Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: The Perfect Auditorium

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Posted by Andrew McCrea (Member # 674) on 02-18-2001, 09:52 AM:

What would be your ideal auditorium?

Mine would probably be as follows...

- Black walls and ceiling
- Curved, tiered, staggered seating with 48 inches back to back
- Curved large screen
- Stadium Seating
- Dolby Digital Surround Sound
- Digital projection
- Waterfall curtains

What would yours be? If I think of some more, I'll put them up!

------------------
Andrew McCrea

"I'm Not Bad, I'm Just Drawn That Way!" - Jessica Rabbit

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 02-18-2001, 10:55 AM:

Black ceiling is good black walls is bad. If you want to be constantly cleaning the walls make them black. THey show up everything.

Curved seating is ok to some degree. If curved to much it puts the customer in a position that can be unconfortable on the sides of the seating arrangement. also can effect the way a person percieves the sound
good distance is crucial to allow for patrons to pass thru rows without the sitting patron having to stand up.

I honestly do not like curves screens. Unless you are doing cinerama curved screens are not needed. I remember watching American president on a curved screen. Everytime Michael Douglas would be shooting pool his cue stick would bend out of wack do to the curved screen. Things like that are reel anoying.

I do not like stadium seating for it's bad points. You do get an unblocked view but after you witness young children falling down the steps and older people falling up the steps all that comes to mind is lawsuits and higher insurance. You also have to deal with more light in the auditorium do to all the aisle lighting and estra wall lighting needed because of all the steps. Fire marchals will shut you down in a flat second if you do not maintain this enviroment. All this light gets reflected to the screen.

I would probably have at least two digital systems. Dolby Digital and DTS. I have been using DTS since it was introduced with jurassic park. I prefer it over all the other systems because it offers full dynamic range in all directional channels.

At this time I would not use a digital projection system. Everyone thinks digital is so great but you have to remember there has to be an analog conversion somewhere in the process. That means problems will alwasy excist no mattrer what. I prefer film and when film is done right it can be as flawless as the analog process will allow.

as far as curtains I have no problem with them. When they are opperating properly and set up correctly they look nice covering the screen. Until the motor breaks with the curtain half way up.

Just give me a standard well sloped setting arangement with plenty of room a nice size standard screen with colorful soundfold good sound and a flawless film presentation and I will be happy.

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 02-18-2001, 11:29 AM:

>>Digital projection<<

...SUCKS!

Vive le FILM!

-Aaron

Posted by Jerry Chase (Member # 660) on 02-18-2001, 12:21 PM:

I don't know about a "perfect" auditorium, since an auditorium is a mass of compromises from the get-go, but some of the very best film viewing I've ever had was in a smaller theatre that I managed for many years.

The theatre was built in a pre-existing shopping center, and ceiling height was fixed, requiring excavation to get a sloped floor. Even with that, the screen went from 10 inches below the ceiling to 30 inches from the floor and was only about 12 feet high. That screen was plain painted drywall, with the speakers sitting on the floor in front, right behind the curtain. (Try leaving a speaker sitting on the floor in today's theatres, and see how many minutes it takes before it gets stolen.)

The seating was modified continental, with a carpeted cross-aisle break just in front of the sweet spot. Late night screenings were a joy. The screen was directly in front, properly lit, with no need to tilt your neck up, and the sound for those days was as clean and crisp as you could find.

Not having the perforated screen or reflections from rigging meant that it was possible to get totally lost in the image. I still remember a travelogue short of flying through rain forest above Tahiti that was better than reality, when viewed there. I still would take the experience of seeing film in that auditorium over seeing film in 99% of all other auditoriums, classic, stadium, giant, or megaplex.

My regret was that the Norelco 35-70 projectors being used there never got a chance to show any 70mm film. I can only dream of how incredible the image would have been on that screen.

Of course, the auditorium was a bear when it was filled with people. Anyone standing in the front became part of the movie (a fact not lost on the first Rocky Horror crew) and people towards the back had to hope that they could see between the heads in front of them.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-18-2001, 12:42 PM:

For many reasons (handicapped/elderly access, tripping hazards, acoustics, keystone distortion, construction cost, etc.), I prefer conventionally sloped auditoriums. IMHO, a conventially sloped auditorium with comfortable modern seating (cupholders are mandatory), ample row spacing for legroom, and screen positioned higher for good unobstructed sightlines, would have all the advantages of stadium seating, without the problems.

The projection angle should ideally be less than a few degrees from perpendicular to the center of the screen. All formats should have common image height, with adjustable side masking. IMHO, curtains add class sorely missing in today's theatres (while protecting the screen between shows).

IMHO, many of the good conventionally sloped "out of date" theatres killed by stadium complexes could be very competitive if new comfortable seating was installed with the ample legroom demanded by today's audiences.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 02-18-2001, 01:32 PM:

Absolutly John!

Some of the best color in theatres that I have seen are Red velvet and Gold trim. Or like the Radio City Music Hall which is resplendant in Gold. The Mayan in Denver looks like the inside of a Mayan temple with earth tones and indian masks for lighting fixtures. The Cape Playhouse has America's largest cieling mural. It is an Art Deco representation of the Heavens. I have spent hours sitting in there looking at the cieling. The Crest in LA has the famous buildings of LA on the walls complete with lights in the windows and stars on the cieling with shooting stars and two or three curtains and an organ. A theatre should be visualy interesting before the lights go down.

Remember, "The Show Starts On The Sidewalk."

Posted by George Roher (Member # 91) on 02-18-2001, 02:11 PM:

My ideal auditorium would have a sloped floor and a balcony and would seat around 1,500 people. It would have a Cinerama strip screen with a curtain. There would be multicolored curtain lights. The show would be presented on film, via 2000ft reels. (Of course it would also be set up for 70mm and Cinerama, both of which would be shown as often as possible)

Posted by Rachel Carter (Member # 693) on 02-18-2001, 02:55 PM:

My ideal theater would be half stadium style and half sloped. Black ceilings are a must with red cloth walls and a red curtain on the screen.

I do not like the curved screens because IMO they are not compatible with all movies.

Sound, I would like to have Dolby Digital and DTS, I prefer the sound of DTS over anything else.

As far as seats are concerned, I prefer high back with the most important CUP HOLDERS!

------------------
"Blood is thicker then blondes" - From the movie, Save the last Dance.

FUNNY!!!!!

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 02-18-2001, 09:36 PM:

I would like a D150 screen
500 seats half on a rake and half on the stadia
70MM EQUIPPED (only REEL theatres have that

) ) also maybe a pairof lazy8's
Panastereo 70 system with a SOnics S4 speaker array all the digtial + double system mag

and of course the most important : an industry to provide 70mm prints from 65mm negatives to make it worthwile

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 02-18-2001, 10:03 PM:

Perfect Auditorium?

-A combination of slope seating and stadium seating, or a nice deep slope.

-Comfortable rocker seats with cupholders.

-Effective but unobtrusive aisle lighting.

-40' wide (or better) FLAT matte white screen with masking for all the available cinema film formats.

-A curtain of some type, whether its a waterfall or side to side curtain.

-A color scheme that is pleasing to the eyes, no dayglo colors or pastels, pleaaaase!

-Ornamental sound controls, whether in the form of padded wall carpeting, Soundfold, or acoustic panels.

-THX style drop ceiling with flourescent fixtures for cleaning installed... OR:

-if desired, some kind of decorative ceiling treatment with the fiber-optic stars, murals on the walls (on some type of acoustic treatment panel) with deco chandeliers with large wattage incandescent cleaning lights installed.

Booth:

-Two Norelco AAII or Century JJ 35/70 projectors (35mm 6000' changeovers standard, no automation)

-Strong Super-80 lamphouses with 4000W Christie or Osram bulbs

-Elmo 16mm projector with xenon lamp

-Dolby SRD, DTS35 and 70mm, 35mm mag, 70mm mag sound capability.

-Dream rack would have all-tube power amps for L, C, R,and QSC solid-state amps for surrounds and subwoofer

-Not-so-dream rack would have all QSC amps.

-Dolby CP200 with aux box and SA10 EX unit

-Biamped speakers (surrounds too!), probably fully upgraded Altec A4 screen channels with EV MantaRay horns and JBL or Altec surrounds, and JBL subs.

-Manual dimmer controls

-Various non-sync sources (CD, reel-to-reel, cassette, vinyl) conditioned thru a tube preamplifier.

-Aaron

Posted by Jason Burroughs (Member # 68) on 02-18-2001, 10:56 PM:

My idea of a perfect auditorium, the former GCC Northpark (auditorium 1). Pics are in the warehouse for those of you who haven't checked them out yet.

Posted by Richard C. Wolfe (Member # 431) on 02-18-2001, 11:10 PM:

George:
You wouldn't happen to be talking about the Uptown, now would you?

Posted by George Roher (Member # 91) on 02-18-2001, 11:34 PM:

Richard,

I wasn't specifically talking about the Uptown, at least not in it's present state. It no longer has a strip screen or projectors in the Able and Charlie booths. And I would want my ideal auditorium to be a bit larger then that.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-19-2001, 11:26 AM:

I LOVE a properly designed auditorium with a deep curved screen. Nothing like being surrounded by a huge 70mm or Cinerama image to engage your peripheral vision and "bring you into the movie". But I HATE that there are only a few dozen seats in the "sweet spot". Mildly curved gain screens (per SMPTE RP95) or flat matte screens are more practical in that they don't limit the good seats.

For well projected 35mm film, I prefer to sit lined up with center screen, about 2 picture heights from the screen. So for a 20x48 foot scope image, I'll sit 40 feet from the screen, and likewise for a 20x37 foot 1.85:1 flat image or a 20x27 foot "Academy" image.

For a 70mm picture (especially one shot in 65mm), I'll probably sit even closer, depending on the subject matter.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 02-19-2001, 01:53 PM:

I agree with the others that stadium seating is over-rated and really does nothing more than a well-designed sloped floor would do, but at much greater cost (both with respect to dollars and with respect to design/convenience/acoustics/etc.). I'm not even sure that I think cupholders are a good thing; sure, they're nice to have, but only if they are regularly cleaned, in order to prevent them from becoming sticky and nasty over time.

I'm sort of ambivalent about the curved-screen/flat-screen thing. Academy-ratio films just don't look very good on a deep-curve screen (even at the Uptown in DC...) to my eyes. Many scope and 70mm titles do "work" well on both shallow-curve and deep-curve screens. Some 1.85 and 1.66 films work better in some formats than others (Starship Troopers -- a 1.85 picture -- looked great on the Uptown's deep-curve screen.

I suppose then that an "ideal" theatre could conceivably have any type of screen (flat, shallow-curve, or deep-curve), as long as it were set up properly, with proper lenses, and with masking capable of adjusting to fit any format, preferably with the 70mm picture area being taller and wider than the 35mm scope picture. Curtains are a must. The screen should be situated within a procenium that is tastefully decorated. There should be a chandelier (or several) in the auditorium as well as in the lobby. A balcony would be nice, but only if the sound quality can be good; most theatres with balconies have terrible sound quality in the balcony seats...

Any ideal theatre should be able to show any common picture and sound format -- 16mm, 35mm (silent with variable speed, Academy, 1.66, 1.85, scope), and 70mm. An ideal booth would probably have a pair of 35/70 machines and one or two 16/35 machines as well. Carbon-arc lamps would be "nice" but are probably impractical...a good xenon setup would be fine. All sound formats (optical, 16/35/70 mag, SR-D, DTS (16/35/70), SDDS 8-channel, mag interlock (16/35/70), DA-88 interlock, etc.) should be supported. Non-sync sources should include CD, DAT, cassette, 1/4" 2-track tape, etc. There should be a separate sound system for microphone use. Limited stage lighting facilities should be provided (including at least one spotlight, probably a xenon or carbon-arc Super Trouper, or equivalent). The booth should be designed to be nitrate-safe.
Programming should change daily, and should commonly include double-features and short subjects. Titles should range from current first-run hits to foreign films to classic titles to film-festivals.
Basically, I want something with the architecture of the Byrd Theatre (Richmond, VA.), the picture quality of the Senator (Baltimore, MD.), the format support of the Egyptian Theatre (Hollywood, CA.), the sound quality of the Cinerama Dome (Hollywood, CA.), and the cleanliness and attention to detail of the best-run theatre in the country.

Hey, I can dream, can't I?

Posted by Bob Maar (Member # 763) on 02-19-2001, 04:23 PM:

My perfect auditorium also is built with a sloped (raked) floor on the grounf floor. The doors leading into the auditorium have been treated for both sound and light lock upon entering.

The seats have a slight curve to the rows, so when you sit straight your eyes focus on the center of the screen. The cupholder is a part of the armrest and not attachec to the back of the chair in front.

The slope in the floor ends at the first row of seats and then reverses into an upward direction. The screen is a minimum of forty feet wide with only side movable masking. The distance from the front row of seats to the screen is twenty foot minimum. The distance between rows is 42 inches. The Massey seat is used througout the auditorium.

Up stairs, there are two loges one on each side of the projection booth. The booth located theatre center and you step down to the perfectly laid out projection machines, No platter they are using 6000' reels.

The lens of a perfect 48" above finished floor is directly on the center of the Stewart screen which has been installed.

There are two projection ports and two observation ports..no slide port. The curtain in the front is Red velour and opens frpom the center. Directly behind is a scrim curtain on which you start projecting the Image.

Since this is a wish you have all three Digital systems might as well bring a couple of Magna Tech dubbers in as well.

Our auditorium is 60 feet wide and draped on the side wall and rear wall. Side and rear wall speakers as well as some ceiling speakers.

JBL Speakers with QSC Amplifiers.

The concession only serves the standards Popcorn, Candy and soda.

No Chicken wings, shrimp, pizza, hot dogs or hamburgers.

I guess I have to wake up now.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 02-19-2001, 05:20 PM:

Yes, the light-lock doors are super-important. There should be two sets of doors for each auditorium entrance, preferably not directly in line with one another.

Why only four portholes? Surely, there should be at least some provision for using a 16mm projector or spotlight at some point... I agree that slide advertisements shouldn't be used, but there are other times when having a pair of xenon slide projectors with a dissolve unit would be useful (an art lecture or maybe a live speaker introducing a travel film or something). A spotlight is definitely necessary, too, for the sake of completeness.

My experience with QSC amps has been nothing but positive, although I'd be curious to know if there is anything better out there that's fairly reliable. I have also heard really good things about the Stage Accompany loudspeakers, although I've never actually been in a theatre that uses them.

I hate to say it, but an NTSC video setup might not be a bad thing to have, too, if it could be made to look marginally acceptible on a tightly-masked portion of the big screen. Format support would have to include S-VHS, 3/4", 1", and Betacam SP. My only first-hand experience with large-screen video projection is with the DLP machine, but (as far as I know) you can't just plug a standard VCR into it...

Posted by Glenda Cockrum (Member # 542) on 02-19-2001, 09:49 PM:

Andrew, Thanks for asking this question! My husband and I are looking into buying the building next door to our single screen and these posts are priceless to us. So many good ideas and suggestions that we can scale down to fit a small intown store front. Hopefully in a year or so I will be able to bring some of these ideas into play for our second screen.

Posted by Andrew McCrea (Member # 674) on 02-20-2001, 05:49 PM:

Glenda, I'd love to see some photo's of the new place (if definate).

In addition to my post, I'd have at least 100 seats, 500 at the most, with Premier Seating's Emissary Model 2472 that rocks. The fabric would be cobalt. The cupholders would be be big enough to hold all sizes of drink cups. The whole auditorium would be automatic with state-of-the-art projection and sound. I'd only need a projectionest there to make-up and tear down the films and load them into the projector. I'd have endless loops, so the film would continue rotating. Sorry projectionests, but I have to save money.

Using CineQ, I'd have the computers dim the lights and start the shows!

I've go to go for dinner. Mom's calling. I'll post later! Just wait. You'll see!

------------------
Andrew McCrea

"I'm Not Bad, I'm Just Drawn That Way!" - Jessica Rabbit

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 02-20-2001, 06:37 PM:

A 100-seat theatre is too small. I'd argue that 300-400 or so is a practical minimum, with 1500 or so as a maximum. The "sweet spot" for me with respect to theatre size is probably in the 750-seat range for the main floor, plus maybe another 150-200 in the balcony.

I don't know about seat models; most of them seem to be cheaply made plastic junk that looks decent when new but deteriorates quickly. I'm not a fan of the high-back seats and am somewhat ambivalent about "rocker" seats. Mostly, I'd be concerned about overall seat comfort and durability over time. There seem to be plenty of used/reconditioned seats available for sale, so there's not much excuse to buy "new" and get the cheapest possible thing when slightly older seats in good condition are readily available and of higher quality.

As for endless loops and no projectionists -- what the heck are you thinking? I'm completely in favor of cutting costs, but on-screen presentation quality is not the place to cut. People go to movies to watch a picture on the screen, and there is no excuse for that picture to be out of focus, out of frame, dirty, scratched, or otherwise mangled, or to have poor sound. Don't think of a projectionist as someone who pushes buttons; think of him as a sort of quality-control person for the auditoria. Also consider that equipment is not 100% reliable even under the best of circumstances and that a good operator will be able to recommend the necessary preventive maintanence and also keep the show going when something breaks unexpectedly. Lost shows create unhappy customers and lost revenue, neither of which is bad for business. One of many problems with endless loops is that it is basically impossible to show more than one film in the theatre on the same day.

Sorry for the rant, but I've seen too many horribly botched films presentations at theatres which have this philosophy. Occasionally, it actually works (print is in good shape, focus doesn't drift, sound is good), but more often than not there are major problems. There should never be a customer complaint about "bad focus" or "no sound" or "wrong lens"--it is the theatre's responsibility to not have these problems occur and to notice them and fix them before the customers have time to complain if they do occur occasionally.

There are plenty of better ways to save money: advertise wisely, choose slightly lower-quality equipment and auditorium finishings (as long as there is enough legroom and the seats are comfortable, audiences probably won't notice much difference between $50 seats and $200 seats), buy equipment and seats used and not new, don't worry so much about lobby decor, pick up/deliver prints yourself rather than shipping them via highway films, get posters from other theatres rather than ordering them and paying shipping, etc.

Basically, trying to "save" money by cutting in areas which will be easily noticed by the customer is a false economy. Don't try to skimp on maintenance, staffing, concession stand size, etc. This sort of "savings" will ultimately hurt the business in the long term.

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 02-20-2001, 06:39 PM:

Andrew,

If you want to save money hire a projectionist. Do not get endless loop systems they are not practical in a theatrical situation that involves moving films and changing programs on a weekly basis. The projector becomes second and therefor can develope problems that you may not be aware of before it is too late and a print becomes damaged casting you big money to replace. The best thing about threading a machine is you can check the equipment everytime you thread one up. So catching a problem before it causes disaster will most likely occure. That's why I don't like timers on the machines and pushbuttons down stairs. I believe in being at the machine when it is time to start the show so all problems can be caught before they become serious.

Posted by Bernie Anderson Jr (Member # 410) on 02-21-2001, 06:32 AM:

Radio City Music Hall or the Roxy in NYC. Remember it's not all about the film.

Posted by Andrew McCrea (Member # 674) on 02-21-2001, 07:17 AM:

Their still will be a projectionest, but the endless loops and other features will help me save money.

In my ideal theatre, I would have 4 different sizes for auditoriums. A-D. A being the smallest and D being the biggest.

A = 159 SEATS
B = 228 SEATS
C = 322 SEATS
D = 459 SEATS

------------------
Andrew McCrea

"I'm Not Bad, I'm Just Drawn That Way!" - Jessica Rabbit

Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 02-21-2001, 08:16 AM:

Perfect Auditorium.....
Temperature - mid 80's, slight breeze blowing, a star filled sky overhead.

10 acres of lush green grass, 10 rows - steep ramped, single screen (45' x 107'), double-features, 7,500 watts of Xenon running through a restored Brenkert 35mm projector showing that damned "Dancing Hotdog!!".

It just doesn't get any better than that!

Everyone's idea of a "perfect Auditorium" is different.

Posted by Dennis Atkinson (Member # 345) on 02-21-2001, 06:38 PM:

What about screen size?
My fav theater 3 decades ago had a 45'+ wide screen in it. It also had royal blue curtains. All other theaters had red.

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 02-21-2001, 10:45 PM:

>> The whole auditorium would be automatic with state-of-the-art projection and sound.<<

Oxymoron.

>>I'd have endless loops, so the film would continue rotating.<<

Without stopping? A disaster waiting to happen.

>>Using CineQ, I'd have the computers dim the lights and start the shows!<<

...and have vending machines for the concessions!

***DEVIL'S ADVOCATE TIME!!!***

Andrew, I know your only 13, but take some time and listen to those on here with MANY years of collective experience. Your 'dream multiplex' is beginning to look like a bad nightmare.

I am beginning to have a very difficult time taking you seriously as far as you trying to open a commerical movie theatre. I am sure many others here share my observations. Perhaps you should try getting a job working in the industry first. Get a feel for the business from the INSIDE. *THEN* decide if you want to get into the business.

If you *MUST* do this i *STRONGLY* suggest ( and you may have to do this anyway to get business licenses etc) get some adults with movie-theatre operating experience to assist you. This includes a competent projectionist.

The way I see it, if you even get the place open, I would predict you would be closed within 6 months (or less if the competition forces you to close or some kind of major (read expensive) disaster were to strike.)

Good Luck.

Aaron

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 02-22-2001, 08:42 PM:

Andrew I too am getting a little annoyed for this is noise
I hope you don't believe that Famous Players uses Loops. They tryed several and removed them reel fast
Also I think you only experience is the SilverCity you keep referring to There are better theatres in Canada and If I was equiping my own theatre it wouldn't include any CineQ as it is probably the least reliable least userfriendly device I have ever serviced

Posted by Andrew McCrea (Member # 674) on 03-10-2001, 10:13 AM:

For 1, SilverCity is not the only theatres I go to. I have mentioned about 4 or 5 other theatres here!

Also, How can I get into the industry now with labour laws? At least owning my own theatre/chain would allow me to be in the industry with out a fight/problem.

Also, Gordon, I e-mailed you privately. It just talks about some things, but it's important.

------------------
Andrew McCrea

"I'm Not Bad, I'm Just Drawn That Way!" - Jessica Rabbit

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 03-10-2001, 10:58 AM:

In your email you said
"Gord,
I'm getting sick of the way you've been treating me on the forums. How would you like it if I dissed all the crappy topics you've posted (cuz, let's face it, there have been some)! You just always have the need to dis me and I never dis you, but maybe I'll do that now, because it really is getting annoying and I'll see what you think of it.

OKAY?! Well, doesn't matter. BYE!

Andrew McCrea"

If you don't like what you hear to bad ask silly questions take what you get. Personally I feel you add to the Signal to Noise Ratio

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 03-10-2001, 01:26 PM:

Andrews latest email to me
"LOL, You? A Professional? Don't Make Me Laugh!"
I think this is getting rather nasty and silly.
Andrew ever email me again like this I will forward it to your ISP with a nasty note
go drink your milk and cookies

Posted by Andrew McCrea (Member # 674) on 03-10-2001, 05:28 PM:

Here's some B.S. That Gordon sent me!

I have asked for you to be booted of filmtech you are an imature young man
who seems bent on increasing the noise level on the forum.
I have complained to your ISP and if necasary all the other 142 of them as well
gordon

That's a threat... Plus, Why are you posting private chats? That's why I sent it to you VIA e-mail!

I'm just trying to learn stuff here. Not into fights.

------------------
Andrew McCrea

"I'm Not Bad, I'm Just Drawn That Way!" - Jessica Rabbit

Posted by Lance C. McFetridge (Member # 95) on 03-10-2001, 06:18 PM:

time to stop lurking and respond to a thread that seems to be going in a direction that may not be in the best interest of all the "theatre owners, managers and staff" as was probably intended. I too am just a little skeptical of Andrew's intentions on this line of posts. When the question was first asked " Can a 13 year old own a theatre"? the answer should have been "probably not"!! Unless that 13 year old was born on February 29th, There would be real problem with negotiating and signing any contracts. Don't think for a minute that any newly formed corporation would not be investigated by anyone considering becoming contractually involved. I guess what really made me sit up was the comment about Gordon not being a professional. When was the last time anyone had a tech show up in a suit to eq a theatre? In the past 6 years that I have had dealings with Mr. McLeod, it has been nothing short of professional. I have found Gordon to be extremely knowledgeable, helpful and quick to lend advice without being condescending. I happen to own a theatre, and the naievety that you can fully automate a booth and completely hire all aspects of the general operations of the theatre is preposterous. I agree with a previous poster, the business would be closed in a matter of months. There seems to be some flaws in this discussion, and in my opinion, a loss of credibility.
lance

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-10-2001, 10:02 PM:

Allright, my crappy (and thankfully temporary) ISP is finally acting somewhat like an ISP and allowed me to read the forums. I have received well over 30 emails this afternoon from people upset with this thread. Here is the bottom line from the way I see it. If anyone else has something to add, please feel free to in a reply below. All comments are appreciated.

Andrew, there is one basic rule to follow here on the forums and that is to not attack other members. Gordon McLeod is a very well respected and highly knowledgeable professional engineer who has been in this business an awful long time. His presence here has always been in my opinion a treat to us all and with right at 1500 posts (most of which were very informative and helpful to others), I would expect for you to show him some maturity and respect. Aaron Sisemore has also been in the business long enough to know what will work and what will not. If you will go back and re-read their posts above you will see that although they did express concern that such recent posts of yours were lowering the signal to noise ratio on the site, their answers STILL were helpful to your inquiries. If you want to succeed in this business, the best thing you can do is listen to people who are currently in it. At this point I will also state that I agree with everyone's responses on this thread that your dream theater IS destined to fail. You simply cannot cut corners where you are wanting to and stay in business. However, to keep this thread from turning into a massive rant, I am not going to comment further.

To Gordon and everyone else who emailed me on this thread today, please remember that Andrew is only 13 years old. I received an email from Andrew's father shortly ago (but incredibly suspiciously from Andrew's own email address) and in there he stated that Andrew has been involved in many public things and there have been numerous documentations in newspapers about him. I have asked him to email me links to these from the newspaper's websites. When I get them, I will post them to put an end to whether Andrew is really 13 years old, or a prankster with a very poor sense of humor (who at that point will be swiftly banned). Assuming the links are sent (no reason not to if they are real), then I will ask the members as a whole to cut Andrew a little slack in the future. Should I discriminate because he is only 13? Should I discriminate because someone is retired? Should I discriminate because someone is an aspiring projectionist or manager and is just trying to learn? Should I discriminate against someone who is not in the industry, nor ever will be and is just a fan of movies? These are hard questions and as of right now, I don't have good answers.

Like I said above, all comments are appreciated.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 03-10-2001, 10:57 PM:

"When I was a child, I used to talk like a child, think like a child, reason like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways aside." (1 Corinthians, Chapter 13, Verse 11).

Andrew's questions did get some good discussions going. Let's hope Andrew can put childish ways aside, and continue to learn and mature by participating in Film-Tech.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 03-10-2001, 11:01 PM:

Good quote

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 03-11-2001, 02:04 AM:

Yes, indeed.

Posted by Rachel Carter (Member # 693) on 03-11-2001, 02:50 AM:

Well....I....uhhh...ya....nothing much to say about this.

Can't we just all get along????

Just adding to the noise

Posted by Michael Pace (Member # 553) on 03-11-2001, 07:57 AM:

Andrew McCrea,

Being only 13 and presumably going on 14 I think that you should sit back and enjoy the ride. The PROFESSIONAL AND TECHNICAL INFORMATION offered on this site is probably the most valuable I have seen. Use it to your advantage to mould the future that you may be seeking.

I have been following the comments of many of the contributors to this site and their comments are extremely accurate on the state of the industry.

The lack of concern by the major film exhibition companies even though they are saying they are concerned is highly visible in the way that expansion of the number of cinemas that they were building instead of consolidating and running their existing screens is a classic example.

The love of the Almighty Dollar has blinded too many companies.

I could elaborate considerably more but I think it would be wise of you file away the information offered and make use of it in a positive way in the future.

You may be one of the people that participates in the genuine restructuring of the cinema insustry.

Regards,

Michael Pace.

Posted by Jerry Chase (Member # 660) on 03-11-2001, 10:32 AM:

My take on this, FWIW.

Brad, personally, I liked the way you responded. I'll save you some time, I did a quick search of
the Winnepeg Sun website and the Winnepeg Free Press website(which only archives for one week), and found nothing on this Andrew McCrea. He does have a new web address at: http://www.crazyfordonaldstreet.com/

Part of growing up is exploring and having dreams. Another part is learning how to interact with others, and how other people will react. I have found some of the questions Andrew has asked to be entertaining and provocative of some good responses. The recent challenge to Andrew by Gordon was unfortunately handled in the style of a defensive 13 year old. What followed was another pissing match, similar in some ways to another recent thread. You know how I feel about pissing matches.

Andrew, if you are really 13, I've worked in this industry over twice as long as you've been alive. (Now there's a phrase guaranteed to turn off a teenager! ) I've found that there is a tremendous amount of stuff I don't know, and the generousity of people like Gordon and Scott and Aaron and the many others here in sharing their knowledge is something that isn't to be taken lightly or "dissed" in any way.

These guys are pros that know their stuff, and they don't have to be here or respond to you at all. If the noise level gets too high, they'll leave, pure and simple. That will put you and many others S.O.L.. I don't think you want that.

You don't have to try to impress people here. Ask intelligent questions that are ON TOPIC and people will be as impressed as they're going to get. Remember that this is a professional forum, and the rules for acceptance here are much stricter than chat or usenet, even if they aren't stated. You need to develop your skills of interacting professionally if you want to be a success either here or in life.

If you're upset with something Gordon says, then an email that is straight and to the point might be in order- without the threats.
Your aim should be to work out the differences, not have a confrontation. I've written my share of ripping letters and emails, but if I want things to change, I go light on the ripping and try instead to understand where the other guy is coming from.

FWIW, posting about grandiose plans, when you have no way of accomplishing them, _will_ make people ignore you. I'd suggest either cutting back on that or presenting proof that you can do what you plan.

Gordon, you know better. There is just about no way that you can come off looking good when you argue publicly with anyone under the age of eighteen. Complaining to an ISP won't do squat either, unless there is a violation of the T.O.S.. If you don't like Andrew, ignore him. You don't have to prove that you have greater technical knowledge.

Brad is the one who has to set policy on what is acceptable here and what crosses the line. BTW, this thread is getting WAY away from "ground level" and into "film-yak," and I hope that other threads don't drift off-topic as badly as this one. If anyone wants to have a public pissing match in the future, I hope they at least have the decency to start a new thread, properly titled, so the rest of us can ignore it.

Getting back on-topic, as for loop platters, anyone who has ever dealt with endless loop casette tapes for their answering machines will tell you it can be done, but it can't be done well. You'd be better off trying to design a projector that would completely lift the film out of the film path at the end of the show and rewind, like the SWORD.

Sorry for the pontificating. The D.M. in me sometimes comes out.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-11-2001, 01:15 PM:

A quick update, MSN closed Andrew's email account upon reading the emails that were sent from it yesterday. I assume that if anyone has the need to reach Andrew that he can be reached through the website listed in the post above.

His father has responded from another Hotmail account (despite my requesting a real, verifiable email address) with an intro page link to a Canadian magazine. The search turned up no results. I have requested a direct link to post here.

To Andrew, I had mentioned awhile back for you to please follow up on questions asked of you in these threads on topics that you start. You are still not doing this. Case in point my question to you in "Can a 13 year old own a theater part 2". The threads you start definitely get some interest going with the questions you ask, for many people respond, but it is unprofessional to dodge other people's questions in return. To my knowledge, any questions that have been asked of you that were never responded to were made with an intent of helping you. Before you post any more new topics, please go back and read through the other topics which you have started and answer the questions asked by the other members. You will find that in the end, the discussions will be helpful in your quest to run an theater.

Finally, I agree this thread has wandered too far away from it's original topic. I am closing it and moving it to the Yak forum. If anyone desires to comment further on the Andrew situation, please do so on this thread in the Yak forum. If anyone desires to keep this thread running, please start a new topic titled "The perfect auditorium part 2". Thanks.