Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Ticket scam

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 02-12-2001, 06:36 PM:

Just reading the new issue of "Stuff" magazine.... it has a short bit about a ticket scam that's supposed to be real popular.

What happens is, two guys buy tickets. They go in. One guy takes both stubs and goes outside. He gives one of the stubs to a friend, then goes back inside. The friend waits a few minutes, then goes in. The process repeats until a bunch of people are let in on the same two tickets.

Sounds like it could work in some of these bigger places. Has anybody ever heard of this working?

Posted by Jerry Chase (Member # 660) on 02-12-2001, 08:36 PM:

Yeah, common. Another common one used to be splitting the Pacer or automatickets in half, and getting two people in on a single ticket while someone distracted the doorman. Another is the guy passing tickets out the auditorium fire exit to friends. Another is the janitor or crew that picks up tickets from one show and lets people use them for the next. Another is the guy who comes to the window and buys one adult and five kids tickets, then shows with himself and five adult friends. ("I've got five kids tickets? Really? The cashier must have made a mistake!") The cashier can also downsell tickets that way and pocket the extra cash, so he could be telling the truth. There are all sizes and shapes of scams, both by customers and employees. Very little of it is new.

Both kiosk and internet ticketing lend themselves to scams, and the role of the good doorman is becoming tougher.

Any owner that doesn't do random head counts of auditoriums is opening his or herself up for scams and theft.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 02-12-2001, 10:18 PM:

Have the doorman mark the tickets with a big PUNCH as he/she presents them for admission. Or, better still, a big red mark with a magic marker so some scammer would not be able to cover it up with their thumb. Pain in the butt during a rush, but anyone else have another suggestion?

Jeff, after reading your post below, There may not be a firm solution to the problem in your theater. Seems to me all one can hope for is the doorman has a good memory, and can recognize the person leaving for and returning from the restroom.

Posted by Jeff Newman (Member # 752) on 02-12-2001, 10:51 PM:

I was sitting here discussing this issue with my sister who thinks its "cool" to sneak into a movie, apparently the kids get a thrill out of saving some cash. Anyways, she proudly says to me "It is SO easy to sneak into the movies at your theatre! In fact I dont think I have paid for one movie there" So I ask her how she does it. Apparently, there is the following setup:

| RR |---Concession----| RR |
| |
|=================UU================|
| |

Kind of hard tgo represent, but to the sides
are where the different screens are, and
the concession is at the back end of the
theatre. Anyways this "scam" only works
when there is an Usher in the middle (UU)
and no ushers to the side of the RR (restrooms) They just tell the Usher they need to use the restroom, and they let them. Now if there is an usher taking tickets on the sides, they wont b e able to get in, but on slower nights, with just the usher in the center of the lobby by concession, it works every time. Pretty lame. Guess we just cant let customers use the restrooms anymore for fear of ripping off the theatre.

Hope my explination of the scenerio made sense, if not, let me know and Ill explain further..

-jeff Newman

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-12-2001, 11:36 PM:

I see theaters built all the time with "exit hallways", when in fact what they REALLY are is "free admission" hallways. Since the typical theater's doors never actually close and latch properly, the kids just open them from the outside and enter through the exit hallway. This puts them AFTER the doorman and they are free to see whatever they want. When asked for their tickets, a simple "what, I threw them away" always works.

Some theaters (notably older UAs) actually have double exit ramps accessible from the front of the lobby!

Posted by Evans A Criswell (Member # 381) on 02-13-2001, 08:25 AM:

One simple measure of security that I have used is "How easy is it to see a movie and get out without having my ticket stub torn?" I have an untorn stub for every theatre in my area except one.

The theatre in my area that has the best security is the Regal River Oaks Cinema 8 in Decatur, AL. Often, when I'm expecting a crowd to show up for movies, I buy my ticket at least an hour early and walk around in the mall (the theatre is behind the mall) for a while. That way, if a crowd shows up, I don't have to wait in the ticket line. Every time I've returned to the theatre to get into the auditorium, someone has always approached me to ask for my ticket stub so they could tear it, even though they know who I am. Everyone there has been trained to make sure every ticket is torn. This theatre would probably be the most difficult to sneak into. One time, someone came into the auditorium before a show and asked to see everyone's ticket stub. I heard later that a kid had bought a ticket for a different show and went into the R rated movie. If they're cracking down on that, you know they're checking everything very well.

However, that theatre has one flaw. There are two sides of the building. The two entrances to halls leading to auditoriums are to the left and right of the concession stand area in the back of the lobby. The restrooms are behind the concession stand and one can go into the restrooms from the left side and come out on the right side, and vice versa (they go all the way through!). I used this to my advantage one night when I went to see "Wizard of Oz". There was a huge line to get into that side of the auditorium because "Waterboy" was playing that night (on that same side of the theatre). I went to the restroom on the left side, walked through, and came out on the right, walked in front of the huge line, and went into my auditorium. I was the only one who saw "Wizard of Oz" that night and I escaped having to wait in the "Waterboy" line to get into it. My ticket stub had already been torn, though.

On slower nights, they tear the stub when they give it to you at the box office (which is just inside the lobby). I think the staff there have good memories and know if anyone tries any funny business.

Evans

Posted by Jeff Newman (Member # 752) on 02-13-2001, 08:54 AM:

Yes, we do try and watch for the funny stuff even on busy nights. We can always tell if someone is going to sneak in (i.e. they buy a ticket for themselves to buy an R rated movie, and since their friend isnt old enough, they buy a ticket to a different movie) We trail them and if they try to go to a different movie, out they go. The bad part is we have TWO box offices. SO they can always buy one from us, and then walk over to the other box office and buy another for their friend. of course we watch for this and catch them about oh... 30-50% of the time. We can only catch the ones that have not caught onto it and are obvious. We would never be able to catch someone that walked up alone, bought a ticket, then just walked way over to the other side. To combat this for R rated movies, the ushers have started checking ID's before they tear the tickets :-) Stops a lot of them!!

One thing I read from the post above "I threw my ticket stub in the trash" We will usually boot someone if we dont think they belong there, even if they threw their ticket stub in the trash. If it was an adult, we usually give them the benefit of the doubt, but a kid will get kicked out We post a sign saying to keep your stub. I heard a story though of one guy who went ballistic and said he threw his stub away, and he screamed he wanted to go find it, so he went to the restroom trash can, found his ticket, and went back to the Guest services desk, WITH the trash can, showed his stub, and threw the entire contents of the garbage can at the managers.. hahaha.. I know it sounds sadistic, and it probably is, but one of my only joys of working at the theatre (OTHER than watching the movies and playing with the projectors haha) is watching people snap. Its a brilliant example of humanity at its best...

-Jeff Newman

Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 02-13-2001, 11:24 AM:

Carmike tickets say "Patron Copy" and "Theatre" copy on the respective halves. Makes it easy.

Posted by Jerry Chase (Member # 660) on 02-13-2001, 11:25 AM:

"I heard a story though of one guy who went ballistic and said he threw his stub away, and he screamed he wanted to go find it, so he went to the restroom trash can, found his ticket, ..."

Similar story, Shadowood theatre in Boca Raton. The manager and staff were sticklers for stopping the crossover traffic. A man and two sons, as I recollect, pulled the same "I threw our tickets in the restroom trash!" routine. The usher escorted them to the restroom, where they triumphantly pulled three ticket stubs out of the trash bin. "You see! I told you we threw them in the trash!" They exited the restroom tickets in hand and waved them in front of the manager. She took them, asked "Are you SURE these are your tickets?" "Oh, yes. Absolutely!" She than said something to the effect of "I believe you. These were for the last set of shows, which have all exited. Furthermore, they weren't even for the auditorium the usher saw you entering. Now leave!" The response? "I'll have your job! We bought tickets and didn't realize you were going to be so nasty about our sitting in some empty seats! There was no reason for you to be so rude about it." The manager looked over at me, smiled and said "I think I can save you some trouble. Let me introduce my district manager." I smiled. They left.

Posted by Tom Ferreira (Member # 70) on 02-13-2001, 08:48 PM:

Which is why I'm really going to enjoy my new position as a district manager.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 02-13-2001, 09:05 PM:

Jerry, your story about the father and his two sons....Now we know why some of the young people are they way they are! They learned it from their parents. Tragic, isn't it?

Posted by Jerry Chase (Member # 660) on 02-13-2001, 09:51 PM:

Paul, I totally agree. At that theatre some of the worst offenders were people who were well past the age when they should have known better, and had enough money that the money they scammed shouldn't have been an issue.

Part of the problem was a GCC theatre across the street where the management had wimped out and allowed the customers to have free run of the facility. I don't particularly blame the manager of that theatre, because GCC policy was to make the customer happy at all costs. (I worked as a GCC manager for a blessedly short time.)

Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 02-14-2001, 03:42 AM:

The easiest way to prevent theater-hopping would be to have an usher at EVERY auditorium door, but since that's not always practical what about some sort of automated system, where the doors will open for one person when they insert the PROPER ticket? BART trains in the San Francisco area sort of work that way. Yes, it would take longer to get a lot of people in, and they'd have trouble going back out to the lobby- after the movie they'd be expected to leave through the back exits- but something like this would solve some problems!

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 02-14-2001, 08:42 AM:

Is the problem crippling or industry that much to go to that extreme?

Posted by Jim Ziegler (Member # 86) on 02-20-2001, 03:21 AM:

Yes, the problem is that bad... I can't really detail specific incidents, as they are security related, but I can tell you that in the last 12 months we have increased closing ushes on weekend nights from 1 to 7, and that during the late rounds, theatres are typically patrolled in 2 or 3 man teams...

I only wish the crowds we had tried ticket scams like were mentioned above. My crowds just rush the podium and try to push their way through, or they think by threating to kill us we will let them stay.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-20-2001, 07:13 AM:

Jim --- that sounds scary.

Is your theatre in a "bad part of town"? Or are the gang tactics described becoming common across the country? Any particular movie titles that attract this kind of mob mentality audience?

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Posted by Bob Maar (Member # 763) on 02-20-2001, 07:36 AM:

Sounds like this theatre should employ either an off duly uniformed cop or as I read, a few years ago, members of the local high school football team, to work security.This seemed to work for a theatre that was having problems with crossovers and people trying to slip by the ticket takers and generally giving personnel a rough time.

Posted by Jim Ziegler (Member # 86) on 02-20-2001, 10:09 AM:

We are located in the suburbs, but anytime you put 1000 teenagers in once place, problems start to occur. We employ 2 off duty police officers on Fridays and Saturdays and one on Sundays. This may not seem like a lot, until you take into accoudn that the city as a whole only has 5 officers on duty Friday and Saturday nights..

We have taken several steps to attempt to fix this problem, and they are, slowly, starting to work. So much so that we captured the attention of the newspaper as, apparently, we are one of the few theatres attempting to enforce order.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-20-2001, 03:23 PM:

In addition to the beefed up security personnel, I would suggest installing some video cameras to monitor the boxoffice and podium lines (with the pictures displayed on TV monitors in plain sight). This will let these hooligans know that their actions and identities are being recorded to share with the police if there is trouble.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 02-20-2001, 10:02 PM:

John, I agree. Seems like some hoodlums respect a machine more than they do a human. It goes right back to the earlier post about the father and his two sons.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-04-2001, 11:53 PM:

Now I've been reading the latest "Maxim" (I gotta get some new reading material) and they have an article on "How to Cheat."

A Leows employee explains how to get free movies. You're supposed to "complain to the manager about the conditions in the theatre, which are always horrible anyway," and you'll get your money back. He gives examples of horrible conditions: Too cold, urine smell, etc. This from a Leows employee!!

Posted by Jim Ziegler (Member # 86) on 03-05-2001, 05:09 AM:

This is pretty common.. There are people at my theatre who complain, and recieve passes, every visit.. I don't think they have paid for a movie in 2 years... But, if we don't give them passes and they call corporate and compain (even if the complaint is total BS) we get in trouble.. So we hand out an average of something like 20 passes a day...

Posted by Scott D. Neff (Member # 185) on 03-05-2001, 05:08 PM:

Century doesn't tear their tickets in half. Either did the company I started out with. They tore the tickets down the middle (spine if you please) They didn't worry about other ticket halfs. As IF they were really going to count them?

This way - ONE TICKET per ONE PERSON. No halfs to mess around with.

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 03-06-2001, 12:48 AM:

The theatre that I just started at as Assistant Manager has a reel problem with 12-15 year old kids who think they own the place. One of them punched one of my employees saturday night. Its a good thing I wasnt there cause I would have picked the kid up and threw him through a window. I say zero tolerance is the way to go, NO WARNINGS NOTHING just youre out.

------------------
I love to smoke I smoke seventhousand packs a day and I'm never F*&ing quittin!-- Denis Leary

Posted by Rachel Carter (Member # 693) on 03-06-2001, 01:23 PM:

Sean,

Obviously if a customer punches an employee they would get zero tolerance but what if an older couple comes in and while discussing the movie they don't realize they are disturbing others by talking loudly....do they get zero tolerance? There are exceptions to everything, you can never go with zero tolerance in this business, it doesn't work!

------------------
"Blood is thicker then blondes" - From the movie, Save the last Dance.

FUNNY!!!!!

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 03-06-2001, 06:22 PM:

Rachel,
There are rules that are there so that everyone can equally enjoy a movie. Yes there is a difference betwwen a quiet discussion of a film and a teenager shooting spitballs in the lobby. If a 70 year old was shooting spit balls in the lobby they would get the same treatment as a 13 year old who did the same thing.

------------------
I love to smoke I smoke seventhousand packs a day and I'm never F*&ing quittin!-- Denis Leary

Posted by Rachel Carter (Member # 693) on 03-06-2001, 06:27 PM:

Sean,
Don't twist my words around. If a 70 year old were spitting spit balls in the lobby of course they would get kicked out!

I'm saying, some people do not realize that they are making a disturbance, it happens all the time....people discussing the movie loudly not realizing they are bothering others is alot different then kids yelling and screaming during the movie...

Zero Tolerance just doesn't work!

------------------
"Blood is thicker then blondes" - From the movie, Save the last Dance.

FUNNY!!!!!

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 03-06-2001, 06:33 PM:

Rachel,

people not realizing they are making a disturbance is not the issue. the issue is the kids who are intentionally doing it on purpose. these kids have been allowed to run wild. They have been allowed in every week and the situation escaleted further and further. A quiet discussion is not breaking the rules. Someone making a scene is. thats where I have no tolerance.

------------------
I love to smoke I smoke seventhousand packs a day and I'm never F*&ing quittin!-- Denis Leary

Posted by Rachel Carter (Member # 693) on 03-06-2001, 06:37 PM:

I had never said if other people came in and made the kind of disturbance you get from those kids everyweek you shouldn't have kicked them out. I dealt with those same kids and their friends for way too long because your owner wouldn't let me kick them out. I'm glad he finally wants them out, that is not what I was talking about and you know it!

------------------
"Blood is thicker then blondes" - From the movie, Save the last Dance.

FUNNY!!!!!

Posted by Rachel Carter (Member # 693) on 03-06-2001, 06:40 PM:

You can correct me if I'm wrong but I always thought that zero tolerance applied to everyone, thats why I don't agree....

There are exceptions.

------------------
"Blood is thicker then blondes" - From the movie, Save the last Dance.

FUNNY!!!!!

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 03-06-2001, 06:41 PM:

As far as I knowing what you meant, Im not a mind reader. You have been in my shoes and know what these kids are like so if anyone should have known what the other meant it was you. But inderstandings happen all the time.

------------------
I love to smoke I smoke seventhousand packs a day and I'm never F*&ing quittin!-- Denis Leary

Posted by Rachel Carter (Member # 693) on 03-06-2001, 06:49 PM:

You got this all twisted. The old owner would have kicked these kids out in a second, the new one doesn't want to kick anyone out...or didn't when I was there, and you know that all too well. On my shifts when the owner was not present they would be kicked out and told never to come back, but as you know, they come back and your owner lets them stay.

I do not miss working at the theater you are at because of the way it is run with the new owner. If you can persuade him to run it like a business and not like his kids playhouse congrads!

But still the case, Zero tolerance is not just for kids, its for everyone!

------------------
"Blood is thicker then blondes" - From the movie, Save the last Dance.

FUNNY!!!!!

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 03-06-2001, 06:54 PM:

Thats right, IF AN ADULT ACTED LIKE ONE OF THESE KIDS THEY WOULD BE THROWN OUT WITH NO WARNINGS OR ARRESTED BECAUSE THERE ADULTS!

As for the way the business is run Well thats changing now. I am tring to get him to run it like a business. We have been making a lot of changes. Hopefully Me, Anthony, and John will be able to turn the theatre around. The first step is getting the kids and staff under control.

------------------
I love to smoke I smoke seventhousand packs a day and I'm never F*&ing quittin!-- Denis Leary

Posted by Rachel Carter (Member # 693) on 03-06-2001, 07:08 PM:

Have fun, I hope you like it there, really! And I hope that you do change it for the better, it could be a very nice small theater.

------------------
"Blood is thicker then blondes" - From the movie, Save the last Dance.

FUNNY!!!!!

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 03-07-2001, 12:38 PM:

Rachel and Sean: Good discussion. I recall that you both worked at the same theatre?

Posted by Rachel Carter (Member # 693) on 03-07-2001, 07:35 PM:

Yes John, I am now the G.M. of the the theater that Sean used to work at and he took my position as Asst. Manager at my old theater.

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 03-08-2001, 01:34 AM:

Yes john that is true. I dont know if you remember when I called you for information on improving the projection quality of that theatre. The material you sent me greatly helped me improve not only my projection, but that of the entire company. It is a shame though that the corporate office people stole this information from me and have refused to return it to me. I work as the Assistant Manger with rachels fiance (the GM) at the gloucester cinema after a stint at "Hollywood Hits" where I was head projectionist. I left Hollywood Hits with a lot of great knowledge and experience Thanks mostly to Scott Pryzbecean the GM there. Scott was truely a "projectionist" and always inspired me to do my best there. Now that I have moved into a management role I hope to help improve this Small community theatre with a lot of potential. Rachels bosses dont like me which creates a wierd situation working with her fiance, its too bad that rachels bosses do not want her to talk to me because i think rachel and I would get along well. I know that they lurk on this forum because there the ones that told her about my post on the gloucester cinema. I wish they would POST, it would be funny

im sure they have many interesting ideas on how to run theatres

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I love to smoke I smoke seventhousand packs a day and I'm never F*&ing quittin!-- Denis Leary

Posted by Rachel Carter (Member # 693) on 03-08-2001, 02:01 AM:

Heh, Sean works with my Fiance at my old theater, and I work at his old theater....plus, I just recently found out thru a family gathering that we are 2nd cousins (by marriage) and used to play with each other when we were very little (I don't even remember but thats what my uncle tells me)....Its funny!

*****SMALL WORLD!*****

------------------
"Blood is thicker then blondes" - From the movie, Save the last Dance.

FUNNY!!!!!

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 03-08-2001, 02:06 AM:

Yeah Rachel,
Anthony invited me to your wedding. Ill see you there

------------------
I love to smoke I smoke seventhousand packs a day and I'm never F*&ing quittin!-- Denis Leary