This is topic best practices in forum Digital Cinema Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Armand Daiguillon (Member # 10334) on 07-18-2019, 02:06 PM:
 
Hi all,

I recently took over a small theater and its my first experience with digital cinema. At this location they turn the amps off every night - but leave the projectors on. (nec900c's) Would this be considered best practice for this type of equipment ?
It would seem that at the very least that they should be put into stand-by every night ? I was told that GDC who I guess we have a maintenance contract with wants them on 24/7 so they can push updates as needed. To me leaving on 24/7 seems odd ....what are y'all thoughts on these booth practices ?
Also any thoughts on GDC in general ?

Thanks !!!
 

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Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 07-18-2019, 02:10 PM:
 
What model GDC servers do you have? Servers should generally be left running 24/7, and occasionally (weekly or monthly) power cycled for maintenance purposes. If there is an IMB in the projector, it may be that the projector is left powered on so that the IMB is always on and, therefore, remotely accessible for upgrades as you mentioned. If your GDC servers are stand alone servers, where the media block is inside the server rather than in the projector, then I can't think of a reason not to put the projectors in standby at night.

GDC servers are pretty reliable and their service is top notch. I think you'll be happy with them.
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 07-18-2019, 02:48 PM:
 
Our projector has a GDC IMB and we do power it down at night. Since we only do one show most nights, it seems silly to leave it on all the time mostly due to the wear and tear on the fans. Our machine is not always connected to the internet so we don't need to worry about updates, they're done by our tech during service visits or "by appointment," so to speak.

We DO leave our external storage device on all the time, thereby reducing startup wear and tear on the RAID drives. We still have had to replace the drives every 18 months or so (on average) though, so I don't know if that practice makes any difference. If we shut it off at night though, then we'd probably wear out the power switch...so bottom line, it's easier to just leave it on.
 

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Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 07-18-2019, 03:51 PM:
 
Ideally, the projector should be put into standby when it's not in use. However, that will put the GDC IMB to sleep, meaning that GDC won't be able to connect to it remotely. That is probably why they want you to leave the projector on, but lamps off (flashing green tail lights) when the system is not in use.

That having been said, if the NOC can get in to your booth via Teamviewer (or similar), they can bring the projector out of standby and power it up, so I don't see why they need to insist on it being left on. I would suggest that you double check with GDC that they do actually require this, and if they don't, put the projectors into standby overnight.

The gotcha with leaving the projectors fully powered up (apart from the lamps) is that, per NEC's recommended maintenance regime, you're supposed to replace all 16 fans after every 20,000 hours of spinning. If the projector is powered on 24/7, that means about every two and a half years. This is not a job for the faint hearted (in particular, getting at the fans behind the lamp compartments and in front of the card cage requires major disassembly) - it takes several hours, even for a trained tech to do, and the cost of the fans themselves is nontrivial. So this is a significant operating expense if you do leave your projector in the flashing green tail light condition permanently, when a show is not in progress.

The only other thing I'd flag up about your equipment is that NEC recently released a new model of lamp for your projector. The old one is NP-9LP02; the new one is NP-9LP06. There is a known issue with the 02s, which is that sometimes, if they blow while lit, they can short, thereby taking the ballast out with them. As with the fans, getting a ballast replaced is a pricey repair. The 06s significantly reduce this risk (though they don't eliminate it entirely).

Therefore, if your projectors currently have 02s in them, my inclination would be to replace them a couple of hundred hours before they reach warranty hours (2,800 rather than 3,000), to reduce the risk of them nuking their ballast even further. And when you do replace the lamps, make sure you ask for 06s from your dealer specifically.
 

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Posted by James Wyrembelski (Member # 9037) on 07-18-2019, 04:23 PM:
 
Interesting. I also have an NEC900. I was told its fine to just leave it on and to maybe power cycle it once a week or month. I was also informed to just leave the amps on.

I usually shut everything off Sunday night since we are closed on Mondays.
 

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Posted by Armand Daiguillon (Member # 10334) on 07-18-2019, 10:02 PM:
 
Thats some good info - thanks all
 

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Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 07-19-2019, 05:34 AM:
 
Are NEC lamps guaranteed for hours AND number of strikes like Sony's?

When it comes to power, I suppose it depends on how many shows you run. If you run shows 2 days a week, then I would power off in between. If you run shows every day, indeed Data Centres have shown that HDD's will last longer if they spin all the time. But if you have an IMS, then keeping the IMS on means you need to keep the projector on (which means more dust in and fans getting older sooner as Leo pointed out)

More in general, electronics don't like being switched on and off so in the long term it may be better if you leave everything on. But you also need to consider the price of a new/repaired amplifier versus the energy you are saving. Indeed, you should also consider the lost show. The software update is nonsense, your server is not Windows 10! Updates are rare and must be scheduled with you, may/will need a reboot and definitely WILL need a test after they are applied. Unless there is a major issue, updates should be performed when the service engineer shows up for maintenance.

Personally, I would keep a stand-alone server on all time but I would switch everything else off.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 07-19-2019, 08:28 AM:
 
I installed 30+ of the same identical systems. Except for a few with a factory built in wiring issue on the NC-900 lens mount the projectors have been extremely reliable I recommend you keep your extended warranty active on the GDC. I had two where media blocks failed and one where the NIC died. I believe they are still extending the SX-3000's. They will still extend it if they are already out of warranty or if it does fail out of warranty. But they charge a lot more to extend it after a failure

quote: Marco Giustini

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Are NEC lamps guaranteed for hours AND number of strikes like Sony's?

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quote: James Wyrembelski

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Interesting. I also have an NEC900. I was told its fine to just leave it on and to maybe power cycle it once a week or month.

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quote: Steve Guttag

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So we have the automation (Eprad eCNA) do a graceful shutdown

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quote: Steve Guttag

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However, this dirt pump...er fan will be running 24/7 filtering all of the booth air and eventually wear itself out.

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I have yet to lose a single fan in any NEC. Some going on nine years old now! I have replaced critical fans, AC On, Power On and ICP, every five years.
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 07-19-2019, 01:40 PM:
 
Mike--

If you are regularly replacing drives every eighteen months (as opposed to just having a bad batch once), something is probably very wrong. Do you have a vibration problem with the storage device? Is it on a UPS or at least a power conditioner?

What is the failure mode that prompts replacement? Are you at least getting warranty replacements?
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 07-19-2019, 02:25 PM:
 
Scott,

He is only 150 feet (mabie) from the Burlington Northern train tracks and at least five or six coal trains a day rumble through there at a slow pace. And I sometimes wondered about that causing issues. The drives in the original server were shock mounted and never failed. See attached picture. Theater has a red X on it.


 

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Posted by Armand Daiguillon (Member # 10334) on 07-22-2019, 01:08 AM:
 
It still seems a lot of fans are still running in the projector while in stand by - is it better to shut it down completely ?
Or is stand by still the best way to go over night ?

Thanks !
 

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Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 07-22-2019, 02:12 AM:
 
See steve’s comment!
 

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Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 07-22-2019, 03:30 AM:
 
Years ago, we used to debate whether to leave tube-type equipment on 24/7 or power it down when not in use. At various daytime-only radio stations, we'd leave the tubes lit overnight, and then we'd try powering them down. In all cases, there were people who were completely convinced you should do it one way or the other.

In the end, I found that leaving tubes lit for equipment that tended to exhibit temperature drift over the time it took to fully warm up seemed to make sense. Otherwise, tube life vs electric expense seemed more or less a wash.

I've heard it said that we should never turn off the servers, the projectors, our various PCs, and various combinations of them all. I've tried it and, again, it doesn't seem to make much difference either way.

On average, my equipment is actually productive about 4 hours a day. So... instead of leaving it running, uselessly, for the other 20, I power it all down... everything. After I gracefully power down my servers, I remove their power, as well as to the projectors, by shutting off their respective UPS. Then, I pull the breakers. The stuff is powered off cold.

My projectors have been reliable... my drives last about 4 years and my UPS batteries, about 5. Both are on replacement schedules. All of it seems to be fairly predictable.

We do the same with the PCs that run our music automation, audio processing and POS stations, with no ill-effects that I can identify. Every night... boot up from scratch, run the show, then power them back off.

Just doesn't seem much of a big deal to me... do what makes sense to you.
 

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Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 07-22-2019, 07:33 AM:
 
Jack
If you’re only using the equipment 4 hours a day, it may be well worth switching it off when not in use. The money saved on electricity will well compensate for a broken hard drive after a number of years.
The recommendations you find online should be evaluated on a bigger scale: electronics doesn’t like to be switched on and off. That’s a fact. That also does not mean that if you keep switching on and off your computer, then it’ll fail very soon: it means that if you take 100 computers and you switch them on and off every day, after a number of year you’ll likely to have some extra failures because of that. If you’re an end user, you likely won’t be able to see the benefit of keeping them on all the time yourself - besides the power saved. Also, this is statistics so equipment can fail anyway.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 07-22-2019, 08:15 AM:
 

quote: Armand Daiguillon

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It still seems a lot of fans are still running in the projector while in stand by

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