Is there a market for older movies, older could mean anything from 1year old or older.. If so, do you buy the movies, or rent them.. What would be the benefit of buying the movies vs. renting them.. Are there any benefits..
Thanks..
Not worth it in my book.
Right now its current retrospective has movies about the NYPD.BTW, I was a Film Forum member from July '92 until last month.
Latest Newsweek mag mentioned the total revenue for Disney on the title "Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs". It's currently at $1.1 billion before the planned special 2 disk, DVD release later this year (I believe).
The matinee deal with the Chamber worked out so well that we have continued to do it every year since with a current film (usually Disney's holiday release). It's a win-win-win...the public gets to see a movie free, the Chamber gets great PR for promoting the latest greatest kids movie, and we get a full house and all the concessions.
Moral: People are cheapskates, as if we needed any proof of that...
quote:
Forget it! Whether it's older mainstream, classics, foreign, they'll beg you to run them but when you do, your staff and you will be the greatest part of the audience, THE PUBLIC WON'T SHOW UP.
That's absolutely the truth as far as surveying older people (around 40+)about whether they'd come out to see movies. They'll rant about how a theater should show "good movies, like they used to make" & say they'll come to see them, but don't show up. Ask, & the basic response is, "Well, we don't like to go downtown" or some sort of equivalent to "We're getting older, & just park our ass permanently at the house. But we'll still bitch about the selection of things made available to us that we'll never get up to go see anyway."
You really have to market older films differently, & simultaneously across different demos. Make them part of a series, with some semi-hip theme (a James Bond festival, etc.), & make sure that you understand that a BIG part of the audience is "film enthusiasts", who are going out to a theater to see things that *are* available on video. So you gotta put on a show. In a PAC, regular scheduling either for every weekend for a summer series or every other weekend for year round is essential, because people get into a habit of going to see the movie.
And if you want senior citizens, the only proven way of getting a significant number is to cut deals with retirement homes & get involved with arranging transportation.
Even colleges have a tough time drawing crowds. Especially those without a powerful film studies program.
------------------
Tao Yue
MIT '04: Course VI-2, Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
Projectionist, MIT Lecture Series Committee
Click onto the Film Forum as Charles suggested they are one of the Top theatres for this type of operation. Repertory and festival type of presentation have a definate place in exhibition. You will probably have to work a little harder it getting the proper films booked onto your screen.
Check out the Angelika in the So Ho section of New York and the Lincoln Plaza on Broadway. The Lincoln Plaza is owned by New Yorker Films whick itself distributes mmany foreign films.
You may want to speak with manager at the York Square Theatre in New Haven, which is surrounded by Yale University, and I know that they do repertory booking from time to time.
Hopefully your company is a member of CATO (Connecticut Association Of Theatre Owners) who meet every couple of months near you on the Berlin Turnpike. At there meeing you will meet fellow managers and owners many of whom do repertory and festival type of booking.
You never know unless you try.
I'll definetly look into the college areas, and themes would fit into my business plan, so again, thanks for your advice..
cdm
quote:
Even colleges have a tough time drawing crowds. Especially those without a powerful film studies program.
And it's because the idiot academics who make the decisions have mostly moved to projection video & gotten rid of 16mm & 35mm projection facilities. They say "we save money & it's easier to show videocassettes", then when they talk about declining attendance & you point out how NTSC video has lower resolution than 16mm, projection NTSC looks worse than that even, & ask why an audience should come out for something they can rent at Blockbuster & would look *better* at home...the academics get evasive, defensive, & start doing all sorts of embarassing-to-watch ego conservation.
Just like the exhibitors at corporate level, they have ways of insulating themselves from responsibility for the bad effects of putting on a poor show.
Don't get me started on college film programs, "media" studies, & the folks that run them. I know they're all different, there will be good & bad, but far too many have been responsible for things like:
wrecking the projection facilities at PAC's that wanted them, & thought they were doing better than a professional cinema service company because they could *actually get a real head of a university film department* to consult for them; some of these film departments have poisoned their local market for art & rep films via nasty projection NTSC in auditoriums, & collusion with the local papers local "Arts" editors conceals the fact that the rep house in the next town is actually running good looking 35mm, etc.
Too many "academics" are WILFULLY ignorant, & upon discovery that their performance & knowledge is inadequate, instead of trying to fix the problems they've created or keep them from happening again, bend all their energies into bluff to maintain face.
The 16mm educational rental market must be dropping like the stock maket. There are some good film programs & college series out there, but they are now absolutely in the minority.
Colleges without a powerful film program can't maintain film capability because they lack the funds to do so. And however much we may denounce professors who switch to NTSC, if they're given the choice of showing one film to their students or five videotapes/laserdiscs/DVDs to their students, the choice is clear.
At most colleges, film projection capability survives only because of the student film society. However, at MIT, attendance at LSC movies has dropped 75% in the last twenty years. Reasons: megaplexes opened in the area, and every dorm has a DVD player.
I don't think it's only or even mostly because colleges run NTSC that they can't get audiences. Most people don't know enough about technical quality to care. If they did, the entire film industry would be based on 70mm because nobody would go to movies shot on anything narrower. I think it's because of the availability of DVDs for classic films. Why see a potentially dirty, splicy, faded-to-pink print when you could see a digitally cleaned-up, color-corrected DVD?
------------------
Tao Yue
MIT '04: Course VI-2, Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
Projectionist, MIT Lecture Series Committee
quote:
Colleges without a powerful film program can't maintain film capability because they lack the funds to do so. And however much we may denounce professors who switch to NTSC, if they're given the choice of showing one film to their students or five videotapes/laserdiscs/DVDs to their students, the choice is clear.
The reasons I have been given by academics running film programs for switching to projection NTSC
1. Can rent from local video outlet
2. Just push a button, do not need a projectionist
quote:
Why see a potentially dirty, splicy, faded-to-pink print when you could see a digitally cleaned-up, color-corrected DVD?
There's the parallel with the academics having selective disclosure & no more ethical accountability than exhibition chains at corporate level.
Why watch a low-resolution, low contrast, pixelly NTSC projection video when you can project an enjoyable recently-struck 16mm print?
The answer is laziness, cheapness, the fact that the film program coordinators are technically less aware than film enthusiasts, & ethically the coordinators are interested only in how much they pack into their resume, not how good the show is or the effect upon the "art form".
There are exceptions; I know several here are affiliated with some college film exhibition, & even some are academics themselves. I wonder how Dr. Leo dealt mentally with instructors who had less practical & accurate information than he. My guess is that he just kept his head down.
quote:
I don't think it's only or even mostly because colleges run NTSC that they can't get audiences. Most people don't know enough about technical quality to care. If they did, the entire film industry would be based on 70mm because nobody would go to movies shot on anything narrower.
My observation is that people stop going to venues because they put on a poor show. The whole aim of a night at the movies is an enjoyable evening of entertainment, & just as you say, the audience does not know & shouldn't be expected to know technical details. If it's good, they'll come back. If it's middling or stinks, then it does not satisfy their requirements for an enjoyable evening of entertainment & they won't do it again. They do know when the show is poor, but lack the technical skills & vocabulary to describe the reasons for its shortcomings. That's why there is a technical side to the whole affair, to quantify & control the aspects of show. It is the responsibility of the people putting on the show to make it a good show; the audience only notes if it's good, bad, or indifferent, & is expected to act on that.
Successful film series are successful because they're good shows.
Video movie series reduce their own audiences, because they're poor or no better than what you can get at home. Why go out otherwise?
It's a saying older than the movies, & still true:
Bad publicity can't hurt you, but a bad show will ruin you.
I was merely pointing out two things: (1) even colleges which show real film have a hard time drawing crowds (2) MOST colleges cannot afford to maintain film projection capability. These are unfortunate facts, but they're both generally true (with some fortuitous exceptions). I may have made some other points which you are picking faults in, but I doubt you'd disagree with (1) or (2).
And if you agree with (1) and (2), then it follows that you can simultaneously be acadmically honest and not have the resources to pursue real film projection.
In other words, you can't paint all colleges with a broad stroke -- does this one have film projection? Great. Does this one have NTSC projection? Oh, no matter how poor their department is, it must mean that they're academically dishonest and we should attack them. Of course, you didn't state this exactly, but since you focuses only on the poor quality of NTSC and ignored my main points, that's the meaning I took out of your reply. If that's not what you intended, I apologize and request a clarification. We probably agree on the fundamentals and have just misunderstood each other's main points.
------------------
Tao Yue
MIT '04: Course VI-2, Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
Projectionist, MIT Lecture Series Committee
Call 1-800-NOCOPYS (the MPAA video piracy number), and turn them in. I'm sure the college would not like the negative publicity.
/Mitchell
quote:
Does this one have NTSC projection? Oh, no matter how poor their department is, it must mean that they're academically dishonest and we should attack them. Of course, you didn't state this exactly, but since you focuses only on the poor quality of NTSC and ignored my main points, that's the meaning I took out of your reply.
Yes, that is exactly what I meant.
They do not represent their "Film Series" as "projection of rented videocassettes".
Because if they did, almost no one would come. Why should they?
You got nothing. You've just got an academic program dishonestly trading on the features of theatrical exhibition which they do not have.
My observation of the academics who misrepresent these showings is that 1) they don't care, as long as it bloats the resume' of arty film things 2) they believe people should come just because they *say* they should, not that there is any reason for them to.
They will typically reason only partially "It's a film series, they should come see these films because it's culturally important", then willfully evade attendant issues of the same material being better available just via rental, but without the rotten NTSC projection quality. They are knowingly trading on an expectation of theatrical film projection, when that is knowingly not offered. When there is poor attendance, the organizers refuse to admit that it is because people have no need of a misrepresented pseudo-theatrical presentation of material they can better enjoy presented *not* via the series' nasty NTSC video projection, & that the audience feels taken in for coming to an inferior presentation & doesn't return. That would admit duplicity & ignorance on the part of the organizers.
#2 is, I'm afraid, a typical example of the cliche' of academics not living or operating in real-world conditions, or even wanting to.
Even if it's free, if you want "customers", the questions are
What are you selling?
Can they get it better & cheaper somewhere else?
Why should they come?
Summary of my last post: colleges which run NTSC are not necessarily academically dishonest. Did you mean to say that just because a college runs NTSC, it is wrong?
Summary of William's last post: Yes, that's exactly what I mean. Anybody who runs NTSC must be fooling the public.
So let's get some basics straight:
Q: If a college willfully distorts its video program, is it being
bad?
A: Me: It's evil. But not all colleges do it.
William: It's evil. All colleges which run video are evil.
Q: If a college runs video but pays license fees and does not mislead
people, is it being bad?
A: William: It's evil. It can't possibly be doing anything right.
All colleges which run video must be distorting something.
Me: No. They don't have resources, and we should not fault them
for not having an endowment of Harvard's size.
Are these answers accurate in the face of the posts that we've both made? I think so, and I certainly hope that William's seeming answer to the second question is a result of the tone he used when posted, not a result of his real beliefs.
That would be like saying that anybody who has a big-screen 4:3 NTSC projection TV and invites his friends over to watch the Super Bowl is misleading them by not having a 16:9 ATSC DLP rear-projection TV. Well, of course it's not ideal. But it's not wrong if you don't go around telling everyone that you have a hi-def DLP TV. And just because you invite people over doesn't mean that you are automatically misleading people.
I remember another seemingly irresolvable controversy on this forum in which one side completely missed the other's points. Can't find it now, but there was a discussion of the relative merits of platters and changeovers. Both POVs were equally valid: in general, changeover booths are better run, but platters are actually gentler on film when done right. It's a matter of opinion -- half full or half empty.
That's what we're arguing here -- does NTSC video automatically mean that the college is bad, or merely that it doesn't have a lot of money? Perhaps our points of view stem from our experiences with college NTSC projection -- William has seen terrible abuses, I've seen good meaning people who've never tried to pass it off as film and are forced to resort to it only because they don't have the funds to run film.
So I think we won't be able to talk on common ground on this issue until William has seen what a non-abused NTSC program is like, and I've seen how bad abuses can get.
For now, I think we should do two things:
(1) Stop arguing about this.
(2) William should turn in the college that's illegally showing
videotapes to the general public.
(1) will save us a lot of effort, since we can argue whether the glass is hall full or half empty until the end of time. (2) will make William feel a lot better, and will actually be doing something about the issue rather than complaining to me (who hasn't yet seen that type of abuse) about it.
------------------
Tao Yue
MIT '04: Course VI-2, Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
Projectionist, MIT Lecture Series Committee
Please join me in the Joke-a-thon and enjoy a laugh or two.
I think I should point out in case there is confusion that it can't be assumed that college film series video comes from local rental shops. Videocassettes are available for rental that are indeed licensed for exhibition by educational institutions.
I noticed the videocassette section in a catalog like Swank or something which I associated with 16mm offerings. I don't
remember the small print for those videocassettes -- whether they were
classroom use only, or cleared for educational, nonprofit showings like movie nights, assemblies, etc.
Still, although videocassettes licensed for showings by educational institutions are available, I don't know of any particular *use* of those educational videocassette rental arrangements by college film series, but do have knowledge of some college art film "film series" advertised to the general public as just picking up DVD's & VHS cassettes from particular local consumer rental shops.