Have any of you had any robbery incidents?

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Evans A Criswell
Huntsville-Decatur Movie Theatre Info Site
 

A man and woman bought tickets, then near the end of the last show of the night, made all the employees get into the chainlink wire cage-type area where all the money is counted, and took off with the receipts.

They got caught within a couple of weeks. I forget the circumstances around their capture, but it was one of those typical stupid-crook-type things.

 

The person waited until after the theatre was closed and robbed the manager and one other employee of the nights boxoffice receipts. The manager was shot dead in the parking lot.

Yes. It is very scarey, indeed. It happened to me in 1984, almost identical to the way the Huntsville Times wrote. It was a time I would rather forget, but from time to time, I do think of it.

I think I made a post somewhere about it on Film-Tech, but I don't remember where.

In addition to the memories of the robbery itself and danger to my employees, I have some positively vitrolic memories of how piss-poor the head of the circuit handled it. I'll always remember that response, right down to the exact words used. As it was, his kharma caught up with him a few years back, and besides, after seven years we are supposed to forgive all transgressions for our own well being. Someday, maybe he'll become a man and offer a proper apology, preferably in writing.

I've also had to go in immediately after robberies to evaluate the situation and counsel managers and employees. Robberies suck, and it doesn't help that there is often an insider on the staff that helps in the planning.

BTW, yes Bob, I did keep my composure during and after the robbery at my theatre. I was much more worried about the kids on the staff than anything else. I couldn't have lived with myself if any of them had been hurt. Funny thing is, it wasn't anything I thought about before that time, but once the situation was in progress, it was all I could think about. That was a helluva a lot different attitude than the circuit head had after the incident.

The police never caught the guy, but did start ticketing us when we parked in our front driveway to do the drops (something about fire lane...blah blah blah). Finnally the powers that be switched to all armored car deposits. Robberies still happen though. The most recent was in one of our Los Angeles theatres; gun + violence = a small amount of money in relation to the risk involved. Stpid theives.

Then there's the thieves from within....

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Jonathan Haglund
Edwards Theatre Circuit, Inc
Park Place 10
 

"FOR STRENGTH AND HONOUR"

 

We don't have any policy on this yet. We do have a video camera system aimed at the front doors and on the concession area, and have a security system installed.

What does everyone have for policy in a robbery situation?

And, of course, the van driver got nailed for all of this. The corporate powers that be wouldn't dare stand up for the guy because they couldn't endorse his actions. I can't remember how much money was involved, but it couldn't have been worth it to the guy in the van nor the guy who got killed. However, I never heard another story about that theatre getting robbed.

Rape and pillage the document as you like, but keep in mind that this was written for a specific theater and I will claim no liability for its use outside of that complex. Names have been changed or removed to protect the innocent and stupid.

Use Adobe Acrobat Reader to view.

Click here

Oh, and I wasn't real fond of the bomb threat part, but that was shoved down my throat by the company.

Robbers don't like to be surprised and they don't like to be stuck in traffic or public view. (For many years the only places open with money at night when there was no traffic were theatres and truck stops. Since many truckers carry guns, theatres were the easy target.)

After those two cardinal rules, there are other things that work with varying degrees of effectiveness. Color video cameras are cheap and give much better definition than the original black & white security cameras. Having security cameras and tape of each night is a deterrant. If you use these, get 14 tapes, label them for each day of the week, and rotate them. While you might not catch the robber on tape during the act, chances are real good that they cased the theatre within the past two weeks. A clear color image can give cops clues, and pointing to an image of the robber is much more effective than trying to describe the person using the computer or acetate composite kits.

The video recorder must be hidden and preferrably in the booth away from money and behind a locked door. (Most states don't allow you to record sound. Check with the cops or state attorney.) Stick a junker tape recorder in the office for the employees to look at and the robber to rip the tape out of. Put a camera surveilling the entire area around the office door and a tv inside to see who is standing at the door bfore opening it. Peepholes are worthless, since robbers will grab an employee and stick them in front of the peephole. (This is what happened to me.)

An alarm on the safe, office door and a panic switch can help. This requires monitoring and remembering, but can be a deterrant.

*No deposits after dark. General Cinema used to be one of the dumbest circuits on this. GCC policy required a bank drop after every set of shows started or if there was more than X amount of funds. At the same time, the house safes routinely contained thousands in change and petty cash. Supposedly two people were required to open the safe (inner and outer doors). Statistically, any night drop robber was more likely to encounter a GCC manager than anyone else, and employees could come close to setting their watches to the times that managers "stepped outside." The large amounts in the safe made a tempting target as well, and frustrated robbers, who don't think a manager is telling the truth when he says he can't open the inner safe, are no laughing matter. I still remember the bullet holes that remained in the Charlottetown office from some earlier robbery attempt.

Timelock safes in the lobby with armoured car pickup are very secure. Quickie-marts use these with good reason. After any second robbery within a year's time, it is time to put one of these in. Be wary of the armoured car services though. These had a big drop in reliability a few years back, and the big name services may no longer be the best.

Slight of hand tricks to keep the apparent amount of money down can work surprisingly well. Money in an inside jacket pocket is a less visible draw than money in a bag. A briefcase or paper lunch sack is less obvious than a deposit bag. Putting a deposit bag ready for a drop into the safe may be less safe than sticking it in the back of a locked file cabinet under some papers. Going to the bank at odd hours is less obvious than setting any particular pattern. If a night drop must be made, a dummy paper deposit or multiple bags can prevent a bank drop robber from getting huge amounts. Successful large robberies spur more. Don't brag about big deposits or huge weekend grosses.

During the event, do whatever the robber wants except getting into a car. If it is a night drop, yell "Here! Its yours! Take it! I'm outa here." Toss the bag as far as you can in one direction and run in the opposite direction or duck down in the car and put it in reverse. Don't worry about dents.

If a robbery occurs, NEVER give the figure of the exact amount stolen to the police in the first 48 hours, even if the detective hounds you. Police reports are routinely picked up by newspapers and the amout of the theft will be spread out for all to see. Your correct response is "The amount has to be determined after an audit by our head office. Please note 'undetermined amount' on your report and we will inform you later. I cannot guess at the amount." You must be willing to push the police and state attorney for prosecution. Theatre robberies aren't big events in today's world. If you can tell employees that the last guy who tried to rob you got put away for X years, it is a strong deterrent. I can think of other things, but that gives a general drift of what to do.

FWIW, circuits have done draconian things to the employee victims of robbers in the past. If you happen to work for a circuit and are robbed, contact a competant attorney to find out if you have any rights. "Right to work" laws can effectively strip you of most of your rights. If you think your circuit is not handling the robbery, _where your life was in danger_, properly and professionally, then find a new employer.

I feel a rant coming on, so I'll stop here.

OK, coming back after cooling down a little. How to minimize the effect on employees and management: Be pro-active. Push the cops and make sure employees know that you are seeking the culprits. Regarding interviews of employees by investigators: The interviews immediately after the robbery are an important part of police work. Delayed interviews and secondary interviews often border on harrasment. Limit those. It is entirely possible that an employee may be involved in the setup of a robbery, but good employees don't take lightly to the pointed questions and near accusations of some investigators used by the police or the circuit. Placing an undercover agent on staff after a robbery is probably a much more effective way of gathering information than grilling or polygraphs of already traumetized employees ready to quit.

I know of one good manager that flat-out quit and moved out of state after requests by an employer to polygraph him after a robbery. Reflecting on that, I would probably have done the same. If a company doesn't have the trust in a manager during a robbery, when that person is operating as the agent of the company under the greatest strain possible, then the company is not one to be involved with.

Employees and managers that have been physically assaulted need at least the offer of free professional counseling. Obviously, medical bills and lost wages need to be covered in full. While wage replacement may not be required by law, it is the only moral thing to do.

Some more pointers:

1. Establish a good relationship with local law enforcement. If possible, get a few off duty police to work security for you on weekends. This gains two results for you. First, potential robbers will see the cops when casing the theatre, and will likely make them choose another target. Second, if an incident does occur, the police will have a personal stake in solving the case.

2. Have all employees keeping an eye out for suspcious persons.. A lot of robbers will case the place before they rob it. If a staff member notices them doing this, and makes contact with them (a simple "May I help you"), they will likely move onto an easier target..

3. If you have an electronic safe, brag about it. Put warning stickers on your front doors norifying woudl be robbers than managers have no access to the drop areas and that time locks are in use.
 

Back in the early 60's I was working as a manager of the Newsreel Theatre in Times Square. All theatres in the circuit would call us every evening to report the days grosses. The reason they called my theatre is because our last show went on at 2AM so there was always letting out at 3AM and re opened at 7AM. One night one of the other NY Theatres failed to call. I kept trying to reach them and never got an answer. Then as the night wore on I got busy doing other things and forgot they hadn't called. The next day the theatre did not open for the first show. I received a call from one of the employees that they couldn't get into the theatre. I grabed a spare set of keys that we kept in case of emergency and hopped a cab up to the other theatre.

When I went down stairs, I noticed that the light were on in the Managers Office. When I open the door I found the manager and the cashier bound and tied together on the floor.
Thier clothes had been removed and their hands taped behind them and they were roped back to back together. They safe was open and of course the money was all gone. They had stayed this way for over 13 hours. They were alive. But I don't think they were ever the same again. The manager and I stayed friends until his passing in 1984. However his hands would shake when ever he carried money.

How can anyone be so sick to do something like that to another person? I just don't understand...

Bob: I hope they found the person that did that!
 

1. When four gunmen walked into our theater, robbed us at gunpoint, and tied us all up in the auditorium, I was able to get free and called the police. When the police arrived (complete with their macho glue-on mustaches), they took us all to the police station, put us in the “confession box” where they questioned us like the Nazi’s would in WW II.

After they told us we were free to go, the police department didn’t even offer us the common courtesy to take us back to the theater. We either had to walk back or call someone to take us back. It was “our choice” what we wanted to do.

Three weeks later, I went down to the Gestapo Department and asked if they ever caught the guys. I was told that it was none of my business, and they have to protect the rights of those who held us at gunpoint.

I told them, “Their rights? What about MY rights? I was the one who was looking down the bore of a .357!”

I was promptly told to leave, which is what I did.

2. Several years later, we had some suspected drug dealing happening in our parking lot.

I called the police and they told me to send someone out and get the license plate number of the suspected cars! I blew my top and told the cop on the phone, “If you think I am going to send one of my kids out there to get a license plate number, you are out of your mind! That’s what you guys are paid to do!”

They never responded. The next day, I had a meeting with the Chief of Police, and the Mayor of the town, where I really told them what I thought. From that point on, they would not even speak to me when I saw them. They looked the other way as though I didn’t exist. I guess I got my point across.

3. Yesterday, I read an article in the news about a business owner of a music store that caught a thief red-handed stealing 11 Pink Floyd CD’s. The owner chased after him, fired three warning shots, and held the thief at gunpoint. The policeman came up, drew his pistol, and told the owner to drop the gun, and the thief took off running and GOT AWAY! The owner was promptly arrested and thrown in jail and held there for eight hours.

I sent an Email to that cop. I said, “Good Job, Sergeant! Now you know why the thieves laugh at you and make a mockery out of the Judicial System!”

The cop never replied, and probably never will.

Paul: Sounds like you were talking to the NYPD.
 

When the manager got there, he went up to the second floor office, like normal, and heard the bumping around. He immediately went up the 'trap door' we have in the roof and started chasing these guys. They got down the ladder and got in the truck. He called down to us bigger guys and said, "Go out back, look for a truck, and get the license plate number!!"

We went out there but they were gone. What happened???

They stole ALL of our brass/copper piping for the AC/Heat off of the roof. To sell for scrap evidently. It took a couple days to get AC back. I'm sure it was replaced with aluminum or some crud metal.

JK

 

It sounds like you were dealing with a very unprofessional department..

I feel lucky in that my theatre has exceptional relations with the Police Dept.. Which is a good thing considering how much we have to call them.
 

They are not only unprofessional, they are not very intelligent. I just read in today's paper that one of those cops got popped for DWI. It was his second one in three months. The BCA was .20 or a little above it this time. Our legal limit is .08.

It apparently was kept very quiet. No action was taken on the first one, because the case was not "flagged" in the prosecuting attorney's office, and was located in the "routine" basket.

I find this very interesting, along with thousands of the residents of this city. This city has a population of 26,232.

Excuse me. My “rant” dash light is flashing.

After getting jumped the second time in front of my theater, I got my permit to carry a concealed weapon (CWP). Shortly after that, I became an assistant instructor. I couldn’t become an instructor because I refused to join the NRA (we’re not going there). I have been robbed at gun-point and I have been shot at (not in theaters) and I’ve done a lot of work with victims wanting to arm themselves. The emotional carnage from a robbery (or assault) is unknowable.

Jerry’s post on this thread should be printed up and hung in every theater and be required reading. Very good and to the point.

If one of my students had fired three warning shots after a thief (granted, they were Pink Floyd CDs), I would have made damn sure s/he never had a CWP in my county again, then I would have taken him out back and kicked his ass up around his ears. When you fire warning shots, where do you think they go? There’s an old George Carlin joke about “twenty-one people killed today during a twenty-one gun salute.” What goes up, must come down.

There is no material possession worth a human life, and the only reason you use a gun is to protect yourself or others from immediate mortal harm. Period. If you think you need to kill another human to protect your gross, get into another line of work.

Jerry Chase’s post gives many ways to protect yourself that are much more effective than arming yourself. If you want a gun in your theater (and you aren’t willing to get the training), have it attached to a cop.

When I went through my advanced training, I did an exorcise where I was blindfolded and lead onto the range. When everyone was behind cover, I uncovered my eyes, then had five seconds to pick the bad-guy out of a forest of silhouettes and shoot him. The bad guy was paper, the civilians were plastic for a total of about 20 targets. When the whistle blew, I uncovered, found the bad-guy, unloaded my magazine. The whistle blew, I holstered my weapon and admired the nice tight grouping in the center of mass in the bad-guy. Then the instructor came out and held up the civilian target behind the bad-guy. I felt like shit. It’s grouping was very tight, also. Last I heard, that civilian target is still on the wall in the CWP classroom. I know I’ll never forget it.

Please, don’t go out and buy a gun and figure you’re safer. In reality, you are not. You are actually more dangerous to yourself and your customers.

 

If you are robbed and the robber then leaves (either with or without the money), you are done with the incident and you should count yourself lucky to be alive and un-injured.

The law allows you to defend yourself only. Pursuit of the suspect would be dangerous and foolish (not to mention unlawful).

Give the security tapes to the cops and run your movies. No "warning shots".

Jerry has the right idea. Safety is more important than a deposit.
 

Concession receipts are smaller but since there are usually people around it would be feasible to occasionally carry a drop from the concession to the box office.

So far since joining film-tech I hadn't given much thought to the personal dangers of handling cash while working for minimum wage for a rotten theatre chain. This is one more black mark in a bad scenario. If this is your situation, QUIT, folks, before something happens. It just is NOT worth it. Somewhere, you gotta draw the line.
 

quote:

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HUNTSVILLE, Ala., May 10 - The Hollywood 18 Theater on South Memorial Parkway was robbed just after midnight Thursday. Huntsville Police say the manager was locking up when he was approached by three men. One of those robbers had a gun with him.

"They demanded that he go back inside where they had him open the safe and then put him face down and tied him up," says Huntsville Police Sergeant Ed Cain.

Sergeant Ed Cain says the three men took off with a large amount of money. While the manager wasn't hurt, neighboring businesses say they aren't surprised by what happened.

"In front of Hollywood 18, you get a lot of kids out there especially on the weekends. Anytime you see a lot of kids together there is going to be problems. There's drinking and fighting. They can't just go watch a movie and then go home," says businessman Edward Walls.

Walls owns Deep Collectibles on South Memorial Parkway. His store is next door to the Hollywood 18 Theater. He says his business has been lucky the past few years. "You can't really let that bother you. Otherwise, no one is going to be in business."

Now that the hot days of summer are just ahead, many people will be taking in a cool movie. And police say you need to be extra careful when you head out to see your favorite flicks. "If you are going to attend the movies or shopping centers, public open space, be sure you lock your car. Don't put your valuables in plain view," says Cain.

No arrests have been made in this case.

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Evans A Criswell
Huntsville-Decatur Movie Theatre Info Site

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John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion
 

Our cleaning service was packing up for the day (around 7 AM) when these guys (I cant remember how many) got on the roof and busted in through the door up there. (We're stadium seating & the booth has exit catwalks on the sides of the building).

Anyway, the guys had a crobar & they made the cleaners (2 of them) sit on a bench in the lobby where they taped them up.
The robbers then tried to get into the ATM by beating it w/ the crobar (but thats all they did, they just beat it up, didn't get a dollar! )

They tried to get into our money counting room, but the door is really heavy & is double deadbolted, so they couldn't get anything from there.

In the end, they took a little bit of cash from the cleaners & made off with the cleaning crew's car (which the police found at a hotel across the street)

This didn't get much publicity around town, not even in the city newspaper, but it did happen the weekend that "Mummy Returns" came out, so they could have made out with quite a lot of cash (Considering we sold out almost every evening show in our 3 auditoriums that had Mummy)

Some of our staff still doesn't know that it happened!
 

Former workers sue cinema owner over firings

JACKSON, Tenn. (AP) — Two workers robbed at gunpoint and then fired have filed a lawsuit against their former employer, Amabarish Keshani, owner of Ajay's Jackson Cinema 10.

Deloris Adkins and John Murdaugh seek $2 million in damages, saying Keshani fired them because they didn't save him $800 by making a bank deposit before the robbery.

 

Someone once said, "Let not your heart be troubled, for there is nothing you can do to change what's done."

Please keep us posted on developments if you can.

Thank you Evans for the post.

Thanks,
 

IF true, they may want to file a second suit alleging a lack of security and insufficient training or time to do normal duties placed them in mortal danger, and the stress of the resulting experience has affected them negatively, both personally and professionally. I've already mentioned that right-to-work laws act as a shield to employers against lawsuits for wrongful termination. Many employees only learn this after the fact.

Any manager who sees an opportunity for armed robbery because of company policy or lack of action in the face of an obvious danger should (in fact is duty-bound to) report it in writing to corporate headquarters and keep copies of such correspondence. I still have my copies of a memo detailing how the security of the manager's office where I was robbed was weak, including a workable plan and diagram for solving the problem for less than $300 (which, BTW, was never approved).

I suggest that ALL managers reading this please review their security procedures and make appropriate written comments exposing weaknesses of security to the corporate officers, for the protection of themselves and their staffs.

 

Think about it this way, the robbers made off with an *extra* $800.. That makes it a profitable score.. Much more profitable than your average gas station. By making their theatre a profitable score, they have almost guarenteed they will be robbed again.

What you have stated is the ONLY argument that could mitigate the firing, though, and will probably be used as the first line of defense.

Why do I state that the statement is bullshit? Because in an armed robbery situation such as this, the individual drop that wasn't made is usually only a small portion of a much larger amount stolen. In a theatre robbery, petty cash, later box office, game and concession receipts, change fund, etc. are all usually taken. I suspect the $800 might represent only 20% of the amount lost. The statement that the $800 extra is a determining amount for a robber to return is so ludicrous as to rate right up there with the logic of chain letter riches and trickle down economics.

Requiring, as a matter of policy, numerous bank drops (usually with two people) is a set-up and NOT an especially valid or cost effective method of loss control, and I suspect my statement can be statistically proven.

GCC in 1984 required a drop after each set of show starts and an additional drop whenever more than $200 in receipts had accumulated, except at the very end of the day. Even though the banks were often close to the theatre, I measured the average time out of the building during a single drop at one theatre to be 12 minutes, exclusive of the count and prep time in the theatre.

Running a grind schedule there were a minimum of five show starts per day, and at least six seperate deposits to be made, more often ten or twelve. Over 2 man-hours per day were spent on deposits, (a figure usually denied as a gross overstatement by those who haven't used a stopwatch to time the activity) and a semi-competant robber waiting at a bank for as little as half-an hour during peak times was guaranteed a mark.

With other circuits, especially manager-operator combinations, there might be only two staff members in the theatre at certain times, and (fortunately?) the number of required drops is usually fewer. Shift change, first evening shows and a late drop are common. With one circuit there were times I had the choice of making the deposit alone (against policy), not making the deposit (against policy), or taking the other employee and leaving the entire theatre building full of customers with no one on the floor or in the booth while projectors were running (only technically against policy since it wasn't written down as a policy). I used common sense, policy be damned. Guess which policy I had to break fairly often?

The loss of any extra deposit is regretable, and a full accounting needs to be made, but termination for such a breach in policy is on a par with termination for a breach of policy of the toilet tissue in the restrooms being found "almost" out. The drop policy argument is a straw man designed to deflect the true responsibility, which usually lies not with the manager or assistant, but with the theatre owner or corporate office.

An owner can easily install a time-lock and/or depository safe on-premises and reduce both the probability of robbery and possibility of large amounts being stolen, which leads into another comment I have. Every theatre company that I worked for that required night drops or depository drops required the employee to provide the car and never wanted to properly reimburse the employee for milage or wear and tear on the car. When submitting milage reports, I've had rude stares when I pointed out that 10 trips per day to and from a bank only 1/4 mile away was 5 miles and over two weeks was roughly 60 miles for the manager. Not paying for that wear and tear on a private auto is corporate theft from employees, and most employees are too chicken to cluck.

5 miles x 365 days = 1825 miles. 1825 miles x 30 cents per mile = $547.50. Lost time of two hours per day doing drops x $10/hr = $20.
$20 x 365 = $7,300. $7,300 + 547.50 = $7847.50.

A wide variety of safes for depository or time lock functions are available that can easily pay for themselves. With a five minute net check, I found these:
http://www.safes.com/hmhighsecdep.html http://www.lemlocks.it/en/Casse.htm http://nationalsafe.net/depositorysafe.html

Firing people who have been robbed is a hoary tradition in the industry that was originally based on the idea that the manager had to be involved somehow, and the terror of a manager being robbed and then fired would somehow magically make all the other managers never get robbed. That idea is bullshit as well, in addition to being immoral and idiotic.

I had over a dozen years of experience in management when I was robbed. The afternoon deposit wasn't dropped because the assistant had to hightail it to deliver a print and I was swamped from the point I walked in the door with crises that were piled on top of each other.

I lay odds that firing because of an undeposited drop being lost is made ten times as often because of a denial of reality by upper management than any effect the loss of the few dollars has. It is convenient and comforting for someone in a secure office to say "Well, this person brought the theft on themself, and firing them will teach everyone a lesson." Seems to me that a similar hairbrained argument was used to justify the rape of women for years.
"She brought it on herself. Getting raped teaches her a lesson." Managers are being stuck against their will in the virtual low-cut dresses of large amounts of cash and insufficient security and getting screwed regularly by both robbers and corporate pricks.

If a manager loses an extra drop and the company requires him or her to make it up out of his or her own pocket over time, fine. Fair is fair. On the other hand, termination of an employee (for whatever reason) that has just been through the trauma of an armed robbery while in the employ of the company is a morally bankrupt act and an indication of a major rectal-cranial inversion.

You do have a way with words. How did you know what I was thinking?
 

Whatever...

The more profitable the take, the more likely another robbery becomes.. If the emps in question did not make an $800 deposit, it is safe to assume that most of the $800 was large bills (twentys, fiftys , hundreds). $800 in large bills is easy to carry away and spend ($800 in ones is hard to dispose of, and $800 in quarters are just too bloody heavy to steal).

You may not like your companys deposit policys, but they are there for a reason. If you don't like them, talk to your boss. If you are told they won't change you have 2 choices, follow them or quit.. Simple, eh?

Now, does banking procedures make up for lax security? Not really, but it can minimize your exposure. Theatres are not easy targets, and their difficulty increases with their size. The trick to not getting robbed is to make the score not worth the risk.

Gas sataions get robbed because, even thogh the profit is low, the risk is low. An inside robbery (as opposed to a box office stick up)at a theatre is high risk. If a robber comes in and robs you and all he can get to is a bunch of ones, fives and quarters, he probably won't come back, as it will be a low profit score. If he comes in and gets several hundred dollars in larger bills, the score becomes worth the risk.

Don't believe me, ask a cop...

And one more thing, your staements about safes, drop policys, and general building security "assumes facts not in evidence".. Specifically, the article made no mention on what type of safe the theatre had, what their policys are, or anyting one the physical security of the building.

That is why in my first post, I stated *If* there was a policy, the term was justified. Let's not crucufy poor Ajay or his theatre based on the assuption that he is the personification of everything you hate...

BTW, when did losing a deposit become as trivial as almost being out of toilet paper???

Paragraph one, which a weak satire attempting to recover from my blowing away your original argument, the argument forwarded by you that $800 out of a larger amount was somehow an amount that would make a robber return. I used the actual percentage involved in the robbery where I was the victim. That 20% of the total loss was the stated determining factor in my own termination. I trust you have an equally valid source of information for your estimates?

Even the basic logic of your paragraph is faulty. Robberies are crimes of opportunity, and your satirical comment that $30 or $800 makes no difference is not as satirical as you might want others to believe. The desperate and stupid often prey on the weak for miniscule amounts. Read the papers sometimes, you'll read about how people get killed for resisting the theft of a gold chain or wallet with $20 in it.

Following your lead, "Whatever..."

The next paragraph continues the theme "the more profitable... the more likely..." Again, faulty logic. Taken to an extreme, this logic would dictate there should have been thousands of "Great Train Robberies" and an ever decreasing number of petty thefts. Again, the real point is that robbery doesn't happen without opportunity.

"Follow them or quit...Simple, eh?" No, it isn't that simple, and you know it full well. I made it readily apparent that following those policies can be literally impossible to do consistently.

If your wife told you to hover six inches above the carpet so you wouldn't get it dirty and she didn't have to Hoover it, or she would divorce you, would you be able to hover above the carpet to save her Hoover? If you truly loved or respected her, would you take that one rule as the determining reason to quit the marriage? If you needed a job you had worked years to attain, at great personal sacrifice, to support yourself, and wife and kids, would you raise the dust of vocal discontent and risk losing that job, or try your honest best and hope that you didn't get caught in one of those times when events conspired against you? Simple, eh? Maybe it is to the simple-minded.

Banking procedures... Apparently you didn't understand what I wrote before. Let me repeat myself in smaller words and a short sentence.

Common theatre banking deposit procedures often MAXIMIZE exposure.

I detailed this in the GCC example. Owners set the policy. You almost had it right though, the trick to not getting robbed IS to minimize exposure and maximize the chance of the robber getting caught and convicted (or hurt).

About asking a cop... Jim, I've known many cops. I got the son of a cop who worked for me to turn himself in for theft. I've seen cops try vainly to figure out which end of the donut to dunk. Most cops I've met have an IQ one half that of their testosterone level, which is why they haven't made detective or gone on to better jobs. I'll save the taxing of the brains of the boys in blue and say it straight out:

Repeat performances by crooks are usually because the owners that have had problems refuse to put in the security measures to prevent the event from happening again. Managers don't have that decision making choice and are forced to work under those conditions. How's that for simple?

You seem to forget that I was not only manager in my career, but district manager and have had a wide range of experience, probably more than 95% of people in the industry, including most owners. Where one circuit licked its wounds, fired people and went on about its merry way, another that I worked for rebuilt an office, sealing off the offending door to the lobby, installed security cameras, put an alarm on the doors and safes, and installed a second depository safe with a timelock. You seem to be attempting to defend those who merely lick their wounds and expose fresh managers to the exact same danger that has put previous managers in mortal danger. Do you really want to do that?

You'll note that I predicated my first post on the Ambrish Keshani situation with an "IF" and disclaimer. I relate from my own personal experience, Jim. It could be close to the situation in Tennessee or not. I hope it isn't. My intent is not to crucify Ambrish, but point out a disturbing industy practice. However, if Ambrish has built a cross and decided to hand ex-employees nails, that is none of my doing. I've never worked for him, nor have I ever set foot in his theatres.

"BTW, when did losing a deposit become as trivial as almost being out of toilet paper???"

That one is simple to answer. At the same time that owners started treating managers as disposable as toilet paper.

Jim, I like you, but I am a master debater and have the experience, strength, and moral determination to back up my position to the hilt. If you want to work with or for people who don't comprehend the dangers of a job where a random robbery and single bullet can end the life of a manager in their employ, then go ahead. Don't try to justify or glorify them here though, because I will continue to pull those puny plaudits from their penny-pinching palms.

The two ex-employees were, as I recall, asking for two million dollars for wrongful termination. How much would their parents ask for if a bullet had "wrongfully terminated" them instead? Compare that to the cost of installing proper security measures and eliminating the problem before it had a chance to develop.

There is not enough information to make a determiniation however. If this was an after close robbery, and $800 was taken, that probably represents the entire days reciepts, therefore this is probably a slower 10 screen, probably with a lower managers fund.

Theatre office robberies are typically not crimes of opprotunity. A box office stick up may be, but there are too many varibles in a theatre robbery for a criminal not to put at least some planning into it. An office robbery is not a quick in and out like a gas station. Especially in larger complexes, finding the office may be incredibily difficult.

Great Train Robberies are dangerous. Typically the payoff isn't worth the risk..

I do have to ask, if GCC had such impossible policies, and were so unreasonable as to fire anyone who raised a concern, why did you stick with them?

Your statements on cops are kind of off the wall... You caught a cops kid stealing? Good job.. I bet his dad's reaction was much more severe than the juvinile justices systems was.

I do agree with you that holes in security exposed during a robberymust be fixed to deter future robberies. Firing employees who intentionally did things that increses the risk may be part of filling those holes. For example, if your theatre has a policy that no customers are to be readmitted after close for any reason, and then an usher lets someone in who proceeds to rob the theatre, firing that usher would not be out of line. Now, if the theatre has no such policy, then firing the usher would only be justified if the usher showed a severe lapse of judgement (i.e. the guy he let is was wearing a ski mask). However, enacting such a policy following a robbery may be a good idea.

Jerry, don't lecture me about the dangers of the theatre buisness. I work in a theatre where is is not unusual for us to have more off-duty police officers on duty at the theatre than are on-duty in the small city we are in. Not a month ago, one of those officers got his nose broken in a schuffle with 2 individuals that decided they didn't need tickets to be in the building..

Last weekend, my ushers threw out someone for jumping theatres. About a half an hour later, one of those ushers was doing a permiter check when that individual, and his friends, confronted that usher and theatened him.. Luckily, additional ushers and managers were close, and the group withdrew once they were outnumbered, and finally left the premisis when police arrived.

Granted, none of this tops the "terriorist act using a weapon of mass destruction" (so said the FBI spokesman) that my theatre had in 1999, but it is still scary enough...

Do not even imply that I am unconcerned with the saftey and welfare of the people who work for me.. Quite frankly, that is about all I think about..

The standard policy of multiple daily bank drops is interesting if you analyze it. It essentially says that by reducing the amount of money in a single drop, it will reduce the temptation of robbery. This concept doesn't make sense, because of the nature of theatre business. Joe Blow manages for a theatre with this policy, dutifully making three or more deposits per day of $200 for five days of the week. The robber learns most business occurs Friday and Saturday evenings. He scopes out the bank and hits on the scheduled drop of the Friday 7 PM show starts. The take? Estimating low, 400 customers x $5 = $2,000 minimum plus concession. Time exposed- less than half an hour. The amount and opportunity are enough to suggest a repeat performance, and yet the corporate office is "concerned" but not upset. Joe Blow decides to skip a deposit on Wednesday afternoon, and the casual robber gets $400 instead of $200 and the world caves in because Joe was being "irresponsible." Horse Hockey. Business logic for people who have frog spit for brains, and bean-counters who spend an hour at the post office each day to avoid having to pay to have stamps on hand or invest in a postage meter.

Multiple drops are based on the EXPECTATION that a manager will eventually be robbed at gunpoint. (Nice attitude, huh?) The smaller amount in a multiple drop bag reduces the financial risk to the company by a minimal amount, but increases the exposure of the manager.

In contrast, an on-site depository safe with time lock reduces both financial risk and exposure of the manager. The same companies that can cough up money for a new sound system for each auditorium in a ten screen theatre can't afford a depository safe or armoured pick-up? Maybe there are places like that, and something like this probably would be a burden to a small five screen in the country, but I put it to you that the whole issue is a matter of priorities and a deliberate choice; that the potential for a manager getting hurt and the company having to pay out are less than the cost of insuring the safety of employees.

Businesses had to be forced to cover exposed moving belts in factories and it cost owners money to make changes. How is this that much different?

You asked why I stuck with GCC? I did only until I'd realized for certain just how hidebound the company was at the time, and then I quit, giving proper notice. There is another story in all that which I can't tell at this time.

Firing employees to shore up security can be problematic. In my case, I wasn't even the person who opened the door that admitted the robber. The robber had been in the lobby, waited until one employee was in the office, then grabbed another employee and stuffed him against the peephole and had him to rap on the door. The employee in the office asked who it was, looked through the peephole, and opened the door while I was working on reports. There was no money out at the time. Employees HAD to be admitted to the office by design, since the boxoffice could only be entered through the office. Fire the kid that had the gun stuck in his back? Nah, too cold. Fire the employee who opened the door, even though she checked to see who was there? A female minor who had been terrified and whose parents might sue? Nope. Fire the manager who was doing reports? Right. Change the faulty design that directly led to the opportunity? No way!

I don't deny that there can be flagrant violations of policy that require termination. Counting money with an unlocked door, etc. could be reasons for such an action. I do suggest that different companies handle situations differently.

The more caring company that I mentioned in a previous post realized after one robbery that an assistant had broken policy in a way that had directly led to the success of the heist. That assistant was beaten badly enough during the robbery that he spent a week in hospital recovering. When he was released, he was given a probationary return with the reasonable assumption that he NEVER would make that error again, and would actually prevent others from being as foolish as he had been. It worked. At the same time everyone learned from his mistake, the managers were assured that the company would treat them fairly in any such situation. Good companies don't have to rule by terror.

I am in the enviable position of having had the experiences, and looked at robberies from the point of view of both manager and district manager. I don't work for a theatre company now, and I can speak my mind freely without having to worry about that next paycheck. I guarantee my attitude pisses off some people and alienates me from others, and I am willing to accept that gladly if only one or two managers don't have to go through what I did, or get hurt, or get killed.

I am glad that you are concerned about the safety of your employees. Be thankful if somebody out there is as caring of your own safety.

A million each as an asking price and bargaining chip is, IMO, reasonable. I'm sure actual settlement would end up being much less.
One doesn't walk up to a trespassing German Shepard with a flyswatter. One doesn't go into court without demanding an amount that gives bargaining room. One million won't even buy a whole house in San Francisco.

Another company I worked for earlier in my career did not have such a policy and that was on the other end of the extreme example I mentioned above. Picture a brand new 15 plex, routinely selling out 80-90% of the available seats in the complex, and just me making trips by myself to the bank. I remember carrying over $75,000 at a time to the bank for this company! This is where Jim's argument really comes into play. Looking back on those days, that was just fucking stupid and I don't know why I agreed to do it. However, I had my own way of transporting the money. I would change out of my shirt and tie and get into street clothes where I had the money in my jacket pockets, stuffed into a couple of empty film cans, or whatever I could find. (I always tried to vary it, so there would be no pattern.) I had the on-duty police officers expecting me in the lobby and when they saw me walk out were very cool in playing along with my request. I requested that they NOT walk out the door with me, but casually follow me at a reasonable distance as if they were policing the parking lot until I got into my car. At that point, the officers that stayed in the car to drive around the parking lot knew what vehicle I drove and would follow right behind me all the way to the bank. I felt MUCH safer handling this in that manner and to anyone looking for a manager making a bank run, I was damned hard to spot. What did other managers do there? They walked out in their full suit, carrying a big nylon bag that was obviously a bank bag! Amazingly in the time I worked there, nobody was robbed. Still, for that kind of money, the risk would've definitely brought about a sequel!

Nowadays with most every theater I know of having armored transport service, fortunately the days of bank runs are virtually over.

I'd forgotton about deposit cap policies, and your post shows the idiocy of those quite well. As a side note, the 75K deposits also show how tort reform only serves to keep any business above a certain cash-flow immune from meaningful correction by the courts.

I would suggest that any manager reading this who has to work under unreasonable cash handling policies print out the entire thread, and have it sent certified mail by a trusted third party to the president of the circuit (keeping a copy and the certified mail receipt of delivery). The law looks _very_ dimly on people who have been forewarned of a dangerous situation and do nothing to correct it. Think Firestone/Ford Explorer and you'll catch my drift.

Also, if you work with cash and cannot physically follow company policy to the letter because of situations such as Brad and I describe, document it and get other managers to document their own difficulties. One manager who goes into a corporate office saying that he can't follow policy will get himself fired. If half the managers in the circuit state this, along with documentation, there is a chance the policies might change. If they don't, trust me, you don't want to be around.

Reporter: Andy Cordan
Photojournalist: Al Devine

Some movie-goers at Hollywood 27 were the victims. While customers were inside, Metro police say four men were breaking into cars outside.

21 cars have been stolen from the Hollywood 27 parking lot this year. 14 of those cars were taken in June and the first part of July, so Metro auto theft detectives sat on this lot Wednesday, Thursday and Friday. Their hard work paid off.

Friday night, David Davis left the theater at 100 Oaks Mall when the 25 year old spots a police officer waiting for him at his car, a 1992 Chevy Caprice. Davis is lucky his car was not stolen.

"Friday night around 9:30 observed white Lincoln come thru the parking lot scoping out various cars," said Metro Police Sgt. David Elmore.

The white Lincoln is now parked at the Metro impound lot. Police tell News 2 they watched as these four men got out of that car and allegedly broke into Davis' Caprice. Police quickly took the men into custody.

Authorities tell News 2 David Maurice Horton, one of the four men arrested Friday night, is the owner of the white Lincoln, and it is a car that may also link the 20 year old to at least one other auto theft from the mall.

"Officers spotted the same white Lincoln belonging to Horton on Thompson Lane beside another car they ran both tags, nothing suspicious at the time but later that night the 2nd car turned up stolen."

That car was a Buick Lesabre that is still missing. So far the four men are charged with auto burglaries and possession of burglary tools, but more charges are possible.

Here is WTVF, channel 5's article:

Police Arrest Four Men For Car Break-ins

Metro Police have arrested four men for breaking into cars outside a popular movie theater.

The men were caught outside the Hollywood 27 theatre at 100 Oaks Friday.

Police said they have been staking out the lot since thefts began in early July.

The men arrested were suspected of being involved in a series of at least 20 break-ins.

The suspects were identified as Timothy A. Flemings, 18, David M. Horton, 20, Andrew M. Gentry, 19 and Roderick A. Walton, 19.

------------------
Evans A Criswell
Huntsville-Decatur Movie Theatre Info Site
 

However, we seem to recover just as many in our lot as disappear.. The detective in charge of stolen cars isiusually working security at our place once a week or more and every round he goes and checks the lot for suspicious vehicles.
 

Seems to me the Hollywood 18 up there had a similar problem, seems like they put people on the roof to stop it.
 

Many years ago (over 12) we would find the bank closest to each theater, and open a simple account there, just to make night drops. It was thought a bit safer.

A few years later, a different company buys our theaters. They make a deal to consolidate all accounts to one bank. So now, managers must make their drops at the nearest "XXXX" bank, some over 3-4 miles away. I remember thinking; "Here is an account-type who does not care for people's safety."

And, yes, the number of robberies at the drop-box went up.
 

The managers were not hurt, according to the NBC News report.

Here is their "article":

quote:

---

The Hottest Spot in Huntsville for Car Vandalism

HUNTSVILLE, Ala., Dec. 13 - 3312 South Parkway. It's an address police know well. That's where Hollywood 18 is... the hottest spot in Huntsville for car vandals.

"This whole windshield was shattered. They had used some kind of tool or instrument," says a woman who doesn't want her name given.

She just got her car back from the body shop. On Thanksgiving night, she parked it near the side of the movie theatre. When she returned, it was smashed, keyed, and just about everything she had inside was gone.

"(I) went back inside and asked for security, and they explained they didn't have any security. They hired off-duty police on the weekends."

The problem is not new. According to police records more than 300 cars have been broken into at Hollywood 18 in the last three years. Last month alone, there were 37.

"We have constantly recommended to management to put in extra lights and video cameras," says Huntsville Police Wendell Johnson.

Even though the theatre is not breaking any laws, Huntsville Police say management knows there's a problem, and is doing nothing to fix it.

"We're not getting much cooperation at all. Hopefully that'll change," said Johnson.

48News went to theatre management, and we, too, left empty-handed.

"I'm sorry, I can't comment. You'll have to contact our home office," the Hollywood manager on duty told us.

Our calls to Regal Cinemas were not returned. Frustration... but nothing compared to that of all those victims.

"I won't be going back there. I'm just frustrated. They're fully aware this is going on, and I'm not hearing anything from management that they're doing anything to improve the situation," said the unidentified victim.

---

------------------
Evans A Criswell
Huntsville-Decatur Movie Theatre Information Site

The problem is securing a parking lot is hard. City police officers are almost always in our lot (between calls when they are working on reports)and the ushers who keep order on our porch are also on the lookout. We foil quite a few, but usually have 3 or 4 a month. However, if you have 500 cars in the lot, on three sides of the building, you can't watch them all.

Theatre lots are appealing targets, as, they are typically full and there is a long period of time where no one is coming and going.
 

When I was working for Wometco in Miami, if there was one break-in/theft per month it was cause for concern, and Miami is a lot rougher than Huntsville.

I'll agree the keying sounds personal. I'd also bet the police and city council have more power than they are letting on. The theatre could be declared an "attractive nuisance" and the license to operate revoked until the problem was addressed. The tactic is commonly used on bars or places where drug deals are made.

Whether that is a large number or not depends on many factors. If there are at most 100 cars in the lot on Saturday night it is a signifigantly larger problem that if there are 1000 cars in that lot.

The problem with car burglaries is that they can be done quickly, covertly, and they are a low risk crime. I have had theatre staff foil many of them, and they frequently get plate numbers. Unfortunately, most of those plate numbers come back stolen and are quickly discarded by the thieves. Actually, I can't thin of one case where that plate number has been good.

Another thing to consider is if the property is a leased proprty or an owned one. If it is leased, the parking lot is probably the responsibility of the landlord, not the theatre. Additionally, cameras are useless. If you have a wide angle shot, you won't have the quality necessary for the video to be useful. If you have it zoomed in, you will wither have blind spots, or will need a ton more cameras.

Now, threatening to yank an operators license because of property crimes is absurd to say the least. Would you suggest that a shopping mall be shuttered for the same reason? Would you close the nearest Walmart because shoplifting was high?
 

Short of putting a police officer on every row of cars, you cannot secure your parking lot. Car burglaries are a very quick crime (and very low risk) that, unless you are fairly close, you probably won't see or hear it (there are, after all, lots of other cars blocking your view). That is not to say you shouldn't try, because you will deter some activity, but if you have a break in prone lot then you will never eliminate the problem. Additonally, it must be acknowledged that a large number of break ins occure because the owner left something of value in plain view (purse, wallet, etc).
 

Further, the idea of shutting down a business because of numerous unresolved complaints is not "absurd." Towns and cities grant licenses and COs and they can remove them at any time if the terms aren't met. I remember working on opening one theatre in Alabama where a pistol toting inspector came walking in and announced that if I was working on plumbing or electrical circuits he would haul me off to jail. About the time he finished his comments, his friend the plumber popped out of the bathroom, they chatted for five minutes, and work continued.

Typically, there is a pattern to parking lot thefts. For example, most will occur on Friday or Saturday nights when there is a good selection. Autos stolen will also often end up in the same chop-shop or neighborhood. Sometimes there will be an insider, who could even be a security guard.

One method of catching the culprits that works fairly well is to *secretly* have an officer with binoculars and walkie talkie on the building roof and another parked in an unmarked car nearby.

Having two cars per week stolen or vandalized over an extended period is not normal, nor is it acceptable, nor is there any excuse for any business to allow it to continue. I would suggest to Evans that he make a note of the problem on his website and advise people that they can contact the police department to find out whether the problem has been resolved. I would never attend a theatre with such an unresolved problem.

Another thing that needs to be considered about the AL theatre in question. What are the city's and state's regs on security? Do they allow for off duty police officers to work secuity jobs? What are the licensing requiremts for private guards? What are the power of private guards? What is the staffing level of the police dept (do they have enough officers to make patrols, or are officers going from one call to another all night)? Who bears responsibility for the parking lot (theatre or landlord)? What is the MO of the perps (do they hit once and move on, or are they hitting several cars at once)? What is the demographics of the area?

That right there is PATHETIC! That's more than one a day, and we all know that the odds are that the majority of these happened on the weekends when the theater was busy. So how many would that be on any one given Saturday night? A few per week is unacceptable, but more than one per day in the last month???

By the way, having a guy on the roof DOES work quite well...and it does NOT have to be an officer. Having a manager on the roof with a radio to two officers in unmarked cars in the parking lot is quite efficient.

...and if all else fails, a sniper on the roof works too!

You know Sean, you are right. I would much rather have patrol units, in a high crime area, watching cars than, say, preventing armed robberies, rapes and homicides.

Sean, I assume you have had a car stolen by your responses. The question I have for you is have you ever had to wait the tense couple of minutes for the Police when you are face to face with a hostile individual who claims to be armed and it threatening your life? While I have never had a car stolen Sean, I have been in the second situation, and, having been someone in that situation, I would perfer that the Police made sure they have enough manpower on the street to handle violent crimes BEFORE tying officers down on property crimes.

Now, for the question at hand..

Will putting someone on the roof help? Sure it will. Will it solve the problem? Not likely. There are many varibles that must be considered before anyone can make a determination as to the best way to approach the problem. Realize Sean, someone who has gotten good at stealing cars can get the car in a minute or two. Additionally, a signifigant number of departments nationwide have procedures that do not allow pursuits for property crimes, i.e. stolen autos, which means if they get the car running, they won.

I would venture to say that the 37 vehicles are largely the same makes and models. The types of vehicles being stolen and the modus operandi of the thefts will tell you a lot about who you should be looking for. Odds are, you have more than one group working this lot. The thefts themselves are probably being committed by juveniles who are delivering the cars to adults. These juveniles, if caught, will have little incentive to cooperate and turn in their "employer" out of a fear of reprisal and a realization that, with the way the juvenile justice system is set up, they won't recieve any signifigant punishment. More then likey, they will lawyer up and that will be the end of it.

The most effective solution for this problem is to "cut the head off" so to speak. If the adults running the operation can be captured, then the group will most likely just fall apart. Doing this requires an investment of detectives that the department may or may not be able to provide, again, depending on the crime rate of the area.

Now, there are things the theatre can do, whether they own the lot or not (which has yet to be determined). The largest thing that makes theatre lots attractive targets is that there is usually an hour and a half of downtime when almost no one is coming and going. To reduce this downtime, showtimes can be staggered, so you have shows starting and getting out more often. The more activity in your lot, the less likey you will be a target.

If the theatre can do so, again depending on the area, off-duty police officers would also be a good investment. In most cases, private security officers lack the training and experience to be a signifigant deterrance and are simply a waste of money. I would also hesitate to send theatre staff on lot patrols unless they understand that their sole purpose is to observe and report, preferably without the perps seeing them. However, in order to do this without undue risk on your employees, it has to be a well known fact that there are law enforcement officers on site. The deterrance level of your employees, and the saftey of your employees, depends on the size of the calvary on the other end of the radio. But, if you have police on site anyway, they should be the ones doing the lot checks.

Again, ultimate responsibility for this rests on who controls the lot. If this is a leased building, and it probably is, then the landlord, and not the theatre, is most likely responsible. Before casting blame at the theatre, it is best to make sure that they are the responsible party. Another thing to consider is that car thefts of this level indicate a large overall crime problem. If you have a problem of this size, it is likely the police department is understaffed. If the police department is understaffed, it is likely they are underfunded. Closing buisnesses and lowering the tax revenues of the city will only make the cities problems worse.

Brad, your sniper idea would deffinatly elimniate the problem.. Too bad we can't do that.
 

The "taking officers off patrol to protect property" isn't even a counter-argument that makes sense. In nearly all cases where this type of surveillance is done, it is done with off-duty officers rented by the theatre (which is where the whole lack of caring by Regal about its Huntsville customers becomes apparent). In fairness, I do remember one case (167th St Theatre in Miami) where the police were on the trail of a much larger operation and did the surveillance on their own. Police generally know how to divide their time for the most public good.

Summing up, my experience tells me you are dead wrong on nearly all counts, and until you have been witness to successes you may not change your mind. If you ever get to Huntsville, let me know. I will be happy to purchase two tickets of your choice of films at the Friday evening shows (9PM or later) at that Regal theatre, provided you park your personal car (rental cars not allowed) in an area where the thefts are known to occur.

Brad, you are right about having a manager on the roof, provided he or she is motivated enough and has sharp eyes and hearing. I suggested a cop because the cops know when and how to swoop, and a cop who has personally witnessed a felony is nearly impossible to stop in court. A manager could be intimidated under certain circumstances.

 

The reason we had officers on the roof was to capture the criminals for interrogation. During this time, there was a rash of breakins all over the city that had the same MO. The detective working the case hoped the arrests would generate some leads so he could find out who was behind it. He got his arrests, he got his leads, and took them down. Did that eliminate breakins in the city? Nope.. It eliminated the leaders of that one group who went down on some heavy felonies. The juvies breaking into the cars got wrist slaps. One thing you need to realize with this type of operation, however, is that the police will probably not move in until they have smashed the window, so they have something wiht more teeth than "burglar tools" to hold them on.

Again, in order to do anything really useful, the department will have to have some investigative resources assigned to these problems. Otherwise, you are going to pick up a few juvies and a few 18 and 19 years olds, but otherwise not make a large dent in the problem.

If the city does not want to invest the investigative resources, simple doing an active patrol of the lot will deter a signifigant number of problems.

After having reread the original article, I noticed a few things. First, the theatre does have weekend off-duty police security, which indicates they are doing something.

Also in the article the police chief suggested lighting and cameras. First, both of these are only options if the theatre is responsible for the parking lot (which has yet to be determined). Unless the parking lot is extremely dark, additional lighting will probably not make a signifigant impact. Cameras in a parking lot are not really a viable option either. With camera your choices are to have them zoomed in far enough that they produce good enough detail for them to have evidentary value, in which case you loose coverage, or you have them on wide angle observation, in which case they loose most evidentary value.

Now, to head off one argument that I am sure will be thrown up. Just because you can video tape a license plate, does not mean that plate is good. EVERY time we have gotten plate numbers of fleeing suspects when we have interrupted a vehicle burlarly, that plate comes back either stolen or as belonging to a different vehicle (basically, it hadn't been reported stolen yet).

Jerry, there are no simple solutions to crime. Nor is there any way to harden a parking lot to such an extent to make it burglar proof and still have an inviting theatre. Additionally, it has still not been determined who is responsible for that lot and what the police response to this has been.
 

Of course break-ins over an entire city won't be stopped if one lot stops car theft and break-ins. Many times the perps will just move to the next easy target. I agree that the police have to wait until a crime has been commited, and have no problem with that.

I also agree that an active patrol of the lot by at least a pair of employees can cut down incidents. I've used this myself. One employee patrolling could easily get mugged, and if that is a concern, there should be concern for the patrons' safety as well.

Responsibility isn't as much of an issue to customers as the perception of responsibility. The theatre will suffer in attendence and revenue because of the perception given by the newspaper article. Besides, the theatre obviously has some agreement to use the parking, and must pay into the CAM if it part of a mall. Unless customers are using an unauthorized ajoining lots illegally, the theatre has a liability issue, even with posted signs. The mall may share in that liability, but that is a secondary issue.

Example: one theatre where I worked many years ago was next to a supermarket, and the parking lot was sloped. The store had multiple signs in the lot, stating that the market was not responsible to damage caused by shopping carts, but by having unattended carts that repeatedly damaged cars and not having barrier strips, corrals, and proper policing of the lot, they were totally responsible for all property damage and the signs were there to discourage the gullible. A judge may look askance at an isolated incident, but uncorrected multiple incidents of property damage or assault will receive entirely different treatment. BTW, one of those carts rolled down the parking lot one time and hit MY brand new car. All I had to do was walk into the store and explain the situation, and the manager filled out the paperwork and took care of the repair. I wish businesses were that responsive today.

Cameras can be more of a liability in parking lots than a help. One shopping center was successfully sued a couple of years back because a customer was raped in the lot in full view of the cameras. The customer had been purposely led to believe by the promenent cameras and signs that there was security that wasn't there.

Parking lots can be "hardened" by the use of fencing, water barriers and throrny plantings, but it is expensive. There are few 100% foolproof solutions to crime, but there are many that cut crime to a much more reasonable level than the customers at this theatre are experiencing. Shrugging one's shoulders and saying it is the mall's problem isn't one of those.

 

Jim I sent you an email with my opinion on this.
 

I'm not suggesting the theatre do nothing. What I am suggesting is that, if it is a leased location, the theatres options are limited and that, absent of more information, we really don't know if they are doing everything in their power or not.

One thing that has not been considered is how many of the 37 incidents in the last month were "attempted" crimes and how many were "completed" crimes? It could very well be that a signifigant portion of these were interrupted by theatre staff or security. Or, it could be that they were all completed. We do not know.

Liability is another issue entirely, and would probably depend on the wording of the lease. Another thing that has to be considered in all this is what authority theatre staff or theatre security would have in the lot. Basically, can the theatre staff legally force people off the lot if they are acting in a suspicious manner? Most likely, if the theatre has no standing in the lot, then they will have no liability (again, this depends on the laws of the state).

You are absolutly correct in saying that there is no foolproof method of crime prevention. One thing that I have found is true, at least in this area (and I presume that this holds true nationwide), is that a signifigant number of victims of car burlaries made their vehicles inviting targets by leaving something of value in plain view. The sad reality of modern life is that people must be vigilant to prevent being victimized.

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"Running through life at 24 frames per second"
 

Note to brain-dead Megastar: By allowing the announcement that $27,000 was stolen on a week night, you've just declared open hunting season on your managers and theatres. Nice going.

Note to brain-dead TV station: Reporting news doesn't require offering enticements to potential robbers. Send your news team back to journalism ethics class.

I don't get it. What do you mean they've declared open hunting season on their managers and theaters?
 

Now everybody knows the amount of money that can be there on a weeknight. It is never a good idea to disclose to anybody how much money (cash) is counted or physically at a location.

Haven't you ever noticed the sticker on the gas station window "Cashier never has more than $20 in the register" It is there to protect the poor clerk from getting robbed at 2 in the morning.
 

Ken, read back in my much earlier posts in this thread. We are going over old ground again. We are going over old ground again. We are...

Jerry, if the information did come from the police, how can you blame the chain?
 

If it is a choice between pissing off a police officer who more than likely won't do jack shit about finding and arresting the robber (been there, done that, got the t-shirt), or making the theatre less attractive to copycats, guess which choice wins?

You do what you want. Tell 'em at the outset how they walked into the break room (second door on the left) pointed a gun at a female employee, and used her to gain entrance to the managers office (third door on the left, no alarm) and used the combination 24 left 42 right 56 left back to 90 to open the safe. The news media can report that too.

Robberies are a threat to life. I have no latitude in my opinions on the subject. Until there is a law that prevents the disclosure of amounts stolen, Joe Friday can yell at me until he is blue in the face. "That information will have to be determined at a later time after a corporate audit, I cannot comment further."

Apologies in advance to Jerry: I'm not trying to stir anything up. Just asking.

The cashier, a 30 something woman, said. "I can't. It's not mine" The schocked robber demanded the money again and the cashier told him the same thing only louder. This got my Dad's attention. He could hear her through the wall(his office was next door). He came out to the foyer just in time to see the frustrated thief raise his hands above his head and curse. He then stormed out of the theatre. My Dad
then followed him outside. There was and still is a park accross the street from the theatre where there was usually a cop or two on the beat. Sure enough there were two cops nearby. My Dad yelled at the top of his lungs " OFFICERS" They heard and looked over at him as he pointed at the running thief ( still with gun in hand). The cops gave chase..guy threw is gun away..and they caught him. He got the spend th winter in a warm jail cell.

My Dad then spent the next 1/2 hour trying to explain (loudly) how the cashier had nearly gotten herself killed. She still maintained that she couldn't give away what wasn't hers.
 

The issue is that detectives are trained to get as much information as possible as quickly as possible. It makes good sense, since people forget details over even short lengths of time, and insiders that might be party to the robbery get a chance to synch their stories. In doing their job, these detectives can get quite agressive and intimidating. They also have been known to lie about the consequences of not cooperating fully with them. None of this alters the facts that 1. a lot of the robbers never get caught, or are only caught incidental to another robbery, and 2. broadcasting the amount stolen is a sure-fire way to encourage copycats.

On a slightly related subject, what do y'all think of money drop boxes in the theater, where the manager does not have the key? Usually this type of seup is used when you have armored car pickup during the day. I always thought this procedure was bad news, because supposing the theif does not believe you don't have the key?
 

This CAN discourage a would be robber as well. The thief knows up front he will probably not get away with much.

According to local press reports, several people allegedly used (the manager's) keys to enter a Regal megaplex after closing time. Once inside they disabled the alarm and allegedly made off with the cash in the safe. Management called the cops and the cops questioned all the employees, who in turn fingered the suspects. The cops were able to recover most of the cash from the suspects' homes. Charged so far:

20-year-old man, ex-Regal employee -- burglary and theft. Some marijuana also was found with his cut of the money.

20-year-old man -- burglary and theft.

18-year-old woman, Regal manager -- conspiracy.

17-year-old girl, Regal employee -- receiving stolen property (some of the cash).

16-year-old girl -- burglary and theft.

It has been 828 days since the last post.