Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Refunds or Passes for controversial content in movies

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Posted by Joshua Voorhies (Member # 824) on 08-08-2001, 02:45 AM:

I was wondering what opinions the managers out there had of giving refunds or passes to people upset with something controversial in the movie.

I bring this up because I had a guy come up to me, well after close, wanting a refund on Original Sin. He explained he had watched the whole movie with his girl friend, but he was upset at the scene where a guy kissed Antonio Banderas. Just for the record, Banderas shot the guy after getting kissed. He shot him several times. He shot him good.
Even though the film didn't condone homosexuality in any way, the guy felt it did, and was adament about the money he paid on tickets not going to the studio (later in the conversation I realized he was quite the Baptist Bible Thumper).
As it was 1am, I couldn't get him a refund at the time and he couldn't come back the next day. I wound up giving him passes and telling him I would refund his tix for Original Sin and ring up a more wholesome movie (I lied). I felt bad after doing that for two reasons: 1) the movie ran fine. He was upset with the content. It had an R rating, he should have been prepared for it. He didn't deserve any freebies. 2) I doubt he found the whole movie unentertaining. The movie makers deserved that money.

Some other cases:
-the old lady who demanded a refund because the Fast and the Furious had a 1/2 sec shot of two girls kissing. Lesbians offended her. I gave her a refund and that's it; it was only about 40min into the movie.
-the guy who bitched about the offensiveness of Me, Myself, and Irene. The manager on duty gave him about 4 passes and a refund.

Posted by Christopher Duvall (Member # 284) on 08-08-2001, 03:33 AM:

Giving refunds and passes to those customers only re-enforced that behavior in the future. I strongly believe that customers should research the movie before watching. In the past, if a customer had a problem with the content of a movie, I would redirect them to the studio that distributed the movie. It is not the fault of the theatres of what is portrayed in a movie. Now, I will empathize with the customer and I am very cordial with them. I will give them addresses to websites that give reasons for ratings and addresses of the studios so they can contact them. One place I started checking out is ScreenIt.com
http://www.screenit.com/

They break down every possible "offensive" clips of all movies released. The MPAA is another great source for that as well.
http://www.mpaa.org/

As far as a movie just plain sucking...tough. That is what movie reviewers and critics are for. Again, customers really need to do some research before walking up to the box office. Hollywood may eventually smarten up and stop making rotten movies if the customers would not go to movies they read about truly sucking. Do you think Warner would have let Joel Schlockmaker to make a 4th Batman film if the customers realized what a piece of crap the 3rd one was and did not show up for it?

In short, customers need to take their beefs with movies to the companies making the films and not the theatre managers. As theatre managers, we are responsible for running a perfect presentation, making and selling tasty snacks and keep the environment clean and safe. It is not to have the customers walk over us because they did not like seeing two dudes kiss in a movie.
I will now step down from the soapbox...

Posted by Jim Ziegler (Member # 86) on 08-08-2001, 05:03 AM:

Thats not as bad as the woman who cam eup to me one day, told me she fell asleep in a movie, and "wanted to know what I was going to do about it."

Posted by Michael Brown (Member # 890) on 08-08-2001, 06:51 AM:

Cinemas should definately not give refunds for movie content. If the film was projected with a good quality picture and good sound then patron should have to pay. I saw tombraider (which i hated) but i would not ask for a refund because its was presented with no problems.

Posted by Bob Maar (Member # 763) on 08-08-2001, 07:04 AM:

Anybody out here , who is willing to give a refund or a pass for film content...Please let me know. I will notify my friends in your area to patronize your theatre.

P.S. If your in the New York area, I will visit personally.

Posted by Steven Pickles (Member # 785) on 08-08-2001, 08:43 AM:

So long as my commitment to the customer has been fulfilled, I will not give refunds or passes. I have to evaluate each situation a little bit differently because I hate people walking out unhappy or upset that they ever came to the theatre in the first place. If I find that some bases we should have had covered were overlooked then I will make them happy... if they are being bitchy I will usually refund so as to not directly invite the problem back into the door, while passes I usually use to regain faith in the company. I don't want to bring a trouble patron--or one who picks us apart--back if I don't have to... because in any theatre you can find something that isn't up to par all the time. Well I'm getting off-subject so I'll stop here.

Posted by Jerry Chase (Member # 660) on 08-08-2001, 01:52 PM:

I disagree with all of you. Strongly.

In this case, I agree with the concept that the "Baptist Bible Thumper" was trying to get across.

It is NOT up to the moviegoer to do anything more than a cursory check of reviews. This is entertainment guys, and telling a potential customer that they have to research a film before seeing it is shooting yourself in the foot with a double barreled shotgun. Do you see restaurants objecting when a customer takes a few bites of a dish and then refuses to eat it? Sheesh.

People who object to a film strongly enough to walk out want to be heard. In most cases, the money isn't the issue.

When managing, I gave a pass if the person could present a straightforward statement of why an aspect of the film affected them so strongly that they felt they had to walk out -whether or not I agreed with those views. If the person wanted a refund, I made sure they showed me their I.D. and filled out a refund voucher with their name. Sometimes, I even provided the customer with the written name and address of the distributor, to impress upon the person the idea of complaining where it might make a difference (and also, to fix in the customer's mind that the process of getting a refund wasn't terribly easy and each of us would likely remember the other person on sight.)

All of the above holds provided the customer walked out mid-show. Anyone who stayed to the end never got a refund, and only rarely got a pass.

It is not a theatre manager's responsibility to honor ever piece of s--- film that comes out other than to present it properly and professionally. It IS the manager's responsibility to honor the bond with the customer. The production company that releases a crappy film may not even be around until next season, and the people there could give a rodent's derrier about anything but the fast buck. The customer, OTOH, will -if treated properly- come back many times.

I know about "problem" customers, and those that leave mid-show because they are offended, are usually not "problem" customers, but are customers who give a damn about what they see and who they support. Frankly, if we had more of them, there would be more 70mm films like "Lawrence of Arabia" and fewer slice-and-dice or bathroom humor films. When the last one gives up and leaves without a fight, we might as well ask him to turn out the marquee as he goes, because without feedback and financial responsibility there won't be anything worth watching.

I sympathize that dealing with this type of complaint is anything but fun, but the general blame for it lies outside of your direct control. It is in your best interest to teach customers how to complain effectively, even if you can't teach tolerance. You don't need to be whipping boys when the solution for both you and the complaining customer is on the label of a film can or at the bottom of a poster.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 08-08-2001, 02:05 PM:

Sometimes when people have complained about the movie content, I have apologized for it, and then they always say, "well it's not YOUR fault, you didn't make it!" or something to that effect. Then if I give them a pass, it's a great PR move.

We never give passes to people who stay for the whole film.

I agree with Jerry that it's a shame that people are now expected to "do research" before they come to a movie.

Posted by Jim Ziegler (Member # 86) on 08-08-2001, 02:17 PM:

Jerry,

The problem is not the people who leave after a few minutes (like the old folks that came out of our promo screening of Jay and Silet Bob)... THe problem is when people watch the *entire* film and then say they didn't like it...

Posted by Jerry Chase (Member # 660) on 08-08-2001, 02:45 PM:

Jim, I understand that part, which is why anyone watching to the end of a film never got a refund, only a pass at best. Generally, my rules were - up to 20 minutes into the feature = no problem, after 20 minutes and until the credit roll refunds got tougher but were possible,and from the start of the credit roll, our part of the contract had been fulfilled. The name of the distributor was happily given out, but only a darned convincing argument got a pass.

Arguably, the contract between a movie-goer and a theatre isn't complete until the moviegoer has seen the entire film. Since the plot of a film generally requires staying to the end, not giving a refund after a ticket purchase that was caused by deceptive advertising could be legally untenable, as well as messy. Movies are not like tires, where a pro-rata refund can be used. Passes are generally accepted, but sometimes a check has to be cut from a corporate office.

Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 08-09-2001, 12:29 AM:

Passes after no more than 30 minutes for any reason, after that nothing, for any reason other than power failure equipment failure etc.

Posted by Greg Anderson (Member # 235) on 08-09-2001, 01:21 AM:

I can't understand why a "bible thumper" would see an R-rated movie... especially one with such sexually-charged advertising. It may be a case of someone who can't deal with his own guilt for having CHOSEN to see a movie which any of us would have known he should have avoided.

It always upset me when the patron wanted to blame me for a bad movie (not a bad presentation). It's as if I were the most immediately available representative of the entertainment industry and the customer wanted to take out his frustration on me. I always wanted to say, "Hey, buddy, I saw the same ads you saw and at least I wasn't still stupid enough to come see this movie!"

Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 08-09-2001, 02:20 AM:

I've never heard of a bookstore policy of refunds & returns based on whether a buyer liked what was in the book.

Posted by Jerry Chase (Member # 660) on 08-09-2001, 11:54 AM:

Barnes & Noble local stores - absolutely no questions asked on returns as long as you have the receipt from the store. I have returned many books that were not up to snuff even weeks after purchase. I'm fairly sure Borders has a similar policy.

Most bookstores now have cafes and easy chairs so that browsers can sit down and read a few pages or even an entire book. Compare that user-friendliness to theatres, where we have to kick out browsers of movies. It is no coincidence that these bookstores are enjoying a huge increase in popularity and sales while theatre attendence continues to decline on a percentage basis.

"I can't understand why a "bible thumper" would see an R-rated movie... especially one with such sexually-charged advertising. It may be a case of someone who can't deal with his own guilt for having CHOSEN to see a movie which any of us would have known he should have avoided."

I can't see putting myself that deep into a single individual's mind to guess at motivations, especially if I didn't know him personally. I also find it somewhat presumptious to make assumptions about one individual or how others would react to him. To do so depends on a reliance on stereotypes. The comment could be correct, or it could be totally off the mark. The best that could have been done would have been to have asked at the time "Why did you choose this movie in the first place?" The answer is probably innocuous. I've been suckered into dozens of bad sci-fi films just because I like sci-fi and always hope for hidden gems. Other people get suckered into paying for bad sequels. Mistakes are made. People have different tastes and different moral and religious structures.

Posted by Jim Ziegler (Member # 86) on 08-09-2001, 01:53 PM:

There are differences between browsing books and browsing movies..

1) If you are browsing movies and decide to go to one you don't have a ticket for, the distributor of that film does not get paid.

2) If the movie you dont have a ticket for but decide to see anyway sells out, a ticket holder may be without a seat.

3) People coming and going out of auditoriums annoys others.

4) In a megaplex, thousands of people wandering about is a security risk

5) The browsers we get now frequently think they can buy one ticket and stay all day. Too many people do this and we go broke.

Posted by Jerry Chase (Member # 660) on 08-09-2001, 02:01 PM:

Jim, you are certainly correct on all of your points. Perhaps what is needed is something similar to pay-per-view, where the first five minutes of a film are free. Monitors in the lobby could play loops of the first five to ten minutes of each film so that customers would be more able to choose more wisely, or there could be a cable channel that had nothing but the first five minutes of each current boxoffice release. We can't continue like we are with continuing drops in moviegoer percentages. It may be time for some drastic changes.

Posted by Paul Turner (Member # 832) on 08-09-2001, 02:02 PM:

I generally try to screen my films before i show them. When playing "Sexy Beast" I warned my senior crowd that it was violent and the accents make the dialogue unclear to the best of ears. Many declined to see the show. If a customer wants a refund half an hour into the film, they get it. After that, it's a case by case basis. We played a really bad film: "Forever Mozart." For some reason about half way theu the film the decided to just occasionally grace the audience with subtitles. Somewhat annoying to the non-French speaking members of the crowd. I was giving refunds throughout that whole film.

It seems the best way to avoid problems for me is to post and having on the recording as much info about the film as possible. But, a polite and somewhat articulate cpmlaint will almost always have me going as far as i can to make them happy. If a customer goes into high maintence-bitch-mode, then I do what makes me happy.

The fact of the matter is, it's MY theater. I will rarely show a film that doesn't have some redeeming quality. If the recoding or the website or the mass-emailing didn't scare you off. If when I'm selling you the ticket I tell you that there is objectionable material in the film doesn't stop you, then it ain't on me. Since it's my theater, and I don't like bible thumpers, homophopes, eco nuts(or fanatics of any stripe) , or people who talk on their cell phone when driving, chances are all your going to get is a short apology and a blank stare until you get tired of talking and leave.

However, always remember, the best thing you can do is ask them, "What will it take to make you happy?" The answer is often much easier than their ire would suggest.

Posted by Michael Gonzalez (Member # 593) on 08-11-2001, 06:45 PM:

I think that the quickest way to clean up the movie industry would be for the theater chains to start offering refunds if the movie sucks.
Unfortunately with the state that the industry is in, most of the movie studios would go bankrupt.

Posted by Joshua Voorhies (Member # 824) on 08-13-2001, 06:03 AM:

Mike-
The studios would never let the exhibitors do that. Also, unscrupulous customers would take advantage of that like they do everything else.
While I would like to hardline customers who watch the whole movie and then try to get refunds/passes, I fear they would go to my boss and get me in trouble. Why? Because my boss fears they'll go over his head and get him in trouble.
Corporates policy is pretty much kiss the customers ass no matter what. Those of us in the field have to walk the fine line between doing what it takes to run a theatre well and hoping the customer doesn't write a letter to the corporate office. As a result of this, adults can get away with a lot more criminal behavior than teens because we know adults are more likely to send a nasty-gram to corporate.

Posted by Michael Gonzalez (Member # 593) on 08-13-2001, 08:19 PM:

Of course the studios would never allow it. Thats the point. Far be it for them to be held accountable for the crap that they put out. I wasn't being serious, I was offering an "in a perfect world" kind of scenario.

I'll present a more realistic approch. Represenatives from NATO and the studios should get together and come up an estimated gross (for the entire run)for each and every feature that is released. Then the Box Office split should be determined baised on how the movie actually performs against the estimated gross. This will prevent studios from hyping the hell out of movies for their opening when they are getting an 80% (or what ever it is) take and having us take it in the ass when the movie dies a week later.

I highly doubt that something like this will ever happen either. However, something needs to be done about these two week and their gone movie releases. Studios have to be held accountable somehow.

Posted by Charles Everett (Member # 889) on 08-20-2001, 11:16 AM:

Refunds? Passes? NO!

You'll only be encouraging the bluenoses and religious fanatics to go after you.

Posted by Christopher Duvall (Member # 284) on 08-20-2001, 11:23 AM:

Amen brother...

Also, as I said before, this encourages people to complain (beg) for passes as well. The theatre should be held accountable if the theatre does something wrong. Hollywood should be held accountable if they do something wrong. ok ok ok...rant mode off............

Posted by Dave Williams (Member # 299) on 08-28-2001, 02:47 AM:

I had a lady demand a refund because we had rated R previews on a PG film. ACTUALLY, we had previews for rated R films on a PG13 film. The previews were for training day and for jay and silent bob, and the film was tomb raider. The previews were appropriate as the crowd that was there for that film had a likelyhood of wanting to see the films I had previews for. The movie was more offensive than the previews anyway.

Dave

Posted by Joshua Voorhies (Member # 824) on 08-28-2001, 07:42 AM:

Did she ask for the refund after the movie, or did she walk out after the trailers?

Posted by Bob Ferreira (Member # 102) on 08-28-2001, 11:32 PM:

Our theatre has signs proclaiming that there are no refunds for film content, which also covers the pass issue too. Why should people get their money back on a movie? If the movie is rated R, (which about 90% of the time it is) people should know what they are getting into. My favorite is when people take their kids to an inappropriate film and when they find out, they want a refund. The person working box office always asks parents if they know a movie is rated R when they are getting children's tickets, or in the case of some of the more raunchy movies (such as American Pie 2 or Freddy Got Fingered) we show them a write up on the movie. More often than not, the people had no idea what a movie was about and they will change their minds about going, whether they are alone or with a child.

Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 08-29-2001, 10:43 AM:

As a non-theatre owner/operator, maybe I can be enlightened here:

Some of you are giving out passes or refunds because a certain title does not appeal to someone?

The viewing public is getting awfully childish in the way that they expect you to be their mommies and make everything all better.

Do people that have "pay per view" on cable (or the satellite) get to have refunds just because they dont like the film?

I was visiting friends over the weekend that ordered a PPV movie from the satellite service. 45 minutes into the film, the holder of the remote proclaimed, "This is LAME!" and changed the channel.

I was not consulted about the choice.
People seem to think that you are there only to serve THEM and you should kiss their feet if they can find anything to bitch about.

What do you think would happen if one of you just said "NO!"??

Rant off.

Posted by Wes Hughes (Member # 981) on 08-29-2001, 04:29 PM:

I say NO all the time....but truth be known our policy on this is very loose, so it's on a case-by-case basis....but as a general rule NO.

The problem in my area is that the customers get their asses kissed at the corporate run megaplexes...they get anything they want. Not so here at my independently run theatre. We have up signs, and at the bottom they politely ask customers who do not agree with our policies to please go somewhere else!

Posted by Joshua Voorhies (Member # 824) on 08-30-2001, 04:46 AM:

my bad.

Posted by Christopher M. Belch (Member # 846) on 09-01-2001, 11:04 AM:

We take cases like this on a case-by-case basis, but generally we will give people passes. Why? One word—“institution!” We are an institutional theater who will give in to customer demands. We insist that every single person going to the theater, museum, or village is happy when they walk out, and free passes is the way to do it. I tend to disagree with this practice, and I wish they would say no, but that’s not my call. I wish for once we would stand up to the customer and teach them to use some common sense, but we don’t. Don’t get me wrong; I think that if you have a legitimate problem, you should get passes or something. But, I think there are way to many people who complain simply to get something for free!!!

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 09-02-2001, 03:16 AM:

"The problem in my area is that the customers get their asses kissed at the corporate run megaplexes...they get anything they want. "

Not so at my corporate run mega-plex, we refuse people all the time unless it is a very serious, valid complaint.

------------------
--Sean McKinnon
Manager
Loews Cineplex Entertainment
Liberty Tree Mall 20
Danvers, Mass
www.enjoytheshow.com

Posted by Joshua Voorhies (Member # 824) on 09-02-2001, 08:27 AM:

I think this thread just ran the full curve- from "give them whatever they want so they go away" to "screw 'em."

Maybe a good rule of thumb is refunds/passes only in first thirty minutes; passes only if legitimate problem.

Here's something else to think about: what if there's a disruptive person in a theatre, and the customer doesn't say anything until the show lets out. Do they deserve free passes (after all, they did still see the movie)?