Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Concession Per cap

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Posted by Lance C. McFetridge (Member # 95) on 05-14-2001, 02:17 PM:

Any good ideas to raise the per cap in the concession area. Has anyone had good results with free refills on certain sizes. What about combo's. I am trying to get away from raising prices, and am re-educating my staff to stimulate increased sales.
thanks
lance

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-14-2001, 02:34 PM:

I don't own or manage a theatre, but am often a patron. Things that entice me to buy more concessions are:

1. The smell and sight of popcorn being freshly popped.

2. Combo "deals" on drinks and popcorn, or for upsizing.

3. Short lines at the concession stand. Convenient vending machines if I don't want to wait in line.

4. Cheerful, attentive staff who engage customers in conversation (e.g. "What movie are you seeing tonight? Oh, that's a good one, but it's long --- would you like a larger popcorn to last through the movie?")

5. Name brand packaged candies at prices low enough to encourage purchase, rather than trying to sneak them in.

6. Cleanliness and proper food handling procedures.

I'm not a fan of the free refills, as I would have to leave the auditorium to take advantage. I prefer a larger size upfront.

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John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Posted by Manuel Francisco Valencia (Member # 710) on 05-14-2001, 03:32 PM:

I believe speed of service is perhaps the best way to increase percap. Being a manager, slow concessionist or long concession lines is the number one complaint I get. When a patron walks into a theatre and wants something to eat they look at the concession lines and think "Can I get in line and get something in time to catch my movie?" As far as prices go I would lower the prices on all the large items to where they were a few cents more than the mediums. True you are not getting as much money per item sold but you will probably see a rise in the amout of items sold. In time this might increase your percap.

Posted by Ky Boyd (Member # 23) on 05-14-2001, 03:56 PM:

John's comment about fresh popping corn is right on the money. At our theatre we fire up a batch of corn to put the smell and sizzle in the air even if we don't really need to pop any corn. A batch of corn costs about 25 cents to pop and the fresh smell really gets to people.

Personally, neither Ian or I like upselling (example: "for a quarter more you can get the gargantuan popcorn or soda) and we discourage it with our staff. We strongly encourage suggestive selling (ie. suggesting another complementary item such as a coke with popcorn a cookie with coffee or tea) and encourage each staff member to develop their own style of suggestive selling so that it comes across as friendly and conversational rather than something that they are forced to say.

Combo deals are good. Our jr. combo (kiddie popcorn and kiddie soda) helped our per cap. We don't do free refills on any size. This is because we discovered that many customers will save their bag and bring it back for their refill on the next visit which does nothing to help your per cap. Also in some states, if you have the sensorhead soda fountains with the long rods that sense the foam, you can't do refills. The theory being, I guess, that the patron might have touched their lips to the lip of the cup (never mind that its got a lid and straw). So, if you want to do soda refills be sure to check with your local and state health codes.

Of course, kids films are a great way to boost that ol' per cap too.

And keep those lines short - add staff and open more stations or adjust your showtimes so that you don't end up with 5 movies starting in the same 10 minute period. Well spaced showtimes reduce concessions lines, increase concessions patronage and improve percaps!

Posted by Evans A Criswell (Member # 381) on 05-14-2001, 04:15 PM:

I'm a bit different as a customer when it comes to buying concessions. I am more likely to buy concession items at a theatre that has excellent presentation quality. This means that in my area, I buy most concession items at the Regal River Oaks Cinema 8 in Decatur and at the Carmike 10 in Huntsville, and often do so simply to improve their per-cap. If I have to wait in line, I usually do not get concessions. At the two theatres I mentioned, I've seldom had to wait in line to buy concessions.

I hate it when I actually want concessions and there is only one person working the concession stand and there are 6 or 7 people in line. Typically, in that case, I say "Forget it." The key to running a good concession area is to have enough people working to handle the number of customers and be able to do the transactions quickly.

It is possible to calculate the number of servers needed to serve a given influx of customers based on how fast the servers are per transaction. This is an "operations research" area (specifically, "queueing theory") and there are many textbooks which describe those types of problems. Any business that is going to serve a large number of customers should perform those calculations and model the situation based on expected customers for any given time of day to do a sanity check to be sure their facility and staffing level will be able to handle demand.

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Evans A Criswell
Huntsville-Decatur Movie Theatre Info Site

Posted by Mark Lensenmayer (Member # 134) on 05-14-2001, 07:24 PM:

As a customer, I will NOT wait in a long line. I've seen lines recently as long as 15 people, and I will not wait. I can do without concessions very nicely.

In this area, Marcus is fastest, followed by AMC, with the faux-Cinemark theatres coming in last by far. I've been to one Cinemark where there was NO ONE at the concession counter.

BUT, at the local singleplex, with a manager you can talk with and order beer and pizza, I ALWAYS order food, as I know the money will go to improve the business. The owner here really cares, and does his best to provide good service. (The theatre is STUDIO 35, and the owner is John Conti.)

Mark Lensenmayer

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 05-14-2001, 08:56 PM:

As a customer, I'll agree completely that _seeing_ and smelling corn being popped is a big deal, even if only psychological. It reinforces the idea that the corn isn't stale and the smell can often lure customers to the stand. Also, if I know that the corn quality is consistently good at a particular theatre, I will be more likely to buy it at that theatre in the future (and vice-versa). Real butter (and signs stating that real butter is used) is also a factor. I really hate that gross fake-butter stuff and am unlikely to buy popcorn at places that use it.

Short lines (as others have said) are also a big deal, as are speedy employees. This can be helped somewhat if the prices on the signs include tax and end in even dollar amounts or multiples of $.10 or something like that. Keeping the selection of items limited is also helpful here.

Non-outrageous prices are also important. I know too well that theatres depend on the stand for much of their profit, but $2.50 for a lousy candy bar is insane.

I agree that "free refills" are basically useless, although they're probably a nice scam, since almost no one uses them.

Another helpful thing is to make it obvious to customers in line what size drink/popcorn is represented by "small" "medium" and "large"--this avoids having the customer spend time deciding while at the front of the line.
That's all I can think of right now...

Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 05-14-2001, 11:30 PM:

Short lines are a large part of a good per cap. Outrageous prices also effect your per cap. The problem I see with a lot of theatre chians is they try to get the same markup on items like bottle water and candy that they do dor pop and popcorn. Its not possible. We sell a regular sized Snickers bar for $2.30 and it will be $2.40 by the end of the summer I'm sure. This is insane. I can't remember the last tiem we sold a Snickers bar. Now, if the bar was $.75 or even $1, we would definately sell a LOT more. As it is, people just sneak in candy.

Suggestive selling is the next most important thing. Don't put upselling in front of this (though it is important). Think of it like this, which would you rather have, that extra $.25 from them getting a large pop instead of a medium, or an extra $2 from them buying a candy? Combos are excellent for suggestive selling. With a properly marketed Kiddie Combo and Super Combo you can clean up.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-15-2001, 03:16 AM:

I agree the biggest tricks is to have the smell of fresh popcorn in the air and SHORT lines. Those two items will get your customer's attention more than anything. Repeat customers are a little more tricker to get to the stand. Evaluate what happens...

The smell of fresh popcorn is in the air, but on the customer's last visit did they get stale corn in their bag?

Was the corn they got crunched up into little tiny pieces because the concessionist "over-handled" the corn or did that incredibly stupid "mashing/patting" it down to cram it into the warmer bin? No one likes tiny popcorn kernels.

Was the corn over salty because someone thought they could scam the customer into buying a larger drink? (I personally am a salt freak, but these people need to realize that doing that is irritating to many customers and they will never buy popcorn at that theater again...even if they have only one instance of this!) Something very important to remember that many people just don't seem to understand is that as the day progresses, the concessionist should not put as much salt into the kettle with the corn as he/she should on the first several rounds for consistency. On the other hand, make sure that the concessionists ARE pre-salting the kernels a little bit, for popping without salt under the idea of "the customer will add salt later if he/she wants" does NOT work! It will kill the flavor.

Spend a couple of hours at the popper yourself and experiment with what makes the best popcorn. Try variations of just how much kernels to scoop into the cup and if you have the knowledge, tweek the oil pump. (Of course you should know precisely how much oil "should" be coming out per batch so you can put it back if you make things worse.) Your situation may find that if you fill the kernel cup 1/2 of an inch from the top and increase the oil pump by an extra second that your finished corn will pop larger and FAR more tasty than using the "specs" outlined with the kettle and oil pump. Each popper is a little bit different, but believe me I had LOTS of people who would come by the theater a few times a week and purchase a large bucket of popcorn to go along with their video rental...just because the popcorn was that damned good! I guarantee you that it did not taste that good when everything was set to "spec". Obviously, experimentation with your specific popper is the key.

When a customer askes for butter, regardless of whether it is "real" butter or not, do your concessionists put two little squirts on the top of the stack and pass it over to the customer, or do they "layer" the butter in between scoops? Generally if customers want the topping, they want it throughout. They should not have to ask and I have received many a compliment by having my staff do this automatically. Some people do not like to ask and seriously appreciate the extra effort.

Is the popcorn tossed into the bucket/bag and then handed to the customer, or does the concessionist "shake/tap the bottom of the bucket" during the filling? Some customers are smart enough to realize that as soon as the bucket is slid down the counter that the corn will settle and feel cheated. Other customers don't realize it until they see you do it, but ALL appreciate it.

Is the corn mounded above the top of the bucket/bag a little bit? Some theaters have a policy of not permitting a "mounded" portion of corn to be served for fear it will spill and waste employee payroll time to sweep up the spilled corn, but a bucket/bag of popcorn that is "leveled" just doesn't look like the picture on the price board. Anyone remember the movie "Falling Down"? People like to get what they see. In short, throw it away if the final product does not meet quality standards. Popcorn is super cheap!

Ok, now on to drinks. This is my biggest pet peeve. The next time the Coke or Pepsi service guys come out to your theater MAKE them give you a "brixing kit" for your machines. Do not accept no for an answer. Tell them you will switch to the other evil beverage supplier if they refuse. (This always works.) Then once they leave, brix the damn machines yourself! There is nothing worse at the concession stand than a shitty Coke. Brixing is super easy, but again you do not want to do it just exactly "to spec". Cokes are miraculously close to perfection when careful brixing is performed, but I have never seen a Coke or Pepsi tech tweek them quite to perfection. Utilize at least 3/4 of the brixing cup and always rinse the cup out after each brixing fill. When done, test your machine by stopping and starting it multiple times during a brix to see if it doesn't have quirks where it blasts out a bunch of carbonated water every time the nozzle is started. (How many times do you see concessionists "bumping" the trigger to top off a cup? Yes, that can actually make for a very bad drink if the machine is not set up properly!) If you find issues, make those techs fix them.

If your company is purchasing "turbo" or "mix in the cup" machines, then I really feel for you. These machines just suck! For that matter, so does "bulk CO2"! Fortunately, a slower flowing drink machine with bulk CO2 is acceptable. The best machines out on the market right now are made by "Lancer" and are the regular speed nozzles. Tell your supplier that is the kind you want, and if they are afraid you might change over to the dark side, they just might give them to you! Unfortunately the bad boys of corporate purchasing hear the word "turbo" and "our machine pours really fast to save your employees time in filling the drinks" is complete bullshit! These machines take far longer to properly fill a drink than the old "super slow" machines. Why? The faster it pours, the more foam there will be! Perform this test when you get your new free brixing kit...brix one nozzle at warp speed pour to spec, then brix another nozzle of the same beverage to a slower pour to spec. Now pour a large drink. Which one took longer to wait for the foam to settle down so it could be "topped off"? Why the damned turbo one did! In short, always, always, always tweek your machines to pour as slow as possible (but don't go too crazy with slowing things down).

"But we just pour off the foam to fill drinks quicker." Oh how I hate seeing people who do that. Not only does it waste product, but it compeltely throws off the balancing of the mix! People that do this must be severely hurt. Do not allow your employees to do this.

Also, don't forget to change your filters regularly. You will be amazed at how much this will help the taste of your drinks.

So you've spent all that time making sure your drinks are the best in town, but they still taste like crap. Hmmmm, I'll bet I know what it is. Keep ice in the ice bins at all times!!! Yes, without that ice to cool the lines, the carbonation will be lost and you will have super nasty drinks! Do not even let it get below half way, ever! Ideally you should request "counter electric" dispensers, for those do not require the filling of the ice bin to guarantee a perfect drink every time. Get yourself a Lancer counter electric machine and you're set.

Just remember that drinks are like popcorn. They are super cheap and have mega profit. Customers will automatically purchase the larger size if they know the quality will be great. And of course, they had better be filled to the rim too. When you take a $4 drink and the top inch and a half is not filled after the foam settles down (on a cup that stands 9 inches), the customer has just been shorted $0.50! Don't do it. The customers WILL notice and they WILL feel cheated and they WILL remember.

Candy is pretty simple. First and foremost make sure you rotate your stock! Oh how I hate theaters that do not do this. Make sure you are always selling the oldest items in the stockroom first so you don't end up selling someone a candy bar that is bad.

Also, don't sell damaged boxes of candy. If the box is bent up, damage it. Customers are really getting ripped off on candy, so don't expect them to accept a box that has been smashed.

Make sure to sell name brand candies. This should be obvious.

Finally, put your highest dollar candies on top, so they are seen first. If your counter window has a "display", get someone about 5 feet tall (average height) to stand at an average position in front of the display and tell you what row stands out the most and put your expensive stuff there. When people see two things that interest them, odds are they will purchase the one they saw first.

Hot dogs are a major pain. If memory serves, the inside of a dog is supposed to be 150F...but that is too hot for the dog to not be completely roasted within an hour on that grill! What to do? Well, you can break health codes and run the grill at 110F (please do not do this, health codes are there for a reason)...or you could sell burnt doggies...or you could just use a little smarts and not go crazy by overfilling the grill. It's amazing how many times I go to a theater and see 20 dogs on the grill on a Tuesday night at 10pm. The nasty part of that is those dogs look like they have been on that grill all day long and will probably be saved to serve the next day. Dogs shrivel up and lose their taste when overcooked. Don't even consider selling a dog that starts to shrink up.

If a customer comes to you and wants a hot dog, but you ran out and the new ones you just put on the grill are not quite ready yet, ask that person what movie they are seeing and find out exactly where they will be and go deliver the item to them in the auditorium during the previews. Of course this can not always be done on a busy weekend night, but I would take that extra minute and do it for the customers anyway and WOW did they ever appreciate it. (I always kept a small pad of paper and pen in my pocket so I could write down their order and "directions" to their seat along with what clothes they were wearing and never once had a problem.) I know the customers appreciate the extra bit of effort, for countless times would people who I had no freakin' idea who they were would come up to me and knew my name saying "hi Brad, how are you today?" After a moment of my "who the hell is this person" face, they would say something like "that was so nice of you to bring us our hotdogs and drinks last weekend". Yes, indeed they remember.

Before I forget on the name thing, I always preferred to introduce myself more informally simply as "Brad" and not "Mr.Miller". This worked wonders with the staff, for it helped them to be more of a friend than a boss. The employees would always jump to anything I asked. (The key word here being "asked". I tried to refrain from ever commanding an order.) I think it also gave the customers a more personal level of service. Some will disagree, but that has always worked very well for me.

Many people are going to the "bag of chips and cup of cheese" for nachos. I personally do not like it, but I can definitely see how it helps save preperation time in the kitchen. For those theaters that still sell chips in a saucer, make sure that the concessionists are not using broken chips. Again, this is a cost thing vs. customer satisfaction thing. You wouldn't want to spend $4 on a little bowl of chips and a tiny saucer of cheese, so at least make sure the chips are not a pile of crumbled up pieces. If you are using portion packages of cheese, try and get the "mini" sized chips. They dip better and when we got them by accident, our customers would not leave us alone after we switched back. They just dip better in those little cups AND hardly any of the chips arrived broken because they were smaller in the first place.

Also on the nachos, stand the chips up vertical when building your own chip trays. The idea here is to give the customer an appealing array of chips, and this really does work when they see them sitting in a warmer. If you are successful in acquiring the mini chips, you will also find that your time to assemble the trays of chips will be cut down 3 times over, for those mini chips stack perfectly! Tostitos makes them. I think they are called "bite size", but again this has been a few years.

Let's not forget keeping the concession stand clean. A clean stand helps the customers to believe that the food handling that is done "behind the scenes" is done in a sanitary manner. (Of course you SHOULD be keeping a clean and sanitary kitchen to your local food service regulations, but I thought I'd better clarify that.)

Finally, get down into the concession stand yourself and show the employees that you are not asking them to do anything that you will not do yourself. Show them that you are not above working the stand and they will respect you more, work harder and practice your tips of the trade without having to force it out of them.

...and by all means, heed Ky's advice on letting everyone do their own thing in regards to upselling. There is nothing worse and more unappealing than seeing a line of robots that say exactly the same thing to every person over and over. (My preferred style was to overdo the stereotypical fake concessionist upseller with a Mr.Moviephone type of voice. People loved it and always said "ok" with a laugh.) Be friendly and the customers are more willing to accept suggestive selling.

Posted by Evans A Criswell (Member # 381) on 05-15-2001, 09:33 AM:

Excellent post, Brad. I think it should be required reading by not only theatre operators, but by all fast food restaurants that have drink machines. I've had many horrible drinks over the years. I'd say at least 20 percent have been mixed poorly.

About health codes: in Alabama, eating establishments are rated by the health department and the rating must be placed in a conspicuous location. Ratings vary widely and are even published in the paper here in Huntsville. 100 is perfect and anything below 60 will get a place shut down. A while back, one theatre got a really low rating and I mentioned it in a comment card and on my WWW site. There is no excuse for letting a health department rating get below 85, and it had slipped down to something like 73, I believe. I thought, "How the hell could a theatre concession stand get that many deductions when all they serve is popcorn and pre-wrapped candy and drinks?!"

Believe it or not, the health rating is a good indication of how well-run a place is. One particular theatre that I have a tendency to brag about every chance I get had a 99 health rating last time I was there. That manager seems to achieve "99" quality in every thing he does at his theatre.

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Evans A Criswell
Huntsville-Decatur Movie Theatre Info Site

Posted by Jerry Chase (Member # 660) on 05-15-2001, 11:06 AM:

Evans first comment about queueing theory is absolutely spot on. After years of observation, I am convinced that the optimal concession line length is three customers. Many people might think I'm nuts (that is probably true, but unrelated) but there is a logic to it.

Go to a fast food place you've never seen. Walk up to the counter and try to order a meal. If you are the first in line, you'll grab for familier items. If you are second in line, you have a chance to see the prices and "downsize" if you get sticker shock and think they are too high. If you are third in line, you have the experience of others buying and setting a standard, and you have a chance to explore the range of items being offered. At four people, the line starts to look too long. If lines are too short during peak periods, many people will walk right past, either missing the idea of interest in food entirely, or assuming that the prices are too high, or assuming that the selection or preparation is bad.

The entire concession staffing guidelines at T.A.L.P. were built on that concept. The managers eventually learned how to use historical data to properly set staffing levels that resulted in lines like this. Percaps rose accordingly.

Brad and others covered the basics, except for one important point. Using myself as an example, if I see a roach in a theatre, or evidence that they have been active, such as roach shit specks on counters or computer cables, the ONLY thing I will buy at concession is prepackaged sealed candy. If grocery stores can display and sell tons of foods without having a serious roach problem, then theatres can too. Ray Krock and Harlan Sanders understood this and the primary reasons for success of the early McDonalds and Kentucky Fried Chicken were SPOTLESS restaurants and employees.

Posted by Evans A Criswell (Member # 381) on 05-15-2001, 03:55 PM:

On Saturday night, May 5, someone called me who was interested in reopening the Gateway Cinemas, which closed in May of 2000. He wants to operate the theatre as a second-run and make it affordable for a family to go to the movies, and one thing he mentioned was his approach to concessions: have one size for popcorn and one size for drinks, both 1.50. So, for $3, one could get popcorn and drink. With the one size for each, decisions and service would be quick and simple. What do y'all think of this approach in comparison with offering more of a variety with higher prices? Would he be able to survive charging those prices, with admissions at around $2.50?

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Evans A Criswell
Huntsville-Decatur Movie Theatre Info Site

Posted by Ky Boyd (Member # 23) on 05-15-2001, 08:32 PM:

Evans,

I've seen small town theatres and some small theatres in bigger cities go with the one size one price thing. For some it appears to work. How does $1.50 for soda and corn compare to what other operators in the market are charging? Also is the size comparable? If the sizes are small customers could perceive the singe size/price thing as a hindrence. This may be especially true if the focus is on families.

(Pardon me while I rant a moment) This is something I don't get about modern parenting. Why do parents insist that each kid get his own popcorn, coke and candy? Doesn't anyone believe in teaching the value of sharing anymore? When my brother and I were kids and went to the movies with our Mom we'd get a medium popcorn and soda and share. Personally, I think parents are missing a valuable opportunity to teach kids to share while going to the movies. But enough of that rant.

Anyway, this one size thing could be a problem with families who insist on the drink/corn/candy for each kid routine. One thought would be to offer a family pack type admission on a certain night or nights where say $20.00 gets in a family of 4 with sodas and a family size corn.

By the way, how big is the Gateway Cinemas? One rule of thumb I've heard is that for a discount house to work, you need at least 6 - 8 screens so that you basically can play everything when it comes available. You have to get people to realize that every film will play your discount theatre for the concept to truly be profitable. And even then its tough.

Posted by Jerry Chase (Member # 660) on 05-15-2001, 08:49 PM:

Evans, will it work? In a word, No.

This has got to be someone looking at the situation from a naive viewpoint. He'll lose his shirt, and then some.

Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 05-16-2001, 04:07 AM:

I would upsize my soda if the concession counter also sold those inexpensive travel urinal things.

Posted by Glenda Cockrum (Member # 542) on 05-16-2001, 06:22 AM:

We are doing a package deal on our movies, a "great date special" or "buddy special" . 2 admissions, two regular (16oz) drinks, and one large popcorn. My regulars love it!! and 85% of the time it is families that buy the special and 80% of the time they purchase additional candies, keeps my cap around 1.70, not too bad for a small, single screen house. I also sell the very small boxes of the Mike and Ike type candies at 25cents each. When we show a family movie the parents love this, they give their children a few dollars (they spend every quarter!) the parents feel they are getting a good value , the kids are happy and my profit is still within a reasonable curve. Many parents have told me how much they like the small boxes, they don't like to think their kids are wasting money on big sizes that get spilled or wasted and they give the kids more money to spend on the "cute little boxes!" I have a very small number of people bringing in their own food this way and have had new people tell me they were told by friends how "family friendly" my concession prices are in this area. And you would be surprised by the number of adults that buy these small boxes, they say it brings back their chilhood, often they will buy $2.00 or more of the small boxes as well as the large boxes of regular candies. For us small independants this is a workable deal, of course for corporate chains it isn't feasible.

Posted by Evans A Criswell (Member # 381) on 05-16-2001, 09:26 AM:

Jerry, that's what I'm afraid of. The Gateway had 4 auditoriums (3 36' in width and 1 30' in width), and the guy was thinking about opening 2 of the auditoriums to start with, and trying to always have one kids' show and one adult show. I really don't see how he can make a profit unless he can get his movies really cheaply.

This theatre did good business on weekends, but was dead on weeknights (as are most theatres most of the time). The idea of having one kids' show and one adult show would not work as well as having a kids' show for the early showing in one of the auditoriums. Kids' shows generate very little 9:00 attendance.

I think opening this theatre would draw some customers there, but he'd have to make a pretty good profit off of each to stay in business. I doubt the $1.50 each for drink and popcorn would do much for him in that area, althought the customers would probably go for it. The manager at that theatre once told me that people expected cheaper concession prices at a second-run theatre as compared to a first-run theatre, and she got complaints about it.

I wonder if when the guy adds up the total cost of fixing up the place and operating it, if he'll still go through with it. I'll bet he'll have to charge more than he's currently thinking. I'm amazed that the theatre stayed in business as long as it did charging $1.50 per admission. The concessions were the same price at that time as the other Regal theatre, and I cannot remember the prices off the top of my head, but I know it costs more than $5 (maybe $6) to get a medium drink and popcorn.

I personally, am turned off by the extremely high concession prices and I seldom buy those items. Something needs to change so that theatres can start charging sane admission and concession prices. It affects families more than single people. I don't remember ever sneaking food into a theatre (although I may have at some point more than 5 years ago), but I know many people that admit to doing it. It bothers me (and many others) that a Coke and popcorn costs more than I can get a meal at many fast food restaurants.

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Evans A Criswell
Huntsville-Decatur Movie Theatre Info Site

Posted by Jerry Chase (Member # 660) on 05-16-2001, 10:14 AM:

Glenda, I suspect you are about to quickly find out that you can't package admissions and concessions together. There are a number of reasons why your film rentals don't allow this, but the easiest to understand is the example of someone showing the admission at a buck, the concessions at six bucks, and stiffing the distributor for the diffence between the buck and the going admission rates in the area. If you don't get a call now telling you to stop, remember that until a distib thinks you have paid _all_ the film rental due, you can be taken off service. By the time they get around to it, you may owe enough that you're out of business. Stop the packaging now, for your own sake. If there were still flat rentals you could do the concession/admission combo on those, but I haven't heard of a pure flat rental in years.

Evans, I agree about the high concession costs. I pucker every time I shell out for the stuff at the stand.

Flat out, the only way a theatre like the Gateway could even hope to re-open is with a landlord that is willing to lease deeply below market value. In some cases, the theatre may be valuable enough to a shopping center that this is do-able. Some landlords are now realizing that when the anchor theatre leaves, often other tenants leave as well.

$1.50 is a totally unrealistic price for drinks and corn, much like the thinking of a store owner who sells all his items at a loss and hopes to make it up in volume.

People tend to think that the fixed COG (cost of goods) is the only cost to selling an item. It is just the tip of the iceberg. There is the cost of the water, the cost of the power to make ice, the cost of the labor, the cost of the insurance, the cost of licenses, the cost of money (could a greater profit be made just by investing in a secure fund?), cost of office overhead, cost of toilet paper, etc.

People who want to go into a dead theatre and reopen it usually have either nostalgic memories or delusions of granduer. Chances are, they also haven't had any education on how to build or run a business and do projections.

Do the guy a favor, tell him to forget it.

Posted by Evans A Criswell (Member # 381) on 05-16-2001, 12:56 PM:

Jerry,

If I talk to the guy again, I'll try to find out more about why he wants to reopen that theatre. He will have to work out budgets for initial setup and for operations and maintenance. If he does that, it should become clear to him whether his idea will work or not. I can think of many risks he will have to assess.

1. The projection equipment company he's wanting to use is run by a man with many years of expertise, but he is at least 82 years old. Would his decline in health or death create a huge extra expense for theatre equipment maintenance?

2. Attendances may not be at the level he expects. (Woudl be a disaster regardless of profit per customer.)

3. Start-up expenses and/or operating expenses may be much greater than expected. (This would kill it from the start.)

4. Ticket and/or admission prices may have to be much higher than people would be willing to pay at a second-run theatre. This would defeat what he's trying to create as "a cheap place to take the family out to the movies".

5. The delay in getting second-run movies after initial run is greater than it used to be, so people may not be as interested in seeing the movies once he is able to get them.

6. Having one adult show and one children's show at all times will create extra work in making sure that underage people don't buy a ticket for the PG show and go in the R show. The previous manager told me that they could not run R rated movies in the house that had its door next to the restroom door because kids would go to the restroom and then walk right into that auditorium, and those doors were not in view from most of the lobby.

7. The shopping center did not allow the Gateway to put their sign back up on the main facade after the shopping center was remodeled. Not being able to have a sign advertising the movies showing will hurt the place. Serious advertising would be necessary just to let people know the theatre is open again.

8. The air-conditioner compressor went out, which was the reason given for the theatre closing previously. It was to cost $7000 (what I heard) to fix.

9. The shopping center was recently remodeled and the rent wanted has probably increased. From what I've heard previously, the shopping center management seems generally indifferent about the theatre. One person had already thought about reopening it but the rent was too high.

10. If not enough effort is put into presentation quality and cleanliness of the place, people may not come back, even if the cost is cheap.

11. The building originally opened in 1967. There may be significant structural problems that may need addressing. (roof leaks, etc.)

Reopening this place would be a huge undertaking. The per-cap from concessions would have to play a major role in generating profit. I just don't see it working.

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Evans A Criswell
Huntsville-Decatur Movie Theatre Info Site

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 05-16-2001, 01:39 PM:

Regarding flat rentals: at least as of a couple of years ago, Warners was apparently doing flat rentals in small towns for second-run exhibition. Also, most repertory titles are either flat or flat versus a sufficiently small per centage that it might as well just be flat, since the per centage would never exceed the flat rental.

As for the guy in Huntsville--I'd agree that his intentions are probably good, but that he should forget the idea if he doesn't have a bank full of cash and a willingness to lose a ton of it. The building repairs alone sound like they'd be enough to kill the business before it even got started, or else would force him to make cheap and low-quality repairs that the theatre would look and feel "dumpy" and would probably need even more expensive repair work in the short term future.

Second-run mainstream can work in certain markets: for example, in an historic single-screen theatre that can't commit to six-week engagements of a single film, in drive-ins, in small towns without competition, in vacation areas, etc. Otherwise, it's probably not going to be successful, and will probably end up being more trouble than it's worth if the theatre attracts the "wrong crowd."

If the guy feels compelled to re-open the place, he might want to look into specialty programming: art, foreign, independent, etc. I have no knowledge of the market in Huntsville (other than the voluminous information about what already exists, courtesy of Evans's web site), but there might be an unfulfilled niche in the specialty programming area, but that depends on location and lack of competition.

Posted by Jerry Chase (Member # 660) on 05-16-2001, 04:11 PM:

I think the two of you have pretty much covered it. Society being what it is, I can almost guarantee that a $1.50 house that is underfunded will attract the gangs and kids that are too poor to have social graces other than the basic survival, breeding, and raising hell instincts. Within a week of such shenanegans being relayed to concerned parents, the family attendence would plummet.

Niche market can work if conditions are right, but it doesn't appeal to the family crowd. The movies require thinking and often some depth knowledge of current events, history, psychology, or film conventions. I'm waiting to see what the Enzian, here in Florida is lining up for the film festival this year. There is a tremendous amount of work in building an audience, and many wanna-be art theatres could take lessons from the examples there.

Posted by Glenda Cockrum (Member # 542) on 05-17-2001, 08:07 AM:

Well I am giving my film companies their full addmission prices, I ring 2 regular tickets for each "deal", and give the customer an additional differnt type of ticket for the concession items which they hand to the concession. The additional money from the box office is then sent to the concession drawer by adding up the concession tickets , multiplying the dollars and sending the moneys to the box office. I do not short my films, and still make my customers happy.

Posted by Jerry Chase (Member # 660) on 05-17-2001, 11:15 AM:

Glenda, be sure to get a verification from your booker (in writing) or the distributor (as an addition to the contract) that this is OK. This is the type of thing that can reach back and smack you in the a--. What is at issue is not just that you are being honest with the film companies, but policies that they have set to prevent abuse (as if some of their terms weren't already abusive). You don't want to be the person holding the short straw if they decide to choose who gets to be an example for others.

Posted by Jason Black (Member # 684) on 05-18-2001, 12:58 AM:

While on the subject of high theatre concession prices...
Have any of you been to any pro sports event in the last , say, five years?

Theatre concessions aren't as high as you think they are when looked at the alternatives. Those $3.30 drinks at the race, along with those $5 hot dogs easily double our prices..

And please, we all know that concessions are the main survival tool/profit center for exhibitors. I, myself, would love to see our prices come down a bit. The way I see it, I have a lease to pay, but I don't have to make it off of one large popcorn, ya know?

After 13 years in the business, I have yet to determine which is the lesser of two evils, raising concession prices or ticket prices. Speaking of, our adult price increases today, 5-18-01. Just in time for Pearl Harbor next week and the onset of summer business..

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The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese!

Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 05-18-2001, 02:06 AM:

Ugh, I can't stand the sports event comparison. Most people go to a sporting event once, possibly twice a year. When they go there they are stuck there for over 2 hours, sometimes 3, all the while screaming at the top of their longs (well, maybe not all the time, but a lot). I should hope the average patron sees a movie more than twice a year.

Posted by Evans A Criswell (Member # 381) on 05-18-2001, 09:00 AM:

From many conversations I've had with my friends, most of them, when I mention my theatre information site, tell me they rarely go to the theatres. Instead, they wait for movies to "come out on video". It's a real problem that cannot be ignored. Others simply don't watch many movies, even on "video", and a surprising number of my friends don't even have a TV. Something is going to have to happen to allow ticket prices to drop or I fear more and more customers will be driven away. The loss of both of our second-run theatres in May 2000 put a stop to many people's theatre-going.

I go to the movie theatres simply because I enjoy going to theatres more than the average person, for several reasons.

1. I enjoy the theatre experience when done well, since it is my only opportunity to see the movies at 35mm resolution on large screens.

2. I find movie theatres interesting. (Theatre-Geek is the proper term?)

3. I've taken it on myself to rate the projection quality at each theatre in my area, which forces me to distribute my visits fairly evenly among the local theatres. Sadly, this is my primary reason for visiting a couple of the theatres in my area.

I don't buy concession items very often because I usually go to 7:00ish showings and I typically eat dinner between 5:30 and 6:30, so I'm not hungry at that point. When I'm faced with the option of buying a full meal at Piccadilly Cafeteria for around $7, a fast food meal somewhere for under $6, or eat popcorn and have a Coke at the theatre for around $6, it's not too touch a decision. I'm more likely to buy them if I go to a 4:00ish showing or a 9:00ish showing.

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Evans A Criswell
Huntsville-Decatur Movie Theatre Info Site

Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 05-18-2001, 02:33 PM:

Granted going to the movies is not as common as it used to be, but let me ask you this, how many cities have major league sports teams? How many have movie theatres? Some people have never been to a sporting event in their lives and may never end up going. I would find it hard to believe that anyone could go their whole lives without seeing a movie in a theatre.

Posted by Evans A Criswell (Member # 381) on 05-18-2001, 03:07 PM:

quote:
I would find it hard to believe that anyone could go their whole lives without seeing a movie in a theatre.

Well, you have people like my parents who haven't been in a movie theatre at least since before I was born. That's nearly 33 years. Because of the way they were, I didn't get to go to a movie in an indoor theatre until the let me see E.T. in summer 1982 after I begged them to let me see it. I saw it at the West Theatre in Cedartown, GA. It was terrible as a kid to see ads for movies I'd love to see and know I'd never get to see them until they were shown on TV.

Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 05-18-2001, 10:36 PM:

The Film-Tech equivalent of child abuse

Posted by Mike Spaeth (Member # 524) on 05-20-2001, 06:04 PM:

Dustin - the comparison is not due to frequency of visit. It's due to cost to sell those items. It's not a grocery store where you pick out your own stuff ... that company is paying someone to SERVE you. A typical baseball team does in excess of 1 million in attendance every year. How many theatres match that? I'd wager to say, far fewer than 50%. So, if anything, they are receiving more money from more patrons.

Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 05-20-2001, 07:21 PM:

True Mike, but my point is people are willing to spend more when they go to the stadium because they think of it as something special, maybe something they'll only do once or twice in their lives. The length of many sports games also has something to do with it. A baseball game might last 4 hours. On a hot summer day, your going to buy a beer, even if it costs $5. But when you go into a 90 minute movie, you've likely eaten before hand or are planning on eating afterwards.

I guees the argument boils down to how low is too low and how high is too high. $3.05 for a large pop and $4.40 for a large popcorn in a market like mine is too much in my opinion.

Posted by Charles Everett (Member # 889) on 03-10-2002, 02:01 PM:

Bumping this up for the newbies and to get it back on topic.

Combos will definitely help your per cap as long as they are kept simple and are reasonably priced. A large popcorn plus a large Coke is your basic combo. Big chains will usually go a bit farther on the combos menu (nachos at AMC, popcorn shrimp or chicken tenders at Loews).

Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 03-11-2002, 07:33 AM:

Down here in the Miami area we see per caps around $2.50. That is the average. However, down here a few companies have figured out how to consistantly beat the $3.00 mark. They do it by offering a "Hot Food" menu. Muvico Theatres and Cobb Theatres are doing this at thier newer locations. They have a kitchen with a fryer. They offer chicken wings, chicken tenders, french fries, corn dogs, and pizza (with a few differences here and there). I have seen that it can be a success. I guess it all depends on your demographic though......

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"Running through life at 24 frames per second"

Posted by Adam Fraser (Member # 1074) on 03-11-2002, 01:23 PM:

We stay right around $2.00/person selling popcorn, candy, slush puppies, and pop. I would not think that lowering prices would make very much of a difference in per caps because there will always be a certain group of people that will not buy anything from the theatre concession unless it is the same as supermarket prices, which is only about a 10% markup, mix that with the about 10% us theatres get to keep from movie rentals and that would not even be enough to pay the bills unless volume of candy sales went up by 100's of percentage points.

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Adam Fraser
www.pinestheatre.com

Posted by Zach Zagar (Member # 379) on 03-11-2002, 10:52 PM:

Higher p/c's are great. However, I'd rather keep the @2.00 p/c with just popcorn, soda and candy, than hit 3.00 with hot dogs, pizza, wings, etc.

The return is not as good unless you charge 15.00 for one slice of pizza.

Most theaters get, what a 4 or 5 time markup on candy... I'm thinking, hey, that's pretty good.

My theater consistently turns in $2.50+ with popcorn, candy, soda, and mild nacho sales.

Posted by Mike Spaeth (Member # 524) on 03-12-2002, 12:18 AM:

Don't forget Hot Dogs - I've gotta have a hot dog when I go to a theater. They are easy to prepare and you can just get the portion pack condiments ... no hassle involved!

Posted by Scott Madsen (Member # 167) on 03-13-2002, 12:08 PM:

What effect do free refills of pop and popcorn have on per caps?

Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 12-13-2004, 08:35 PM:

It has been 1006 days since the last post.

Posted by Chris Brown (Member # 2800) on 12-13-2004, 08:35 PM:

Very interesting thread here...obviously in the time since the last post, concession prices have skyrocketed (right now, for a Lg corn and Lg drink, the cost is $10). But the interesting thing is that, on average, per caps have stayed about the same (at least within Regal). Basically what is happening is that each time the prices go up, you lose a few customers or the ones you do have buy less. The increased revenue from the customers who buy the same thing no matter what balances out the revenue you are losing.

Personally, I think that we could definitely stand for some concession price cuts. Or even have special weeks (much like tax free week) where you save a few bucks on certain sizes of popcorn and soda. In addition to having combos, I would think that these practices would help increase percaps. My theatre is usually around $2.50, and has been about the same in the almost 4 years I've been there.

Unfortunately, working for a chain (Regal), all I'll ever see is prices going even further up. And as such, I believe that our percaps will stay very stable for quite some time.

Anyways, lots of great stuff here, thanks!

Posted by Barry Martin (Member # 1376) on 12-13-2004, 10:34 PM:

$10 dear god, is it this bad? It's been a while since I was in a chain and I do remember larges being pricy but the "super combo" at Loews when I was there in 2002 was like 7 bucks plus tax. At my twin a large and a large is $6.75 INLCUDING tax. Granted, our large isn't as obnoxiously large as most of the big chains; large soda being 32 ounces and large corn is somewhere in the realm of 70-80 ounces, but come on! The stuff is CHEAP. If we can make a living off an average of 500 people/week (of course more for the big films, but still not more than 1,500 in any given week) and each person is spending $2.25-$3.00 on average (and without ANY form of screen advertising) then so can any large chain. Oh wait, they have to pay six to seven figure salaries to big wig executives (who usually only drive the company bankrupt) so THAT'S why there is no profit. [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Jason Black (Member # 684) on 12-13-2004, 11:33 PM:

quote:
I guees the argument boils down to how low is too low and how high is too high. $3.05 for a large pop and $4.40 for a large popcorn in a market like mine is too much in my opinion.

Famous last words Dustin...

Now they're what, $3.50 and $5.00 respectively?

Posted by David Yauch (Member # 2754) on 12-14-2004, 03:31 AM:

Here we do a dollar refill cup. It's a 32 oz. plastic "souvenir" cup that you purchase and it's good for $1 refills for the rest of the year. The real reason we do it is that you can't take it to the AMC five minutes down the road. If you own the cup and you know you can get a drink thats regularly $3.50 for only $1, you'll do it. We go through thousands of these. We also have popcorn t-shirts. $20 gets you 1 free 85 oz. popcorn every visit for a year. Each year there is a different design on the shirt and cup and you can only use the current year(or next year if its november and the new cups have just come out). It's kept a LOT of customers loyal, and the per caps aren't bad at all.

Posted by Mike Spaeth (Member # 524) on 12-15-2004, 12:03 AM:

Large Drink - $3.75/$4.00
Large Popcorn - $5.00/$4.75

Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 12-15-2004, 01:25 AM:

Here a large drink is $3.35 and a large corn is $5.25. A tray of nachos is also $5.25 and another $0.75 for extra cheese.

Posted by Chris Brown (Member # 2800) on 12-15-2004, 02:06 AM:

Yea Barry, it is that bad! Granted, the large corn is a 170 oz tub for $5.75, and the large soda is a 44 oz cup for $4.25. Actually at my local theatre here at school (a Hoyts turned Regal), the large corn/large drink combo is $11.75! Only difference being the large cup is 64 oz, not 44. But still...definitely pretty ridiculous. And every other item we sell pretty much follows suit. Like bottled water for example. A 20 oz bottle is $3.50! You can imagine how many people simply walk away after we tell them that.

David, I like the ideas of refill cups and other customer incentives. A few years back, we had the "Regalator" cups (basically same thing as what you described). We didnt have another theatre that close to us, but I still thought it was a good idea. Unfortunately we stopped selling them a few years ago (corportate probably realized they were losing soda sales due to this...god forbid we do something for the customers instead of our bottom line!). But that's Regal for you...

Posted by David Yauch (Member # 2754) on 12-15-2004, 04:15 AM:

I think there would be a riot if we tried to stop selling the cups. Heck we get customers in october that are mad because we ran out of that year's cup!

I'm sure in the long run the theatre does lose money doing it this way, but it's probably a big reason we're the busiest theatre in arizona.