Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: The Proper Way To Split A Theatre

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Posted by Andrew McCrea (Member # 674) on 02-24-2001, 07:19 PM:

Can anyone provide me with the proper ways on splitting one huge auditorium into 2 smaller auditoriums?

Thanx!

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Andrew McCrea

"I'm Not Bad, I'm Just Drawn That Way!" - Jessica Rabbit

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 02-24-2001, 07:56 PM:

Yes. Follow these simple steps in order:

1. Pull up all the seats in the middle of each row to make room for the new wall.

2. Cut screen in half to make room for new wall.

3. Erect new wall down the middle of the auditorium using the cheapest lumber from Home Depot.

4. Put up drywall (also available at Home Depot). Painting and wall carpet is optional.

5. Aim the two projectors that were in the booth (presumably for changeover operation) so that they each point at a separate screen. Accuracy is optional. Audiences actually prefer keystoning pictures.

6. Buy some cheap platters to place the film on.

7. Advertise yourself as a brand new multiplex!

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 02-24-2001, 08:25 PM:

Joe,

What do you mean platterS...Just one beat up 4 or 5 deck used platter will do!

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 02-24-2001, 08:27 PM:

Actually why cut the screen just bring the wall up to it and start it again on the other side

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-24-2001, 10:08 PM:

Andrew: IMHO, too many really good theatres were RUINED by splitting them.

Adding insult to injury, the modifications were often poorly done, with poor acoustic isolation between the rooms, off-center projectors causing severe keystone distortion, old seats pointing toward what was the center of a large screen and is now the edge of a small screen, etc. A DUMB IDEA by all accounts!

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John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 02-25-2001, 12:13 AM:

Hell, you don't even need to buy a screen just paint the wall white and mount a speaker on each side. I have seen this done. I fully agree with what Mr. Pytlak has stated. I too have seen nice sized auditoriums with big screens split and ruined. The term Tunnel vision was always associated with this type of splitting.

Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 02-25-2001, 09:20 AM:

So it was YOU who multi-ed Trenton Gordon???!!!

Posted by Bob Maar (Member # 763) on 02-25-2001, 09:34 AM:

Andrew, it is extremely important for you to pay attention to what John is saying above. You will have tho hire an architect to draw new plans to file for a building permit. Is the auditorium longer than the width or wider than the length. Check to see how the HVAC ducting is laid out in the present auditorium. If you are dong a center wall make sure the wall does not stop at the acoustical ceiling but continues up to the deck. Make sure you install a sound proof wall down the center. Make sure you do a sight line study before you commit to the design. This is not a simple job, to do it right. it takes careful planning and execution. Try to get the projector as close to center screen to avoid the picture becoming a trapazoid by the time it hits the screen. Go into www.Schneider.com and download their lens calculator which can give you an idea where you can place the projectors.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 02-25-2001, 11:44 AM:

David I service Trenton but had nothing to do with trippling of it

Posted by Andrew McCrea (Member # 674) on 02-25-2001, 04:58 PM:

Would a big giant white wall look okay? Could the wall be silver? If it does look good, what a way to save money! Even in a new theatre!

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Andrew McCrea

"I'm Not Bad, I'm Just Drawn That Way!" - Jessica Rabbit

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 02-25-2001, 05:17 PM:

NO! Bad idea. I was joking earlier. However I have seen screens done this way and later on they were corrected and screens were hung and speakers placed behind them. The sound is really effected by the placement on the sides The sound seems to lose directivity in comparison to the action on the screen. Partly because of the fact you do not have a center channel unless you hang it above or below the screen. That is just not practical.

Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 02-25-2001, 05:55 PM:

There are no shortcuts to building a theatre. Do it right or don't do it at all.

But you can have fun putting on shows in unusual places. Ky did Jaws in the swimming pool at our collage. I showed a gitty film noir in an ally in downtown Denver a few years ago. We are trying to organize a park series in Santa Rosa this summer. Perhaps we should show Dr. Zivago on the ice at our local ice arena some night, or Ice Station Zebra?

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 02-26-2001, 11:59 AM:

I've seen two theatres where a large auditorium was shortened up (the screen moved closer to the booth) and a second screen installed behind the first one. Of course the problem with this is, you need two complete projection booths, and a hallway running down to the new auditorium. But it's sure better than side-by-side bowling alleys.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-26-2001, 12:44 PM:

Some small Kodak screening rooms use a specially finished plaster wall as a screen, since a perforated screen would interfere with very close nose-to-the-screen image evaluations we need to do. The speakers are located just below or just above these small screens. But for good sound "placement" in a real theatre, the speakers should always be located behind a perforated screen.

Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 02-26-2001, 05:31 PM:

Gordon, I knew you wouldn't have done it that way. But am I right? Trenton uses about 2/3 of original screen in one aud, 1/3 in the other, with some curtain at the side?
You generally exit beside the screens to the municipal parking and I swear that's what it looks like, the wall built "up to" the old screen, as you joked about.....

Always had a good picture though, and I always loved those "spring rocker" chairs!
Real butter on the corn, too!

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 02-26-2001, 05:39 PM:

The large theatre has the complete original screen in it. The aud beside it was the wisth of the exit procenium arch and organ chamber on the side of the stage.

Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 02-26-2001, 08:29 PM:

PROPER way to split a theatre? That's easy- DON'T!!!

Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 02-27-2001, 12:09 AM:

No room dividing is necessary at all. Two film on one screen at once using oppositely polarized filters on each projector and issueing patrons glasses with filters oriented for the feature they want and using headphones for the correct sound. This would work similarly to the way 3D glasses allow each eye to see only the image intended and not the other. It would probably help if both films were very close to the same length. Image quality would probably be lousy but what the hell savings is savings. Does anybody know if this has been tried? I can't believe it hasn't.

Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 02-27-2001, 01:45 AM:

I think the most successful divisions I've seen were main floor/balcony theaters.

Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 02-27-2001, 11:43 AM:

Gordon, there's just enough left around there to tease a little bit. Some gold-leaf along where the balcony was, elaborate plaster alcoves where fountains were. Strange how the balcony ended up sideways, I've seen a lovely job of "splitting" one into two simply by using the balcony as the "stadium" screen 2, and that's in Renfrew....

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-27-2001, 01:26 PM:

William Hooper:

I agree, turning a large balcony area into another theatre or two has the best chance of being done right. That leaves the main auditorium with the big screen, and usually helps by moving its projection room downstairs with much less keystone distortion than from way up above the old balcony. With care, you can still have a very good large auditorium and a nicely done smaller screen or two as the pictures play out. The trick is in paying attention to the details: good sightlines, good acoustic isolation, new seats with lots of legroom, maintaining the character of the older building, etc.

Posted by Bob Maar (Member # 763) on 02-27-2001, 01:34 PM:

I have sucessfully devided auditoriums by putting a wall across the width of an auditorium and keeping the original screen exactly where is is. You can do this if you have enough height and build a platform in the projection booth and project over the top of the newly created cinema where the rear of the auditorium used to be.

You must make sure that the ceiling in the rear auditorium is completely soundproofed
and the hangers fastening the ceiling to the bar joist clear the projection beam.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 02-27-2001, 01:51 PM:

Bob Maar: That's what I was talking about in my post above. I just worded it wrong. The ones I've seen are as you described...the original screen left in place, the NEW screen installed in front of the new wall.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-27-2001, 02:08 PM:

Bob and Mike:

The main disadvantage to having a short throw with the original wide screen is the poor depth of focus of the really short focal length lenses required.

For example, let's say the original theatre had a 120 foot throw to a 25x60 foot screen. The "scope" lens would have been about 85 mm, and the 1.85:1 "flat" lens would be about 55 mm. Now put a wall across that wide auditorium. A 60 foot throw to the same large screen would require a 42 mm "scope" prime, and something close to 27 mm for "flat". With the 6000 watts needed to light even a moderate gain curved screen of that size, the heat-related "focus flutter" will probably be beyond the ability of those short lenses to hold focus well.

A few minutes trying various options with Schneider's Theatre Design Pro software will make the tradeoffs clear:
http://www.schneideroptics.com/theatre/desprodn.html

IscoOptic's free Cinema Lens Selector Software will tell the same story:
http://www.iscooptic.de/english.html

Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 02-28-2001, 04:46 AM:

As a rule, I simply will not go to any theater that has been split. Especially if I am paying to see a movie, I want a BIG auditorium. Take a look at Century's old dome theaters for the ultimate example of how to ruin a theatre- these were dome-shaped theaters that they just stuck a wall in the middle of to make 2 half-dome theaters!

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 02-28-2001, 03:48 PM:

John: Points well taken. My theatre has a 95' throw to a 30' wide screen. Many's the times I've WISHED we had an extra screen, but focus problems aside, it's a historic old building in really good shape and I would never think of twinning it, because the atmosphere would be ruined.

Posted by Scott D. Neff (Member # 185) on 02-28-2001, 08:29 PM:

I guess I just feel the need to defend Century... ::sigh:: (Damn employee loyalty)

Century HAS split some of their domes... I assume you're talking about those in Sacramento. But they have some GREAT examples of preserving the large screens. Let us not forget the Century Complex 5 in Pleasant Hill, where they created a 2nd lobby and wrapped 4 new screens around the original large dome.

Seriously though -- how would one go about splitting a HUUUGE round theatre?

Posted by Bob Maar (Member # 763) on 03-01-2001, 07:49 AM:

Scott Neff ask's "How would you split a hugh round theatre?"

I would divide it like you would cut a pie into eight slices. Using two of the slices as an entry way to the center core. The entry way to all auditoriums would be around the core. The Booth would be above the core with the screen curved to match the outer perimiter of the exterior walls.

The reason I am using two slices for the entry way is to give you enough room for Concession, restrooms, game room,boxoffice,
crowd control for your 6 screen complex.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 03-01-2001, 08:31 AM:

Bob:

A circular or polygon design with slice-shaped auditoriums and a central "core" is attractive. I would go a step further and have an exit hall between each auditorium in the "slices", to provide better sound isolation between auditoriums, and exits at the sides of each auditorium. The design has the advantage of a single compact projection room located over the central "core" lobby. It provides a large front wall for the screen, with the wedge-shaped auditorium putting most seats in the front half of the theatre, but allowing a longer throw to aid focus. The concept could be used for both stadium or conventional sloped floor designs, but I would prefer the latter.

AFAIK, doesn't Famous Players (Canada) use a circular/spiral design in some of their new theatres ?

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 03-01-2001, 09:30 AM:

Yes all the collesium projects are designed in that fashion. Also they are all THX and with Surround Ex on all screens

Posted by Evans A Criswell (Member # 381) on 03-01-2001, 10:42 AM:

The topic of theatre layout and design came up last year. Around that time, I did some drawings of layouts which can be seen at http://home.hiwaay.net/~criswell/theatre/images/th_designs/

The large round auditoirum that is split would be a lot like "Experimental Pod Design 3" with modifications to make the spaces between auditoriums become exit hallways. The whole point in the "pod" designs were to minimize sharing of walls between auditoriums, therefore minimizing sound leakage from one to the next. I'v seen several theatres built using pods, such as Huntsville's former University 6, as well as Cinema North and Cinema South in Nashville. For pictures of these theatres, go to http://home.hiwaay.net/~criswell/theatre/images/nashville/

I set these up a long time ago and forgot they were there.

Since I've never been in a really large old single-screen theatre, it is difficult for me to imagine a round auditorium so large that it could be split producing 6 or so smaller "pie slice" style auditoriums. But, if you think about it, if you want 6 40 foot screens, you need 240 feet of wall space, plus, say, 8 feet for each dividing wall, for a total of 288 feet circumference. But, you have to have a lobby and main entrance, so let's assume all that needs to be about as wide as an auditrorium, so multiply by 7/6. You get 336 feet circumference total. Remember that a circle's circumference is 2*pi*r, so the radius of this minimal circle is 53 and a half feet. That doesn't seem that big. I'd say a circular auditorium with a radius of 70 feet (you must have a booth in the middle) could be split like this. Each of the 6 resulting auditoriums would have about 55 foot throws to the 40 foot screens, if the booth were a circle with a 15 foot radius. The booth would need 6 projectors, which would each be 14 feet apart along the inside 94-foot wall of the circular booth (Is that doable?).

Evans

Posted by Andrew McCrea (Member # 674) on 03-01-2001, 06:33 PM:

Famous Players now has completely round theatres with 10 wedge shaped auditoriums called the Coliseum... so original! I would like to visit one, but have been told the nearest one is in Missisauga (where ever the hell that is!)

Anyways, for more info, http://www.famousplayers.com

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Andrew McCrea

"I'm Not Bad, I'm Just Drawn That Way!" - Jessica Rabbit

Posted by Scott D. Neff (Member # 185) on 03-01-2001, 07:25 PM:

I'll have to get some Cinedome pics sometime for y'all to look at. Those of you who haven't seen a Century Cinedome are really missing out.

They're nutty to say the least.