Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: ALIEN: the directors cut

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Posted by Dave Williams (Member # 299) on 11-01-2003, 07:20 AM:

Depending on who you talk to, this movie either blows or is great. And that is coming from people who are old enough to remember this movie!

I saw this last night, decent presentation, but 20 minutes of pre show (cinemark).

There were only about 15 people in the audience, surprising that people do not come to this show.

This is the first time I caught this on the big screen. I wasn't old enough the first time around. The chest burster scene is surprisingly effective when it is 400 times larger than my tv screen is.

I was in heaven. I loved the changes, but didn't like the crap code that kept popping up. Why put it on this movie? It will be on DVD in a month, who cares anyway? STOP WITH THE CODE!!!

So yeah, I loved it on the giant screen. Worth the time involved.

Dave

Posted by Pravin Ratnam (Member # 1417) on 11-01-2003, 11:46 AM:

I haven't seen the director's cut. I might rent the DVD. But one of the worst things about the VHS age is great movies cut down to size and unappreciated by people who missed them in the theater. Also sequels tend to dilute the power of the original in several movie franchises. Can you watch Matrix 1 and Morpheus's ramblings with a straight face anymore after you have seen Reloaded? Or for those who caught Nightmare On Elm Street on video after Freddy became a standup comic. Lethal Weapon no longer has the same intensity for me after watching the terrible 3 and half terrible half good 4. At least with DVDs, the sound and picture quality is better on the big tv screens.

As far as Alien, the only reason why Aliens is a lot more popular with the younger kids is that it is primarily an action movie that doesnt get as dated as Alien 1 that derived most of its horror from the audience not knowing what to expect. It doesn't help that many movies since the early 80s have ripped off the original Alien design and let's not even mention the inferior sequels starting with Alien 3 that really reduced the awe factor for this creature.

I watched the original Alien in 70MM blowup around the age of 11 and it was one of the best movie experiences I ever had. It is hard to explain how immensely gripping this movie was for those who have seen this movie later on VHS. Not only did we have a bigger picture, but the sense of suspense of what part of the creature was going to be revealed next, was the best part. Also it wasn't common back then for female action stars. The movie might appear slow now because we already know everything about the creature.

Anyway, if you haven't seen this in a theater, I would say it's worth a viewing.

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 11-01-2003, 12:18 PM:

I saw the original "Alien" in 70mm 6-track Dolby, at the Edwards Big Newport. What a memorable moviegoing experience.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 11-01-2003, 09:08 PM:

I saw a perfect presentation of a 70mm print in Rochester at the Loews Pittsford 3 theatre. Seeing it on video can never compare!

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-02-2003, 12:57 AM:

Well I just ran the "Directors Cut" and the transfer SUCKED! I actually got complaints about the lateral jitter. Same jitter on either projector and the previews didn't have it so it is in the print...particularly reel-1...since much of this film is hand-held camera work, they could have gotten away with it but the titles need to stay put!

Our attendance would have doubled if they had issued it in 70mm (and the jitter wouldn't have been there).

Steve

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-02-2003, 12:35 PM:

Haven't seen it, donno if I will. Saw it in 70mm at the Woodfield Theatre back when it was first released. Personally, I would rather remember that experience over a new 35mm version, especially if the prints are crap. And on top of that there is that awful crapcode to endure.

Dave.....SHAME SHAME on you for even setting foot in a Sin-a-mark [thumbsdown]

location. SLC has many finer places to see a film that that. You deserved the 20 min. of crap you got before the show!

Does anyone know what lab made the prints? I remember the 70mm as being absolutely flawless and only one other film "pulled me in" like Alien did and that was L.O.A.

Mark

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 11-03-2003, 07:51 AM:

Deluxe did the 70MM's prints. Your right Mark those prints looked great.

I saw "Alien" in 70MM on the curved screen at the Egyptian Theatre in Hollywood. During the first few days at that theatre they had some of the large props in the forcourt of the theatre. They removed them after someone set one of them on fire. Back in the early 80's , we ran a double feature of "Alien" and "Close Encounters...." both in 70MM at the Picwood Theatre. And a decade later ran "Alien" again in 70MM at the Odeon Theatre in Westwood, CA.

Posted by Dave Williams (Member # 299) on 11-03-2003, 01:18 PM:

I didn't have a choice on the location. It was the only one that was close to my daughters house and I needed to pick her up immediately after the show. Yes I deserve the 20 minutes.. never again.. I like Larry Millers megaplexes myself.

Dave

Posted by Michael Coate (Member # 757) on 11-03-2003, 01:54 PM:

Dave Williams wrote:

quote:
There were only about 15 people in the audience, surprising that people do not come to this show.

Hmmm. Could this be a "Salt Lake City/Mormon church/R-rated film" thing? Sounds like 1979 all over again.

Alien had what 20th Century-Fox considered a smash opening in its original run, though according to some press the company was disappointed with grosses in Salt Lake City.

"Invasion Of A Box-Office Smash," Los Angeles Times, May 30, 1979:

For the first four days of release at 91 theatres, "Alien" grossed $3,522,581. That averages out to $38,709 per theater -- for four days, which is phenomenal.

[By the end of the opening weekend, Fox] said the film had set more than 145 different individual box-office records, including best gross ever for a theater, best weekend, and best Friday night.

There are other ways to spot a hit film besides arithmetic. Outside the Egyptian Theater at 8 p.m. Monday the line twisted around Hollywood Blvd. more than 200-people deep, with some waiting to buy tickets for the 10:30 p.m. show.

It was the same everywhere around the country, from Kansas City, Phoenix and Peoria to Dallas, Detroit and Louisville. There appears to be only two soft spots: Chicago, where the film was playing at seven theatres, and Salt Lake City.

Ashley Boone, senior vice president for domestic marketing at Fox, explained the somewhat disappointing grosses from Chicago as part of the city's paralysis following the tragic air crash [days earlier]. As for Salt Lake City, the Mormon church, which Boone said holds great sway over the way people spend their entertainment dollars, had not yet made a statement on the film.

But then, this could be nothing more than nationwide movie theatre attendance dropping off due to Halloween falling on a weekend.

*****

I saw the "Director's Cut" re-release version this weekend. I was disappointed, like many of you have expressed, that it wasn't presented in 70mm as it was back in its original release. I enjoyed seeing the movie in a theatre with an audience again nonetheless.

I can't resist not chiming in on some of these 70mm remarks. [Smile]

Pravin Ratnam wrote:

quote:
I watched the original Alien in 70MM blowup around the age of 11 and it was one of the best movie experiences I ever had.

David Stambaugh wrote:

quote:
I saw the original "Alien" in 70mm 6-track Dolby, at the Edwards Big Newport. What a memorable moviegoing experience.

John Pytlak wrote:

quote:
I saw a perfect presentation of a 70mm print in Rochester. Seeing it on video can never compare.

Steve Guttag wrote:

quote:
Our attendance would have doubled if they had issued it in 70mm.

Mark Gulbrandsen wrote:

quote:
Saw it in 70mm at the Woodfield Theatre

Bill Gabel wrote:

quote:
I saw "Alien" in 70MM on the curved screen at the Egyptian Theatre in Hollywood.

To add to this nostalgic thread, I'd like to mention a link to a list I put together of the original 70mm engagements of Alien. It's a work-in-progress; about 90 percent of the first-wave 70mm engagements are accounted for. Enjoy the flashback!

http://www.in70mm.com/news/2003/70mm_release/alien_openings.htm

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 11-03-2003, 03:16 PM:

The "Pittsford Triplex" you mentioned is the same as the "Loews Pittsford 3" I mentioned in my posting. Theatre Manager Jim Doty and Chief Projectionist Paul Hartman, made that theatre "The Place" to see the 70mm releases of the 70's and 80's in Rochester. It was a large stand-alone auditorium equipped with a Century Model JJ projector, and a Christie platter. Unfortunately, the theatre is now a furniture store, and the Loews Pittsford 1 and 2 (a sad story of a badly botched twinning [thumbsdown]

), that shared the parking lot, is now a women's health spa. [Frown]

Posted by Mark Lensenmayer (Member # 134) on 11-03-2003, 05:27 PM:

I also saw ALIEN in its 70mm glory at the magnificent Dayton Mall I (I believe the operator there was John Harvey) and Cinema East in Columbus.

Scariest thing I've ever seen in a theater. What made it so scary in the beginning is that we had no idea of what the creature looked like or what powers it might have. Can it take other shapes? How does it kill? Why does it kill?

Mr. Coate and I disagree on this, but it is my opinion that it was ALIEN that truly started the golden age of 70mm, not STAR WARS. I base this on the fact that Alien had 70mm prints in smaller cities that were accessible by people who did not happen to live in the giant cities.

I've taken Mike's ALIEN list and tracked down the 70mm theatres, and, unfortunately, most are long gone.

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 11-03-2003, 05:51 PM:

You guys are nailing all the reasons why Alien in 70mm was a big deal. The film's subject matter was original, and told in such a creepily effective way. Seeing it in 70mm on an 80-foot screen with great mag sound, and with 1200 other first-time viewers, is just one of those film experiences not to be forgotten. [Cool]

Posted by Edwin Graf Diemer (Member # 545) on 11-03-2003, 08:50 PM:

You are so right-I saw "Alien" in 70mm at the Eric Tri-State Mall Theater in Claymont, Delaware. Amazing experience. It was a 920-seat house, and that was after twinning. It was originally at least 1,500 seats before being twinned in 1977, not long after "Star Wars" opened.
As for the re-issue, I caught it 11/1 at the UA King of Prussa IMAX theater, and the presentation was the real horror. Picture jumped all over the place, and gate pressure was set so high the whole picture popped out of focus every time there was a splice. Anamorphics were completely out of alignment as well. I told the manager, who agreed completely with me, and he said that they threw an ancient 35mm projector in the booth for standard presentations and that they have received many complaints about it. Real shame-they had several hundred people there for this 10:10 showing.

Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 11-04-2003, 02:18 PM:

I saw the director's cut on the IMAX screen at the Lincolnshire 20 in Lincolnshire, IL.

The print was in good shape, none of the lateral jittering that was experienced by others, but you could tell that this was a 35mm film being projected past its limits.

The picture was quite grainy, but that could have been just the age of the movie. Sound was good, especially for a 1979 movie. Projector noise was horrifically loud, however.

Overall, I think it was better to have seen it this way than to have seen it at one of the local multiplexes on a 26-ft screen.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 11-04-2003, 03:46 PM:

quote:
Projector noise was horrifically loud, however.

IMAX theatres are usually pretty good about proper design to minimize sound transmission from the projection room into the auditorium. But the relatively large ports are an issue.

Posted by Dave Williams (Member # 299) on 11-04-2003, 04:47 PM:

First, the reason that the auditorium was not full had nothing to do with it bieng in Salt Lake City. The local church no longer counsels against R rated films nor speaks out on certain films, instead counsels against any film that may cause uncertain feelings in your heart.

R rated films play fairly well here. I often find full crowds at them. The problem with alien not doing well here is probably because in Utah most people are truly cheap. If it is out on video (it is in its original form), then they don't care how big a screen it is on.

Also, to the grainy issue. Remember that this was done in the golden age of actually FILMING fx shots, not creating them in a computer. The original shots were done in 35 mm, then transferred to another print, then transferred some more, etc. They did not clean up these shots from the original fx shot negs, just the assembled shots after all the transfers.

Dave

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-04-2003, 07:04 PM:

Dave,
Actually most, if not all of, the effects shots in Alien were done in VistaVision and or in 65mm to eliminate the build up of grain from the FX shot. Both these formats offer a picture area twice to three times that of a full 35mm frame and the effects shots that go though the usual three to six generations usually end up matching the master shot almost exactly if the D.P. and Effects directors are worth their spit. The graininess is due to early Eastman High Speed film stocks that were used to shoot many of those scenes. There was a pretty good article I think in American cinematographer on how it was filmed. Having seen several of the 70mm prints of Alien I can definately vow that the effects shots were absolutley seamless.

As to Utahn's being cheap... I definately disagree! I surely see more high end cars and dealers.....aka Mercedes, Lamborghini, Masaratti, etc. than I ever saw in the Midwest area. Also at least certain theatre owners spend a ton of money on building sites, adding on, upgading, etc. Far more than I ever saw happen back in the Midwest.

In reality the reason Alien would never do good here is because the rating of the film doesn't fit into the religeous well being of almost half of the population out here. Showmen in this area would make a killing on something like "Sound Of Music"(aka"Sound Of Money"). The sing along version actually did really well out here. Oh boy!.....Watch out for the Sing Along "Wizard Of Oz" comming to Utah in Februray.

Mark @ CLACO

Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 11-05-2003, 10:15 AM:

I saw Alien presented in 70mm at the Continental Theatre in Denver when it opened.

I just saw the new print and it is just like Steve Guttag said, it had excessive lateral jitter. The sound was thin. I remember the throbs and groans of the ship in the original 6-track magnetic soundtrack. This was quite simply a very bad printing.

The story is still very good, but the technology suffers. I thought the dot matrix computer displays and hand held devices totally placed the film in the 1980s.

In this case video would have been preferable to film. But I know they can do much, much better.

Posted by Michael Coate (Member # 757) on 11-05-2003, 02:06 PM:

Ian Price wrote:

quote:
I saw Alien presented in 70mm at the Continental Theatre in Denver when it opened.

Hmmm. In the 70mm engagement list mentioned earlier in the thread the Denver engagement is listed as having been at the Cooper.

quote:
I just saw the new print and it is just like Steve Guttag said, it had excessive lateral jitter. This was quite simply a very bad printing. In this case video would have been preferable to film.

I was pleased with the Digital Cinema presentation that I saw (Edwards Spectrum Stadium 21 & Imax, Irvine, CA). While this DLP showing wasn't perfect, I noticed none of the annoyances that are being mentioned in this thread.

Posted by Dave Williams (Member # 299) on 11-05-2003, 09:32 PM:

My mistake on the film stock on the alien fx shots. they really should have gone back to the original negs to and use the computers of today to recomposite them together, and clean them up a little better.

As for utahns bieng cheap. I will still stand by that statement. The majority of them really are cheap. Yes we have plenty of those here that are not cheap, and thank goodness they spend thier money around, otherwise the only places we would have here are walmarts and shopko's!

I still disagree on the rating issue. the new matrix film is R and does gangbuster business, so did one hour photo, final destination, other r rated films as well. It is the age of the film and the fact that todays film goers just don't figure on how wonderful a big screen presentation can be, regardless of if you can get it on dvd or not.

I ALWAYS attend rescreenings of films past. the big screen is always worth it.

Dave

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-16-2003, 11:52 PM:

Ian said" I thought the dot matrix computer displays and hand held devices totally placed the film in the 80's"
_________________________________________________________________

So what do we have today? Much high end test gear that still uses red, or green segmented LED displays that are dot matrix look alikes...not everything uses LCD displays and for very good reasons. Aren't we still going for hand held devices...Palm Pilots, etc?? I just don't see how these things date it back to the 80's. I always felt the film stood the test of time pretty darn well.
Mark

Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 01-12-2016, 12:44 AM:

It has been 4409 days since the last post.

Posted by Jerry Axelsson (Member # 3175) on 01-12-2016, 12:44 AM:

Steve Guttag and others said: Regarding the 35mm ALIEN: DIR CUT.
"I just saw the new print and it is just like Steve Guttag said, it had excessive lateral jitter. This was quite simply a very bad printing."

I ran reel 1 of a well preserved original 35mm archival print of ALIEN-1979 as a direct comparison to the 35mm DIR CUT print. This was done recently.
I would say that the original version also has an amount of lateral jitter. Perhaps somewhat less than the DIR CUT.

Question which prints did not have lateral jitter? Only 70mm perhaps?

(Note the original 35mm ALIEN print in this case is marked: "THE ALIEN" on the leaders and was a Mono print)

Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 01-12-2016, 07:57 AM:

Alien had both mono and Dolby A stereo prints in it's original release, as did many films back in the early days of Dolby Stereo.