Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Cinemark/Video Projection/Concerts

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Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 08-07-2001, 12:20 AM:

Article at
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010807/en/music-cinemark_1.html

Tuesday August 7 12:04 AM ET
Cinemark movie theaters to test rock concerts
By Bob Tourtellotte

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - The Cinemark movie theater chain Monday unveiled plans to screen a live concert by rock band Sugar Ray in 14 locations across the United States this month as it steps up efforts to expand theater uses.

The move puts Dallas, Texas-based Cinemark Theaters at the forefront of an industry trend to fill otherwise empty seats with alternative entertainment.

``This is our first rock concert,'' said Cinemark spokeswoman Terrell Falk. ``We've really looked at this and said 'Okay, what's the potential for alternative programming on nights when we don't have a lot of people in the theaters.'''

Sugar Ray, whose recent CD entitled ``Sugar Ray'' debuted in the Top 10 on Billboard magazine's album charts, is scheduled to play at The Tabernacle in Atlanta, Georgia, on Aug. 15, and the show will be simulcast live, via satellite, for audiences.

The show is being simulcast by Los Angeles' Cinema Presents, which will be beaming the event to locations in a total 21 states, according to a Cinema Presents spokeswoman.

The broadcast will be all-digital with special projection systems set up by Cinema Presents. It hopes to roll out its systems in some 250 locations in the future, she said.

After years of heavy spending by exhibitors on new theaters in megaplexes with stadium seating and other amenities, many movie theater chains are struggling under a heavy debt load.

To ease the financial burden, theaters are looking to expand their uses, and one way has been to make them venues for concerts, plays, sporting events or corporate meetings.

In recent months, a digital version of Broadway play ''Jekyll and Hyde'' was piped into into several theaters around the country to test their viability.

Falk said Cinemark's showing of the play in one Dallas theater was relatively successful, whereas a similar screening in Ohio had a lower turnout.

For the Sugar Ray concert, Cinemark chose a variety of theaters and markets -- new and old, small and large -- to test the concept with the widest audience possible, she said.

For instance, Sugar Ray recently played in Dallas, and Cinemark is curious as to whether its stop there will spur fans to show up in theaters, or whether it will diminish interest.

But in a small market, such as Sierra Vista, Ariz., Cinemark wants to learn if fan interest is strong because the band has not scheduled a tour stop near the town.

Along with theaters in Dallas and Sierra Vista, Cinemark will be showing the concert in Orlando, Florida; Grandville, Michigan; Rochester, New York; Austin, Texas and other cities.

Recording artist, Uncle Kracker, will open for Sugar Ray. Tickets are for sale for $15, and can be bought at the theaters or through online ticket service, fandango.com.

Reuters/Variety

Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 08-07-2001, 12:29 AM:

And I was just wondering why there haven't been any concert films in a long time...

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 08-07-2001, 01:59 AM:

Interesting....

So it would seem that when business is up THE WALL, the powers that be are trying the old live music idea again. Nice to see that THE SONG REMAINS THE SAME....

Actually a theatre here in Edinburgh ran quite a succesful little season of concert videos, from bands that aren't likely to play in Scotland in the foreseeable future.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 08-07-2001, 06:55 AM:

What projectors are being used? Is the concert being telecast in HD video, or standard definition?

Here's an article from the on-line Boxoffice Magazine with a list of all the theatres showing the concert:
http://www.boxoffice.com/scripts/newsviewstory.asp?ID=748

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Posted by Mark Lensenmayer (Member # 134) on 08-07-2001, 11:08 AM:

Looks like Marcus is going to do this also (the date is 8/15/2001) at these theatres:

North Shore Cinemas -- Mequon, WI

Point UltraScreen Cinemas -- Madison, WI (two theatres at this site)

South Shore Cinemas -- Oak Creek, WI

Westown UltraScreen Cinemas -- Waukesha, WI

Crosswoods Cinemas & IMAX -- Columbus, OH

Cambridge Cinemas -- Cambridge, MN

Oakdale Cinemas -- Oakdale, MN (3 separate showings here)

Elk River -- Elk River, MN

Addison Cinemas and IMAX -- Addison, IL

Elgin Fox Theatre -- Elgin, IL

Gurnee Cinemas -- Gurnee, IL

Orland Park Marcus Cinemas -- Orland Park, IL

Prices look to be $15.00, although the Columbus site is a bargain at only $7.50. Tickets for some of the shows are listed as not available.

This show has received NO publicity in the Columbus area...can't speak for the other locations.

I'd like to check this out BUT the local art center is showing MOTHRA and BATTLE IN OUTER SPACE. I think MOTHRA sounds like more fun!

Mark Lensenmayer

------------------
"As a moral to young men who come down to the city, don't go round breaking people's tambourines."

Posted by Greg Mueller (Member # 17) on 08-07-2001, 02:25 PM:

Man that sounds scary. Last time I went to a concert it was for Frank Zappa and the warm up band was Wish Bone Ash. It was at the Paramount in Seattle. I went in just as as Wish Bone Ash was finishing. What a mess! Young kids drunk on their butts hurling chunks, breaking bottles tearing up seats etc etc. I'd never do a concert at my theater.

------------------
Greg Mueller
Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut
http://www.muellersatomics.com/

Posted by Rory Burke (Member # 512) on 08-07-2001, 02:32 PM:

Ive always said with digital cinema you can potentially show the latest in Boxing matches.....Laker finals.........Olympic events, Superbowls, Live Britanny Spears concert feeds etc etc........ Cinemark has the "cajones" eh? to be the first to venture. hmmmmm wonder whos next to follow?

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 08-07-2001, 04:03 PM:

Rory said: "Ive always said with digital cinema you can potentially show the latest in Boxing matches.....Laker finals.........Olympic events, Superbowls, Live Britanny Spears concert feeds etc etc......."

For an exclusive on things like the Super Bowl, NBA finals, Olympics, etc., theatres would be bidding against other media like television and cable networks. So you would have to guarantee a better return than these established channels. It's difficult to start charging for something people have gotten used to getting free.

If the idea would be to co-broadcast, offering the advantage of a big theatre screen, would it be enough to get "Joe Six-Pack" away from his free TV or low priced PPV and into a theatre?

The timing of these "events" is likely to conflict with the times feature movies do their best business too, so it's not as simple as just filling the "spare" time in a theatre.

Interesting times ahead.

Posted by Rory Burke (Member # 512) on 08-07-2001, 06:01 PM:

John P:

Hey there!!!!
In response to your response sir, these special venues are already happening today, just not in Digital Cinema format. Fans rushed to the LA Staples center to watch live feed during the away Laker championship games. People rush to sports bars during special boxing events and pay a "cover" to get in. Madonna did a live internet broadcast which showed "record" number of viewers. I say the interest from the public is there and Cinemark might be onto something. I dont believe this thread ever had the discussion of Digital Cinema in mind to begin with but I believe that Cinemark's new venture might be a possible idea for Digital Cinema in the future. Why not? It would give an extra versatility edge on the new technology over 35mm. I dont know how the studios would feel about it, but I'm sure theater owners would be happy to cancel their slowest running flick once a week just to gaurantee filling those seats with a option of "Spinal Tap" or a NASA lauching etc.
Rory

Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 08-08-2001, 12:43 AM:

quote:
Ive always said with digital cinema you can potentially show the latest in Boxing matches

I think that idea (video in theaters making non-film programming available) was first raised in the 1920's, & large scale rollout of video projection for boxing matches, etc. first hit in the 1950's. Generally, it starts off with lukewarm interest, then dies. Then it sort of cycles like 3D movies.

Maybe now with auditorium sizes being tiny fractions of the old houses, the margins may be there for being successful. I personally think that with that type of programming, image quality will not be so important. What will probably be more important is the programming itself -- massive pop culture artists might fill a house (N'Sync, etc.) but attendance for anything else is probably not going to be worth the hassles of rights neqotiations, etc.

Especially for concerts, even though many live shows are in former movie palace PAC's with bolted-in seating, I think that the seating & other viewing environment issues will not make concert projection (as opposed to concert movies) very attractive to potential ticket buyers for a concert broadcast. At the very least, it would be necessary to lift any ban on powwow dancing.

Posted by Joshua Voorhies (Member # 824) on 08-08-2001, 02:01 AM:

This might be a good idea.
It gives people a chance to see concerts they otherwise couldn't at a fraction of the cost. While not as good as the real deal, seeing it on the big screen with surround sound and fellow fans should sweeten the experience (sure beats pay-per-view on the tube). I think the biggest obstacle will be the pricing of the satellite and projection equipment.
More over, it will get more people in the door of Cinemark theatres.

'Cause they sure as hell ain't comin' for the damn nachos.

Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 08-08-2001, 04:19 AM:

That reminds me, I always pay attention to what movies are doing how much business when I work during the Super Bowl (I'm not a football fan at all so I don't care about missing it.) The art and drama stuff usually brings in the people who don't like football, but "Varsity Blues", which had been doing decent business, had ZERO people during the 5 PM show on Super Bowl Sunday. I guess that movie's target audience was all watching the Super Bowl.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 08-08-2001, 02:09 PM:

I find it interesting that no one has mentioned the difference in quality of the sound systems. Let's take Ian for example. Ian has two choices.

#1 He can go see his favorite band, N'Sync, LIVE in concert with what is "generally" (or at least supposed to be) top notch sound presentation at true concert levels. If he gets close enough, he may even be able to take in some of the air that was in their lungs creating that sweet sound.

or...

#2 Ian can go see his favorite boys at the local theater via video feed (Cinemark or otherwise).

Now we all know how much Ian idolizes those 5 lads and obviously the visual portion of the concert will be diminished by the mere fact he is seeing a video reproduction of the concert, but what about that sound presentation? "Most" theaters don't have what it takes to properly re-create the sound environment of a rock concert. And if they did, what kind of HORRIBLE bleed-through will there be into the neighboing auditoriums where the movie-patronizing customers will be complaining?

So really, has anyone taken the sound aspect into account in all of this? Or are the corporate big shots going to sit there and blab about "oh our super duper whooper mega diddly do wop sound systems will recreate that experience just as well, blah, blah, blah"? I think these guys will come to realize that music concerts will not sell like non-sound-intensive telecasts will. The presentation just won't be there.

Posted by Rory Burke (Member # 512) on 08-08-2001, 05:19 PM:

I must say that I do believe that in order to install a digital system to view this "media" like concerts etc it is also assuming that the sound system will also provide digital capabilities....and it also probably assumes that this means an acoustically sound theater with enough amplification...speaker arrangement....baffle wall...20db of headroom for digital capabillities etc etc......In fact I remember some prescreenings of Almost Famous....at the Mann's Chinese where they have "enough power" if you will and the concert scenes were great!!! I think a well built theater by todays standards can practically handle audibly any medium one can think uses for... I mean that is why we all went the digital sound route correct? to improve the existing and to be more versatile for the future. I have no doubts at the very least a properly certified THX theater would be able to handle any uses.

RORY

Posted by Bob Maar (Member # 763) on 08-08-2001, 06:15 PM:

There is no way a concert or event that is piped into a theatre auditorium is even going to come close to to equaling the atmosphere of being at the concert in person.

Sporting events, that are now shown on regular or cable TV, will not fly in the long run. They certainly will not equal being at the stadium and seeing the game and feeling the excitement generated by the crowd. It won't even equal sitting in your living room, with your family or your buddies, popping a cool and watching the game.

As a matter of fact if you pay $15.00 or $20.00 per ticket you will not be a happy camper at the end of the night.

So let it be written, so let it be done.

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 08-08-2001, 07:08 PM:

>>I remember some prescreenings of Almost Famous.... ...and the concert scenes were great!!!<<

That is because in 'Almost Famous' the filmmakers wanted to recreate the illusion of 'actually being there', most likely at great expense. Not to mention that a lot of the sound FX for the 'crowd' and 'concert ambience' were likely added in post, making it very difficult or impossible to recreate the same illuion in realtime without spending a great deal of money, which I can assure you will never happen, as the whole idea of digital is to cut costs. In the end it will come across as a video on a big screen. Sorry but not even close to being there.

Aaron

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 08-08-2001, 07:29 PM:

What Brad and Bob said. The idea that people will spend $20 to go to a movie theatre and watch a "live" concert on what is essentially a big-screen TV is really quite silly. People might do it once out of curiousity, but the concept isn't sustainable. Especially if the theatre has anything less than a concert-quality sound system. (BTW, the Mann Chinese [the one in LA...I've never been to Denver] is probably the worst-sounding THX house I've ever visited...it's really quite bad and gives THX a bad name.)

Further, as others have mentioned, this is going to cause huge problems with film distributors who don't want to see their product bumped from screens in favor of live "event" programming.

Posted by Kyle Abel (Member # 819) on 08-09-2001, 01:53 AM:

My theatre is hosting one of the concert feeds. They haven't brought in the equipment yet, but once they do, I'll provide some specifics (as long as I'm not forced to sign a gag order). I do know it's a satallite "live" broadcast. "Live" meaning all the theatres will be receiving the signal at the exact same time, not live in the sense that it will come directly from the stage to the screen. I think the main "benefit" for the audience is there will be behind-the-scenes stuff filmed. I'll let you know how it goes.

------------------
Kyle Abel
General Manager
Plano Movies 10

Posted by James R. Hammonds, Jr (Member # 673) on 08-09-2001, 02:28 AM:

Cinemark isnt the first to do this.
AMC did it last summer with the Rolling Rock Town Fair, they did a Tyson fight a while back, and they did it this summer with a Destiny's child show (which was taped and shown later).
I watched the Rolling Rock Town Fair broadcast and the video was just as you might guess....like watching a really big tv.
Picture quality was nowhere near that of film.
The sound was decent but nothing like being there.
It also didnt sell very well, and neither did the Destiny's Child show.
Im not sure about the Tyson fight

Posted by Paul Konen (Member # 41) on 08-11-2001, 12:51 AM:

Kyle, I would be interested in seeing the setup if I could.

Just drop me line.

Paul

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 08-11-2001, 11:26 AM:

I just realized that nowhere in this thread has the technological aspect been discussed. Does anyone know what type of video projector is being used? Is it one of the big DLP machines or something else? Is the video feed received in real time from the dish or is it recorded to tape (D5? some other format?) or hard disk and re-played later?

Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 08-11-2001, 01:25 PM:

If it is the same as we saw being demonstrated at ShoWest than it is for theatres that have the big DLP machine. I am certain that the program material will be distributed just as the Digital Cinema is distributed now. They will down load the information to a video server in some manner.

Being the veteran of several of United Artists wild schemes, I don't hold out much hope for this one. People go the movie theatres to see movies. For years major movie theatre owners have tried many things to make money with an idle movie theatre and mostly they don't work.

Posted by Kyle Abel (Member # 819) on 08-12-2001, 03:19 AM:

As far as I know (and again they're coming Tuesday to install the projector) it's going to be something similar to an In-Focus projector (or the like) mounted either in the booth or in the last row of seats (neither of which works well for me, but we'll see what they do). They've already come and installed the satallite dish (Dish Network) and ran a cable through an air duct into the booth. I'll give you an update Tuesday.

------------------
Kyle Abel
General Manager
Plano Movies 10

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 08-14-2001, 10:14 AM:

Kyle ---

Hopefully the screenings involve more than a 1/2 metre Dish Network antenna and a AV-quality video projector! (AFAIK, InFocus doesn't make any really high-powered projectors, their largest LP930 is only 3200 lumens. Even the Proxima Pro AV 9350 at 5000 lumens would be dim on a big screen.)