Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Ticketing and concession systems

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Posted by Lance C. McFetridge (Member # 95) on 06-18-2000, 08:44 PM:

I own a three screen first run and use the old reliable automaticket machines. While manual ticket logs are affordable with this size operation, The desire to find a reasonably priced point of sale system is there. What are others using and what are the pro's and con's? And the price?
Thanks Brad, this is a forum that a lot of us needed!!!
lance

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-18-2000, 10:38 PM:

We sell the Sensible Cinema Ticketing system and have had great luck with it. It's a DOS based program(soon to be available in Windows version too) and is very stable and can even be run on a 386 PC. Its extremely versitle and inexpensive as compared to other megabuck ticketing systems. It also does all your paperwork for you, is easy to set up initally at the start of a new week. This is an ideal system for say up to 8 to 10 screens and not more than 4 terminals. I reccomend 2 terminals and a managers computer for the program to reside in and to do your reporting from. We run it in Win 98 DOS Prompt with out any problems. Win 98 is easy to network and also relatively stable and can be made to boot up in a hurry(22 sec or less). I do however reccomend APU's at each computer to avoid data loss in case of a line blip or outage!! Small APU's are fine and will allow you to close out before they run out of juice. If you are interested I can put you in touch with several customers that have bought them. Just contact me at the e-mail below.
Regards,
Mark
mark@getgts.com

Posted by Scott D. Neff (Member # 185) on 06-19-2000, 01:15 AM:

We use Tim Harvey Ticketing from Theatre Support Services out of Florida. The programmer Jerry Chase is very helpful and has done a world of good for us here at Cinema West.

Everything is VERY simple and easy to figure out. It'll run on a 486 -- and it's SOOO simple to close... just enter your figures and hit "G" and away it prints --- all your necessary reports. Makes training managers a snap.

check it out - www.theatresupport.com

Or e-mail me if you have questions.

ops@cinema-west.com

Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 06-19-2000, 01:56 AM:

We here at Carmike use the IQ-0 system. It's called IQ-0 becuase you don't need an IQ higher than that to operate. Good thing, considering this is Carmike

. Anyhow, it made by Logical Solutions Inc out of Georgia. The messageing aspect of the system (for sending messages to other theatres, offices, etc) is kind of klunkly, but the rest is easy to use. I don't know if LSI sells these exclusively to Carmike or not.

Posted by Brian Grojean (Member # 500) on 06-19-2000, 06:25 PM:

I work at AMC Cantera 30, and we recently ugraded from the TIMS/CATS system, to the Radiant System. At first, Radiant had A LOT of bugs, but this was basically Radiants first shot at a faster theatre set up. Right now Inventory and Cash Handling is a breeze and box office transactions average around 10 seconds to 20 seconds. The only problem that is still buggin us is the VISANET, It doesn't crash during high usage but for som odd reason it crashes at the slowest times. It's only done it twice in the past six monthes. Radiant is worth it. It's pretty expensive, but your theatres will run much faster and your lines will stay short. Oh yeah... the average concession sales transaction time.... 35 seconds to 50 seconds... They are that quick! I love em'.

Posted by Russ Kress (Member # 461) on 06-25-2000, 12:26 AM:

A few of our smaller theatres are using Tim Harvey, but I haven't really seen them yet.

I use Theatron at my location, and a few Y-2k issues not withstanding, it seems to work pretty well. Almost all of our problems have been hardware related. The Y-2k stuff is fixed.

The tickets are thermally printed (ink being one less thing that the cashier can run out of) and the printers are fast.

Just try not to use colored ticket stock as it can eventually gum up the Boca Mini-Ghost printers for some reason.

Reports are easy to teach. You basically answer the questions on shut down. Weekly boxoffice reports are automatic (provided the film opened on a Friday, but the manual Wednesdays aren't that bad).

Give my boss (Greg Pauley) a couple of weeks to try the Tim Harvey system and he will be able to tell you about it.

Anyone still using the original Pacer systems? Talk about needing a PHD!!

Russ

Posted by Greg Pauley (Member # 503) on 06-25-2000, 09:10 AM:

Lance:

Starting the 3rd day of using Tim Harvey Ticketing system at a four-plex. So far the software has worked properly. I had a older 486 computer lying around that we installed the software on and had to purchase a printer for the test. You really can't go wrong with this system because the company will allow you to try the software for 90 days free. You can use a thermal printer which is expensive or use a dot matrix printer. I was a little skeptical about using a dot matrix printer and tractor feed tickets, but the special tickets (skinny elephant) work fine. I would not install this system into a major multiplex, but is a great option for a 2,4 or six plex that can't afford a $30,000 computer system. I don't want to tell you what I was quoted for the software, but it sound like you are in a smaller market like we are and if you have an older computer lying around you can get the box office software and printer for under 1500.00.

Posted by Ky Boyd (Member # 23) on 06-25-2000, 03:46 PM:

We use Sensible Cinema in our 5 plex in Santa Rosa. It's great - very fast and easy for the staff to use. We are a cash only operation, so we don't have to worry about credit cards and all that.

For small exhibitors looking into ticketing and concession systems there are essentially three small systems our there - each developed by an indie theatre owner with years of experience. They are Sensible Cinema, Ready Theatre Systems and Tim Harvey Ticketing. There is an excellent discussion of all three systems on Jeff Knoll's Motion Picture Exhibitor Forum www.delphi.com/exhibitor/start

This topic has been discussed in great detail on that forum and I would recommend it as a resource for anyone with interest in ticketing systems.

Of course if money is no object than there are tons of systems, but that's another story.

Posted by Scott D. Neff (Member # 185) on 06-25-2000, 10:50 PM:

We have 10 theatres in our company.

5 with TIM HARVEY
1 with THEATRON
4 with PACER!!!

Acck -- thank GOD I haven't had to train new managers on Pacer in a LONG LONG time!

------------------
Scott D. Neff
----------------
www.cinema-west.com

Posted by Greg Borr (Member # 386) on 07-11-2000, 08:38 AM:

Ready Theatre Systems offers an economically priced Windows based software program for theatres. Includes Box Office, Concessions, Inventory, Time Clock, Graphical Show Scheduler, and more.

You can visit us on the web @ www.rts-solutions.com

Posted by Franklin Armstrong (Member # 1448) on 01-25-2003, 03:14 AM:

I have PACER at my theater the only problem i have is the staff not being smart ... they turn the switch off on the keyboard

Posted by Don Bruechert (Member # 1538) on 01-25-2003, 11:54 AM:

We use Omni-Term and it works OK, but there are a few things about it that suck. Being sort of a programmer myself, I can see that this product was likely developed by at least 2 teams that didn't communicate well. The box office is a breeze to run, as are the film scheduling features. Concession sales aren't bad either. The thing that sucks is at the end of the night the manager has to do the usual variety of things such as cash drawer lifts, entering in final inventory, etc, and they have decided to use several different "GO" keys in the process. When entering in your final inventory counts you just cruise through the list of items with the page down key, enter the new count and hit enter. But if you go to enter in damaged items, restocks, shipments, etc you need to press enter and then press F7 to complete each item. I have had people, including myself, enter a whole shipment and not have it show up in inventory because I forgot to press F7 after each item. The other annoying aspect is that once you close your day, say oh shit I forgot something, and want to fix it there is NO way to go in there and fix it. I'm not talking about security procedures to keep unscrupulous managers from messing with the books, I'm taking not even God can go in there and change something once you close the day... then we end up hand writing the missing information onto the reports, which is very aggrevating. I do think ther terminals and box office POS system are very nice to use thoug.

Posted by Steve Anderson (Member # 364) on 01-25-2003, 01:37 PM:

We have RTS ( Ready Theater Systems ) in our little theater and it has proven to be perfect for what we do. I like the fact you can sell tickets and concession from the same station.

Posted by Buck Kolkmeyer (Member # 1128) on 01-26-2003, 11:22 AM:

The first thing we do when we take over a theatre is remove whatever ticketing system is there and install RTS. We currently use RTS it it 16 locations from a single screen drive-in to an 11-plex. Rob and Greg are very responsive to our needs. They are computer people that know the theatre business and its idiosyncracies.

When we decided to use RTS in the drive-in, they designed a report that showed cars (transactions) and car averages (people per car). Its like having your own in-house programmers that actually understand what you are talking about. Next year we are installing a wireless remote so that our box office will communicate with our concession stand.

This is an affordable, reliable system. I don't see why anybody is still using machine tickets when this system gives you all the ticketing flexibility you will ever need and concession inventory to boot.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-26-2003, 11:32 AM:

Buck,
RTS is now ancient junk. Try the new Sensible Cinema Ticketing and Concession system for windows. It pretty much blows the pants off everything else out there. It runs in XP, or 2000 in true 32 bit, hence never bogs down.....with as many terminals as you want to run. It'll interface directly with large LED displays, and includes all the usual thermal printer drivers, and pole display options you could ever use.
I did a huge system in Aspen,CO. and its been great. That customer just installed another system in Whistler, BC. It does concessions and ticketing and all the normal paperwork. As a big plus it interfaces directly with VISA to do a CC transaction in less than 12 seconds. Don't know another system that can do that. Sorry Brian, this system runs rings around Radiant!
We have a number of other systems going in soon. The cost is also far less!! That should interest you alot!
Ky, Are you using the older DOS version of Sensible Cinema, or the new Windows version? The new windows version is amazing to say the least....you should take a look at it if you're not using that version. It goes way past Tim Harvey, RTS, and most of those systems costing 50 to 100 grand or more......meaning that money is no longer an object to be of concern......you can have a ticketing system with all the performance for pennies comparitively.
Mark @ CLACO
www.clacoequipment.com

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 01-26-2003, 03:47 PM:

quote:
...from Mark:
Buck, RTS is now ancient junk

Maybe you didn't know about their windows version, Mark?

We converted to this system recently, and have found RTS to be everything (positive) that's been mentioned already. There are areas where Sensible is flashier, such as ticketing sales and administration screens, and I preferred their email interface to the one that RTS uses (which indicates in the recipient header that the emails are coming from RTS software, and not the theatre). Sensible has reporting output that tends to be more graphical then RTS.

However, in most areas where the system interfaces with the customer in real time, the RTS system has worked much better for us.

RTS's approach to online credit card processing has produced an end result which works much better (in our experience) than the Sensible system, even though we use(d) the same card processing company with both systems.

The RTS system keeps connections to their card processor available at all times, which Sensible does not appear to. Our card processing performance was AWFUL until we went to RTS. It took between 4 and 15 seconds just to get an indication that we had connected to servers BEFORE we could swipe the customer's card... then we had to wait for processing time which, for reasons I don't understand, never ran as fast as RTS. It was an embarrassment to be sitting there, staring at the screen while we (and the customer) waited for the system to work. We tried different computers and internet connections (DSL, Cable and ISDN) with no perceivable difference in performance. With the RTS system, you hit 2 buttons and swipe the card. Total processing time averages 3 to 10 seconds, and seems to depend more on the kind of card the customer provides than anything else. Of course, this wouldn't matter to any theatre that doesn't accept plastic.

RTS allows for online ticketing now, and it works very well. Sensible is considering it, but has no function for it at present.

RTS has a fully-functioning magnetic stripe gift-card package now, so customers can purchase gifts for any dollar amount. Sensible has non-functional buttons for future expansion.

RTS has a show schedule screen which allows a visual representation of shows on-screen and intermission times. Sensible has a comparision function for potential conflicts, but you still have to draw things out to do up a schedule.

We also had printer problems with the Sensible system which did not resolve with the installation of a replacement printer. The problem did go away with the RTS software.

Overall, RTS will be more expensive... you have to relicense it every year, and some functions that are included with Sensible require separate payment. However, updates and customer support is included in the price. The Sensible system is purchased outright. However, it seems to me that the different levels of income heading toward the software developers HAS to have some bearing on overall levels customer service and support.

Each system has something to offer, depending on the needs of the theatre considering them. Each system (and probably all the others mentioned on this thread) has areas of particular interest that an individual user might wish could be handled differently. However, I would not go so far as to call either system "ancient" or "junk"... and certainly not the system presently sold by RTS.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-26-2003, 08:47 PM:

Yea, but Jack...how much did you pay for the software???? Probably 4 to 6 times more then Sensibles costs. And you have to pay a fee every year,....Most do, Sensible doesn't charge yearly. I doubt that Ready runs true 32 bit to make the most out of Win 2000 and XP? It definately does a CC transaction in less than 12 seconds, seen it happen in Aspen many times? Theirs also requires an open hs line and its interesting that they have their own CC processing deal going.

What printers are you using? Haven't had problems there. Sometimes you do have to download a new printer driver, but thats no big deal, and only pops up if you are using a new never before used printer. With Sensible you get the first years support free, then there is a charge for support. No re-liscensing fees every year either...a much better deal overall. Jack, I'm not sure you had the same program..... Also does RTS interface directly with typical everyday spread sheets that are commonly used?
Mark

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 01-26-2003, 10:41 PM:

Yah... on the cost, I do admit it will be more expensive for the RTS system... but it has the features I want to use right now, so I guess the tradeoff will be worth it... for me, at least. As for the long-term advantages of a yearly license over a system whereby you pay for annual support, time will tell. When I was more involved in broadcasting, I used to run into a traffic, billing & music scheduling package that ran on a monthly or annual pay basis. I can't say that I was impressed much by a system that would hold you up if you hadn't bought in for the next "period". I guess that's more common than I thought, though... Quickbooks pro has some kind of setup that works something like that... even authorizing over the 'net like XP. Heaven help you if you lose your internet connection!

Rusty's approach to sales as opposed to support is a model that'll work fine for some. RTS does cost more, but has 24/7 support, and at least 3 programming-qualified people that I've worked with sofar. As I said, RTS already has internet ticketing and mag-card processing up and running. That is important to me, and is something I can't fault them for charging for. They also charge for the credit-card processing functionality... something Sensible does not... but my luck has been much better with the RTS program so I'm not griping right now about the cost.

The printer is a Datamax. We've been around the block on drivers, and it just didn't work out. Curiously, both printers' cutting heads started jamming, so I'm not totally sure this is all the software's fault... but it does seem curious that we haven't had nearly the trouble since we changed.

Re: reports... RTS will export to PDF, RTF, XLS and HTML. It just has more of a "text" feel to it than Sensible does.

Anyhow... to each his own, I guess (look at the debate over ice machines!). Sensible is a good solution, and I really don't want to flame it much. It just wasn't heading in the direction we needed our system to go.

Posted by Donny Miner (Member # 1590) on 01-27-2003, 03:47 AM:

We use Tim Harvey by TSS at our 6-screen theatre. Have to say it's an easy program to learn and a breeze to train employee's on.

Posted by Greg Borr (Member # 386) on 01-27-2003, 10:27 AM:

Ancient Junk? As an authorized reseller of Sensible Cinema I understand you’d be opinionated, but ancient junk?

RTS is developed with Visual Basic 6, which only creates 32 bit compilers, we take advantage of the NT kernel, re: 2000/XP as well as offering backward compatibility with Windows 95/98/ME. So yes RTS is a full “32 Bit” application.

As for printer drivers, Sensible uses Windows printer drivers, this can lead to issues. We create our own drivers and compile them into the software, thus bypassing the Windows print spooler.

As for CC transactions, RTS requires an “always on connection” it does not have to be high speed, just connected; our average transaction from swipe to confirmation is less than 3 seconds.

RTS is dedicated to the theatre industry, we do not develop other products outside the industry, 2 of our partners are also theatre owners, our software is tested in our 4 local theatres prior to release, thus ensuring bug free operation.

Why does RTS license the software?

1. If we have a bad sales year, the annual income from support ensures that we will be able to continue to maintain our staff of 5 full time employees and continue to develop the product. As in all businesses, the theatre business is cyclical, we want our customers to feel confident that RTS will be there for them 10 years down the road, and not just on the day we receive their initial check.

2. Programming, continually updating a product to maintain compatibility with all Windows operating systems can prove to be very costly, for instance every release of the software needs to be tested on at least 6 different versions of Windows to ensure compatibility. This allows us to let customers run the software on older or less powerful machines, we use a proprietary flat file database structure that allows for operation on machines with as little as a 233 MHz processor and 32MB RAM. Saving significant hardware costs.

3. Support, we staff our help desk from 10:00 am until 11:00 pm EST M – F and on 12:00 noon until 8:00 pm SA-SN after which calls are forwarded to the on call techs cell phone, in most cases it will be directly answered. Worst case you will receive a call back within 10 minutes. We provide true 24/7/365 support, a claim that not many software companies can make.

4. Affordability, with no large upfront fees, licensing allows customers to start using the software at a reasonable price. For instance, the software cost for a small theatre with one ticketing and one concession station would be $500.00 the first year and every year there after, no hidden fees, no per call support charges, $500.00 for software, 24/7/365 support, and all upgrades.

There are many software companies offering programs tailored to the needs of theatre owners, some much better than others. I feel RTS is one of the best; of course I’m opinionated as well [Big Grin]

Greg Borr
Ready Theatre Systems

Posted by Lance C. McFetridge (Member # 95) on 01-27-2003, 12:16 PM:

Mark, I am curious how much do you charge as a reseller for the sensible program license for the box office and for the concession? As RTS pointed out, it seems that it is a straight $250 per selling station. How much is the yearly support package for the sensible, and do you charge for each individual selling station or can you purchase multiple station licenses? Do you have a module that will sell both tickets and concession from the same station and if so, what is the cost?
thanks for your help
lance

Posted by Buck Kolkmeyer (Member # 1128) on 01-27-2003, 01:07 PM:

RTS has probably paid for itself over and over again with the payroll timeclock using a fingerprint reader. Its easy punch someone in and out with a borrowed password, it's a little more difficult to borrow a finger.

Posted by Ky Boyd (Member # 23) on 01-27-2003, 03:19 PM:

Mark,

Apparently you haven't been reading bigscreenbiz.com

We switched to RTS on August 9th of last year and are incredibly happy with the system. We got the Partner Tech touch screen terminals and its great. We implemented the debit cards and super savers in December. Ian and I love RTS and how wonderfully responsive Greg and Rob are to our needs, wants and desires. I've looked at the new Sensible Cinema on the web site, but spending some time with Rob and Greg at ShoWest last year and playing with the system in a demo version for a couple of months after that really sold us on them and their system.

Posted by Ky Boyd (Member # 23) on 01-27-2003, 03:34 PM:

Oh yeah, I forgot about the fingerprint readers...love 'em!

A big part of our decision in switching was based on knowing Rob and Greg's continued development of their product as opposed to the languishing that happened with Sensible Cinema Box Office Pro while Rusty developed an integrated windows product.

While I'm on the subject of Windows, let me just also say that the fact that the Partner Tech units run windows 98 appealed to me. We bought a new Dell computer for the managers station and I have to say I honestly can't stand Windows 2000 Pro, but then I'm a Mac guy at heart [Smile]

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 01-27-2003, 04:53 PM:

quote:
I honestly can't stand Windows 2000 Pro, but then I'm a Mac guy at heart

Is it too stable of an OS for you Ky? [Big Grin]

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 01-27-2003, 05:18 PM:

quote:
...from Daryl:
Is it ...(mac)... too stable of an OS for you Ky?

Ouch!

Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 01-28-2003, 07:08 PM:

Our Windows 2000 Dell system crashed once very badly. We had to reinstall all the software to make it right.

Still, it has a couple of gremlins which I can't excise. I admit that I can't excise them because of my limited computer knowlege.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 01-28-2003, 10:52 PM:

I did a little checking in canada it would be defined as a criminal invasion of privacy for any employer or private person with out a court order to ask for directly or indirectly a fingerprint or anyone offering within Canada a device that as a requirement to employment that

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 01-29-2003, 05:08 AM:

RTS is the best. I really like Radiants RTMS but the price tag and some buginess issues make RTS the hands down winner.

Posted by Greg Borr (Member # 386) on 01-29-2003, 10:15 AM:

In regards to legality,

RTS never stores the fingerprint image to disk. The software creates a fingerprint template, which is a 300-byte signature based on the fingerprint image. A template is created and stored in an encrypted file when a user registers. When the user later touches the sensor to authenticate, a new template is created and then compared to the 'registered' template. If there is a match, the authentication is successful.

Templates are created with a proprietary algorithm that works much like a password 'hash' algorithm. It is a one-way conversion (i.e. fingerprint image -> fingerprint template) that cannot be reversed. This means that even if someone were able to crack the security of the system and steal the fingerprint template, they would not be able to create the fingerprint image. So while people will leave a copy of their fingerprints in many public places (e.g., on door handles, a drinking glass, a keyboard...) RTS never saves a copy that could be stolen.

The fingerprint readers are legal in the U.S., Canada, and Australia, and I imagine many other Countries.

Greg Borr
RTS

Posted by Ky Boyd (Member # 23) on 02-05-2003, 03:38 PM:

Daryl,

To each his own OS.

Ky

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 02-05-2003, 04:20 PM:

Just kidding Ky, I have lots of experience using and administering Apple computers and Apple networks. There once was a time when I spent an even amount of time in both worlds. [Smile]