This is topic Saving Money with Compact Florescent Lamps in forum Ground Level at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 04-19-2001, 01:09 AM:
At great expense, we ordered 38 compact florescent light bulbs for our lobby. The total cost was somewhere around $950. A compact florescent lamp is supposed to outlast 6 incandescent lamps. The total cost for 228 incandescent PAR 30 lamps would be around $1,150. Of course we didn’t let the 38 incandescent lamps burn out before replacing them. We will use them in the booth where the lights are only one for 15 minutes to one hour at a time. The lights in the lobby are on for 12 hours per day.38 incandescent PAR 30 lamps at 75 watts would use 2,850 watts of electricity. 38 compact florescent lamps at 15 watts will use 570 watts of electricity.
We are doing this because of the current energy hysteria here in California. In theory we will save just on the cost of lamp replacement. But that theory is blown because we didn’t let the incandescent lamps burn out and thus using their full life. But we also hope to save money by the lobby lights using 20% of the energy that they were using before. Now we don’t expect to see a huge drop in the utility bill because we still have 5 Xenon lamps that can’t be run on less power and we still have 7 HVAC units on the roof and I’m sure they are energy hogs.
But you do what you can.
Posted by Mike Spaeth (Member # 524) on 04-19-2001, 01:15 AM:
My company requires the use of compact flourescents. I haven't seen the numbers side of it, but it makes sense. I have heard from too many people how much money is actually saved from using these, plus the light output is phenominally more.
Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 04-19-2001, 01:28 AM:
Remember you can't use them on a dimmer circuit, so you won't be able to use them in the auditoriums.
Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 04-19-2001, 01:54 AM:
The lobby is noticeably brighter.I had to remove a couple of rheostats to install the florescent lamps in the lobby.
Strangely all of the work lights in the booth are on rheostats. 
When I want work lights I want them on bright!
We will not be using the florescent lamps in the auditoriums.
I have been in one theatre that uses florescent tubes and they are dimmable. It is a rather nice theatre too.
In Washington DC I was in an Art House that used unfiltered, florescent tubes as house lights. When the film was ready to start, bam! Out went the lights. At the end of the feature; Flick, flick, flicker bam, they snapped on. That was ugly. 
Posted by Jerry Chase (Member # 660) on 04-19-2001, 08:34 AM:
If you have recessed ceiling lights that need to be dimmed, check into the ER (ellipsoidal reflector) bulbs. Depending on the situation, you can often cut the wattage down to 50 watts where a 75 watt or stronger R series bulb is needed.CFs give wierd light. I hate it when restaurants use these becuase the food looks alien. Some of our house has CF, some has regular flourescent, and some incandescent. I was recently trying to judge color balance on an ink jet photo printout, and drove myself crazy when trying to find the "correct" light to view it in. The CF had a spike that made the green pigment look almost like day-glo.
Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 04-19-2001, 04:19 PM:
This morning I came in the theatre and turned an all the lights. When I looked up I was horrified! 
It's still dark in the lobby. I looked up and saw that the light bulbs were on and just barely glowing. Then the phone started to ring. I handled two telephone calls and by the time I put the phone down, the lamps were almost to full brightness. They seem to take 2 or 3 minutes to warm up.I haven't noticed that they make the food look any different. After all, it's a florescent tube in the popper and the warmers with a yellow filter on it. The color is cooler than with the incondescent but you would have had to know what it looked like before. I'm sure our local taste police will complain; But he complains about everything. There is just a little bit more glare than before.
But over all, I like it. Ky hasn't seen the full effect yet. I'll be interested in his impressions.
Posted by Greg Borr (Member # 386) on 04-19-2001, 04:22 PM:
Compact Fluorescent's have come a long way, the newer electronic C.F's can be dimmed, but not with a traditional dimmer. You have to purchase a C.F. dimmer. As for weird light, depends on the lamps you have selected, compact fluorescent and all fluorescent lamps for that matter are avaialable in several different varieties. For general lighting purposes I would suggest selecting a lamp that has a 4100K color temperature and is above 80cri (color rendering index)
The original C.F.'s were 2700K and 70CRI, with electromagnetic ballasts that caused flickering. Not only was this annoying, but you couldn't see a whole lot under this light. Alot of these lamps are still being produced and sold as bargains, so buyer beware.
Fluorescent lighting when applied correctly can be not only a cost savings but a better lighting technolgy all together.
Greg Borr
Ready Theatre Systems
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-19-2001, 06:03 PM:
Indeed there are a number of ballasts that can be dimmed quite easily. Advance makes at least three different ballasts that are capable of dimming. I have installed and programmed allot of dimming systems in Universitys and buildings that are completely florescent based. The new underground library at Brigham Young University is almost all dimmable florescent and that place has at least 2000 fixtures!
However...The big problem is fading them down and out. Most dimmer controlers and or ballasts will pop off when you reach the 15 to 20% level. This looks tacky to say the least. Cineplex has also used allot of dimmable florescent systems in their auditoriums. They are marginal as far as performance goes. This may be due to the older dimmer designs that I have seen them installing. The other problem is that with certain ballasts the lamps have to be aged in for 40 to 60 hours before they will dim properly and not ageing them in can cause very shortened lamp life. That can create a customer usage problem and cause confusion when rooms are re-lamped.
Strides are being made with this field but IMHO it is still not suitable for use in Motion picture auditoriums.
Lobbies and other areas however should make full use of these technologies to conserve what ever energy they can. Lamps that are on for long hours will benefit most from this sort of arrangement.
Mark @ GTS
Posted by Josh Jones (Member # 447) on 04-19-2001, 08:15 PM:
The Fargo Theatre installed dimmable fluorescent tubes in the auditorium. They dim nice until about 30% then pop, black. Its worse when they come on. flick-flick-flick-ting-FLASH. they start at about 50%. when they were first installed, they had problems staying lit at half house, which is used for credits. The auditorium also has neon, which is extinguished instantly when the projector starts. for those who are currious I shall post a pic. 
cool, huh?
Josh
Posted by Joe Schmidt (Member # 822) on 04-19-2001, 09:33 PM:
Wait, wait, wait, just a minute here. I tink so ALL youse guys has forgotton that if you run incandescent lamps on direct current, slightly lower than rated voltage, the life is extended substantially, especially if you ALWAYS dim them up and down, never switch abruptly. And it's easy to build. Start with a motorized autotransformer dimmer made by whoozits [I forget name] add on big diodes and capacitors and you're there.This is especially good if you have house lights which are hard to get to for bulb replacement. You wait for one or two to burn out then get the scaffold in and replace them all at once then it's good for several years again.
It's splitting hairs to worry about electricity used by house lights which aren't on that much compared with what the projector xenon lamps use and you can't cut back on that!
Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 04-19-2001, 11:50 PM:
Also be aware that some of the CF units are not designed to be installed in recessed fixtures or inverted at all!!! We found this out the hard way with about 20 CF units that were all dead from overheating in less than 2 days just before the theatre was to open I like the idea of using DC for incandescent fixtures, especially those that get dimmed a lot. Wonder how I can get (or make) some kind of DC supply to do this made that won't be an occupational hazard....
Aaron
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-24-2001, 01:13 PM:
Josh, that's a great auditorium. How many seats? Does it have a balcony?
Posted by Tom Sauter (Member # 616) on 04-24-2001, 05:31 PM:
I just improved the lighting in two theatres originally equipped with recessed Par 38 fixtures. Even with the maximum 150 Watts per fixture the light only goes straight down. I installed 75 watt halogen wide angle ellipsoidal reflector floods with a few socket extensions to bring the face of the lamp almost flush with the ceiling.We now use 50% of the electricity and my light meter says we're 3 times brighter (and evenly lit)!
If you're concerned about strange color temperatures from CF's try some Rosco CTO gels like 3409 or 3408 to balance with incandescent fixtures. Tape into a tube and slide over ... watch out for hot parts of the fixture which will quickly undo your work. We use the same trick to balance Xenon followspots with halogen stage lighting.
Posted by Josh Jones (Member # 447) on 04-24-2001, 05:41 PM:
The fargo seats 870 including balcony which is 20 or 30 seats less than they had before the remodel. I volenteered projection for 3 years on weekend and show up on occasion for late night shows. This Friday 11:30 is Pulp Fiction!
www.fargotheatre.com/ Josh
Posted by Paul Konen (Member # 41) on 04-25-2001, 10:02 AM:
Ian, I have noticed the same thing about the lights "warming" up.We have them installed in our booth and they do the same thing, turn on and warm up to full brightness.
Paul.
Posted by Don Anderson (Member # 397) on 04-26-2001, 07:38 PM:
Josh, that is one kewl theatre! Hope ya get a better print of PULP FICTION than we got. We ran it for a midnight show. I believe reel 3 was fixed by some amateur who spliced into it midway and had it backwards for about 10 minutes of its run. Our print was in very bad condition and scratched. We didn't get the print until the night of the run, so we couldn't check it. Who would ever thing some moron would splice part of it backward in between reels. Duh????
Posted by Josh Jones (Member # 447) on 04-27-2001, 12:46 AM:
well, dont count on it.
We ran it last weekend for about 300 people. In reel 1 there was a several second chunk which was spliced in backwards It is quite dirty near reel changes, and the focus will drift out near the start of the reel, probably due to improper winding. in the middle of the reel, it is quite watchable, not bad for a Dolby A print. Our print is on acetate stock, which was quickly discovered durring makeup. It is in much better condition than the print of Taxi Driver we ran though.
That thing almost fell apart.What's that, your hungry for some more?
Josh
Posted by Alan Plester (Member # 852) on 04-30-2001, 12:02 PM:
Josh
Very nice looking house,any pics of the booth?
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 04-30-2001, 12:21 PM:
Which print of Taxi Driver did you get? There were new prints of that title made just a few years ago. I believe that the new prints had a Dolby SR track.
Posted by Josh Jones (Member # 447) on 04-30-2001, 08:29 PM:
Yes, there are pics of the booth, no they are not on the internet yet. As for taxi D, I think ours was an origional print, it had type A NR and it was acetate.Josh
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 04-30-2001, 08:44 PM:
Why not submit the pics for the Projection Picture Warehouse instead of just posting them in this thread which will soon be forgotten?
Posted by Josh Jones (Member # 447) on 05-01-2001, 09:55 AM:
I havent because at this time those are the only decent pictures I have. I hope to get a full set this summer.Josh