This is topic Firing employees who steal in forum Ground Level at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-16-2001, 04:51 PM:
 
The following was emailed to me by a registered Film-Tech member. The person does not want the theater or the employee's identity revealed for various reasons, but very much wants feedback from the other members. Here is the emailed post exactly as it was sent to me:

I had to fire an employee for theft. This employee was a trusted and valued member of the team and had been with us since we opened. I had made this person an Assistant Manager and trusted this person with the theatre while I was gone. I would have trusted this person with my car, house and even my money.

What was the scam?

The theatre's computerized ticketing system is very simple but it does have all the proper accounting and tracking features. Someone told me that this employee made a refund to the computer and then pocketed the refund. So I pulled all the transaction journals and started the audit. I noticed that most refunds were for one or two tickets and that there was the refund ticket in the bag like always. But on the shifts this Assistant Manager worked there were always a block of refunds like 6 or 10 to one film that didn’t correspond to any block of tickets sold. Also the refunded tickets weren’t in the bag. These refunds were done sometimes hours after that particular show had ended. If you added up the amount of tickets sold plus the refunded tickets, there were more than were in the bag.

On shifts where this Assistant Manager didn’t work, there were never any missing refunds. Also, there weren’t any blocks of refunds that didn’t correspond to a block of tickets punched out. And all refunds were done shortly after the tickets were punched out.

The total amount stolen for the first 15 days of the month is $450, which is roughly equal to this person’s hourly wages for the same period. I have not audited any farther back than this month. I’m not sure I want to know. If this has been going on since this person has been an Assistant Manager, then the theatre could be missing thousands of dollars.

It was sad and emotionally painful to have to fire someone that we had considered part of the family. But I did it swiftly as possible. This person was in last night verifying a print, while I was doing the audit. After the film ended at around 2 AM, I called this person in to the office, told them of the problem, I asked for an explanation and then took this person’s keys and told this person that they were fired. This person looked so pathetic, and claimed that I was mistaken that that this person had never ripped us off. And even begged for their job back if I discovered that I was wrong.

Now, I will check refunds after each rack of shows. And I will verify that the number of refunds matches the number on the hourly report for each day. Now the I have to cover a considerable number of shifts that this employee ran. So I am back on a 7-day workweek for the foreseeable future.

Stealing from the till and concession scams are the oldest tricks in the book. Have any of you had similar experiences? What are some of the scams you have heard of? Have you ever had to fire anyone like this? Have you ever called the cops on an employee that was stealing?


 


Posted by Steven Pickles (Member # 785) on 03-16-2001, 06:10 PM:
 
Brad,

I've heard of such a scam occuring on more than one occasion. With our theatre chain there are internal auditors who check and re-check every void and/or refund up against the receipts and files at the close of the business day. This is to obviously stop such theft from happening, but it does not always work. What I found happening was a group of assistants were making the safe "correct." Since money at the theatre was never handled by just one or two people per shift (a security flaw I've pointed out on more than one occasion) there sometimes tends to be a closing discrepancy from the start/mid-shift safe counts. This could be from manager error while giving out change or just theft by the management personnel. Anyhow, to make the safe even at the end of the night, they would get ahold of ticket stubs and refund the money back into the safe. One way of doing this would be to enter an auditorium and search for stubs while another is to simply ask for the stubs back while the patrons are exiting the theatre. Someone is getting the money and it isn't the theatre. It's an unfortunate situation... one that I don't care to hear about because I simply don't want to believe people actually do this. I've notified my superior and its up to them as to which direction to take it... if they're not bothered, then I will go on doing my own business of being honest and leave the dishonest to get what they deserve.
 


Posted by Jerry Chase (Member # 660) on 03-16-2001, 06:14 PM:
 
First, your assistant wasn't fired for theft, as you never caught him in the act. Your assistant was fired for lack of competence in handling receipts and tickets. Whether the person stole it or not is almost irrelevant to the termination process, but you open yourself wide open for a slander charge if you can't prove your theft charge.

The ticketing system I designed does not let you refund a ticket that is outside of the ticket series sold for the day, and the person doing the refunding has to log in with their password. Whether the logs are audited or not is up to the owner. You might want to consider upgrading your software to mine, and following my suggested security procedures. Usually, if there is one bad apple in a barrel, you'll find others. I won't rant why my system is better, because I don't think it appropriate to the forum, but it is a better tool for curtailing theft than most other systems. Email me atTheOgre@TheatreSupport.com if you want to know more about why it is superior.

Have I had similar situations? Sure. I've fired more cashiers, assistants, and managers than I care to recall. By following paperwork properly, I was usually able to nip most theft before it got beyond a few bucks. I won't post exact methods here, but by following figures and employee logs most theft can even be caught remotely.

One of the sadder times I had firing an assistant took place a number of years ago. This person was taking change money from the safe at odd hours, as well as little bits of cash from various cashiers, who were adament that they were not "short". The projectionist and I narrowed the field of suspects down, and when the assistant came into the booth and hid some money in their street clothes, the projectionist found it and we had the confrontation.

The person totally broke down when confronted with the irrefuatble evidence. As this assistant was the offspring of a cop from a neighboring town, I suggested use of the phone in my office to contact our police station and make a clean breast of it. The person did, got a light sentence and had to pay restitution, and then moved on with life to more honest pursuits. Most kids today would laugh at doing this, plead not-guilty and try to beat the rap.

When dealing with money, you cannot trust anyone. Period. It is a hard lesson, but one most of us learn it. I don't mean to be harsh, but if this much money walked away, you have been very lax in your cash control.

 


Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 03-17-2001, 12:34 AM:
 
Jerry said:
Usually, if there is one bad apple in a barrel, you'll find others.

Absolutely. In my experience, they will teach each other how to do it. For a good amount of time, I was the one called in to "clean up a mess" for the DM and have caught groups from 2 to 20 embezzling. From cashiers all the way up to general managers.

Ack. I'm glad I don't do that job anymore.

 


Posted by Jerry Chase (Member # 660) on 03-17-2001, 12:12 PM:
 
Adam, I feel your pain. While figuring out who is doing wrong is a challenge, the reality of having to confront and terminate sucks.

The theft rings last for at least a year, as well. Often the employees stealing are school age, they tell their friends, and those friends apply for work later, hoping to skim off a few bucks. It pays to have at least one employee who knows the cliques at the local school.

 


Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 03-18-2001, 11:46 AM:
 
You know you're having a fun time when it's necessary to call competing chain's DM and "strongly suggest" that she closely audit such-and-such theater, paying particular attention to this-and-that, because of "an event" at our theater, and the "involved parties" [under duress ] "gave certain suggestions" of who they learned from.

Oh, well, keep your enemies closer!

 


Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-18-2001, 04:16 PM:
 
I had a customer once that was playing Lion King and while the concession grosses were phenominal the ticket sales were not so good. He thought that strange and had a video security camera installed above the ticket window. The person was quickly caught and was brought into the office and shwon the tape. He was given the choice of the theater calling the police or paying back all monies taken. The persons parents were also called in regardless. The kid eventually confessed to steeling more than 16K in cash. What he did was to sell a group of people a single ticket, issue the group one ticket and pocket the rest of the money. The owner then installed a computerized ticketing system to help eliminate any of this type of rif raff in the future. The kid, did eventually pay back all of the stolen moneys as well.
Mark @ GTS
 
Posted by Bob Maar (Member # 763) on 03-19-2001, 09:43 AM:
 
I have a jaded view when it comes to employee honesty. I am probably one of the older members of Film-tech and have from my inception into this industry been aware of people dipping into the till for their own benefit. One usher I worked with when we were in high school was so brazen that he would actually let people in the exit door pulling them off the line and saying "Exact Change Only - This way in". He of course was caught but not before he let 50 people in at $2.00 a head. Yes that was in the 50's. Like others who have answered this post before me, I have dismissed, fired or just let resign literally hundreds of people. Some were easy, especially when caught red handed.
Jail terms from a year to 20 years depending on the severity. One employee was charged with attempted murder after he knocked the manager on the head with a pipe as he was at the night depository. Some were clever, some were not but they all were thieves and they all got what they deserve. To the young people coming into the industry today, remember, you have to look at yourself in the mirror every morning. "To thine own self be true." Shakespeare.
 
Posted by Betsie Beadling (Member # 591) on 03-19-2001, 10:37 AM:
 
Good Lord!!!
Was/is the Manager ok now???

------------------

 


Posted by Manuel Francisco Valencia (Member # 710) on 03-19-2001, 05:56 PM:
 
It all boils down to who is intelligent and who is not. Are you smart enough to catch a scam in the act? Are your employees clever enough to pull it off?
Dang!
Got to run right now. I'll post more later!
 
Posted by Mike Spaeth (Member # 524) on 03-21-2001, 05:11 AM:
 
If someone is caught in theft w/o concrete evidence, you can always use the "Best Interest of <insert company name here>" speech. Works like a charm.
 
Posted by Robb Johnston (Member # 239) on 03-21-2001, 07:56 PM:
 
I have seen a bunch of scams at the theatres I have worked at. I helped bust a ring of exit door admiting Ushers. It was a 2 building complex and I spent a few saturday nights on the roof with a cam corder.

Another was a Concessionist, who was a math genius and would give customers acurate totals, but would only ring in about a quarter of the merchandise, and pocket the rest. Again caught on film.

At the same theatre, there was a long running scam where with a few exceptions only student tickets were printed up, but the appropriate monies were collected. I am poroud to say that as an usher I busted the scam when a group of 4 older patrons handed me student tickets.

And the list goes on and on . . .
 


Posted by Jim Ziegler (Member # 86) on 03-24-2001, 01:05 PM:
 
Of all the places I have worked, Theatres seem to have more theft problems. One of the biggest reasons, in my opinion, as that the staffing needs of most theatres are so great, and the amount of payroll is so limited, that the theatres are forced to hire anyone who breathes.

For example, my theatre hires for around $6.00 an hour for floor positions. Compared to most theatres, thats pretty good... However, the sporting goods store next to us hires at $7.50... The Arbys down the street hires at $9.00. With those differences, it becomes very hard to get employees, and we end up, frequently, hiring people that the other places wouldn't...

For example, at the end of last summer wewere short on concessionists.. Since we were not getting many good applicants, the concession manager basically started hiring anyone with a pulse... Concession shortages went as high at 10% of sales.

Now, we have stopped hiring everyone with a pulse (and are extremely short staffed)... Concession shortages are around one third of one percent now.. Concession lines on a Saturday night, however, frequently have a 30 minitue wait.. (and per caps are off as much as 40 cents).


 


Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-25-2001, 12:38 PM:
 
I recently installed a new theatre to people that are brand new to the theatre business. One of the things I made sure to point out was to watch out for your "silent partners!"

They didn't believe in such a small townt that such a thing could happen....(I'm sure as time goes, they will learn).

I feel the issue is a good part of being a CASH business...as credit cards become more common place it will be harder to "pocket" the money.

In the 80s, the company I worked for had contests for the patrons on their popcorn cups/tubs...there was a pull tab and if you won you got some passes or concessions or something...the real goal behind it was not customer good-will (god forbid!) but to get the customers in on the act of damaging the popcorn containers so they couldn't be resold. I mean, why pay your employees to do such a thing when customers will do it for you! ;-)

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
 


Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 03-25-2001, 05:31 PM:
 
Our theater hired a young lady for concession stand duties. Her resume indicated she was in college studying law enforcement.

She was caught red-handed with her fingers in the cash drawer. Basically, what she did was ring up the sale, put the money in the drawer, and when nobody was looking (so she thought) she voided the sale and took the money out of the drawer and put it in her pocket.

Because of her resume, we were shocked! But actually, if you ask yourself, "What is the best way to beat the system", you will probably find the answer is to study the system to see how it works.

Naturally, she was fired on the spot!
 


Posted by Jim Ziegler (Member # 86) on 03-26-2001, 04:10 AM:
 
You should have had her prosecuted. That would have prevented her from becoming a police officer in the future..
 
Posted by Michael Hunt (Member # 772) on 03-26-2001, 12:26 PM:
 
We had a similar situation at our cinema over a year ago.

One of the Box Office manageresses (we have two) had taken to borrowing money from the till for lunch, and paying it back when she returned from lunch having got money out of the bank whilst at lunch.
Because she was doing this, it encouraged the other Box Office staff to do the same.

At a three monthly cash audit of the Box Office by our external auditors, the petty cash float was found to be down, as was the float for the Box Office.

As the Box office was understaffed, the excuse was used that there were a lot of ticket refunds unaccounted for for a three week run of a Pantomime at a local community theatre that our Cinema printed tickets for, and also provided a City Centre & Telephone Box Office for.

The auditors weren't happy with this, and wanted all sales to be reconciled before their next visit. They also suggested that Petty Cash be handled in future by my department (Building Operations) as we were the major users of it. I think at this time it was suspected that someone in the Box Office was stealing.

Anyway, about a month before the next audit was due, two of the Box Office assistants informally reported to our administrator that they thought money was going missing from the till. Refunds had been attributed to their shift, and yet they had not made any refunds.
All Box Office staff were reminded of the forthcoming audit, and told informally that if they had borrowed any money from the till in the past, that they were not to do so in future.

Anyway, I'm screening the last night of Almondovar's 'All about my Mother' to about a third full house on a Sunday night, finish the screening, break the film down, and start two days off. When I return on the Wednesday afternoon I am asked by our Administrator if there was a problem with the Film on the Sunday - not that I know of I reply, and tell her that some of the staff were in watching that screening, and had complimented it in the Centre's Bar.
It turns out that all of the tickets for this screening had been refunded, as a result of technical difficulties with the film and projection equipment - but that this was done on the following Tuesday, when the Box Office Manageress was working.
Now we have a computerised box office system, so were able to trace who the tickets had allegedly been refunded to, after a couple of calls to customers asking if they had enjoyed the film, and would they be interested in joining our frequent attender scheme 'Screensaver' we discovered that it appeared that no customer had received a refund, which suggested that it had to be a member of staff.
As it appeared to be the Box Office Manageress, she was called into the office, and suspended on full pay whilst further investigations continued.
Two weeks later she was due to be interviewed by the investigating panel, but was too ill to attend - she had had a breakdown.
It was three months before she was fit to be questioned by the panel - and then unable to remember her actions. She was given a written warning, and permitted to return to work, but not at our premises - she was to be redeployed elsewhere in the organisation, but no other department would take her, so she resigned.

The auditors would not report how much they thought had gone astray, and in view of the persons breakdown decided that it would not be appropriate at this late stage to prosecute.
 


Posted by Jerry Chase (Member # 660) on 03-26-2001, 12:50 PM:
 
Paul, I've seen the connection between someone interested in law enforcement and that same person stealing too many times. I'm convinced that many are drawn into law enforcement careers because they want to be above the law or because they want be able to bully people around and exert power they would never have otherwise.

When I was managing, if someone put "studying to be a police officer" on a job application, red rockets and bells went off in my mind, and that person was usually steered to a non-cash job until I could get a better feel for their character.

At one theatre where we had a back door entrance problem, we found from an undercover operative that the guard from the security company was the ringleader of the group of thieves. The owner of the security company was not pleased. I won't go into the details of the time that I strongly suspected an undercover operative of stealing...

 


Posted by Paul Goulet (Member # 297) on 03-26-2001, 12:51 PM:
 
Sorry Michael.. I HAVE to ask..Is that your Real name .. Michael Hunt.. Ever see the movie PORKY'S??

Paul Goulet
 


Posted by Jason Black (Member # 684) on 12-22-2002, 03:16 PM:
 
At this time of the year, when cash flows are great, this topic deserved to be bumped..
 
Posted by Christopher Duvall (Member # 284) on 12-23-2002, 12:40 AM:
 
I just recently had to deal with a box office scam. As usual, the employees were caught and swiftly terminated. However, this time around it was the most heartbreaking experience I had to go through. The ring of 6 employees busted, half of them were my best floor supervisors that I was considering for management. A good portion of the scams and thefts I have cleaned up over the years have had this in common. It always hurts when you have to fire what you think are your best employees and managers for dipping in the till.

However, everyonce in a while you have that one idiot that comes along that makes it all right. It will be that one employee that just grates your nerve like a cheese grater on the back of your thigh that royaly tries make off with the cookie jar but just screws up. Unfortunately, I cannot do this anymore due to the policies in place, but I used to make examples of said idiots through public firings and/or arrests at staff meetings.

I could go on and on about this topic, but more often that not, I have been emotionally beat down. However, that last 2 years in Vegas, I have become more callous to these events. It seems that somebody is always waiting in the wings with knife with your name on it.
 
Posted by Tony Ratcliff (Member # 1196) on 12-23-2002, 11:10 AM:
 
When I was in high school working at a drive-in, there were a couple of kids who worked the box office who had ticket-stub scamming down to an art. Since they sold AND tore the ticket as well, all they did was not give the customer their stub, then "sell" the stub to the next customer and not ring up a new ticket for them.
They made hundreds a night.
The saddest part is that the manager knew about it, but didn't do anything. The attendance numbers were still so high at that time that the district office never noticed, as far as I know.
I imagine that the concession PC was outstanding because of this - which was a feather in the manager's cap. So I guess that is why he never did anything about it.
 
Posted by Joshua Lott (Member # 240) on 12-23-2002, 03:39 PM:
 
I have dealt with this in the past more times then I want to count. I have had several of the people responsible arrested for theft. Also what is worse is when the thieves start scamming the credit cards as well.

But in Feb of this 2002 I was held up at gun point after hours by a former employee. The 4 people responsible for this each ended up with 5 years in jail and 2 suspended. One of them is facing an additional 4-10 years for purjery(sp?).
 
Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 12-24-2002, 02:42 PM:
 
The one and only time I was a manager was in a drive-in for Chakeres. This theatre had lost money for 7-8 years because of dishonest managers, so I was anxious to get in there and make it turn a profit.

Most of the staff were faithful return employees -- some had been there several years. The concession manager, who I knew when I was the projectionist at this theatre in the 70s, had been there for 18 years. I only had to hire one or two new employees for the start of the '89 season.

The first several weeks went great. I'd stopped the flow of stowaways and fence cutters, who'd been so used to having free reign to sneak into the theatre for so long, that there were more people coming in the back and inside trunks than at the boxoffice. (Calling the police and pressing charges every time you find someone sneaking in soon sends the message that you do not see it as a joke or game.)

Shortages were nil, and everything balanced perfectly. The concession made money. The owner and GM of the circuit congratulated me on being the first to turn a profit at this location in years. I got a bonus. It was too perfect.

Suddenly, the weekly inventory started coming up short. I met with my concession manager to discuss the situation, and I asked her to keep an eye on the register, in case the cashier was being dishonest. After a week, she saw nothing and we still came up short. Then, I put her on the register full-time for the next week and that week it came out perfectly.

After taking my concession manager off the register and putting the cashiers back on, it started coming up short again. I began taking nightly inventories to try and find a pattern: who was on the register, what menu item price the discrepancy was a multiple of (in case of simple error), etc. The nightly inventories showed no shortages and, of course, that week balanced out, too.

Every time I started to zero-in on something, it would balance out. Then, as suddenly as the problem popped up, it disappeared. The rest of the season went without a hitch and there were no more shortages.

Later, it dawned on me (just like Columbo): it was the concession manager! I remembered dropping by the theatre one afternoon to do something in the office. As I was there, the concession manager (who, along with her husband, also cleaned the theatre) walked by and picked up an odd popcorn cup from the top of a refrigerator, saying something like "I meant to throw that away, somebody left it outside the door here." For a split second, I remember thinking it was odd for her to say that, I hadn't even noticed it sitting up there. She'd always done a good job of cleaning and had been there for years, I trusted her. But I didn't put two and two together.

What she was doing was picking up (mostly) clean large popcorn cups from the field, putting them in the inventory to be resold, and pocketing the money when she gave the cashier a break. The shortages occurred when she would remove too much money from the till.

I took another job after that, but I saw this lady several years later and asked her why, especially since we'd known each other for so long. Without me saying how I knew, she apologized. She said she was in financial trouble and felt it necessary to do something, but then she stopped when she saw it was casting me in an unfavorable light with the company.

The MORAL OF THE STORY: never have the same people who clean your theatre also work your concession!

It's ironic, the GM had told me this very thing when I came on board. "NEVER have your janitor work the concession." I politely asked him, then, would he prefer I remove this lady from the concession job or janitorial position. He said, "Oh no, she's been here for 18 years, we trust her."
 
Posted by Michael Gonzalez (Member # 593) on 12-24-2002, 02:58 PM:
 
Wow reselling old pop and popcorn tubs. Thats pretty gross.
 
Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 12-24-2002, 04:19 PM:
 
Floor staff stealing food can be a problem. My ex-employeer experienced concession employees making extra food (hot dogs) and the like...so that they could scam it off when closing. New company policy was that no "extra food" was to be given away at the end of the night. Extra would be counted as scrap and tossed out! Popcorn was another deal....every night several huge trash bags of popcorn would be tossed out!
 
Posted by Mike Babb (Member # 1379) on 12-24-2002, 05:58 PM:
 
In my experience, more often than not, a "trusted employee" is the one who ends up being the culprit. Newer managers tend to suspect the "bad" employees with the poor attitudes. I talk them out of it. While this can be true, I think that thieves who are getting away with it are being WELL PAID for their efforts and can in many cases be motivated to do a better job. Unfortunately this can also lead to more trust and more responsibilities and more opportunities to steal. One of our most recent cases involved a person who should have been helping to catch the thief and ended up being the thief...
 
Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 12-25-2002, 03:00 PM:
 
Question: In the US, when you terminate an employee`s contract, do you have to give a specific reason to do so? I am asking because I have been told that in the US, it is "employment at will" and so a contract can be more easily terminated than over here, where you have to give very specific and provable reasons after an initial trial period of 6 months, during which the employment can be ended any time with 2 weeks notice without giving a reason.
 
Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 12-25-2002, 03:43 PM:
 
All states (except Montana) recognize at-will employment, that is, that an employee is hired at-will and that employment can be terminated at the will of either party. This applies to managers, supervisors, staff... all employees.

LABOR CODE
SECTION 2920-2929

2920. Every employment is terminated by any of the following:
(a) Expiration of its appointed term.
(b) Extinction of its subject.
(c) Death of the employee.
(d) The employee's legal incapacity to act as such.

2921. Every employment in which the power of the employee is not
coupled with an interest in its subject is terminated by notice to
the employee of either of the following:
(a) The death of the employer.
(b) The legal incapacity of the employer to contract.

2922. An employment, having no specified term, may be terminated at
the will of either party on notice to the other. Employment for a
specified term means an employment for a period greater than one
month.

2923. An employee, unless the term of his service has expired or
unless he has a right to discontinue it at any time without notice,
shall continue his service after notice of the death or incapacity of
his employer, so far as is necessary to protect from serious injury
the interests of the employer's successor in interest, until a
reasonable time after notice of the facts has been communicated to
such successor. The successor shall compensate the employee for such
service according to the terms of the contract of employment.

2924. An employment for a specified term may be terminated at any
time by the employer in case of any willful breach of duty by the
employee in the course of his employment, or in case of his habitual
neglect of his duty or continued incapacity to perform it.

2925. An employment for a specified term may be terminated by the
employee at any time in case of any wilful or permanent breach of the
obligations of his employer to him as an employee.

2926. An employee who is not employed for a specified term and who
is dismissed by his employer is entitled to compensation for services
rendered up to the time of such dismissal.

2927. An employee who is not employed for a specified term and who
quits the service of his employer is entitled to compensation for
services rendered up to the time of such quitting.

2928. No deduction from the wages of an employee on account of his
coming late to work shall be made in excess of the proportionate wage
which would have been earned during the time actually lost, but for
a loss of time less than thirty minutes, a half hour's wage may be
deducted.
 
Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 12-25-2002, 03:49 PM:
 
You should give a specific reason and keep meticulous records because an ex employee can go and seek unemployment.

Unemployment Insurance is for workers who are laid off due to lack of work. It is not meant to pay money to workers who are fired for cause. We soft-peddled the reason we fired an employee because we didn't want to sabotage his ability to be hired somewhere else. He was a good kid who made a mistake. He then turned around and filed for unemployment and got it. That's the last time. From now one, I tell the truth. By being nice, it cost the company $1,000. This guy was rewarded with $3,000 for doing the wrong thing.
 
Posted by Daniel Boisson (Member # 1027) on 12-25-2002, 04:36 PM:
 
At my theatre, EVERYTHING is counted at close, including the candy and cups. At one point a while ago, the theatre that the owner managed even weighed the bulk candy nightly. Plus, everything in the cage is counted nightly, and locked after counting, even if we didn't need to restock the counter.

Furthermore, the owner has an auditor that works for him randomly check one of the 4 theatres every few weeks.

I think the only major problem with steeling at my theatre was with a manager reselling tickets and pocketing the money, she was found out after about week...
 
Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 12-25-2002, 05:48 PM:
 
Thanks, Ian, for the detailed input. It is quite interesting. Here in Germany, everyone is entitled to unemployment insurance if he loses his job and it is not his fault. If it is his fault (because he has given a reason to get fired, such as stealing, or if he quit himself), he has to wait for 3 months to get unemployment benefits. Every employee has to pay into the unemployment insurance from his salary.
Is that the same in the US or can you chose if you want to insure yourself against unemployment?
Another question is, on page 1 of this discussion, Jerry Chase wrote "but you open yourself wide open for a slander charge if you can't prove your theft charge." So I guess, while employment in the US is "at will", and termination of the contract does not require that specific reasons are given, an employer should always make sure that he has good provable reasons so that he might not become the target of charges from the ex-employee?
 
Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 12-25-2002, 05:59 PM:
 
It's exactly the same here.
 
Posted by Michael Gonzalez (Member # 593) on 12-25-2002, 06:31 PM:
 
The most important thing that you can do is keep detailed employee records. I try to make sure that EVERY policy violation is recorded and placed in the employee's respected folder not just the major ones. So they can be written up, not just for things such as drawer variances, but violations such as showing up ten minutes late for work or running out of stock in the middle of a set. The biggest reason that I had started this policy a couple of years back is because I was tired of firing employees and then having their mommy call and wonder how I could have possiable have firied their little angel. And the problem would be that dispite the fact that little Johnny was always late and messing up, I would be able, off the top of my head over the phone, to remember just when or how often their spoiled brat kid broke the rules. Now I simply have to walk over to the file drawer, pull their employee file, and be able to name all the times (day and dates) that their kid broke the rules and why, whatever the last violation, was the last straw. That shuts the parent up real quick. It is very imporaint that you document your employees performance (both the bad and good) and that you stay consistent about it.
 
Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 12-26-2002, 07:48 AM:
 
Thought for the day: In every police station house, all the lockers have locks on them. [Eek!]

Frank
 
Posted by Bob Maar (Member # 763) on 12-26-2002, 09:55 AM:
 
Frank, That is because some cops have Law Degrees.... [Smile] and we all know lawyers are the bottom of the barrel. [Roll Eyes]
 
Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 12-26-2002, 11:16 AM:
 
Lawyers always get me with their attitude that they are beyond reproach; that it's a dignified profession!

That's like the truck driver who rides 36" from your bumper at 70 miles an hour, with a sign on his trailer proclaiming how safe he is!
 
Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 12-27-2002, 12:42 AM:
 
In the US the employer pays for unemployment insurance; there is no deduction to the employee's pay. There is both state and federal to pay although the actual insurance claims and payments are made by units of state government. Insurance coverage is mandatory, at least in my state.
 
Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 12-27-2002, 09:17 AM:
 
Well, maybe the employer pays into the insurance, but it is effectively the same if it works like this or if the employee has to pay for it. The employer simply sees the total of costs for salary and insurance, and that is what the employee costs him.
 
Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 12-27-2002, 06:06 PM:
 
My own state unemployment rate was set at the maximum because I was a new business. Now that I have a track record (no claims in 2.5 years) it will drop substantially for 2003. That reduces my costs and in theory could influence my decisions regarding pay increases.

BUT if it was purely a payroll deduction paid only by the employee (like income tax withholding but unlike our Social Security pension and Medicare programs which are both deducted from employee pay AND matched by the employer) then I would be completely indifferent to a rise or fall in the rates as it would have no affect on my costs. So yes it does make a difference.
 
Posted by Barry Martin (Member # 1376) on 12-28-2002, 08:25 PM:
 
At my theater we had several stealing scams. One involved our coffee bar where an employee would leave tips out on the register and when taking orders would just ring the item in so the total showed, then make change for the person out of the tips, pocket the money, and delete the order after they left. There were a few people involved in that one and it was pretty easy since the coffee bar only required one person to run it at most times and was so far off in the corner nobody would ever notice. We caught on because of how little money the coffee bar was actually making, not that it was ever a great profit center.

Ticket scams were the most common. Sell them a child, charge them for an adult, sell them a stub from a previous show (you wouldn't believe how many ticket-takers were lazy enough not to check the stubs especially the auditorium number and time), and the best involved two supervisors, one at box office the other working the ticket-taking. Sell the ticket, ticket-taker pockets it, refunds it later, they split it. [Mad]

The one thing that pissed me off royally actually involved another theater stealing from mine. There is a "second-run" about 5 minutes away from the theater I worked at. When we had movies that were being broken down on Thursday night and just going over there Friday morning we made an arrangement to just clamp the film at my theater, have someone from the second-run come over and pick it up, bring back the clamps, center ring, and trailers the next day. Well, a couple times the trailer programs came back missing trailers. We noticed because when building a trailer program we actually would write up a list of the trailers on that program with the accurate running times. The movie trailers I probably wouldn't have cared about as we always had plenty unless it was a very small release. However, they stole policy trailers too which at the time we were having a hard time getting corporate to send us more (50 bucks for the corporate logo and 50 bucks for the "exit" times 20 screens and 2 formats...not cheap) to replace the ones we had had for over 2 years. We didn't know who was doing it at that theater, so we didn't accuse anyone. We did cut off the exchange program for a while though and of course the problem disappeared.

The interesting part was when the former projectionist from that theater came to work for our theater as a manager and actually told me that he had stolen the trailers and that he had at least one from every theater he worked at. I actually saw this collection once when he left it in the booth after using it to train some supervisors. If there is one thing worse than a liar in my book it's a thief, especially when that thief is supposed to be trustworthy enough to be a manager.

In my experience though, whether they are caught or not life always gets these people in some way or another, it just takes a little longer. [thumbsup]
 
Posted by Rachel Carter (Member # 693) on 12-29-2002, 12:39 AM:
 
Barry,
Before you accuse people of stealing you may want to check on all the facts. The policy trailers were infact not stolen by this person you are talking about...3 trailers, from the theatres he used to work at (the theater you worked at, the discount theater across the street, and the discount theater close by) were all given to him by other managers at the time that he worked at those places. The other trailer was shipped with a print, he contacted the theater (from Ohio) and they told him to keep the trailer because they didn't want to bother with it. You really should not accuse people of stealing unless you know the facts. My discount theater and the theater that you "used" to work at work very close together, sharing items when needed and helping each other out. As far as I know, at no time did the theater you used to work at stop sharing prints.
 
Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 12-29-2002, 01:25 AM:
 
Absolutely childish and pathetic...

oddly enough that managers trailer program disapeared that night he left it in the booth and was never seen again...

You know whats worse than someone who lies, or steals?

Someone who steals and lies.
 
Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 12-29-2002, 09:23 AM:
 
At a theater I worked at, we had an older woman working the box office. (Bob Marr may remember this.) She worked there for many years. Managers would often comment how good she was, saying that the box office count was always "perfect." In fact, apparently she was "perfect" every day she worked, not a penney over or under, - for several years. Of course, she was finally found out. The little "kicker" to the story was her husband was the electrical inspector for the city.

A side note about the electrical inspector; We had installed a large power contactor to turn the booth equipment on/off with a timer. We set things up to "automatically" dress the house early for patrons who arrive very early (some like to sit and read the paper until the show starts.) This inspector looks at the contactor, then tells us we have to install a huge "Frankenstein" knife switch also.
 
Posted by Barry Martin (Member # 1376) on 12-29-2002, 09:48 AM:
 
quote:
Before you accuse people of stealing you may want to check on all the facts.
Kay, here goes (though it's mostly repetition since I already backed up my facts with personal knowledge).

quote:
The policy trailers were infact not stolen by this person you are talking about
I never named a person, theater, or date, so I'm not sure how you could be certain we are talking about the same person. I do know you were either not at HH at the time or at least not a manager because I knew all the managers at the time (most of them having come from my theater or the same chain at least) and I asked them about the missing trailers, of which they had no knowledge of course.

quote:
3 trailers, from the theatres he used to work at (the theater you worked at, the discount theater across the street, and the discount theater close by) were all given to him by other managers at the time that he worked at those places. The other trailer was shipped with a print, he contacted the theater (from Ohio) and they told him to keep the trailer because they didn't want to bother with it.
I only said my trailers were stolen, since I was unsure of the methods he came by the others. I simply quoted what they said to me in a conversation revolving my missing trailers, which included boasting about the other trailers.

quote:
You really should not accuse people of stealing unless you know the facts.
I agree, and I didn't accuse anyone. There was a thread listed on the topic of theft, I replied with the three stories I had from PERSONAL, not second-hand experience. There are plenty more I have heard about, but I don't know the facts in those circumstances so I didn't list them. Hell, with my work in an electronics store I could go on for PAGES on theft, it happens everyday there and statistically speaking 60-70% of the time it is internal theft.

quote:
As far as I know, at no time did the theater you used to work at stop sharing prints.
Again, personal experience and I don't think you were there at the time in question Rachel. I know this happened at that theater and that we stopped the swapping because I closed every Thursday night since May of 1999 and opened 9 out of 10 Friday mornings since that time, including the ones during the time I am referring to in my above post. As I said above, I couldn't know who had taken them once they left my theater so I didn't name names, just asked my friends who were managers at HH. It was the person in question TELLING me he had taken the trailers from us that provided the identity of the thief. Otherwise the story would have read "Trailers went missing in transit, maybe stolen, can't be sure."

As for where the trailers went after I found them in my booth, I did what any good employee should do and brought the theft to attention by turning the trailers over to upper management and telling the same story I told above. They already knew about the trailers going missing from the other theater because we told them to stop the trading when we noticed. I always assumed the manager got off the hook with a warning, but it sounds more like he never got talked to at all which doesn't surprise me considering what they needed him for.

If my word isn't good enough, there is a projectionist who used to work Friday mornings with me that could back up my story, not that it should be necessary as no one is on trial here. That's all I can think of to add for now, sorry if my first post wasn't detailed enough, but I thought I got the important stuff in.
 
Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 12-29-2002, 10:45 AM:
 
Out of the thirty or so Movie Theatres I have worked at - I have caught someone stealing in every single one of them. I have seen 'all the scams' and had to fire assistant managers who 'were my best' - etc.etc.

I think the biggest lesson I have learned - is that money makes people do things they normally wouldn't do. Greed IS one of the seven deadly sins. That is why no-one is to be trusted at anytime -anywhere.
Putting in a security system with cameras and recorders should never be questioned when opening a new theatre.
 
Posted by Rachel Gilardi (Member # 1016) on 12-29-2002, 03:45 PM:
 
Barry,

quote:
I never named a person, theater, or date, so I'm not sure how you could be certain we are talking about the same person. .
I think we both know who are you talking about, old projectionist from the discount across the street, went over to work at your "old" theater as a manager...correct me if I'm wrong, but you two don't get along very well do you?

quote:
I do know you were either not at HH at the time or at least not a manager because I knew all the managers at the time (most of them having come from my theater or the same chain at least) and I asked them about the missing trailers, of which they had no knowledge of course.
Thankyou for naming your theater.

I can vouch for how he receieved all the policy's except the one from Ohio (I was only told that story). I have talked with a manager that was present when the trailer was given to him at your old theater, I have talked to a manager that gave it to him at my theater, and spoke with the manager that gave him the trailer from the other theater he worked at. Each time he "asked" for permission to have them because he collects them. As far as the Ohio one...just taking his word for it.

I think the way you stated your first post was very inappropriate.

You say you didn't accuse anyone of stealing but you did!
quote:
I agree, and I didn't accuse anyone.
You not only accused a person of stealing (which he did not) but you also accused another local theater of stealing (which you have no proof of, just a guess...right?). You really shouldn't go around blowing of steam because you do not like someone

This is definatly a quote of accusation:
quote:
The one thing that pissed me off royally actually involved another theater stealing from mine. There is a "second-run" about 5 minutes away from the theater I worked at.
Also an accusation:
quote:
The movie trailers I probably wouldn't have cared about as we always had plenty unless it was a very small release. However, they stole policy trailers too which at the time we were having a hard time getting corporate to send us more (50 bucks for the corporate logo and 50 bucks for the "exit" times 20 screens and 2 formats...not cheap) to replace the ones we had had for over 2 years.
quote:
The interesting part was when the former projectionist from that theater came to work for our theater as a manager and actually told me that he had stolen the trailers and that he had at least one from every theater he worked at.
I wasn't there for this one, but I was told that this is made up. Considering I know he did not steal the policy's from my own experience and the two of you never got along...why would he ever say this to you?

quote:
Again, personal experience and I don't think you were there at the time in question Rachel. I know this happened at that theater and that we stopped the swapping because I closed every Thursday night since May of 1999 and opened 9 out of 10 Friday mornings since that time, including the ones during the time I am referring to in my above post.
Though I was not here at the time you say the exchanges were cancelled I am looking into it. I have already found notes saying to pick up a print at your old theater in June '99. How long did you say the exchange stopped?
 
Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 12-29-2002, 11:45 PM:
 
Maybe this could go to private email? [Confused]

--jhawk
 
Posted by Jason Black (Member # 684) on 12-30-2002, 12:07 AM:
 
Yes, please.. take the pissing contest off line....Altho I must admit to finding a bit of humor there.. all about simple trailers...

Anyway... [Roll Eyes]
 
Posted by Rachel Gilardi (Member # 1016) on 12-30-2002, 12:37 AM:
 
Sorry but it bothers me when people make stuff up, especially when it is about one of my friends. [thumbsup]
 
Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 12-30-2002, 06:31 AM:
 
Jason and JHawk...

If someone made an accusation about you publicly wouldn't you want to have yourself defended publicly so that people do not believe the accusation?

I really dont care what Mr. Martin has to say. I just do not like bieng labeled a thief. He is obviously disgruntled. He had no interest in this forum before and now that he no longer holds a projectionist position he suddenly feels the need to join and add nothing but attacks on the company that I work for and attacks against myself. So I really do not care.

I appreciate what Rachel has done for me coming to my aid and stating the truth, but i will not get into a "pissing contest" with him. I often find that it is best to ignore people like this.

and also anyone reading this forum who is in the business in this area would know it was me he is referring to as I am the only person who has worked as a projectionist at the Hits and as a manager at Loews. If I have ever used any of Mr. Martins behavior as an example of anything I have always been careful to state that it was hypothetical and not intended to portray a specific person (I am above that type of behavior.) Mr. Martin decided to not be so polite and to engage in a personal attak against me which is a violation of the FAQ.

Now to back to my second season simpons DVD [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Dave Williams (Member # 299) on 12-30-2002, 05:20 PM:
 
Theft is a given in any industry. How we deal with theft, is at least as important as how we deal with life. Oh wait, wasn't that star trek 2?

You have to have a zero tolerance policy. I was fired for selling my own candy instead of the company purchased items and pocketing the money. Well that is how they tried to justify why the percapitas were so low.

Maybe it was just real low percapitas.. for a dollar theater, a percapita of $1.43 is pretty decent. They really expected a percapita of about $3.40. No kidding. They had another dollar theater at the time that pulled that kind of percapita. That is until I took a look at the books and found that they had the formula so mixed up that it calculated EVERY SET at $3.40 percapita. Turns out it was really at $1.25.

So if you have employees that are stealing, make sure your math is correct.

Dave
 
Posted by Barry Martin (Member # 1376) on 12-30-2002, 07:23 PM:
 
I am going to say one last thing about my post and then hope that this gets dropped or even better moved to email. I am only replying because of the unfavorable things being said about me now and want to clear it up. I originally posted those three stories to contribute to this discussion. I knew that Sean and probably you, Rachel would know who I was talking about but probably nobody else. There were variables that could have left doubt as to who I was talking about. I had been pondering posting these stories since the topic was bumped a week ago but it was another forum member's posting about being censored which made me actually go through with it. I realized that if I didn't post it, I was just censoring myself because someone might not like it.

I posted with facts that I could back up from my experience, not relying on what anyone else said. It's true Sean and I do not get along, however that is not how it started out. The conversation I quoted took place maybe one week into his working with us, when we were still on good terms. Conversation was always pleasant inlcuding when he would pick up the prints to bring them to the discount. Perhaps my grammar usage was incorrect but I maintain I did not accuse "any-ONE". I did indicate it was the theater because what, did the trailers fall off in the parking lot? They were on when the print left my booth, not there when I broke apart the program when they were returned to me the next morning.

quote:
I wasn't there for this one, but I was told that this is made up. Considering I know he did not steal the policy's from my own experience and the two of you never got along...why would he ever say this to you?
Often conversations that involved two people in a private place are so easily forgotten, especially when dealing with something this shady. However, I can recall the exact location and telling the conversation to others, so I'm pretty sure I'm not making it up or hallucinating it out of rage and desire to do someone harm. I lost my employment over 6 months ago, I was long over it since at least August. In fact, I'm about 10 times better off being away from that job considering what it looks like they are going to end up with.

As for my interest in this Forum, it is only tied with two things: My love of discussion (there are 3 other Forums I participate in regularly) and my enjoyment of films/the exhibition profession. I was here before my work troubles, and I plan on being here long after. I actually registered and started posting shortly after my loss of employment because I no longer had my connection with projection (rhyme not intended, but still amusing) and was unsure how long I would be out of practice. I post to what I can, which usually doesn't involve the technical question threads because I have only dealt with one type of equipment other than threading up. I actually had no idea he even posted here until you mentioned him when I was asking about others' experiences with Unions compared to the trouble I was having.

The point is, I had a story to share, to contribute like everyone else does here and I did. If I was really bent on destroying someone I could have named everything from the get go and thrown in hate comments to boot. Instead I made several edits to my post before submitting it and took great care to exclude any identifying information while keeping the facts necessary to the story. This digging in to me for questioning someone's integrity does seem a bit hipocrytical when trying to tear down mine by saying I've lied and stolen with no fact to base it on. It might have been better to email me to begin with and ask for an explanation of my story before outright accusing me of ignorance and exaggeration.

If there is any question left, I would just as soon have it left to email as the others have suggested and hope the discussion here can stay on topic.
 
Posted by Jim Alexander (Member # 226) on 01-10-2003, 10:25 PM:
 
Well guys...here I thought we had a group of employees that were honest and forthright. Tonight I found out different.

In the past when ever we have suspected theft, we were fortunate (or unfortunate; depending on your veiw) to have the suspected empoyee leave before they were caught. It hasn't happened often and its never amounted to much, but is has happened. Over the past week or so, we started noticing "odd" happenings with the floats and deposits. They weren't balancing correctly. So we set up our cameras and hit the record button...

About a month ago, a friend asked if we would look at hiring a single mother of two, who was on welfare. Since he vouched for her, and in the goodness of our heart, we hired her.

Tonights tape showed us that she is not as honest as we were lead to believe. While she was balancing her box office cash, she thought she was $20 over... to our amazement, she pocketed it. About ten minutes later, she must have found her mistake, cause she took the money out of her pocket and put it back into the deposit. Did she steal...no. does she have the potential to... I would think so. Since I don't want to accuse her until I have proof, her next shift I am going to set up the cash to make it look like there is a $15 overage and see what happens. My bet is on her taking it. At least this is what I'm thinking of doing.

Question is, should she be given leniency considering she is a single mother on welfare; or should we turn it over to the police? She will loose her job over it, but does she need to be dragged through the courts? So far, from what we have been able to piece together, she has taken almost $100 in the past week, but we have no proof of it being her that took it... only suspicion.

I don't mind saying we feel like our good will has been slapped in our face and we are pritty angry about it.
 
Posted by Jason Black (Member # 684) on 01-10-2003, 11:57 PM:
 
Jim,

IMO, I woul dbe careful about setting someone up. If you go this route, make sure there is someone else reputable to witness what you're doing. If you have the evidence on tape, I would bring her into the office, again, with a witness, and presnt her with the situation. If she so chooses to leave on her own free accord, so be it. If not, call the police. MAyeb even let her know that that it your plan. At any rate, single mom or not, on welfare or not, theft is theft.
 
Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 01-11-2003, 02:53 AM:
 
quote:
her next shift I am going to set up the cash to make it look like there is a $15 overage
This is (or at least was, when I was a manager) a common way to catch a dishonest cashier in the act.
 
Posted by Bill Langfield (Member # 818) on 01-11-2003, 10:55 AM:
 
Rachel/Barry/Sean,

I love the story so far. It can get scarey in here can't it!

However, this as said before 'over trailers', I know they should be returned, but they get chucked out pretty quick by the distibutors. Even the courier hates taking them because of this. The way I see it, if the 2nd run or Dollar house is keeping trailers that the 1st run has possibly finished with (most first run cinema's as far as I know, immediately stop screening trailers for films that are in release), this is good, at least the trailers wont get trashed, and could be used down the line at an Art House. (Like I noticed here on the Forum requests for trailers that would have long ago been trashed, if not for collectors)

Besides, when I send a print on to an 'Art House' or 2nd run, I'm not that interested in the trailers that were running with print anyway. (Just send the boxes with the print so they can return them)

However, the policy tags, I'd prefer returned, but that doesn't happen too often. Just got to think ahead and remove the stuff you want to keep before you run the last session.

As for centre rings & film transport sleeves, I'll SHUT UP RIGHT NOW!!
(IF I have extra's, they are from the same cinema chain OK! [Smile] )

Just a thought.

Bill.
 
Posted by Bill Langfield (Member # 818) on 01-11-2003, 11:03 AM:
 
Jim/Jason,

Your Box office people should NOT know what their Box Office total is until they have counted up, logged off, filled in the balance sheet and gone to treasury and see if it matches with the printout the manager has got from the system. (Should show actual and entered amount)
If they are $20 under, a safe count, all floats counted and mad seach of that till area is performed. (short version but hopefully you know what I mean) Similar thing for Candy applies too.

I know they could search the till area and find that $20, but I don't think could happen if they dont know how much they should have had in the first place.

Bill.
 
Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 01-11-2003, 11:39 AM:
 
quote:
... from Bill L:
Your Box office people should NOT know what their Box Office total is until they have counted up, logged off, filled in the balance sheet and gone to treasury and see if it matches with the printout the manager has got from the system.

Agreed! The cashiers should know their starting bank, and they can count it all they want. If your procedure is set up for it, this allows them to separate their income from the starting till,
However, running register totals should be reserved for the Manager, who can compare the numbers before anyone gets a chance for creative adjustment.

The other consideration is how you schedule cashiers around the tills in the first place. Some theatres don't have separate tills for each cashier on duty. This would make it very difficult to impose responsibility on any one person, should a problem go "legal". At least in our state, you can't assume responsibility on the part of a cashier unless he/she can verify the starting and ending totals, and has personal and exclusive control over the cash drawer until it's turned over to you. If someone else is allowed to make sales or change from that person's drawer, or if you take the drawer upstairs and count it privately, you lose accountability.
 
Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 01-11-2003, 11:48 AM:
 
Jim, I was going to send you private email but you have that disabled; I would advise against posting details of "sting" operations here publically, at least while they're being carried out. While it's unlikely that your employees read this forum, you should remember that nothing posted on the Internet is a secret...

--jhawk
 
Posted by Jim Alexander (Member # 226) on 01-11-2003, 07:17 PM:
 
Thanks for the advise John. It was a consideration I had. But this area is quite a small area and I know she does not have access to a computer nor the internet. As to a "sting", I really would not call it that. If she is honest, she has every oportunity to prove it. During a shift, the Box Office staff has full control over the register/drawer. Unfortunately, being a small operation, we don't have a POS system that allows the manager to directly control what should or should not be in the deposit. We use a simple cash register that the Box Office staff has full control over. That said, we do have close circuit TV cameras in the Box Office, canteen and lobby that we have remotely taped (the staff has no idea when it is taping and when it is not). As to witnesses, that is the plan. Since she does not work again until Monday, I have lots of time to get ready.
 
Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 01-13-2003, 05:52 AM:
 
quote:
Thanks for the advise John. It was a consideration I had. But this area is quite a small area and I know she does not have access to a computer nor the internet.
...but she might know someone who does, especially in a small area where one person who uses the Internet might talk to a lot of others who don't.

I don't know what the situation is in the US, but in English law there is a defence of agent provocateur. This basically says that if a defendant can prove that (s)he was deliberately induced into commiting an offence which they would not otherwise have done, then that on its own is grounds for acquittal. About 10 years ago someone was acquitted of a particarly nasty murder on Wimbledon Common because a confession had been obtained after an undercover police officer had befriended him. The police and most people in that community were totally convinced that he did it. But that was not enough to obtain a conviction, and the confession was held to have been obtained illegally.

If your objective in this case is simply to get rid of a dishonest employee rather than secure a conviction, then presumably a 'sting' operation would be OK: even if it compromised the chances of a criminal case I can't see any way in the world how you could challenge the decision to dismiss someone from their job from those grounds: after all the employee did steal, even if (s)he was deliberately given the opportunity.
 
Posted by Barry Martin (Member # 1376) on 01-13-2003, 01:19 PM:
 
Leo,

I am no law expert but it sounds like entrapment you are talking about.

Bill,

Not to re-open that really long pointless debate but to reiterate why I was so annoyed by the theft was that it was policy trailers. The previews I could really have cared less about and probably would have written off to somebody removing them at my theater. The policy was removed and like I said we only had a few at the time that were in even "fair" condition, never mind good condition and my company was not feeling up to replacing them quickly enough due to their financial problems at the time.

Jim,

I would divulge as little as necessary about your sting to the employee. IF she does take the bait, then I would just bring her into a private area and show the tape of her pocketing the money and see how she reacts. You would be prepared to accept her resignation or terminate no matter how she reacts, that's what I would do anyway.
 
Posted by Rachel Gilardi (Member # 1016) on 01-13-2003, 07:53 PM:
 
Barry,
Please just drop it, like others requested. I have already emailed you asking you to just let it go and not post anymore on our topic. Now I am asking you publicly since you did not seem to understand the email.

Thankyou.
 
Posted by Jim Alexander (Member # 226) on 01-13-2003, 09:06 PM:
 
Well...time has past and the tape is in. Only one word decribes what happened...."Busted". What I can't understand is the close circuit camera is in plan veiw, not 5 feet from the individual as she pockets $15.00. The question is, does she really think I'm that dumb?
 
Posted by Rachel Gilardi (Member # 1016) on 01-13-2003, 09:50 PM:
 
Congrats, it always feels good to catch someone in the act!
 
Posted by Tom Petrov (Member # 1534) on 01-14-2003, 12:55 PM:
 
Hi everybody. I am new here it is a great site.
Anyhow, we had a assistant manager at my theater who was returing the cups at the end of the night and replacing the cups that were sold but were not punched in the computer. The day the he worked the CPP was around 1.35 and when he was not working it was 2.25-2.50. They never could catch him because he caught on that they were watching him. So they transfered him and he then quit. He apparently got fired from Walmart after that.
 
Posted by Michael Brown (Member # 890) on 01-14-2003, 01:34 PM:
 
Welcome! [thumbsup]
 
Posted by Barry Martin (Member # 1376) on 01-14-2003, 03:30 PM:
 
Rachel,

I tried to email you back just now but it is apparently blocked or something. I never received an email from you that I am aware of, this site (as well as all others I subscribe to) has my junk email address, thus everything usually ends up deleted unless I recognize a name or subject line. Sean can vouch for that because he had no subject line and if his name didn't resemble our industry I wouldn't have bothered reading it. When I did talk with Sean a few weeks ago we solved this ourselves, it does not concern you and I wish you would stop trying to tell me what I can and cannot post here. Someone posted a response to me and I replied to them, as far as I can tell that is what's done here and I still have done nothing wrong. If this needs to be discussed further (which I see no point to or reason) then I suggest emailing me with "Film-Tech" in the subject line so I know who is calling, for the time I think you and I are just going to have to agree to disagree and leave eachother alone, sound like a good idea? Thanks.
 




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