Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: HDMI sources in the IMB/IMS era, How do you switch to it?

This is topic HDMI sources in the IMB/IMS era, How do you switch to it? in forum Digital Cinema Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 09-15-2019, 01:53 AM:

Back in the "box server" days, alternative content inputs were DVI on all projectors and switching to them was via preset/channel button/command. Life was simpler but much more predictable.

Along comes the IMB/IMS type systems and projector manufacturers are dropping (or disabling) the DVI inputs in favor of using the IMB's HDMI/SDI inputs.

How to switch to them is up to the server company. Whereas in the past, one could easily automate the task via selecting a preset button, now it is a two-device issue. The projector has to be in a proper preset (possibly for color space reasons) AND the HDMI (or SDI) port has to be selected.

Dolby's DSS/CAT745 system did provide for a direct cue and one could even set up the system to always switch to HDMI at the end of the show but it did require RGB color space, not XYZ.

GDC has you run a "show" that has the HDMI (or SDI) live stream cue in it. This is quite awkward to automate (unless someone here has a good method to share) beyond having the HDMI "show" scheduled. Manual selection again, involves selecting a show, and running it and then selecting the appropriate preset on the projector.

Doremi (on the IMS...I have not worked with the ShowVault/IMB but I would presume it is pretty similar as Doremi seems consistent on their servers throughout their evolution) has a couple of methods. You can drill your way into the UI and select the HDMI or SDI inputs or you can create a Macro that does it for you. You still need to select the macro but once a Macro, it is a cueable feature and can be added to the "Quick Links" for faster access. it is still awkward because the user interface is awkward. One is selecting an input via a Web UI which is nowhere near as easy/convenient as pressing a projector preset/channel. It is possible to create a trigger and a "firealarm.cues.xml" file to create an external command to HDMI but still i'd rather it be a mere press of an appropriate preset button on the projector, just like it used to be.

For Barco projectors, the GPO function is pretty versatile. You can fire a GPO on any Macro so one can, if they are so inclined, wire say GPO4 (0-3 are reserved) to the GPI on the IMS (once first adding a power supply of 5-24V and resistor since the GPI of the IMS is an Opto that doesn't provide any current limited power) and get things back to where they were. I have used the fact that we use the eCNA automation (I'm sure the JNIOR would be fine too) to take the GPO from the Barco and then issue an Ethernet command back to switch the IMS so it is seamless to the user. They select HDMI 16x9 on the touchpanel or preset button of the projector and the server switches as does the projector. But boy you'd think they could have made that easier.

What are you all doing at your theatres that use the HDMI input regularly for either preshows or alternate content? Just having the user select both the projector preset AND go to the server's UI to change inputs? You'd think that with all of those pins back there on the edge connector they could have integrated the input switching portion with the various projector companies a bit better.

Barco's ICMP works pretty seamlessly for switching to HDMI via preset but they do have a nasty side-effect of now allowing a DCP to start if on HDMI (except for the black pattern where you best have a cue to switch to a DCP input before the black is over or the show stops).

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 09-15-2019, 11:00 AM:

For sites with ICMP and using an HDMI preshow or that have a lot of rentals that use HDMI (many churches meet in cinemas on Sunday mornings around here), I leave playlist templates that begin with a 5 or 10 second black pattern that cues the switch to server input. That way no scheduled show will fail until someone makes a playlist from scratch and forgets about the server input cue at head.
Most ICMP users do have the touchpanel and run Commander, rarely dropping out to Communicator. You can switch between inputs in Commander.
However, larger sites will have a TMS/LMS that automates the whole booth, pulling schedules form the boxoffice system and doing all the gruntwork once content has been ingested and playlists set up in the TMS/LMS.
The problem - many TMS/LMS systems compile and send a new CPL for every scheduled show. That allows a lot of flexibility with trailer packs etc, but as a rule they are incapable of including pattern black in their generated SPLs. They insert MOS black clips with cues attached.
It's difficult but not impossible with a Dolby TMS because they do not generate a new SPL for each show, you can make a playlist at the server and link a show name to it. These will also let you create a CPL in the TMS with Doremi server black pattern, but that's not a big deal because Doremi IMB and IMS servers automatically switch out of alternate content modes when a playlist is started.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 09-15-2019, 04:18 PM:

Exactly...people are having work around the limitations of the new equipment that they didn't have to work around before. It's silly that we're going backwards in that respect. If Barco ICMP is so incapable of running an SPL while the HDMI input is selected, it should at least give a configurable option of automatically switching to the player source when the DCP show is slated to run. That's pretty easy sort of coding but poor foresight. They also blew it when it comes to channel mapping. DCP standard puts BSl/BSr on 11/12. So to should be the HDMI outputs and/or make the HDMI channel routing configurable so regardless of how DCPs are routed, HDMI (or SDI) can follow.

But seriously, whereas the IMB/IMS is to be the Alternative content signal path, these manufacturers should have done a better job of integrating it with the projectors so it is a seamless transition between DCP and HDMI and SDI. The current state of things is just so much of a hack.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 09-15-2019, 09:20 PM:

Funny, ever since DCP-O-Matic came along I haven't used the HDMI input at all. I had no idea it was different. I'm glad for this info in case the need ever arises. (We haven't had a disk player in the booth since our Oppo player cratered several years ago.)

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 09-16-2019, 07:00 AM:

Yeah, if time is available, conversion to DCP is always the safest bet.

You can still use your DVI inputs on your projector. I was mostly referring to newer projectors where the DVI inputs have gone away with the presumption that the IMB/IMS will provide for the alternative content.

We cater to independents, screening rooms and art houses. They still have a vibrant alternative content usage from non-DCP sources. Some do their ads via a computer running a loop so rather than making an ad pack that has to be started at the right time...it is always running and they merely switch to DCP at the scheduled time.