Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: THE SOUND OF MUSIC (updated)

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Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 06-16-2005, 12:42 AM:

Title: ....... THE SOUND OF MUSIC
Distrib: .....20th Cen Fox (thru Criterion)
35mm Print #: A1600 -- but this has been revised from what Vernon posted below. All reels are now stereo. You would think when they do make up better prints form other prints, that they would at least designate the change by a new print number.

Release #:....n/a
Reels: .......12
Emulsion: ....Eastman
Base: ........Estar
Print Incept Date Code: none shown
Run Time: 174min
Trailers attached: None

Picture Format --
Anamorphic: 2.39

Sound format --
Analog: Stereo (all reels; none mono); these all just say STEREO in the soundtrack and the assumption is that with the introduction of SR, Dolby included SR in the soundtrack identification. i.e., if it doesn't say SR in the soundtrack but only STEREO, then it is Dolby A. Nowhere else, either on the print or on the cans is there a reference to SR. We assumed that because only STEREO was indicated that this was a Dolby A print. It sounded quite splended played back in Dolby A.

Digital: None

Cues: Most reels had lab cues. I believe two reels were hand made/clint etched

Scratches --
Base: Minor
Emulsion: R3 evidently had run off a drive sprocket and has sprocket scratchs on the far right corner of the screen. They are there, but not terribly distracting, although they unnecessarilly mar an otherwise very nice print.

Leader splices: For some ungodly reason, 2 ID frames were left on both heads and tails. Luckily back then editors waited to make reel breaks in very quite scenes so here keeping the two frames with the leader does not cause any obvious loss. Now if ONLY the people who handle this print down the line resist the temptation to cut MORE frames.

I peeled of ALL splicing tape so both leader and film body ends are clean and there is NO REASON WHATSOEVER to make new cuts.

Body splices: most reels are splice free.

Color: Saturation very good and what you'd expect from a reduction print from 65mm neg (focus too). No fading; skin tones are accurate. Good blacks.

Continuity: Excellent

Physical Condition --
Overall: B+ (WB's print score) If it didn't have those sprocket scratches, it would be an A-, maybe even an A

NOTES:

Intermission at the end of R7 -- Interm

Cans are badly battered and bent. Latches are evil things with sharp edges and will cut you as soon as you touch them.

As noted below, there was an additional piece of film spliced onto R1 as "Overture" music, which, also as correctly noted, was not part of this Roadshow title. In fact, at the end of that music is a fade in of a picture that is a duplicate of the very beginning of R8, i.e. the Entr'acte music for Part II coming out of Intermission. Evidently the print lost the Entr'acte music at the top of R8 and new footage must have been ordered but was never spliced in the correct place, but just stuck onto R1. If one ran the print as we received it, the misplaced entr'acte music being used as an overture would end with a fade-in and a shot that would mysteriously go black and up would come the Fox logo. How the last guy didn't see that this was just wrong is the real mystery. We put this in the correct place in front of R8/Start of Part II

Also, there was exit music footage after the credits at the end of R12. Much to my dismay, we couldn't play it because it was butcherd and it ends in the middle of music, so it's worthless. It would be nice if replicement for this music footage were re-ordered.

The Intermission title (end of R7) as of 29 July 05 is intact. It has not been spliced. Let's see how long THAT can be sustained.

All in all, it was a wonder to see this great musical restored to more than what was in circulation for many years -- those terrible faded mono prints.

Criterion has to be commended for keeping this print in good condition. Reel bands would help to insure film from unraveling. We put a goodly amount of artist tape to hold town leaders, but not everyone will do that which could lead to lots of film damage in transit.

It might do well for Criterion to put big official-looking notices in the can saying DO NOT MAKE NEW SPLICE CUTS. CUT ONLY ON EXISTING SPLICES. PRINTS WILL BE INSPECTED AFTER EACH ENGAGEMENT. I've see notices like this on prints from Paramount and I must say, for the kid who's only seen some other kid whacking off a frame for every splice they make and thinks that's the way it's done, this might at least be a wakeup call that, at least for THIS print, you are not supposed to cut new frames. Hey, it couldn't hurt.

Original Post:
They have it listed already in their brochure so presumably it's already booked (that's not always the case). This is not the bastardization sing-along crap, but the straight film.

Anyone know if there are any decent prints? The last time I ran it in the 80s there were nothing but 3 or 4 Films Inc. prints, horribly shifted to green(!) Also the one I got had a badly distorted mono soundtrack. And we all know where those Films Inc. prints wound up. If we get a print from that era, I will shoot myself.

Anyone run it recently?

Request #2. Anyone have a trailer they can loan me?

[ 08-12-2005, 08:22 AM: Message edited by: Frank Angel ]

Posted by Jonathan M. Crist (Member # 413) on 06-19-2005, 10:24 PM:

Frank -
I have an almost brand new 3 1/2 minute full trailer (flat format) from the 73 reissue that I could loan. On Eastman stock but only a very slight (almost imperceptible)pinkish cast. You pay the shipping and insurance. Email jm-wac@msn.com if interested.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 06-20-2005, 03:42 AM:

Jonathan,

You have email.

The generosity of some of the members of this forum is amazing.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 06-20-2005, 09:37 AM:

quote: Jonathan M. Crist
I have an almost brand new 3 1/2 minute full trailer (flat format) from the 73 reissue that I could loan. On Eastman stock but only a very slight (almost imperceptible)pinkish cast.

Sounds like it was kept cool and dry, which really slows down changes in the older dyes. Kodak introduced improved types of dye couplers for color print film in 1979, with complete conversion by the early 1980's:

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/products/chrono3.jhtml?id=0.1.4.28.6&lc=en

quote:
1979

EASTMAN Color LF Print film, 7378. Improved cyan dye post processing keeping. Process ECP. Markedly improved cyan dye dark-keeping stability. Discontinued January, 1982.
EASTMAN Color LFSP film, 7379. Same as 7378 except for Process ECP-2. Markedly improved cyan dye dark-keeping stability.1 Discontinued 1983.

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/products/chrono4.jhtml?id=0.1.4.28.8&lc=en

quote:
1982

EASTMAN Color Print film, 7/5384 Improved cyan dye dark keeping and red sensitivity to process variations. Process ECP-2A. Replaced 7/5381, 7/5383, 7378, 7379. In SMPTE Journal December 1982 and BKSTS Journal August 1983.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-20-2005, 10:25 AM:

There are no good 35mm prints that I have seen in the last decade, all beet red. There is at least one or perhaps two brand new 70mm prints in the Fox vault. This print was run at the Hollywood Egyptian Theatre a year or so ago. The last time I ran it was on the Millennieum at the Egyptian Theatre Film Fest in Boise, ID. That print was choppy and beet red but never the less we had a standing room only crowd and so many were turned away from the one showing that we ran an additional show on New Years Morning to another standing room only crowd at 9 A.M.. This film would still do huge buisness today if re-released in 70mm.

Mark

Posted by Vernon Cramer (Member # 1181) on 06-23-2005, 06:37 PM:

FOX
Scope 2.40
SR (except as noted below)
12 reels
Deluxe (?)

Criterion Print #A1600

NOTES:

1) This is one of a few prints Fox struck for a planned 30th anniversary limited theatrical release in 1995 that was scrubbed at the last minute. The prints sat at Fox for a few years, then most went to Criterion. Print was in great shape (color, no scratches, splices, etc, except as noted below).

2) The SR track (all reels except for Reel #2, see below) sounded good (CP-55, biamped JBL 4675s, 4641 subs, 8330 surrounds) though the mix seemed a little thin in some numbers, but not all. Organ in wedding sequence gave our system a workout.

3) Reel #1 had single shot of a few seconds that was completely red. Bizarre. Color on the rest of the reel was fine.

4) Reel #2 was from an earlier print, MONO track, some minor emulsion wear at head and tail, approximately 2 or 3 splices in the reel. Color was off slightly compared to rest of print, primarily in the blacks, not as noticable in other scenes. (We labeled the reel "MONO" before shipping print back.)

5) Entre'Act was MONO and spliced onto reel incorrectly, resulting in repeat of a couple of bars of music (Entre 'Act track runs a couple of seconds under fade in to 2nd half of film). Didn't have time to edit and remove excess audio.

6) For some unknown reason, another copy of the Entre 'Act, also in MONO, was spliced on to the head of reel #1 as an overture, but the original roadshow version did not have this.

7) We ran this print in July 2003 (corrected from earlier verion of this post).

[ 07-08-2005, 01:53 PM: Message edited by: Vernon Cramer ]

Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 02-07-2009, 08:27 AM:

It has been 1324 days since the last post.

Posted by Paul Gordon (Member # 3320) on 02-07-2009, 08:27 AM:

The 35mm print we just got

Is very warm (magenta balanced)

and mono, with 4 track mag

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-07-2009, 11:44 AM:

quote: Paul Gordon
Is very warm (magenta balanced)

You mean faded Eastman which it undoubdtly is!

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 02-07-2009, 02:19 PM:

quote: Paul Gordon
and mono, with 4 track mag

Did that come from the distributor? If so, did you request it that way?

Posted by Paul Gordon (Member # 3320) on 02-08-2009, 09:44 AM:

no, we don't have a mag reader... they just gave us what they had I guess which kinda sucks

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 02-08-2009, 03:27 PM:

A few years ago the film depot asked me which print the they should keep a mono optical or the mag op print I said keep the mag op [Smile]

A theatre that runs classic films should have by default 4 track mag if they want to present some of the older prints properly

Posted by Paul Gordon (Member # 3320) on 02-08-2009, 03:33 PM:

expect that the mag tracks have warped the film... and the film is super brittle.. that film needs to be reprinted!

Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 12-11-2015, 03:53 PM:

It has been 2497 days since the last post.

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 12-11-2015, 03:53 PM:

...and now, the DCP...

THE SOUND OF MUSIC
20th Century-Fox, via Deluxe
301GB / 4K / 5.1
2.20AR, pillar-boxed inside 2.39 Container

Contains Intermission card and Entr'Acte music.
Presented as one continuous DCP (not in two parts)
It will not be possible to exclude the intermission.
Shortest possible intermission (i.e. play-thru without pausing) would be 2 minutes.

TRT 2:54:25 (not including pause for Intermission)

1:42:16 - ACT ONE ftb
1:42:18 - INTERMISSION title card
1:42:36 - INTERMISSION title card ftb

1:42:32 - ENTR'ACTE music starts (on black screen)
1:44:37 - ACT TWO image on-screen

2:53:37 - "The End" (first instance of end titles)
2:53:47 - Cast of Characters (first of 2 screens)
2:54:25 - END

Last title on-screen is "Baroness Ebberfeld...."

Bummer about how they handled the 70mm 2.20 aspect ratio, but it looks good, and sounds good (panned dialogue!).

No subtitle option for "sing-a-long"

Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 12-20-2015, 10:05 PM:

The Sound of Music 2
Print #A2002- #2A2002 new 9/3/10
FOX Criterion Distribution
Play dates 12/18/2015 12/20/2015

Spindle hole damaged mountings

The print is complete with all frames and no detectable missing footage. Head and tail splices in tact.

Emulsion side of entire print has been dragged over something causing vertical line damage showing in the picture.

Reels 11 & 12 have continuous long green scratches throughout and other reels have intermittent green scratches.

Because of reels 11 & 12 the print is no longer show-able. This is platter damage since the leaders are not damaged.

Sound SR SRD DTS (no discs received)

The show was done with BD material as no replacement 35mm prints are available.

Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 01-02-2017, 07:51 PM:

It has been 378 days since the last post.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 01-02-2017, 07:51 PM:

Does anyone know if this DCP has the Todd-AO stage extra audio channels on 9 and 10?

We're playing it later in the month, and I'd like to get our system set up to play the five stage channel mix if it's on the DCP.

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 02-22-2017, 02:43 PM:

Our DCP was 5.1 (both times)
Dialogue is panned tho.

Posted by Jonathan Goeldner (Member # 4854) on 03-04-2017, 09:50 PM:

didn't Fox 'Atmos' (yes I used that as a verb) "Oklahoma!" I'm surprised they didn't do it for this, to have the music spread across the screen to duplicate five stage channel sound. Actually the bluray places the voices in between the left/center, center/right speakers to recreate that effect

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-05-2017, 07:22 AM:

I've yet to, personally, observe any of the 70mm features get a proper "ToddAO" transfer on the sound (5-screen with mono surrounds). Yes, the mono surround would use channels 5/6 as normal with redundant information on both to create the mono surround. What was done to "Oklahoma!" was criminal. Not only was the original, Academy Award winning mix omitted, they offered a stupid "7.1" version that merely turned off the rear surrounds and played a "stereo surround" out of Ls/Rs. So the 5.1 mix was more faithful to the original. Yes, you had to get "Atmos" to get the 5-channel mix.

I'm somewhat familiar with The Sound of Music audio and there is substantial use of LC and RC. All 3-shots have people right on those channels. I don't know what Hollywood's aversion to always issuing the original mix as well as the 5.1 version. Yes, you HAVE to provide a 5.1 version to ensure that all cinemas can play a title. That was part of the DCI spec. But as a Version File, ALWAYS provide the original mix. Cinemas, like the Egyptian will want to present a title in as close to the original release format as available and they are not alone. There ARE a significant number of cinemas around the world that can play 5-screen channels that cannot play Atmos. It is just plain STUPID to make Atmos a requirement to play a classic format. Furthermore, people seeking out an original version will not want a modern-day person's interpretation of a yesteryear mix.

Honestly, get with the 70mm bandwagon and just release the title in 70mm!

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-20-2017, 12:39 PM:

The aversion is that Hollywood thinks no one still had 5 channels behind the screen. They also "think" all prints made must have noise reduction. But as you know both are false.

Mark

Posted by Paul Linfesty (Member # 214) on 03-21-2017, 01:17 AM:

Wasn't THE SOUND OF MUSIC was mixed with three stage channels only, and was tricked up to 5 stage channels in the sounding of the print process?

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-23-2017, 01:20 PM:

The dialog is panned during re-recording. I have actually been in that mix theater at Todd-AO... it just had regular Altec A-4's with subs in it at the time I was there, but they were somewhat souped up. Incredible sound and dynamic range.

Mark