Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: RCA security camera

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Posted by Rick Meister (Member # 689) on 05-06-2001, 11:55 PM:

I have been given an RCA tc1501 camera. I would like to use it to monitor my lobby after I send all the employees home for the night. The guy that i got it from said to hook it up to a vcr and then a tv and it would work. I have done everything I can think of but no luck yet! have had posters and vending machines stolen and so need something to help prevent this. Does anyone have any ideas?

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 05-07-2001, 01:08 AM:

Video output of the camera to video input to the VCR. Power up the camera with suitable power source. You might have to have the VCR in the record mode to see an output to the tv set.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-07-2001, 04:09 AM:

Make sure to select the aux input or line input if the vcr so requires it.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 05-07-2001, 05:48 PM:

If you select the vcr aux input as Brad suggested, and your camera is working, you'll probably have a picture.

I was in error on previous post - it should not be necessary to have the VRC on "record". Sorry....

Posted by Gordon Hedges III (Member # 863) on 05-07-2001, 06:16 PM:

Just like everyone else just said, I would like to repeat. Make sure that the camera is hooked up properly. (i.e. Camera OUTPUT - vcr INPUT) To find the Auxiliary channel, take the remote (if any) and try 00 (ZERO-ZERO). I've had a couple of vcr's that have more than one AUX channel. If you still can't figure it out, here are a couple of ideas:

1. Get a five to ten year old. I've seen one that was able to hook up a whole computer system.

2. Trade the camera in for a mean hungry dog.

But seriously, you should be able to find someone near you who can set this up quite nicely. And you can offer some passes for their help.

Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 05-08-2001, 10:07 AM:

Look for an input select switch among all the teensy buttons that manufacturers all like to use these days. Sometimes, (often) this button/function can only be accessed from the remote! You might find this in the menu under "vcr set-up" or something like that. Plug the RCA plug from the camera into the yellow video IN plug on the back of your VCR.

A stolen vending machine? Are they bringing their own hand-trucks, too?

Sometimes I wonder just who is in control, and who sat in front of the TV for 20 years and is just ready to snap...

Locally, Saturday, an old business on the main drag thru my part of town was vandalized. Busted all their glass countertops, and all the plate glass windows, along with turning on all the water faucets in the restrooms. The water ruined lots of stock in the basement, that flooded nearly 36 inches deep, and wrecked the furnace. Not enough insurance to fix everything, so after 48 years, they are closing. It's a crying shame.

These old people wouldn't hurt a fly.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 05-08-2001, 10:30 AM:

A few more possibilities, depending on what the problem is:

Check to make sure that you have the right kind of power supply for the camera. Most security cameras run on 12vdc, so you need to check what the camera requires and make sure that you are giving it what it wants.

Also, check the lens diaphragm; if the screen is black, make sure that it's not set to f/22 or if the screen is white, make sure it's not set to f/1.2. You'll have to do some experimenting to get the exposure right, unless you want to get fancy with test equipment (oscilloscopes, etc.), which probably isn't worth the trouble for a security camera.

If all else fails, ditch it and get another one. Security cameras can be had for almost nothing on the used market. (I keep meaning to set up a live webcam thing, so I know a bit about security cameras, which are what people normally use for this purpose, since the picture quality is usually passable and they're cheaper than "real" video cameras.)

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-08-2001, 11:37 AM:

Rick said: "I would like to use it to monitor my lobby after I send all the employees home for the night."

AFAIK, the longest NTSC VHS tape is T-200, or 10 hours at EP speed. (And in my experience, shorter tapes like T-120 or T-160 are more reliable). Has anyone had experience using a video disk recorder like TIVO ( http://www.tivo.com/flash.asp?page=discover_index ) to record a night's worth of video? Also, for nighttime use, you may need additional light or infrared to illuminate the area you are watching.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 05-08-2001, 12:17 PM:

John makes a good point. The "right" way to set up a security camera is to get a time-lapse VTR that records and plays back only a few frames per second, which should be enough to see what is going on, while significantly extending the running time before the tape needs to be changed. On a budget, it might be cheaper just to get two $99-type VCRs and program the second one to start after the tape is expected to run out on the first one, with maybe a couple of minutes' overlap on the two tapes.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-08-2001, 02:40 PM:

And Scott beat me to it! Yes, I wholeheartedly agree with not using the time lapse vcrs. When you are looking for something, if you blink even just a tad you may pass right on by it. Also, if you do catch something on the tape, good luck in trying to get a good freeze frame. Running two VCRs that are permanently programmed to cycle between each other every night of the week is a much better option. It also allows you to set up a microphone to record the audio after hours.

Also, start with 14 tapes. Use 2 per night and record over the oldest tape weekly. That way if something happens that takes you a few days to realize, you've got a week's worth of footage. Also remember that anything over a T-120 will start using the thinner tape, so if 12 hours is enough delay for you, then stick with those as opposed to T-160 tapes. They will last much longer and are significantly cheaper.

One last thing, a T-120 running EP speed will actually have about 6 hours and 12 minutes. Since you will not have a time/date stamp burned into the corner of the image, program your machines to start on an hour, exactly 6 hours apart. For example:
VCR1 12:00 (midnight) to 6:15am
VCR2 6:00am to 12:15pm

This way you will have somewhere between 10-12 minutes overlap (more than safe enough to not miss anything) and you can reset the hour counter at the start of the tape and use it to see exactly what time something happened. Also, programming the machines for a few minutes over the tape's capacity will on most machines eject the tape, flash a light and/or sound a beeping alarm as a reminder for the opening manager to stick 2 more tapes in the machine for the next night's activities.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-08-2001, 02:54 PM:

Scott's and Brad's suggestion of using two recorders with slightly overlapping recording times is excellent. I also like Brad's idea of keeping a week's worth of recordings before reusing the tape. You could probably buy two decent quality VHS recorders for much less than the cost of a TIVO, and have a "hard copy" original video and sound recording of any criminal activity for evidence.

Obviously the camera(s) should be hidden (or use some decoys), and the video recorders in a locked location.

Posted by Jim Ziegler (Member # 86) on 05-08-2001, 03:06 PM:

Rick,

Why not just keep an employee in the lobby? That will deter just about anything that may happen.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-08-2001, 03:35 PM:

Jim --- From Rick's original posting, it sounded like the thefts were occuring after hours, evidently by someone with keys to the building and the ability to disarm any alarm. (Although that would narrow the list of suspects, wouldn't it?).

Posted by Evans A Criswell (Member # 381) on 05-08-2001, 05:20 PM:

This thread reminds me of something I did in our, at the time, ONE computer lab where all of our Silicon Graphics computers with external SCSI hard drives were kept. The computer science department had recently had some external hard disks stolen, so since one of our computers was a Silicon Graphics Indy with an Indycam, I wrote a program to capture an image once a minute, and placed the camera in a far corner of the lab so it could see anyone in the room. I analyzed the average brightness of the images captured and only kept them if they were "bright enough" so that images were not kept if the lights were off. The best part of the whole thing was needing to notify people that surveillance was in use. My little note beside the light switch that read "Please turn off the lights when you leave in order to conserve disk space." was a great conversation piece.

The latest image, with timestamp, was viewable from anywhere on the net via a secret WWW page I had set up at the time. I worked in another building and could see who was in the room at any time.

Like Brad said, if a person were not where the camera is looking for a minute, the camera may not catch them, and even if it did, it may not be enough evidence to convict them of doing something. The system could be made more sophisticated so that it would take images much more often, like once per second, and only keep them if there is enough light AND there is motion. The motion sensitivity could make it possible to use this type of system, coupled with today's large, cheap hard drives.

It's a thought. Computers are relatively cheap and webcams are cheap. Software could be rigged up to capture during the night and with the proper intelligence (motion sensitivity, brightness), if used at night after anyone has left, there should be no images stored during the night unless something moved.

That was a very fun little programming project, especially in 1995 and 1996 when I had it going. It would probably be much easier today with more modern equipment and might be a cheap solution to surveillance.

------------------
Evans A Criswell
Huntsville-Decatur Movie Theatre Info Site

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-08-2001, 05:48 PM:

Yes Evans, but could you set it up to automatically email pictures to an email address when motion was detected AND dial up a pager? Perhaps you should get into automated security surveilance.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 05-08-2001, 07:11 PM:

Hmmm...idea for Evans: how about a serial interface for the VCR that could start recording as soon as motion is detected. In essence, then, the computer becomes the motion detector that turns on the VCR as soon as there is a significant change between two successive images between certain times of day. It's probably a needlessly complicated idea, but it could be an interesting project. If I didn't completely suck at coding, I'd consider trying it.

Posted by Evans A Criswell (Member # 381) on 05-08-2001, 09:15 PM:

Brad, Scott,

It would be easier to simply get a large hard drive and store the images there, and yes, someone could be emailed (with the image as an attachment) if certain criteria were met. If the camera has utilities that can be invoked from the command line to store a captured image into a file or the same thing accomplished through an C-callable API, then anything you can do from C could be done with the images. Substitute Perl for C in the above sentences as well.

I feel that a hard drive would be more dependable and durable than a VCR over time. Hard drives are dirt cheap and there are no tapes to deal with. Simply delete images regularly after examination.

------------------
Evans A Criswell
Huntsville-Decatur Movie Theatre Info Site

Posted by Rick Meister (Member # 689) on 05-08-2001, 09:43 PM:

thanks for the help guys, I got it to work ok. Have seen better pictures but this will do until something else comes along. I think with it hanging in the lobby most of the problems will stop anyway just from the site of it.
and no they didn't use a dolly to get the machines, they were small 25 cent type machines ( that do very well I might say ).
my biggest concern is the posters and the glass in the front lobby. we are on main st. and a couple doors down from a bar that can sometimes get kinda wild, but thats life in a small town in south dakota.
I do use a baby monitor in the booth after everyone leaves,it has saved me a couple of times from problems in the projection booth. I recommend it for those theaters that can't have help or can't aford to keep the people around after the show starts.
thanks again for all the help and entertainment that I find on this site.