Now, I have also noticed that sub-runs are virtually nonexistant here in New England, but proliferate in the South, especially in Florida. Why is that? I would think that if someone were to go into the more economically depressed areas of this region with a dollar house, they'd pack the place. The only problem I can see with sub-run is the condition of the prints once they get to this stage.

Thoughts and comments?
 

I noticed that although ticket prices were $2.25 and $1.50 at the two theatres during their final days, their concession prices were identical to the first-run theatres run by Regal, so the concessions profit was the same. Whether the ticket profits were the same depends on how much those theatres had to pay to get their prints.

A Regal employee told me that the Regal 8 was one of the most profitable second-run theatres. I attended movies at both of these theatres and on weekends, there were some pretty good crowds when popular movies were shown.

Both theatres were closed due to needed maintenance that was going to be expensive. (A failed air conditioner compressor at Gateway and the roof at Regal 8, according to what I've heard). Based on Regal's decision to close these theatres due to these costs, I'd say that the expensive maintenance on old buildings is the primary cause of death for second-run theatres. Another reason for some second-run houses shutting down was due to the neighborhoods around the theatre becoming run down, causing higher crime (drug deals in the parking lot). Carmike shut down our University 6 several years back because of this, according to a former Carmike employee). This same employee told me that the Cinema I and II second run theatre in Florence, AL was shut down by the health department. Companies don't seem to want to put much money into maintaining second-run theatre, so they seem to run until they develop serious maintenance problems, or have crime problems due to deterioration of surrounding areas.

When popular movies (Star Wars, There's Something About Mary, Waterboy, Toy Story 2, etc.) first hit the second-run houses, people crowd in because here, many people used to wait for movies to hit the second run places. The other people that tend to go to the second run houses were just out looking for something to do, and tended to be repeat customers, like south Huntsville people who think "Let's go to the Regal 8 tonight and see something", since it was cheap entertainment.

Of course, now, we have no second-run theatre anywhere close to Huntsville that I know of. Nashville or Birmingham would be the closest places I know of that would have such places anymore.

We had $2.00 weeknights, $2.50 weekends and holidays. The place did okay for itself. It was surely run down, and they never wanted to put any money into the place.

The problem was, the snack bar prices were just as high as regular UA theatres, and customers would come in and complain that they paid $2.50 to get in, but they had to pay $4.00 for a popcorn?!!?!? So I think people tended to sneak in food instead of pay for it.

However - our company is cufrently running a $3.00 house in a nearby town, and nobody really complains about the prices, they're just happy that admission is so low. BUT - there's a large 8-plex right up the street.

I would think that when there is 1st run competition in the same town, people are just grateful NOT to pay 1st run prices. BUT if there really isn't a 1st run theatre in the market, then people just expect EVERYTHING to be cheap.

------------------
Scott D. Neff
----------------
www.cinema-west.com
 

Is it better to play "on the break?" Absolutely. We played Mission Impossible 2 on the break, while we played #1 about 4 weeks after. We grossed twice as much on MI2 as on the first movie. We played The Patriot in its third week, and did over twice as much as we did on Braveheart, which we played something like 6 weeks in.

Is running a small theatre profitable? Yes, at least in my case. Nobody's getting rich or anything, but our attendance here has actually gone up a couple of percentage points this year, mostly because of more agressive booking I think. And that's in spite of a 50c price increase across the board last October.

I think any small town or 2nd run theatre can survive if you give the patrons the best possible show you can. (And, go after those trailers!!!) I'm lucky to have a day job, so if the theatre needs a new "whatever," I can bite the financial bullet for a few months to pay for it if necessary. Such upgrades always result in great word of mouth.

About print condition: It's actually kind of amazing how many prints we get that are in pretty good shape. It's the reels and cans that are beat up!
 

It's all in the management. Good management at an old theatre often beats poor management at a new theatre with the most modern equipment. One of our second-run theatres, the Gateway 4, had excellent management, and beat the pants off a first-run theatre about a half mile away when it came to presentation quality.

Of course, our other second-run theatre had terrible management. The manager there didn't even know what masking was. When I mentioned to him that all of his screens but one were 2.00:1 and did not have adjustable masking, he asked "What masking?" He had no idea what I was talking about. A week later, this theatre in the old A&P grocery store building was closed. Lesson: Don't build a multiplex theatre in an old grocery store!

Even if equipment and print conditions are not always optimal at older theatres, a good manager can make the best of what he or she has to work with and often come out ahead of an average first-run theatre. When the Gateway theatre was closed (the excellent second-run theatre), the manager got a job at a new 16-plex elsewhere, and this manager told me that one thing that led to getting that job was the positive comments about the projection quality at the Gateway. I put in a number of those comment cards myself, and made very positive comments about the theatre on my web site where I do the theatre reviews. I definitely try to reward good management every chance I get, and it is nice to think that I helped that manager get that job! I won't say this manager's name, but it anagrams to "Kept Screen Boy".

Evans A Criswell http://home.hiwaay.net/~criswell/theatre/

------ If you are in love with a female projectionist, send her a valentine. If you don't like her, send her a Ballantyne.

Not to worry however, I am assuming control of another and very old theater in another part of town. Not much that can be built out there, and very little competition to worry about. It used to be a sub run but went discount. My intention is to turn it into a cinema pub by years end. It has five screens, four are 90 seat houses and the other is a 250 seat house.

Dave

------------------
"If it's not worth doing, I have allready been there and done it"
 

I have over the course of the past thirty two years owned and operated all three types, first, sub, and discount. Both indoor and drive-in. From the mid 70s through the mid 90s my most successful operations were always the discounts...most were single screen except for a few twins. One of my theatres, that I have had now since 1970, and is the only one I still have, was for over twenty five years one of the top grossing dollar houses in the country. It is now a subrun as the discount business has almost completely dried up. The change occurred toward the mid 90s as newer twins and tri-plexes changed to a discount policy. They did very well for a while, however they have all closed over the past year and once again the several singles that have been in this area since pre TV days are still carrying on as subruns.

What happened to the discount (and subrun)business? Those of us who operate them often discuss this question among ourselves. Firstrun prices have skyrocketed...you would think that that alone would send more patrons to us...it hasn't! OK, so they have built a whole slew of new megaplexes in the area, and some of them aren't that bad...stadium seating, digital sound, pictures on two or three (sometimes more) screens, so you can always get in. Even considering all of that it doesn't make sense. When we had 8 discount screens in the area in the mid 90s, they together averaged about 9,000 admissions per week (1,125 per screen). Today with only three subrun screens left, they together are only averaging around 2,000 patrons per week. Where have the other 7,000 gone? Since the three that are left have given up discount and gone from a buck to two fifty or three dollars...did that make their fomer patrons say: Since they went from a dollar to two or three dollars...I won't pay it, I'll pay $7.00 at a megaplex instead. Does that make any sense?

Going to subrun has moved our run up to where we now play with the first runs during their later weeks of an engagement...but it doesn't seem to matter. We can't seem to recoup that lost audience. For one thing the teenagers have completely disappeared (not that that is a bad thing), and the families aren't there as before. The only audience that has remained unchanged, and possibly even increased, is the over 40 audience. They want to stay away from the teens, kids and the megaplexes, and they want to save $.

My personal theory is the economy...it's too damn good. People have lots of money, and aren't looking for bargains just now. Plus our society presently wants immediate gratification in every thing they do..the new car, the new house and even the new movie...must be had right away...no waiting, no matter what the cost, credit is easy...just sign on the line!

What does that hold for the future of subrun? It means it's a waiting game (if we can hold on). The business will be back after the economy tanks out...and it WILL. Anyone who has ever studied economics knows that the economy works in cycles. Some longer then others, but what goes around comes around for sure when speaking of economics. A recession WILL come, maybe even a depression (let's hope not). When it does, overtime dries up, unemployment goes up, and the bills catch up...then people will be looking for bargains again! And they will be back to not only subruns, but discounts will return as well.

Plus considering the state of the big chains as they are now in this "best of all economies"...they will all be bankrupt when the downturn arrives, or shortly thereafter.

Although I wouldn't recommend anyone going into subrun at the present time...for those of us that presently are...hang in there, as better times are coming. (Maybe sooner then later!...just look at those stock prices).
 

This theatre, in the early 90's (recession time), had over 1,000,000 people through the door for the fiscal year. It was in the top ten both for profit and number of patrons to walk through the door for General Cinema. Not bad for a 6 plex with about 1,500 seats, built by Mann in '76 and added to in '83. There would be times when they would stop selling tickets by 5:00. Not because of a shift change, but because all the shows were sold out for the rest of the day.

Currently, business is not what it use to be, but I understand that we still make a profit. The mall wants us out, and since GC wants out of anything west of the Mississip, when the renewal time for the least comes up, we will probably be out.

I am sure that Richard is right. The economy is doing well and people don't care about how much the entertainment costs. I believe that the next recession will probably hit no later than fall of '01, although this fall it may happen. Ever notice that most recessions always come after summer?

So if you have a discount house and can keep your head above water a little longer, you might be rolling in money.

Some excellent, some terrible, but mostly OK. I have noticed in the last 6 years, film condition has gotten better. I would say that this is due to the advent of the gigaplex. With more prints available at the beginning of a run, and most coming off screen in a few weeks. There is less time for the first prints off screen to be screwed up.
 

It wasn't always this way. Throughout the 70's and most of the 80's the distributors viewed discount theatres (most of which were older mom-and-pop type operations) as a seperate ancillary market. No one cared or paid much attention. Films were generally moved directly from the first runs to the discount theatres.

Starting about 1988-1989 everything changed. With the building boom in full swing, all of sudden there were many more discount venues as the majors shifted policy on their aging twins and triplexs so they wouldn't compete with their own new builds. But what really seems to have ignited the ire of the film distributors was the entrance into the discount market of chains like Super Saver Cinemas - building state of the art plexs comparable to the newer first runs but only charging $1.00 admission.

All of a sudden the discounts were no longer just an additional revenue source. The distributors began to perceive all such operations (regardless of size or market)as direct competion for the more lucrative first runs. A discounted ticket price came to be viewed as a 'loss leader' to entice the public to purchase non discounted concessions.

Thus evolved a series of distributor polices aimed at curbing the discount market. At first it confined to things like per capitas, increased rental percentages, non-split policies and the like. When these failed to have a significant impact, then came the delay in availibilities.

Given today's rapidly changing marketplace, these delays now result in discount exhibitors being unable to obtain a picture until it is either: (i) played out; (ii) disappeared from the public's consciouness; or (iii) two weeks before video release.

No matter what happens with economy in the future, the only serious chance or survival for the discount market is a reversal of the attitude on the part of the film distributors.
 

You are right about the "two weeks before video release" statement. During the end of the life of the Regal 8 second run in my area, they were showing several movies after their DVDs came out.

It was really neat to be able to pay $2.25 to see a movie I hadn't seen to decide if I wanted to buy the $20 or $25 DVD! That was a really useful (although unusual) service!

O'Neil put a sub-run theatre in Nashville in the old Hills shopping center at the intersection of TN 45 and US 31E and the last time I drove by it, I was amazed at how old some of the movies were. It seems that this location was once a grocery store or department store, back around 1991 or so.

I really hate to see sub-run theatres disappearing in my area, because I really enjoyed going to the sub-run places to catch "that movie I wanted to see again but didn't want to pay full price for". If sub-runs came back, maybe someone could reopen the University 6.

On the subject of sub-runs, how many theatres are there that show both first-run and sub-runs in the same complex, and charge different prices for each? I haven't encountered one of those, but it would seem to be a good idea for complexes that have a lot of screens where there aren't any sub-run screens at other locations.

 

All of these buildings are gone now.

All others here are UA, Regal, and Carmike. I avoid the UA's because they are generally nasty, and they often have a bluish image. I hate that.

I went to all of the dollar theaters. The best was the Mall twin. Round auditorium, and 350 seats. Always spotless, and usually had a decent screen image and sound. The manager was a stickler for perfection, and it showed.

There is only one "single theater" left in town, and its balcony has been walled in and turned into a 2nd theater. It was a porn theater until 1985 and there are lots of people in this town that will not go there because of its history. Nobody rememebers that it sat there empty for 12 years. I was one of the first to go in after the sale to the current owner. I worked on the Century CC's for about 6 hours and got them running. The sound worked, then died after the moisture in all of the parts worked its way out.

The owner was going to refurbish the theater and keep the balcony until I was tossed aside and new assistants came in. Now, they're an "art" house. With my management, there would have been lots of older titles, and recent biggies.

I have not seen them sell out.
The owner may close it after all.
 

I would love to see a 12 screen welfare theatre that could seat 3,000. Man, during a recession, you could print your own money. Hey, that isn't such a bad idea. I wonder if the government would mind if I did that.
 

we had no registers all the adding was done in our heads we did a full physical inventory every night. and for box office we used an AUTOMATICKET the best ticket machine in the world!!!! anyways this theatre did extremely well selling out every friday night saturday night and some times saturday matinees. we would have about 8 prints at a time and it was great. even when loews shutdown thier old six screen a few miles away and opened up a 20 we did not lose business not until someone bought the old six and renovated it and opened up a 7 screen "Discount" movie theatre did we start to suffer. I know work for that "Discount" theatre making more $$$$$ but I miss my little 3 screen. oh bye the way the 7 uses christie equipment (Typical 80's Loews booth) but the 3 used Century Projectors Strong SuperLume-x Lamphouses and Potts Alpha Platters (The old kind with the switch for Payout, Make-up Rewind, and off/Breakdown) I loved this equipment it was so reliable and I never had a problem now with the christie AW3's on the other hand...
 

I am curious to hear stories of owners who bought into a facility with the intent to open a subrun.
 

(It used to be a Kroger grocery store)

We drove by there this weekend and noticed no listings on the marquee, and two big U-Hauls backed up to the front doors. I pulled in the parking lot and went up to the doors...looked in and they were definetely closed.

There were guys in there removing the projection equipment (All Strong Pro 35's - with consoles and Strong Platters). Instead of moving the equipment down the stairs from the booth, they cut a 6' square hole in the wall and were removing it with a fork lift.

I went inside and asked what would be happening to the equipment and they said it would be used in another theatre.

Subrun theatres have existed since the earliest days of our industry. During the period of the nickelodeons (1908-1920), and even during the twenties there existed numerous runs depending on the size of the release territory. Some large cities had a many as six runs. Most areas had at least three or four runs.

One of the things that seems to surprise a lot of younger (under 40) people in this business is the fact that prior to the multi-plex theatres, in the days of single screens and even during the early transition period when the first twins appeared, first run movies only played in any given town (except large cities) for only one week. They then moved on to the next run, either to the neighborhood houses, or to the surrounding small towns. Occasionally a picture was held over for a 2nd week...and maybe several times a year a blockbuster made it for three weeks!

The release pattern usually worked like this: On national release the picture opened in the larger towns for the one week run. The 2nd runs were on a 28 day release after the first run completed their week. The key neighborhood houses and the larger of the suburban towns then played the picture for two or three days. 14 days after they finished it, it was available to the 3rd runs who again played it for 1, 2 or 3 days, and then 7 days later it was available to the 4th run houses.

The life of a picture was actually longer back then, with all the various runs, then it is today. Of course there was no TV or video except during the later part of that time. It was not unusual for popular pictures to return to the first runs again several months later and go through the entire release pattern again.

There were far more subrun theatres then first run back in those days (prior to 1950). TV pretty much put the cabosh to all that. However, many subrun houses have continued to this very day. Many of the single screen subruns that still exist, have always been subrun...some as long as since the 1920s. They were in business long before any multi-plexes existed. They saw twins, tri-plexes, quads and even multi-plexes come AND go! They are still here with the mega-plexes as well. And considering what is happening in the industry at the present time...some of them will still be around after some of the mega-plexes bite the dust.

So yes, people have and still open and operate theatres strictly as subruns. They are a market of their own. They serve a much needed purpose within our industry. NOT EVERYONE CAN AFFORD TO GO TO FIRST RUN THEATRES! This may surprise some, but it's true. Do you think that those who can't justify paying first run prices don't deserve to enjoy movies in a theatre too? Would you like the kids of poorer Americans to grow up never going to theatres to see movies? If they get use to watching films on video or only on TV, they will remain loyal to that media as adults. But if they grow up viewing films in subrun theatres...when they go out on their own and prosper for themselves they will continue to patronize theatres. If they have elevated themselves to a higher economic level they very well might then patronize firstrun theatres instead of the video store.
 

Mike Spaeth might want to expand on the differences between running a first-run theater and running a dollar house.

In Northern New Jersey -- from Trenton and Toms River north -- there's only two "pure" subrun theaters, an old single-screen on the Jersey Shore and a twin in Warren County. Two other multiplexes have a hybrid of subrun and Bollywood fare.

New Line, MGM, Universal, and Fox all do their subrun allocations market-by-market. So, basically, when metro Atlanta first-run houses all drop a film, they open it subrun. Universal does it by a smaller area. I can count on getting a film shortly after the 17-screen down the street loses it.

Paramount, WB, BV, and most of the others set national sub-run dates for a picture ... usually after the picture is completely dead and not showing anywhere in the country anymore.
 

The 2001 December 21/28 issue of "Entertainment Weekly" (#631/632) states:
"MOST SHOCKING STATISTIC
Shrek, The Mummy Returns, Planet of the Apes, and Dr. Seuss' How the Grinch Stole Christmas earned more in their first week of video & DVD release than they did in their first week of theatrical release."
 

I bet if any of those movies had been released direct-to-video without a theatrical release, they would be lucky to get 1/10 the video sales they did. Shortening the theatrical "window" any further may "kill the goose that lays the golden eggs".

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion
 

It has been 2024 days since the last post.