.
What is the best gain level for a screen to have to work with this projector ? (I see screens with gains from 1-1.8)

Thanks [Smile]

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 03-05-2019, 05:26 PM:

Tom, thanks for the update. I think, with the ceiling mount, the 6E is pretty much the best option if you want to go for a hushbox-less design. It even allows for some decent access. You could still add a simple hushbox around it though, to reduce noise even further and to keep your machine clean.

quote: Armand Daiguillon
What is the best gain level for a screen to have to work with this projector ? (I see screens with gains from 1-1.8)

The screen gain depends on the size of your screen and if you want to do 3D or not and if yes, what system? In general, try to keep the gain down, if possible. More gain, means more artifacts, like hotspotting/vignetting.

With a 24ft screen (the entire width of your proposed theater), the 6E is about on the edge of its capabilities, so a screen with a gain of 1.2 or 1.3 would probably be adequate, if you primarily run 2D shows.

Posted by Jarod Reddig (Member # 6363) on 03-05-2019, 08:00 PM:

Thanks Carsten.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-06-2019, 06:46 AM:

I've found that using a gain screen (1.4-1.8) helps hid the miserable contrast of the S2K projectors. Yes, you are gaining a hotspot and are also not DCI compliant on your evenness of illumination (anything over 1.3 won't) but on balance, getting the apparent contrast up will have a greater audience impact. Using a 1.4-1.5 gain is probably a fair compromise.

One can never use screen gain to raise the brightness levels unless it is curved properly. Screen gain concentrates light, not raise it (no more light is actually leaving the projector). More often than not, screen gain lowers light. That is, if you concentrate the light in the middle and only have 14fL in the center, you'll be WAY down everywhere else, resulting in a darker picture.

Taking advantage of this knowledge is why using a gain screen on an S2K projector, like the DP2K-6E will give it an apparent increase in contrast. What one is really doing is lowering the light level on the sides rather than fill them with low contrast greyish blacks. It isn't a perfect solution, for sure but it seems to strike the best compromise with this grade of projector.

Posted by Sascha F. Roll (Member # 9043) on 03-06-2019, 08:25 AM:

Steve nailed it (once again).
Same also goes for most of the Xenon DLP 4k machines.

Posted by Daniel Morez (Member # 5787) on 03-21-2019, 09:36 PM:

Armand, Im curious if the 8SLP was considered? If it was and ruled out, was it cost based or other? The stability and longevity of the current state of laser phosphor would seem more logical for your kind of install vs going the way of the lamp.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 03-22-2019, 06:05 AM:

But that longevity so far is just an expensive promise, so, I understand why some people are hesitating.

- Carsten