quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

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On all GDC servers you replace the cert battery your self. The SR-1000 has a level indicator in the os for it

Mark

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Did someone ask about GDC in this thread?

I just had a couple of CAT745s (where you can also do battery updates, in the field and they too have a near worthless low battery indicator...doesn't tell you anything until it is essentially too late) get a soldered in 10-year battery so they should be good to go until 2029...when the servers and their projectors they are in are probably no longer needing the IMB.

But since you insist in bringing in non-sequitur things. Let's see... Dolby announces the end-of-sale on the IMS2000 2-months before its end and then also has FULL support of it for, at least 5-years after end of sale. GDC...gave 6-months notice form the end of sale to end of support on one server and 12-months for the rest (at least as it pertains to the mediablocks...the box servers themselves may still have parts available).

Bruce, thus far, Dolby has not charged for tech-support of their products (in or out of warranty) including the DSS, DCP and IMS line. Dolby has charged a nominal fee for software updates for products older than 3-years (and I mean very nominal...I think it is $30 list or so for say System 4.9 and that covers all updates within 4.9.x.x). But that's about it.

Dolby's support after the sale has been pretty top notch for me. That said, I think MOST of the DCinema projector and server manufacturers have had pretty top notch tech supports. I get excellent support from GDC, NEC, Barco, Dolby. No lie, I've gotten good/fast to-the-point help from all of them. This doesn't mean I like all of their policies but as far as tech support, they have great people working for them.
 

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Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 11-12-2019, 08:29 PM:
 
I've been looking at the IMS3000 as a replacement for both our CP850 and Barco Alchemy ICMP in our screening room.

Dolby Atmos playback is pretty flaky, although with the latest iterations of patches on both the ICMP and the audio processor it is mostly stable, but still from time to time, only power-cycling all of your equipment seems to help...

I somewhat expect Dolby to EOL the CP850 in the next year or so, as soon as the Dolby Atmos expansion in the CP950 becomes available. The hardware in the CP850 starts to get old pretty fast and I expect as soon as their OEM contract on it runs out, so will the production.

There are two things that are blocking right now though. The first of it is the relatively high price point of the Atmos license on the IMS3000 and the fact that even though you pay for this license, there are still zero analog output channels and I'm not willing to replace our QSC amps with the Dolby Multichannel Amp.

Unfortunately, there is no direct way to get from Atmos Connect to Q-Sys, which would make sense in our case. So, in this case I still need one or two DAC3201s.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-13-2019, 06:43 AM:
 
Marcel,

The Atmos license is the same for both the CP850 and the IMS3000. I wonder if there couldn't be an arrangement made between you and Dolby to transfer the license to the IMS3000.

Atmos Connect to Q-SYS has been a done-deal for years so I don't know what you are saying. That is, I have an IMS3000 connected directly to a Q-SYS QLAN-A with Atmos Receivers in the QSYS design and everything works as it should. I also have IMS3000 audio fully integrated into the QSYS environment (grab the fader anywhere...in Q-SYS, in the IMS3000, via automation, server...whatever and they track together as well as mute.

No need for DAC3201s.

Knock on wood, I haven't had any IMS3000 problems but I don't have a statistically relevant number of units in the field, at the moment to make any broad claims.
 

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Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 11-13-2019, 07:22 AM:
 
I'll ask Dolby what the possibilities are to transfer the license, good point.

Also, I shouldn't have listened to our QSC sales rep. Last time (not that long ago) I asked him if Q-Sys was able to connect with Dolby Atmos Connect he told me: They're working on it, but it wasn't entirely there yet... Yet the first Google query already points to the relevant Dolby document. Sorry for being lazy.

We're not yet using Q-Sys in our screening room other than some small experiments, but it could get rid of some old-school analog matrix switching once and for all.
 

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Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 11-13-2019, 08:39 AM:
 
The only problem I've ever had with the IMS3000 is with alternative content, specifically 4K (2160p) HDMI. When the software upgrade came out to enable this around this time last year, we had one Bel-Air Circuit customer who was eager to get 2160p HDMI working ASAP. The bottom line was that we could not get it to accept 2160p from the installation's Lumagen scaler for love nor money nor expletives. Dolby and Lumagen techs both suspected EDID bugs in the other's device, but were never able to pinpoint the glitch. If I hooked his Oppo or his Apple TV box straight into the IMS3000, 2160p worked without any problem; but not if they went through the scaler. The Lumagen either sent no picture at all, downrezzed it to 1080p, or sent an EDID to the source device telling it that it was only capable of 1080p.

Obviously this is not going to affect your average multiplex in the slightest, though, unless Screenvision or any of the other theater alternative content streaming services start to use 2160p HDMI. And even if they do, hooking the source device straight into the IMS3000 still seems to work OK.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-13-2019, 11:13 AM:
 
I have had such oddities when using multiple HDMI devices (not with the IMS3000...but in general). The only oddity I've had with the IMS3000's HDMI is that is has incorrectly "guessed" at the color space choosing RGB instead of YCrCb after going through a Crestron DM switcher.

I've had projector DVI ports confuse EDID systems, including from QSC's DCIO-H if there is a switcher upstream..despite all of the EDID's asking for 1080p multichannel.

HDMI with its nasty HDCP and fallible EDID is an absolute PITA

Things that should work on paper...don't and then the manufacturers start finger pointing claiming it works on their bench when they hook things straight up. None of which helps the customer that just wants to watch their video something or other on their high-dollar equipment.

As for scalers...I avoid them (or any excess processing) unless absolutely necessary. Barco's ACS-2048 was notorious for mucking up HDCP though it was a decent scaler. I've ended up putting scalers in feedback loops on matrix switchers so they are only in-line if the signal NEEDs it, if not, straight in and then out.
 

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Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 11-13-2019, 06:32 PM:
 
I've been using the FullHD and now the 4K version of this little tool in case of HDMI EDID and/or HDCP issues and it has saved the day for me on multiple occasions.

It can copy EDIDs from known good configurations, it can snif EDIDs and pretend to be one of those. And as a bonus, it also operates as a signal extender.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-14-2019, 07:12 AM:
 
Interesting...definitely worth taking a look.
 

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Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 11-14-2019, 09:09 AM:
 
Another vote for HD Fury boxes. I have a pricier version, but which has been worth its weight in gold for passing HDMI video and audio between devices when I simply couldn't any other way. The Windows app that comes with it also lets you see what it is doing to the EDIDs, HDMI and HDCP versions coming in and out, so you can actually figure out what the compatibility problem is, too.

Maybe they're called "HD Fury" because the make one's fury at having to deal with HDMI problems go away?
 

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Posted by Bruce Cloutier (Member # 9615) on 11-14-2019, 10:04 AM:
 
Since we are ranting a little... and that's my thing...

In my home theater I have been stuck with 2K upscaled because of all of this HDMI bologna. I even have some HD Fury but not compatible with the latest HDMI standard (I guess).

My issue is generally not being able to get both 7.1 (or any really) surround and a 4K virgin image at the same time. I use the surround sound amp for routing from Oppo, DirecTV, Roku and PC and it picks off the audio forwarding the video to a 4k 86" panel. On my 3rd surround model (one blown by lightning) I was close to having it all be perfect and... the HDMI standard changed. The new Roku 4 wouldn't play along. At that point my budget was blown and the finance minister lost patience with me. I was done chasing the holy grail and settled on the status quo. The panel upscales nicely and I am more about sound anyway. I can crank U-571 and make you fear each and every depth charge.

The surround receiver passes 4K but doesn't satisfy the latest encryption requirements (I guess). I can get 4K with direct connection but the sound fed back to the amp is sub-par (and difficult to sync). Not worth rewiring. So reevaluating from end to end to eliminate the broken HDMI logic would lead to further investments and politically, that ship has sailed.

And... therein lies the reason that I am not an HDMI fan.

Um, probably should just ditch the consumer equipment for serious professional stuff some day. Uh, once I cash-in that winning lottery ticket.
 

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Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 11-14-2019, 11:02 AM:
 

quote:

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Another vote for HD Fury boxes. I have a pricier version, but which has been worth its weight in gold for passing HDMI video and audio between devices when I simply couldn't any other way. The Windows app that comes with it also lets you see what it is doing to the EDIDs, HDMI and HDCP versions coming in and out, so you can actually figure out what the compatibility problem is, too.

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quote: Bruce Cloutier

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I even have some HD Fury but not compatible with the latest HDMI standard (I guess).

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quote: Bruce Cloutier

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Anyway, I am sure the HD Fury that I have is ancient. It is one of the models that removed the encryption and provided free access to content. It's in a box someplace.

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Sorry for going even further off-topic.

AFAIK there has never been a HDFury that strips HDCP, other as their Digital to Analog devices (HDMI to Analog RGB)*, but this was a legal route. What some of the models can do, is downgrade HDCP (for example, go from 2.x to 1.x) and that part is compliant with the specifications. Warner Brothers thought it was illegal, but they lost the court case against them.

* I used some of their original HDMI to Analog devices in combination with a whole array of Barco Reality 909 CRT projectors in edge-blend mode once. It remains one of the best projected digital images I've seen to date. Till this day, nothing can replace those deep blacks in combination with this kind of resolution.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-15-2019, 06:45 AM:
 
HD Fury, historically, were known for basically being an HDCP stripper. Originally, they would take HDMI signals and make RGBHV signals, but at full HD under the ruse that they were merely keeping legitimate analog HD devices in use but the A/V world was using them to strip HDCP. They were very publically sued with a cease and desist (and lost).

They are a company that will likely walk the fine line between legitimate and non-legitimate...including to forget about test modes and such.

That said, the HDMI consortium can kiss my butt...their "scheme" is so flaky that one can be fully HDCP compliant and STILL have things not work...in fact, the odds that it won't. About the only reliable way is a direct connection from source to sink.
 

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Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 11-15-2019, 08:01 AM:
 
I agree, HDMI is a bit a lost cause, but the problem is, that it wants to be an interconnect for everything... It's not just a simple high-capacity bit-pipe.

With all the different versions of both the link standard itself and the different HDCP standards, it's getting increasingly difficult to get stuff right. It doesn't help that there is so much crap out there that doesn't even dare to comply halfway with the complete standards...

Regarding HD Fury, AFAIK, they never lost a court case about their HDMI to Analog boxes, but they were pretty hard to get in the U.S. for quite a while, because content industry threatened to sue every distributor in the U.S. Their HDMI to Analog converters were really pretty top notch for what it was worth. On the Barco 909s we used, we had close to zero input noise and the picture was lightyears better than what any VGA RAMDAC produced at the time.

Also, those devices were only of limited use for copyright infringement. The copy protection on DVDs and the original Blu-Rays only lasted for weeks. So why go the route of capturing this stuff from an analog signal source anyway?

As for HDCP strippers... I've got an interesting device which I bought locally, it works only up to 1080p60 and was marketed as a HDCP compliant HDMI splitter, but it effectively removes HDCP from the output signal... I've only discovered this after we needed to capture some content from an AndroidTV box for some proportional material using a BlackMagicDesign capture card. We initially used the splitter to connect a simple monitor in between and it just worked. Later, when I directly connected the box to the capture card, it didn't work, because the capture card didn't want to do HDCP for obvious reasons...
 

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Posted by Bruce Cloutier (Member # 9615) on 11-15-2019, 08:12 AM:
 
Yup. I have pre- cease and desist HD Fury hardware. I used it primarily to keep my earlier rear projection system in operation which was eventually replaced by the 4K panel.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-15-2019, 08:34 AM:
 
It wasn't that the HDMI to analog stuff that got them into hot water, per say, it was their outright HDCP strippers that did with the 4K splitter landing them in hot water.

There definitely were other HDCP strippers out there but HD-Fury almost bragged about it...the others merely had test modes or, as you found, happily did it without broadcasting it.
 

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Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 11-15-2019, 11:26 AM:
 
This will work for connecting a lot, but not all, HDCP source devices to a Series 1 Barco or NEC. I recommended it to one customer who used it happily for about a year, before updating the firmware on his Oppo, after which, no more video. So I think the industry has sent out a kill code for it in a recent round of firmware updates. That is a bugger, because it used to be a very useful solution for people wanting to run HDCP alternative content into a Series 1 projector.

quote: Steve Guttag

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...or, as you found, happily did it without broadcasting it.

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quote: Leo Enticknap

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This will work for connecting a lot, but not all, HDCP source devices to a Series 1 Barco or NEC. I recommended it to one customer who used it happily for about a year, before updating the firmware on his Oppo, after which, no more video. So I think the industry has sent out a kill code for it in a recent round of firmware updates. That is a bugger, because it used to be a very useful solution for people wanting to run HDCP alternative content into a Series 1 projector.

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