Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Barco DP2k 12C discontinued

This is topic Barco DP2k 12C discontinued in forum Digital Cinema Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Bob Ezra (Member # 841) on 06-11-2019, 09:27 AM:

thoughts?

Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 06-11-2019, 09:27 AM:

None

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 06-11-2019, 10:30 AM:

Not unexpected.
The 12C is rather different from the 15/20C (still available), with its air cooled light engine in the same chassis so eliminating it mostly means they don't need that different light engine.
At 9500 lumens the 12C is (was?) not much brighter than the 10s with 9000. Yes contrast is better with the 12C over the 10s... but I don't hear a lot of complaints about contrast.
I expect the xenon projectors will be discontinued as Barco transitions to all laser.

Posted by Harold Hallikainen (Member # 5405) on 06-11-2019, 10:53 AM:

Is laser economical now versus xenon? Does anyone have numbers on the installed base of xenon, laser-phosphor, and laser primary? How about current sales of each?

Harold

Posted by Bob Ezra (Member # 841) on 06-11-2019, 11:04 AM:

thanks Dave
so, if one needed a 12c light engine, would it be no longer available?

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 06-11-2019, 02:57 PM:

I find the move incredibly short sighted. It leaves a clear void in the Barco line-up. The DP2K-12C was our most popular projector...by far! It was VERY flexible. It had a xenon range from 850-watts (about 4000 lumens) to 2200-watts (about 10,500 to 11,000 lumens). It had all of the lenses of the "C" series (including TLD+ lenses if you needed something out of the DCinema range). It was air cooled (no coolant to change or pump).

The 10S is a significantly inferior projector omitting UPS options (unless you want to power the entire projector), significantly lower contrast (and our customers complain about low contrast on every S2K projector), inefficient (needs 20% more lamp to make the same amount of light).

When the SP4K-12 becomes readily available, there will be a replacement, of sorts. It is significantly more money BUT it also never needs lamps (but will consume laser modules) but doesn't consume as much electricity...etc.

For the time being, Christie, with the CP2215 and NEC with the NC1200C have products that fill the void left by Barco...Barco only has their entry level down-grade to look to.

As for the DP2K-10SLP...that would get one back to similar contrast as the 12C but in a cost-ineffective package (if you look at things on the long-haul). LP projectors no only have an expensive wearing part, the laser, they also have an expensive electromechanical part, the phosphor wheels that also have to be factored in over time. They also don't do as well on color, in my experience and "barely" qualify for DCI color.

I look at the LP projectors as the compact florescent lamps of our industry. They weren't exactly what you wanted (RGB laser) and until you get above 3KW (15,000-18,000 lumens), they really don't price out well.

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 06-11-2019, 07:29 PM:

Barco has been good at providing parts for discontinued projectors. I don't know their official policy but we have had parts for a DP3000 recently, and some specific DP2000 parts as well (many DP1500/2000 parts are shared with the 15/20C).

Posted by Tom Bert (Member # 5719) on 06-12-2019, 03:20 AM:

The end-of-life announcement indeed only applies to new-builts projectors. For us, the end-of-service is the moment in time when spare parts (and other support) are no longer available. For DP2K-12C this is many years out (soooo far out that it's not even planned yet [Wink]

)

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 06-12-2019, 06:50 AM:

Yeah, I'm not too worried about parts for the 12C...it shares so many with the others in the C line. Even projectors that are out of parts support, like the DP100, share quite a few parts with the DP3000 so again, obtaining parts has almost been too good (I don't want, and thankfully, no longer have any DP100s left to support).

That said, the Cinionic entity that has taken over the cinema line for Barco has taken a new position on parts for projectors. Check your prices since April 2019. Compared to when they took over or even a year ago, those prices have skyrocketed. Furthermore, if you don't have the extended warranty, your parts will be ordered from Belgium with whatever wait times are associated with that. Cinionic appears to have taken an all-or-nothing attitude with the extended warranty (which they DID reduce in price significantly). However, the bulk of our multi-screen customers, based on the previous parts pricing, opted to not continue the warranty (smaller plexes of 3 and less, by and large have kept warranty because, economically, that made sense). So you may be able to obtain parts...but can you afford them going forward?

Posted by Bob Ezra (Member # 841) on 06-12-2019, 07:19 AM:

The responses are appreciated and mostly reassuring.
Does anyone know the extended warranty pricing/rules?

Posted by Bob Ezra (Member # 841) on 06-12-2019, 10:00 AM:

found the answer

parts only. Any missed time has to be paid up first if the projector is out of warranty. Additionally if out of warranty a site visit by a Barco factory tech is required to re-certify which runs

+ expenses

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 06-12-2019, 10:57 AM:

Bob, prices really shouldn't discussed in an open forum and you'll likely see yours blacked out in the near future.

Suffice to say, the prices you discussed are what your dealer quoted you.

Yes, there is a "Health check" fee and yes the projector has to be recertified by an authorized tech (so you have their time/expenses to factor in).

At this point in time, for Barco DCinema products, the extended warranty is one's best option for controlling expenses on parts replacement. Big ticket items are the key (light engine, ICP/ICMP, Enigma, plus the faster turn around times). You could buy 10-years of extended warranty and not spend as much as you would on a light engine, at this point in time. Please also remember, these rules could change at any time so the value could change with it.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 06-12-2019, 09:53 PM:

quote: Bob Ezra
Any missed time has to be paid up first if the projector is out of warranty

Hmm ... so if you're continuing a warranty without letting it lapse, this could be quite a good deal. But if you have a projector that has been out of warranty for a few years, the upfront cost of getting it back in will likely be significant.

I wonder if there are any circumstances under which they would refuse to recertify a projector with a lapsed warranty.

I recently replaced a fan on a projector (not a Barco) that is being operated in a very humid environment, and which had a lot of corrosion on the interior surfaces, including mold growth on the interior surface of the ICP faceplate. I suspect it's a case of when, not if, the ICP or the light engine goes out on that one.

If I were a tech representing a warranty provider charged with determining whether, for the figure Bob quotes, it was worth taking on the risk of offering parts coverage for that projector, my response, after a couple of nanoseconds' hesitation, would be, "Heeeeeeeeeeeylll, no!" I'm guessing that Cinionic's evaluators use a slightly more objective methodology than that, but I would be curious to know under what circumstances they might decide to offer coverage at a substantially higher price, or not at all.

With something like an IMS, the risk is a lot more quantifiable, because there aren't any parts (if your GDC IMS goes out under warranty, they simply exchange it for a new one, and then presumably fix and refurb yours at their shop for use in a future exchange with someone else), and the labor cost of doing the repair is a known quantity. With a projector, however, the problem could be anything from an easily accessible fan that can be replaced by the end user in 20 minutes, to a light engine that would take a manufacturer-trained tech half a day.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 06-13-2019, 07:11 AM:

I have done projector "health checks" and I can tell you, I look at the projector VERY closely and determine if it is essentially in like-new performance minus its actual age. So, if it is abused, that is how I would report it.

You are supposed to take pictures of it, inside and out (showing serial numbers and you'll see those numbers in several places inside the projector). I also take a picture of the final image on screen. They want the logs as well. It is pretty thorough. A health check is several hours long.

Barco does not charge for the "missed" years (NEC does, Christie, has a 1-year penalty, as I recall).

Posted by Bob Ezra (Member # 841) on 06-13-2019, 09:43 AM:

Steve said "Barco does not charge for the "missed" years"

But according to my quote, they do.

What am I missing here?

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 06-13-2019, 01:01 PM:

I don't know. You would need to speak to the person that provided the quote. Perhaps the rules have changed since the last one I put back in warranty.

Posted by Bob Ezra (Member # 841) on 06-14-2019, 01:48 PM:

Steve was right

Barco does not charge for missed years

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 06-14-2019, 03:10 PM:

Which presumably is why they do such a thorough inspection, as Steve describes, before agreeing to re-warranty a projector. They want to know what they're letting themselves in for.

Posted by Harold Hallikainen (Member # 5405) on 06-14-2019, 04:33 PM:

Kinda like insurance and preexisting conditions. Without the "health check" or a continuous warranty ("mandate"), people would only buy the warranty coverage when the projector broke.

Harold