Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Star Wars Attack of the Clones

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Posted by Tom Fermanian (Member # 1094) on 05-02-2002, 07:05 PM:

Many screenings where to be held today (5-2-2002) for exhibitors nationwide, anyone has seen or has any comments of this new saga?

Posted by Jason Black (Member # 684) on 05-02-2002, 07:24 PM:

My sound tech was doing a PM call at one of our screener locations. I'm trying to contact him now to see how it held up...

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The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese!

Posted by Tom Fermanian (Member # 1094) on 05-02-2002, 07:31 PM:

Thanks, watching out for it!

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 05-02-2002, 09:32 PM:

Well, it's a Star Wars movie!
Lots of the same - admittedly good - music, spaceships zooming, a look at how Darth began to turn toward the dark side... surprises from Yoda, rather a lot of clones and robot soldiers. Chases, devious plots, treachery, and a palatable dose of Jar-Jar.
Not as slow and tedious as Eepisode 1, keeps a pretty tight pace going with a lot of switching between various story threads. When things slow down in one thread they jump to another; the various main characters are rarely together.
And I didn't see the same strong focus on side markets: the pod race in Ep.1 seemed to be there just to create a video game market and Jar-Jar looked like a (misguided) attempt create a "cute" character and sell a lot of dolls (errr - I mean action figures). There is one character (and toys coming soon...) in a cool costume complete with an array of tools, trick weapons, rockets, and whiz-bangs that would make Batman envious.

I think this film will do very well. Spiderman better make it's money back before SWEP2 releases.

(I thought the ending was flat though. I can't say much about it (respecting the spoiler clause) but I though it an odd place to end "The Attack of the Clones". There's a lot of story space left for Ep.3...)

The print I saw is gorgeous; whatever the digital presentation looks like, digital production works! I didn't spot any artifacts. hair detail etc was excellent, contrast and colour great, just a fine image. Rendering supposedly with a mix of 2K and 4K resolution but my info is not from an authoritative source.

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 05-03-2002, 01:19 AM:

The FILM print I saw was hideous: basketball size grain all over the place, especially in the dark scenes, 'off' colors, occasional dust spots and hairs (but not enough to really be objectionable). Things began to improve toward the end as far as the graininess went, but the grain was still there.

Story wise: Without spoiling anything, it has its share of great action and the things SW fans expect to see in a SW movie. There are some parts that DRAG in the middle, and the ending was a tad anticlimactic, screaming 'To Be Continued'

If this story is to continue to a smooth segue into Episode IV, I get the feeling we might see a 4-hour Episode III on the horizon...

-Aaron

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 05-03-2002, 01:54 AM:

I'll withhold any judgments about the story for "Episode II" and how it may end at a wierd point over the memories of "The Empire Strikes Back" (or what may be known as "Episode V' when the DVD comes out). Many critics say the 1980 installment was dramatically the best of the whole lot, even though the leaving-you-hanging ending really pissed off a lot of folks. I recall my Uncle John storming out of the theater over how that one ended.

I hope the print quality is decent, but since the whole movie was videotaped (oh I'm sorry, "shot digitally") I'm not expecting really great things. Hopefully the image quality won't be as blurry as the trailers I've seen.

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 05-03-2002, 12:11 PM:

I saw it on a smallish screen, so grain wasn't an issue. I can't see why grain would be worse or better than a "real film" though - the release and intermediate stocks used should be equivalent.
There were a few sparkles and dark specks but not an objectionable amount.
I expected to see some pixel artifacts, and didn't. I will go and see it in a full size cinema, and there's a digital presentation in Toronto as well that I'm interested in seeing. No idea what screen size they are using - it's at an AMC with 4 huge screens and a lot of smaller ones.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-03-2002, 01:14 PM:

Aaron said: "...basketball size grain all over the place, especially in the dark scenes, 'off' colors..."

In video systems, electronic "noise" can look similar to film "grain". In video cameras, noise is often most apparent in the dark areas of the scene, especially when the camera gain is increased for shooting with lower light levels:
http://www.kodak.com/cluster/global/en/service/tib/tib4131.shtml

THIS LINK EDITED BY MODERATOR FOR PROPER SCREEN SIZING

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/news/wallis.shtml

Dave said: "I expected to see some pixel artifacts, and didn't."

It's unlikely you'll actually see the pixel structure of the camera CCD, due to the Nyquist filtering used to minimize aliasing, and the low resolution of the HDCAM recording format. Here is what John Galt of Panavision had to say on the CML on April 18, 2001:
_____________________________________________________________________

A 1920 x 1080 pixel 2/3" CCD has pixels which are 5 x 5 microns in size. If we are not going to upset Mr. Nyquist (create aliased images or moire patterns on fine detail) then the minimum circle of confusion is 10 microns. In practice, because optical low pass filters have slope, just like electronic filters, the real circle of confusion is more like 2.3 pixels or 12 microns. Please remember depth of field is a convenient construct, a rule of thumb. When you focus a lens only a small point in space is truly in focus. Depth of field implies that a certain amount of defocus will be acceptable. Whether this is true or not depends on many factors. Do your own tests for your particular application.

John Galt,

Senior Vice President, Advanced Digital Imaging Panavision 6219 De Soto Avenue Woodland Hills CA 91367-2602

VOICE: 818-316-2208 FAX: 818-316-1121 E-MAIL: John_Galt@Panavision.com

_____________________________________________________________________

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John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 05-03-2002, 03:29 PM:

Jumping back and forth between stories is part of what killed Jedi and Episode 1 (whatever that one was called) for me. I hate that! It gives the movie a very half-assed feel and I hate it when too much is happening at once. Very disjointing, or something like that. Might as well be watching 2 or 3 different movies at once (with only one of them being good) and jumping between auditoriums. And now you are saying that Episode 2 does the same thing?

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 05-03-2002, 04:55 PM:

John P:

If that grainy, ugly mess was the 'super-duper-film-extincting-future-of-moviemaking' Lucas/Sony/Panavision camera at work, we are all doomed. It looked like !!!!

KEEP SHOOTING ON FILM!!!

-Aaron

Posted by Scott D. Neff (Member # 185) on 05-05-2002, 05:41 PM:

I'm anxious to see how the 3rd film will tie it all together... will it be a seamless transition?

Posted by Nathan Guerriero (Member # 1214) on 05-06-2002, 04:16 PM:

I saw Episode II Thur at the McClurg Court theatre in Chicago. I believe it is the only THX screen in Chicago proper, and the presentation was excellent.

I'm afraid that I have little to add in the film vs. 24p debate, but I will say that the film was "digital" to the point of obnoxiousness. I saw two scenes in the film that looked to me like they were shot against real locations. Everything else looked like like it was done against the green screens. For my money, this just doesn't look real, it looks realistic. It's a subtle difference, but I don't think that you need to be very discerning to see that these scenes are not real. Furthermore, I think that the actors' performances suffer, not having an environment with which to interact. There were many points in the film where the characters just looked kinda lost.

As far as the story goes, I wasn't very impressed. The first hour of the film is pretty slow. Lucas also kinda beats you over the head with the forshadowing. At one point, Kenobi says to Anikin, "I swear you'll be the death of me some day." Kinda obvious. The final battle scene is pretty cool, as are the various story reveals involving the storm troopers, Boba Fett, fate of the Jedis, etc.

I'm not sure what people are interested in hearing about, or if people want spoilers or whatever, but I'll be happy to sound off about whatever people want to know.

Posted by Will Morrow (Member # 792) on 05-07-2002, 05:55 PM:

Saw this in a less than one year old THX certified house, sound was amazing. This was my first THX experience, and it was grand. I immediatly noticed digital artifacting, especially in darker scenes, with greys and blacks. The actual print was in near perfect shape, but the digitized picture was way to obvious. Glare effects were used a lot, I am assuming to distract you eye from digital flaws, and of course the "blurr" effect (anti aliasing??) was in full effect as well. The story was fine, the characters were very cool actually. I am not sure what I think aout Hayden's acting, I felt like I was watching a Galactic version of Life as a House, and instead of Klein as his father, the jedi counsil was there telling him what to do.
Portman makes him look like an amateur.

At just over two hours, this may be a tough one for little ones to sit through, but then again, LOR did quite well, as did Harry Potter.

I liked this movie, did not like the format it was shot on. Bring back the detailed models, and earthly locations...damn computers to cyber hell.

:-) Rant done...this will make some loot!

-Later.

Oh...YODA RULES...EVEN IF HE IS DIGITAL NOW.

Posted by David Baum (Member # 568) on 05-07-2002, 07:46 PM:

hi
haven't seen it yet but like most of you, I regret those cool models and more "real" sets for the actors to evolve in, as in the many shots in Empire strikes back, New Hope etc. this all digital thing is annoying and "fake".
A Panavision-shot version would have been nice to see but impossible I suppose. I LOVE Panavision (PEARL HARBOR, STAR WARS, CAPTAIN CORELLI MANDOLIN, ALIEN ). Deep, sharp, dense and generally much less grainy than super 35.
As anyone had the chance to see it in a 3DLP theater and on a film print transfer btw ? comparison ?

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 05-08-2002, 10:54 AM:

Anyone noticed the irony in the fact that the main 1 sheet poster for this film is drawn by that great artist Drew? and not done on a Mac like 99.9% of posters nowadys?

So, posters can be analogue, but the movie must be computer?

(sigh)...

BTW: Welcome back Drew! Love your work!

John

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"It's not the years honey, it's the mileage". - Indiana Jones.

Posted by Carl King (Member # 398) on 05-09-2002, 01:36 PM:

haven't seen it. don't wanna see it but I'm gonna get stuck seeing it.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 05-11-2002, 08:58 PM:

Warning: Spoilers ahead!!!

This movie is almost worth watching, but can be downright boring. There is nothing memorable like a Pod race scene or anything that you'll want to see again. It doesn't cut between 3 or 4 different stories like Jedi and Phantom Menace did... only 2 that end up as one, which is the way it should be done. C-3PO's antics will make you groan because it is just stupid as all hell when his head gets knocked off and a machine puts his head on an evil droid that attacks Jedis. You hear C-3PO scream out "Die Jedi Scum!" while he is shooting and then he says "Oh deary oh my what oh what did I just say? Heavens to betsie" (or something very very close to that). It's baaaad. I also noticed much of the dialog was stolen word for word from the other movies in the trilogy. Such as the scene were the evil Jedi has Obi-Wan captured and he says something like "Join me, and together with our combined power we can destroy the sith and bring order to the universe". Obi Wan replies "I'll never join you!". Watching Yoda in his lightsaber battle is cool, but I couldn't help but laugh as he was jumping around. He seemed very agile. I'd like an explanation of why he needs a cane to walk when he can jump around like a bastard!

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 05-11-2002, 10:41 PM:

>>Anyone noticed the irony in the fact that the main 1 sheet poster for this film is drawn by that great artist Drew? and not done on a Mac like 99.9% of posters nowadys?<<

The artist's name is Drew Struzan.

Drew Struzan is my all time favorite poster artist. He has done scores of posters during the 80's and early 90's, and is the artist that George Lucas comissioned to do all the Star Wars (and the latter two Indiana Jones) movies, and several Star Trek items as well.

Drew also did the second 'Harry Potter' one-sheet.

...and I agree 100% that it is so refreshing to see movie posters with HAND DRAWN ART on them as opposed to a giant photograph or digital image.

-Aaron

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 05-12-2002, 11:34 AM:

Actually it's Drew sTRuzan.

Drew Struzan

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 05-12-2002, 06:04 PM:

AGGH! For almost twenty years I have been misspelling Drew's last name?

I feel like a total idiot now

thanks for the link!!

-Aaron

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 05-12-2002, 10:43 PM:

I'm happy to see Drew getting some work. Although, his work on the "Episode II" poster is not his best ("Back to the Future" is still my favorite of his).

Having a formal BFA degree in illustration, the state of movie posters is a favorite rant and bitch complaint of mine these days. In the last 10 to 15 years, computers have done terrible harm to movie poster art. So much of it these days is just boring head photography shots of actors (and badly Photoshopped at that at times, just check out Kevin Spacy's neck on the art for "K-Pax" --just what in the hell is that!? They put the anti-turkey neck blur to full maximum).

It is a very very rare occurence to find great movie posters being done by great illustrators like Drew Struzan. I miss the days where you could find a great Amsel poster like "Raiders of the Lost Ark" or "Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome". I miss seeing movie posters being done by guys like Bob Peak. His poster art of "Apocalpse Now" is 1000 times better than some boring Photoshopped collage of actors heads. What about Boris Vallejo? Sure, that guy paints lots of Conan murals in oil, but he also did the "National Lampoon's Vacation" poster and can create images more compelling than just straight photography.

There are some fellows these days doing really good work with computers. I forget the name of the guy who did the poster art for "Lord of the Rings" and "Pearl Harbor", but that guy knows his shit when it comes to manipulating photo imagery. Swedish designer Adreas Lindholm is one of my favorite graphic artists, and him and his "metalheart" crew can come up with some great type designs and graphical constructions. Their stuff on the "Resident Evil" campaign was really cool even though the movie itself sucked.

Anway, movie poster art overall could be a hell of a lot better than it is currently. Right now 99% of it is just plain boring --and very geared to the small box sizes of VHS tapes and DVD discs. A movie poster is 41" X 27". It is high time we start getting more art appropriate for that format.

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 05-14-2002, 03:08 PM:

I had an opportunity to see Episdoe 2 this weeked when they were testing our DLP system. I'm not that crazy about Star Wars, but I wanted to see it a.) to be able to say I saw it a week early

and b.) to see DLP in action. The movie sucked, but the presentation was phenominal.

As with Episode 1, I enjoyed the story, but the movie was not very well done. One of my biggest complaints about Episdoe 1 was that kid couldn't act! But that's OK, because he's just a kid. Well I think that Hayden Christensen did just as bad a job playing the new Anakin. I thought he was absolutely phenominal in Life As a House and was thirlled to learn he would be the new Anakin. WHAT HAPPENED TO HIM? I think, though, that it wasn't so much his fault but just the way the role written.

And what's up with Yodda??? Why does he need a cain to walk, but can fight with a light saber better than anyone? I cracked up when I saw that scene. It was absolutely ridiculous! And speaking of light saber scenes, why do they always have to have one at the end like that? The idea is getting old. It was just like watching the Darth Maul scene at the end of Episode 1.

In many scenes, the computer effects were totally obvious! It's as if they didn't even attempt to make it look real. I can't stand that.

Overall, a good story, but not a well-done movie.

Posted by Chad Souder (Member # 343) on 05-15-2002, 10:33 AM:

I give this one a C+ at best. It drug on soooooo bad, the dialog was horrible, and the Yoda fight thing was just purely comical. Just flat out stupid. But like Aaron mentioned before, our print looked like ass. Grainy all over the place, in addition to large brown spots thrown it. I definately wasted 2 1/2 hours with this one.

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"Asleep at the switch? I wasn't asleep, I was drunk!" - Homer Simpson

Posted by Adam Wilbert (Member # 1184) on 05-15-2002, 01:13 PM:

Saw it last night at our sister theater: I missed the first half-hour because I was looking for things to complain about, then gave up because I was annoying the people i was watching it with (Star Wars people, not film people). But, aside from the obviously CGI shots and soft, almost transparent, edges of the live-action shots against the backgrounds, I really had to look harder than i expected. I did notice a lack of texture detail, in skin tones especially: like everyone was wearing too much makeup. The muddy dark scenes only showed up once that I noticed (the padme bedroom scene). The film had one cement splice, but there was absolutely no discoloration on either side of it, the best one i've ever seen. And there was one 5 second spurt of white-speck-blizzard towards the middle.

As for the movie itself: I enjoyed the engine sound efects, but wonder why the blasters still sound cheesy and lame. The city scapes were terriffic and reminded me of my favorite scenes from The 5th Element (a movie i've always wanted to see a spin-off made from set intirely in the city) and Blade Runner. ... C-3po, as much as i like his character, was annoying. I think hes the new "jar jar for episode 2".
One final question though: Why on earth is EP:2 rated PG and Spiderman PG-13? I can't figure that one out as I don't believe spidey had any beheadings (vs. SW's half dozen not including droids) amputations (vs. SW's 2 or 3) blatent simulated acts of animal cruelty, etc. $$$?

-Adam

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 05-15-2002, 01:21 PM:

Spidey must have gotten the PG-13 solely because of the way Green Goblin died during the final battle sequence. Impaled.

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 05-16-2002, 05:01 PM:

05/16/2002, Regal Cinema World 8, Eugene OR, #3, 10:00AM, scope, SDDS. Attendance about 40. Presentation would get a "nearly flawless" from me except for some SDDS dropouts near the end of reel 1. Most of my technical observations are in the "How's your print look?" thread in Film Handler's Forum.

I was so intent on finding flaws with the image quality that I had a tough time getting into the story until the show was about 2/3 over. I'm going to see it again and pay less attention to technical stuff and more to the story, and my opinion may change at that time.

But for now:

I am not a Star Wars fanatic, and I find some of the endless political dialog to be, well, boring. There must be a better way to tell that part of the story without putting some of us to sleep. I understand they're trying to flesh out those details and give it depth, but damn, I suspect some of it is flat out deadly dull to average viewers.

Likewise the "courting" scenes between Anakin and Amadala. ZZZzzz. Their relationship could maybe be established just as well with less time spent on long, fawning gazes between the two and Sound Of Music-type romps through wildflower-filled meadows.

The dialog is laughably bad sometimes, and there were a couple snickers from the audience (not just me either). But I guess if you view this as a highbrow version of the old Saturday matinee serials, the dialog can kind of work at that level.

The action sequences really do sizzle though. They look and sound great and the detail is amazing.

More action. Less standing around talking politics.

So, based on 1 viewing, I give it a "C" for average moviegoers. I think most people will sense that there's something "special" about this movie, but it won't all come together enough to raise it above the "It was just OK" level. It gets a "B" for Star Wars fanatics, who will like it no matter what and the movie is better than Ep1. And the action scenes get an "A" for everyone. I also give George Lucas and company an "A" for effort, especially for advancing the state of the art of how movies can look and sound, and for bringing "Presentation Quality" to the forefront of discussion, even if not everyone (including me) agrees with everything he says and does. At least we're talking about it.

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 05-17-2002, 06:56 AM:

That's it...pure and simple.

Posted by Brad Haven (Member # 954) on 05-17-2002, 10:30 AM:

john, i hope you didn't have to watch it to work that out?

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 05-17-2002, 04:36 PM:

I've wondered about the rating too. Probably because it's all so stylized. There are a lot of DIsney cartoons that shoulda been rated PG.

Posted by Adam Wilbert (Member # 1184) on 05-17-2002, 05:48 PM:

I wonder what bet Samuel L. Jackson's character had to lose with Yoda in order to get the only hot-pink lightsaber in the Star Wars universe.

Posted by David Baum (Member # 568) on 05-17-2002, 07:05 PM:

saw it on a "not recent" 3DLP (nothing like those PANASONIC 9200 or NEC 6000DC (dark chip) models, with 1000:1 contrast ratio ).

poor blacks, often poor contrast, mirrors structure visible, moiré interaction with the perforations, too big a screen.
some scenes had very poor background details.

I much prefer a smaller screen with latest 3DLP models or just a fresh 2.39 70mm PANAVISION

the movie itself: 10/10 for the best scenes , 5/10 for the others
7.5/10 average . it has much more the STAR WARS spirit than TPM

some antholigical sequences for sure. Ewan plays very good Obiwan.

more comments later maybe

Posted by Paul Linfesty (Member # 214) on 05-17-2002, 10:24 PM:

Actually, 70mm Panavision has an AR of 2.2.

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 05-17-2002, 10:27 PM:

05/17/2002, Cinemark 17, Springfield OR, #16, SR-D. Attendance about 200. Very good presentation except for no deep bass (see the TAP thread for presentation comments).

Does seeing this movie with an appreciative audience and an involved floor staff make it more fun?

We entered the auditorium about 15 mins. before showtime, which was about 2/3 full at that time. There were 3 Cinemark usher-type employees in there selling concessions, and more interestingly, entertaining the crowd. They were asking Star Wars and Spiderman trivia questions (working from prepared materials!) and awarding Spiderman posters to winners. They reserved certain very easy questions for the youngest kids in the audience. They did a good job and the crowd was having fun with it.

The best part: THEY IMPLORED EVERYONE IN THE AUDIENCE TO PLEASE TURN OFF THEIR CELL PHONES!! They did this no fewer than 3 times. They also joked with the audience about "You better go to the bathroom now because some Jedi Knight wannabe might whip out his light saber if you step on his toes in the middle of the show". The crowd seemed to appreciate all this. Right before showtime they announced that the movie was about to start, reminded everyone again about cell phones, and said "Enjoy the show!". There was applause from the crowd.

Another note: This show included some very enthusiastic Star Wars fans. There was some whooping and interaction with the show (but not excessive). There was also some spontaneous applause at the end, and many people hung around during the end credits to talk about the movie. (People were talking about arcane Star Wars plot points, not about how it looked or sounded.)

OK, about the movie.

Within about 5 mins, I had decided that the presentation looked and sounded OK, so I was able to pay more attention to the movie itself. I got into the story and characters this time. Maybe my opinion was influenced by the enthusiastic crowd (probably something to do with The Force and the weak-minded). Or maybe I'm a closet LucasFilm Whore. I don't know. I just enjoyed it a whole lot more this time.

I still cringed at some of the dialog. I noticed more "anomalies" like actors standing out unnaturally from their surroundings. I saw more video-related defects such as noise in dark scenes. But none of this seemed to interfere with my enjoyment of the movie this 2nd time around.

Sue me if you want for saying something good about Lucas and his little space movie. All I can say is maybe more people would go to more movies if they were all as much fun as this show was.

Posted by David Baum (Member # 568) on 05-18-2002, 04:52 AM:

isn't Panavision shot in 2:1 and shown in 2.39:1 in theaters in fact ?

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-18-2002, 07:40 AM:

Today's 35mm anamorphic prints have a 2.39:1 aspect ratio, with a 0.825 x 0.690 inch projectable image area using a 2X anamorphic lens. The camera may use a 2X (horizontal "squeeze")anamorphic lens (Panavision, Hawk, or others), or use a spherical lens with the anamorphic "squeeze" being done with an optical printer or digital intermediate (usually from a "Super 35" negative).

65mm 5-perf origination like Todd-AO or Super Panavision 70 had a 2.20:1 aspect ratio for the 70mm prints. Ultra Panavision 70 used a 1.25X anamorphic lens to give an even wider 2.76:1 aspect ratio, as was used for pictures like "Raintree Country", "Ben Hur", and "Mutiny on the Bounty". 35mm reduction prints usually cropped the 65mm image to fit the 35mm "scope" aspect ratio.

An excellent site that gives first-hand history of the various widescreen formats is Marty Hart's American Widescreen Museum:
http://www.widescreenmuseum.com
http://www.widescreenmuseum.com/widescreen/lobby.htm

Posted by Gracia L. Babbidge (Member # 582) on 05-19-2002, 12:47 AM:

Well, I'll openly admit to being a fan of sci-fi in general; Star Wars in particular.

...Thus, Attack of the Clones would have had to really suck for me to dislike it.
However, I really enjoyed watching this film, and I will certainly see it a few more times (in spite of my general dislike of going back to where I work on my time off). Granted, I thought there were some parts of the movie that could have been better, but oh well, I'm not the person that made the movie.

...As far as crowd / presentation stuff - it was a screening, so it was nowhere near a full auditorium, and was after business hours. I watched this on film, and I do strive to do film right.

Posted by Dave Williams (Member # 299) on 05-19-2002, 07:31 PM:

Before I begin my review, let me point out that YES DAMMIT I SAW ALL THE SAME CRAP YOU ALL SAW TOO!!!!

I saw all the digital artifacts, I saw the horrible lack of acting talent, I saw the incredible lack of direction, the pixels, the fact that the story moved around like General Hospital in Space.

So with that in mind..

The fight scene with Yoda is only comical if you wanted it to be!!! That was the best scene in the picture. Hate it all you want, but watch the numbers build. If you want to call 100 million people, myself included, idiots, then let me do you the favor. We are all blissfully idioticly entranced for two and a half hours and just sat back and had some fun. We all saw the problems, we all did. Even a retarted dog could see the problems. Anyone who thinks they are smarter than the rest of us because they think they are the only ones who saw the problems, get real. Everyone in my circle all complained as much as anyone else about the problems... BUT...

they came to enjoy themselves. Thats it. Sometimes you just have to let go of your critical self and just have some damn fun, which is what this movie was. It was just pure candy fun. No real story, no real plot, no acting worth crap, just fun. You remember rollercoasters right? You wait in line, you scream for a minute, you get off, and you do it again. But you have fun. This film is a rollercoaster plain and simple. I give it a thumb up, with my other one waiting for my second screening.

Dave

Posted by Will Morrow (Member # 792) on 05-19-2002, 07:47 PM:

Hmm Ep2 compaired to a roller coaster...

Coaster has ups and downs...
Hayden's pitch goes up and down, all the times he whines

You have to stay seated in a coaster...
You better stay seated or some Lightsaber toting geek will bop you with his glowing stick of plastic

There is always one great looking view of some hot chics cleavage on a coaster...
Thanks Padme! Love the fire place scene atire

Unfortunatly Ep2 was lacking the one true thing that a great coaster ride has...

It's over in a matter of minutes.

:-)

Posted by Tom Fermanian (Member # 1094) on 05-19-2002, 08:26 PM:

Most comments from paying patrons, (not only SW fans)
Slow until the last 30 Minutes, Yoda gets laughs (from walking with that cane and suddenly becoming "Superman"), Love scenes are hilarious, slow & tedious, moviegoers and I don't think Georgie could have chosen a worst actor than Hayden Christensen PERIOD, Puppets in the older series gave the former more charm, but Digital effects are superior even if picture looks 2 dimensional.Non- Star wars fans not impressed, Star wars aficionados find it a little better than EP 1.

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Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 05-19-2002, 09:03 PM:

On the wooden acting, George was in charge and as director & writer he got the performances he wanted. I don't blame it on the actors. Also, if you think of these slow scenes & wooden dialog as if it was all lifted directly from a comic book, it works a lot better.

I agree with Dave Williams.

Posted by Aldo Baez (Member # 790) on 05-20-2002, 03:31 AM:

You guys are looking for good acting in Star Wars movies, but you're not gonna find it. Skywalker was a whiny, bad acting brat in ep4 (he got better as it went along in my opinion), there was also the bad one liners in the first three as well, and many other things you can find in the first three that people found wrong in this one. For me Star Wars is the story (and effects), the tale of the rise and fall of the Empire, and the tragedies that happened. Anyone could have been Amidala, Anakin, Mace Windu and it wouldn't have mattered because it's about the story.

If you go to various forums they're not talking about the bad acting but who is Sifo-dious (sp?), why did he order the clones, is Sifo Palpatine? What happens to Dooku? Why did he hire Jango to kill Amidala? The story is the thing and I, for one, had a great great time seeing it unfold with 300 other fans and I certainly cannot wait for the next one.

Posted by Greg Mueller (Member # 17) on 05-20-2002, 09:32 AM:

Sounds pretty pathetic that the best part of a multi-million dollar movie should be a "light sabre battle" with a puppet.
Just an observation....

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Greg Mueller
Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut
http://www.muellersatomics.com/

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 05-20-2002, 09:58 AM:

Harrison Ford has been quoted as saying something like "I remember thinking at the time that some of my dialog in [the original] Star Wars was embarrasingly bad".

Posted by David Baum (Member # 568) on 05-20-2002, 04:53 PM:

lol! stil many people who don't get it that Sidious=Palpatin senator=Emperor Palpatine

SPOILERS!!!!!!!

he arranged EVERYTHING (up to the sandmen kidnapping Anakin's mother), up to gathering most of the jedis so a maximum would get killed.

I found McGregor to REALLY be Obiwan and his police enquiry was very interesting. Awesome sequence with Junga Fett ( and Junga's asking Bobba to close that door was really "impressive" ). watch for Bobba in EP III.
I still wonder why Bobba has so much anger against Han Solo btw: can't be just for the bounty offered...

Yoda arriving with the clone troopers is awesome,so is the battle: this is WAY above TPM !

Zam the assassin scene also very impressive. I like the shot where she's standing by the commercial and sees Obiwan arriving. cool.

far from perfect movie but very enjoyable.I do hope EP III will bring us back to the "feel" and "look" of the trilogy (4-6)...

Posted by Chad Souder (Member # 343) on 05-23-2002, 08:05 AM:

David - I heard somewhere that Harrison Ford changed a lot of his dialog as he went along, to make his character speak normal, which is why he came off as the most likable character in the series.

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"Asleep at the switch? I wasn't asleep, I was drunk!" - Homer Simpson

Posted by Mark Ogden (Member # 43) on 05-23-2002, 08:18 AM:

Actually, during the production of the original Star Wars, Harrison Ford supposedly told Lucas: "you know, George, you can type this shit, but you sure can't say it!"

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-23-2002, 08:41 AM:

That filmed interview quote from Harrison Ford was included in the A&E (Arts and Entertainment Network) 2-hour biography of George Lucas that aired on Monday, May 20, during their "Star Wars Week" promotion.

9:00PM - 11:00PM Biography May 20
George Lucas: Creating an Empire
A 2-hour portrait of the genius who created some of the cinema's greatest treasures, including "American Graffiti" and the "Star Wars" series. Lucas's dream of becoming a race car driver ended with an accident, but he went on to build a film empire that includes Industrial Light and Magic, the top special-effects company in the world. Features interviews with Stephen Spielberg, Francis Ford Coppola, Harrison Ford, Ron Howard, and Liam Neeson.
TV G

Harrison Ford's bio airs today:
http://www.aande.com/tv/shows/biography.html

Biography
Thursday , May 23 8:00 PM-9:00 PM
Harrison Ford: The Reluctant Hero
The life and career of the carpenter who became one of the top box-office stars in Hollywood history. Includes rare behind-the-scenes footage and exciting film clips from Ford's greatest movies including "American Graffiti", "Star Wars", and "Raiders of the Lost Ark". TV G

Posted by Brad Haven (Member # 954) on 05-24-2002, 07:43 AM:

Well... it's better than i expected!.
A great film?... far from it!.
It was an entertaining action/adventure film.
I will say, that if he wants to shoot/make in digital, just go the whole hog and shoot/make the next completly digital and do away with the live action scenes and turn it into the animated film that he clearly wanted in this episode, it felt that the live action scences really held the film back, those scenes stuck out like a sore thumb!.
God... natalie portmans a real spunk rat!, she deserves better roles than this, hayden c should work on a soap and ewan g should go back to the smaller interesting roles.
It was great playing spot the aussie, which i found to be the most interesting part of the first half.
If i had to give it a rating , it would be 6/10, certainly better than his last effort!

Posted by Adam Wilbert (Member # 1184) on 05-24-2002, 04:39 PM:

Brad, its funny that you should say that. I was watching Final Fantasy again the other night and couldn't help drawing parallels between it and AOTC. I felt that the characters, as bizzare as they were to watch, better fit the picture in FF. Maybe because the CG characters interacting with a CG environment play by the same rules (mass, gravity, etc.) where as when producing composite, live action & CG shots, the artists have to "fake" it a bit.

Posted by Betsie Beadling (Member # 591) on 05-24-2002, 08:16 PM:

Great Movie.
I didnt Notice any Grainy!!!
or are my eyes not good Enough??
Best Battle Scene Ever!!!
Yoda Kickin Count Dokus Butt.

Dexter Jettster is my Favorite Alien

Posted by Jerry Chase (Member # 660) on 05-30-2002, 11:16 PM:

No joke, my wife went to sleep three times during the film, and I was nodding a bit myself.
-spoilers ahead-

<serious rant mode on> I had anticipated some bad dialog, but the script was so wooden at times I kept wondering if I was seeing the dialog and acting from "Thunderbirds Are Go."

By the end of the movie, I was half of the opinion that GL had hired people to provide him with all the cliches and overworked lines that they could think of, for inclusion in the movie. Would somebody stop and count 'em sometime? This has to be a record in any one movie.

My biggest beef though is the implausibility of the physics. The original "Star Wars" was a milestone because it was the first film to bring golden age style science fiction to the big screen and have it seem as though it could be real. Sure there were some stretches of "reality" in that film, but overall it was possible to not only suspend disbelief but not be totally jarred out of the reverie of the environment by an inapproprate stunt or effect.

Somewhere along the way, Lucas minimized the idea of consistant physics so that his characters could play and fight with fantastic toys. In this film he totally loses it. The fantastic stunts (and I don't mean fantastic in a good way) and the CGI turned this one into a comic book. I'll provide and example that is probably better suited to Miss Piggy and Kermit D. Frog than a serious movie character: Miss Always A Great Hair Day falls from a helicopter substitute onto a sand dune, rolls for a while, comes to a stop and appears almost dead from her fall, whereupon a soldier races up to her with "Are you all right?" She then immediately and totally revives, doesn't even bother to dust herself off and continues on into the battle. Right. Meanwhile her boyfriend is in the copter whining "Take me back to her" to his teacher, who has suddenly decided (after repeated instructions to the boy to "protect the senator at all costs") that maybe the senator isn't so important, let's leave the bitch in the sandbox and move on. How quaint. No wonder the Jedi students have screwed up priorities.

But wait, there's more! The leaps shown in this film while the characters hold onto a thin cord would make any flesh and blood character slice their hands in half on the cord, unless the cord had enough give, which the cords in this film obviously don't. (No budget for bungee cord?) No matter, the chains in this universe are nearly massless as well, and break only where the break will do the most good. Ahh, alien physics.

Speaking of physics, ever since Superman rescued Lois Lane by catching her mid-fall, film-makers have been envious. Lucas does his homage to this scene as well. He puts a couple similar stunts together back to back in this movie, just in case someone misses it the first time. However, it doesn't take Evans math genius to figure out the math of the word *splatt* when catching an air car by falling onto the hood or trunk from a great height.

Technically, the cityscapes were another problem for me. They just looked flat and unrealistic. Dust and moisture in the air causes things close up to appear clear and in full color, while things receding into the distance get progressively more washed out and bluish. The cityscapes in this movie were just too uniform in a L.A. washed-out hazy but clear look. Like the plot, they had no depth.

I could rant on for hours, but I'll stop with the observation that all those big choreographed asteroids never seem to bump into each other, and even though all are moving in different directions relative to each other, none have been pulverized into tiny stones or dust specks. This effect worked in the original SW because we weren't expecting it and the scene was fairly short. In this episode the scene continued long enough that I half expected to see an end credit to Busby Berkely.

Yeah, I know, "Its only a movie." That is precisely why it is so disappointing.

Posted by Evans A Criswell (Member # 381) on 05-31-2002, 10:28 AM:

quote:
Speaking of physics, ever since Superman rescued Lois Lane by catching her mid-fall, film-makers have been envious. Lucas does his homage to this scene as well. He puts a couple similar stunts together back to back in this movie, just in case someone misses it the first time. However, it doesn't take Evans math genius to figure out the math of the word *splatt* when catching an air car by falling onto the hood or trunk from a great height.

*ROTFLMAO*

Jerry, I think movie physics is getting almost as bad as cartoon physics. Your observations about the asteroids are right on. I'll bet they used a mathematical model where particles move around in all sorts of directions but avoid collisions with each other, and placed an asteroid at each "particle". Next time I see the movie, I'll have to check to see if any of the asteroids move in curved paths. Or maybe they generated a bunch of vectors in 3D that didn't collide with each other and used those for the asteroids motion. It's fun to think about.

Speaking of movie and cartoon physics, y'all might enjoy this. It's a compilation of cartoon physics laws. I got many of them from other sources, and then wrote a bunchof them on my own at the end.

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Evans A Criswell
Huntsville-Decatur Movie Theatre Information Site

Posted by Jerry Chase (Member # 660) on 06-01-2002, 10:56 PM:

I had some fun tonight watching the original. Doing so, it becomes fairly obvious where the plot of the next film has to go. Lucas did leave himself enough wiggle room in the original trilogy to almost pull it off. I won't spoil it by spelling it out.

Watching the original, I think I have a new favorite line. On the desert of Luke's homeworld, the stormtroopers are trying to find what happened to the missing battle station plans after R2 and C3PO have landed. One of them holds up a circular bit of metal, and exclaims in glee the same way the crocodile hunter would if he had found scat from an animal "Look sir, DROIDS!" This was the first time I'd made the connection that he was referring to it as C3PO poop.

I highly recommend the phrase be used whenever a tech finds a worn or discarded washer lying on the floor.

Posted by Charles Everett (Member # 889) on 06-08-2002, 10:02 AM:

Since the Star Wars series has a "Saturday matinee" feel I saw Episode 2 on a Saturday matinee (Reading Cinemas, Manville NJ, 6/1, 4:15 show).

I almost fell asleep in the first half (thanks, Jerry). When the action began to pick up in the 2nd half that woke me up. Granted, Episode 2 is better than Episode 1 but I couldn't help thinking how Episode 2 rips off story hints from other movies. I even found a taste of Bulworth early on!

The one good thing about this Saturday matinee is that it brought a mostly family/adult audience: 50 or so in a giant-size hall that seats 300+. All the geeks in my area saw Episode 2 on the opening midnight show or the 1st weekend.

Posted by Dave Williams (Member # 299) on 06-08-2002, 10:25 AM:

You say ripped off story hints from other movies as if that were a bad thing? Do you have any idea how many movies we would have in our library of movies if no movie ever ripped off any other movie?

THREE!!!

That would get really freekin boring after a while.

Yes movies do have to BORROW story hints, plot points, and even, oh my, even yes even even even have to borrow... could it be.... WORDS... that have been used in other movies. It's going to happen. Get used to it.

There are few original ideas any more that can be done. A few come up, and then they get borrowed from, as is expected. Otherwise we have no movies to watch. Can you imagine if we complained about books the same way? We would have just a dictionary, but no thesaurus, because those words are already used and just a rip off from the dictionary.

Dave

Posted by Adam Wilbert (Member # 1184) on 06-08-2002, 10:32 PM:

Dave said: "THREE!!!"

Lets see: "Train Enters Station," "Voyage to the Moon", and... um "Memento"?

Its odd that you were so specific, Dave. I'd like to hear which three you were thinking of!

Posted by Dave Williams (Member # 299) on 06-09-2002, 01:07 AM:

Actually I cannot remember the specific three, but they all came out long before 1940.

However, those aside, I would have to say... Usual Suspects, Memento, and Run Lola Run.

Dave

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 09-10-2002, 04:59 AM:

Brad,

I am sorry for starting a new thread when there was already an existing one. I am also sorry for the comments in the heading when I should have only indicated the movie's title. It will never happen again.

As most of you know, the DVD for this movie will be released in November and if you are unterested, go here for the very first review ----

http://www.lightsoutentertainment.com

-Claude

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 09-10-2002, 05:23 AM:

...and to think, people were whining because at one point I came up with the idea (long before TES stole it) of posting ID frames of movies to help assist theaters in putting together used prints, or straightening out a print that was built out-of-sequence. It seems that every week I see more and more very high quality "screenshots" like this pop up. My ID frames weren't even of high enough quality to matter, and what memorable frame is at the head and tail of a reel anyway?

Someone call Valenti. I demand he puts these evil copyright infringers that will surely make the studios lose billions behind bars.

Posted by Aaron Haney (Member # 747) on 09-10-2002, 09:28 PM:

The screenshots on that web page are too small to tell, but I wouldn't be surprised if they ruined the image quality of the Region 1 DVD by using too much edge enhancement just like they did with Episode I.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 09-10-2002, 09:57 PM:

When you don't have real image detail, pump up the edge enhancement!

It makes pictures APPEAR to be sharp (if you view them from far enough away). Just don't sit too close.

The Sony HDCAM camera uses 1920 x 1080 pixel CCDs (for a 16:9 aspect ratio), but AFAIK, over half of that limited resolution is lost with the necessary Nyquist anti-alias filtration, and even more with the luminance and chromiance compression of the HDCAM (D11) recording format. Shooting 2.39:1 looses even more vertical resolution by cropping pixels.

Compare HDCAM and 35mm Film
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