Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: 2001, after all!

This is topic 2001, after all! in forum Ground Level at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Mark Ogden (Member # 43) on 09-20-2001, 07:21 PM:

It seems Warner Bros. is going to cough up 2001: A Space Odyssey in a new 70mm print(s) after all. It's scheduled October 5th at the Seattle Cinerama, with unspecified December dates at the Egyptian in Elay, the Castro in San Franscisco and a return to the place of its American premire, the Uptown in D.C. Anyone else know of a firm date?? (This was reported in Variety, OBTW).

Posted by Michael Barry (Member # 237) on 09-21-2001, 01:57 AM:

Did Variety specify how many 70MM prints would be struck, and if they were mag or DTS?

Posted by Thomas Hauerslev (Member # 566) on 09-21-2001, 02:43 AM:

Have a look at 70mm screenings where I try to keep track of 70mm screenings everywhere.

------------------
Cheers, Thomas
..in70mm - The 70mm Newsletter
www.in70mm.com www.dp70.com www.70mm.dk www.hauerslev.com http://hjem.get2net.dk/in70mm

Posted by Michael Hunt (Member # 772) on 09-21-2001, 04:33 AM:

Well, its been out on 70mm in the U.K. for a while now.

Warners have also struck some new 35mm prints - there are two of them in the U.K., and at some point today, whilst I have my building manager's hat on, I need to disappear into the box to make up one of these.

For those that are interested the 35mm print is ten reels long, has an interval at the end of reel six, is in 'scope, and is marked as having all digital formats (but no DTS disks!)

------------------
Uncle to JEDI Hunt,
honest!

Posted by Paul Linfesty (Member # 214) on 09-22-2001, 11:23 AM:

Actual L.A. Egyptian dates, according to the L.A. Times, December 20-January 1. I understand these prints (print?) are,is SR mag with splits.

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 09-22-2001, 11:27 AM:

OK, so I can gather this is a limited release. Does anyone know of any locations in FL that will get it?

Posted by Joel Michalec (Member # 995) on 09-23-2001, 01:11 AM:

Is 2001 going to be released wider in 35mm?

Joel

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 09-23-2001, 03:33 AM:

The print I saw here was conventional 70mm mag, with SR applied. That is effectively Todd AO, with SR. Mono surround and no boom channel.

Posted by Ky Boyd (Member # 23) on 09-23-2001, 08:25 PM:

From the Fall 2001 Castro Theatre Film Calendar:
2001: A Space Odyssey in 70mm
Nov. 21 - Dec. 6
"We are thrilled to be one of only three theatres in the country to present this new 70mm print of Stanley Kubrick's masterpiece, 2001: A Space Odyssey. The film has been out of release for more than five years in preparation of this 2001 release, originally planned for hte first of the year. But Kubrick's notorious perfectionsim survives him, and the print took a little longer than anticipated to get just right. This 70mm print has been newly struck by Warner Bros. from the original inter-negative, with remixed sound."

Posted by Michael Hunt (Member # 772) on 09-26-2001, 06:13 AM:

The 35mm version of 2001 is in scope, but has the sides masked, giving it a ratio of about 2.2:1

It has SR, SRD, SDDS, and DTS optical tracks. The print I received didn't have any DTS disks

------------------
Uncle to JEDI Hunt,
honest!

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 09-28-2001, 09:17 PM:

The Uptown (Washington DC) is scheduled to play 2001 in 70mm starting November 2nd...for two weeks.

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

Posted by Bernard Tonks (Member # 809) on 09-29-2001, 06:42 AM:

Michael:

Interesting that you gave the ratio of the 35mm print of 2001 as about 2.2:1. When I first showed the film on release over 30 years ago the 35mm prints were full width scope 2.35:1.

At that time I was fortunate to see 2001 in 70mm at the Empire, Leicester Square. And again at the Casino Cinerama (now Prince Edward Theatre) in 70mm Cinerama.

I lived in Gloucester when I was a tiny cinema freak. I remember the Plaza (Odeon), Hippodrome (Gaumont),Regal (ABC), Picturedrome (Ritz), and the Empire. I also remember seeing the closed bomb damaged Deluxe which was directly opposite my first school.

Posted by Bernard Tonks (Member # 809) on 09-29-2001, 06:45 AM:

Michael:

Interesting that you gave the ratio of the 35mm print of 2001 as about 2.2:1. When I first showed the film on release over 30 years ago the 35mm prints were full width scope 2.35:1.

At that time I was fortunate to see 2001 in 70mm at the Empire, Leicester Square. And again at the Casino Cinerama (now Prince Edward Theatre) in 70mm Cinerama.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 09-29-2001, 04:06 PM:

The old 4 track mag print is a full 2.66:1 as there is no optical track and the image is the full width between the stripes

Posted by Dick Vaughan (Member # 540) on 10-01-2001, 10:33 AM:

I hear rumours that despite having the facility to screen the 70mm print on the louvred Cinerama screen , Seattle are only projecting it on the "flat "screen.

Anyone know for sure ?

Posted by Tao Yue (Member # 836) on 10-02-2001, 03:49 PM:

On the rec.arts.movies.tech newsgroup, there is a thread going named "2001 At Seattle Cinerama Will Be Shown In Cinerama." The gist of it is that 2001 *will* be shown on the curved screen. Whether it will look good on that screen depends on how well they set up for it.

Too bad I live in Massachusetts.

Posted by Paul Linfesty (Member # 214) on 10-04-2001, 03:20 PM:

Actually, the original 2001 35mm prints were standard mag/optical. However, because these prints were slightly "pilarboxed" the original 2.21 image from the 65mm negative (that meant to be seen, that is)was preserved.

2.66 CinemaScope never existed as a theatrical presentation ratio. (although if CinemaScope had used a double-playback system as it did in demos, it would have.)

the mag only version first used for Cinemascope had a 2.55 ratio. However, by the late fifties, mag/optic prints were the norm for 4-track mag releases, yielding a 2.35/4 intended projection ratio.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 10-04-2001, 03:40 PM:

The history of the 35mm "Scope" format is detailed on Marty Hart's "American Widescreen Museum" website:
http://www.widescreenmuseum.com/widescreen/apertures.htm

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Posted by Paul Linfesty (Member # 214) on 10-05-2001, 02:18 AM:

Here's the Widescreen Museum's link showing the 35mm reduction print of 2001:
http://www.widescreenmuseum.com/special/2001.htm

Posted by Dick Vaughan (Member # 540) on 10-05-2001, 02:33 AM:

Heres an interesting link re : 2001 projection format
http://www.visual-memory.co.uk/amk/doc/brown1.html

BTW I have reliably been informed that,despite their initial plans, Seattle will now screen 2001 on the Cinerama screen. Thankfully someone seems to have taken notice.

Posted by Bernard Tonks (Member # 809) on 10-05-2001, 07:55 AM:

John Pytlak said:

I'm not sure if the original 35mm prints of "2001" maintained the original 2.20 :1 aspect ratio of the 70mm Super Panavision 70 Prints, or were cropped to 2.35:1 anamorphic, with an aperture of 0.839 X 0.715 inches, that was standard at that time (SMPTE/ANSI standard PH22.106-1965).
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………...

I can definitely confirm that the original 35mm release print I showed some 30 years ago was cropped 2.35:1 anamorphic, mine was with an optical track only.

Dick’s link above is extremely interesting, thank you for that.

Just noticed in the press that 2001: A Space Odyssey is showing at the BFI London Imax Cinema from Tuesday 9th October.

Posted by Charles Everett (Member # 889) on 12-12-2001, 12:52 PM:

This just in: New York gets the re-release of 2001 this Friday (12/14) at the Loews Astor Plaza, Broadway & 44th. Better yet . . . it'll be in 70mm/DTS!

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 12-12-2001, 04:55 PM:

You're sure it's DTS-70? The print that played in DC last month (and in Seattle, etc.) is mag.

Posted by Mark Ogden (Member # 43) on 12-12-2001, 10:12 PM:

The ad which is running in various NY newspapers has the Astor Plaza run in DTS. This must be a second new 70mm print, the print which played earlier in Seattle and Washington has just closed at the Castro in San Fransisco and will be opening next week at the Egyptian in Elay, it will be running at roughly the same time as the Astor Plaza engagement.

The Astor is known to be 70mm DTS capable, they had a little publicized return run of "Titanic" in that format a few weeks ago.

Posted by Dick Vaughan (Member # 540) on 12-13-2001, 04:36 AM:

I would be very surprised if the print at the Astor is DTS when all the new prints ,both European and US , that are currently known are SR mag stripe. But then again I have worked in this business too long to regard anything as a certainty!

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 12-13-2001, 10:28 AM:

Karen of DTS should be able to tell us if there are any DTS 70mm prints of 2001.

Posted by Karen Hultgren (Member # 395) on 12-13-2001, 11:54 AM:

Yes, we have done 2001 in both 70mm and 35mm. We have discs available in several languages. If anyone needs discs, please send me an email (or call if you are in the USA) and I'll do my best to get them to you.

Karen at DTS
khultgren@dtsonline.com
(800) 959-4109

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 12-13-2001, 01:10 PM:

Thanks, Karen. How was it remixed from the original six-channel mag to DTS?

Posted by Karen Hultgren (Member # 395) on 12-13-2001, 07:22 PM:

John,

The mix on the discs is standard 5.1.

Karen at DTS

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 12-13-2001, 10:07 PM:

What is it with these film companies.. get theaters some DTS-70mm prints already! Great sound and picture at a reasonable price. Jeez....

Posted by Tao Yue (Member # 836) on 12-13-2001, 11:38 PM:

quote:
Yes, we have done 2001 in both 70mm and 35mm

Then it seems that Warner Brothers is planning a wider 35mm release next year. I hadn't heard any rumors about a 35mm release, but I guess the runs in Seattle and DC have convinced Warner Brothers of this film's ability to make money.

------------------
Tao Yue
MIT '04: Course VI-2, Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
Projectionist, MIT Lecture Series Committee

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 12-21-2001, 10:50 AM:

The following is reprinted from another popular film website, and i thought that the FT crowd might like a look at it. its pretty depressing

-AS

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

2001: A Space Odyssey- Loews Astor Plaza, NYC

Well, I got all excited last night reading this post and at 9:15pm, I hopped in the car and drove at 70mph to get to Manhattan to catch the 10:20pm show. I have to agree with Bernie, the Astor Plaza is a far cry from its glory days. It seems like even what used to be the first run, "flagship" theatres like the Astor Plaza (where every show was a roadshow presentation) they have become nothing but corner-cutting, grind houses.

2001 70mm quality: Or lack-thereof. So I get there just in time to catch the entr'acte Legetti music. Hmmm, the curtain is already opened and the audiences (about 150 -- good crowd for a Tuesday night at 10:20pm) is sitting, staring at a blank screen; the dowser is opened which allows us to watch the scratches that have already accumulated on this fairly new print. Music fades, first frame hits the screen with the gorgeous, deep blue background and the stylized MGM logo....it is out-of-frame. We wait. And wait. It takes the person we know is not a projectionist (thanks to Bernie's post) almost to the end of the Zarathustra sequence to correct the misframe. Only he doesn't rack it down enough, and so for the rest of the film, we are treated to seeing the white splice flashes with EVERY shot change. Pretty damn distracting to say the least. OK, I think, I can live with this...just ignore the flashes. But now it becomes all to apparent that something is wrong with the sound as well. There is a very obvious flutter, much like you would hear if the pressure roller is not engaged on the sound drum or the sound drum is not spinning freely or the wrap around the drum is too tight or too loose. Or it is possible that it is simply a poorly recorded print? I conclude it is more than likely one of the local problems, not the fault of the print. This painful flutter continues for the entire film. Every time the horns in each of the Zarathustra sequences play those predominant high notes, the people around me can hear my teeth grinding.

I go back to see if I could find someone, anyone who could address this problem. I am told by the kid sitting outside the projection booth door that THERE IS NO PROJECTIONIST. The kid is dressed in jeans and a sweatshirt -- this engagement doesn't even rate a full fledged manager to handle the booth -- it gets a lowly usher. The projectionist, it's explained, comes in only on Fridays. Wonderful.

I said, "this can't be a digital soundtrack, can it?" He says, almost with a sense of pride, "Oh, I haven't the faintest idea. I just have to make the change if it messes up." I dig further and find out that by "the change" he meant from the 70mm projector to the 35mm projector running the 35mm backup print [running] simultaneously with the 70. He went on to say that at a few of the shows "the big film jumped out," so Warner Brothers made them run a 35mm backup. He couldn't give me any more details about what exactly did that mean, that the 70mm "jumped out," only that it was "messy." I'll bet!

Seems it would be to more to Warner's best interest to insist on having a FREAKING PROJECTIONIST in the booth at all times while they are running one of three $20,000 70mm prints. After all, the theatre is taking its house-nut off the top, the contract should say the house-nut allowance MUST include a licensed Projectionist's salary and he had to stay IN THE BOOTH while the print is running. Couldn't be more simple. I asked if there was any problem with the projectors regarding the sound. I said, "You DO hear how bad it sounds." He answeres, "Naw, it's an old film. It's the print." I knew I was doomed. I walked away mumbling, something like, yah, he doesn't know what sound format they are running but he knows whatever's wrong is the fault of the print.

Anyway, back to the presentation. Ok, so the sound is bad and the picture isn't quite framed properly.
Next is the DIRT. Gobs and gobs of it for the first half reel. And you know, those opening scenes are basically stills. The dirt looks all the more obvious on a perfectly motionless shot. But there they were, not what I would consider ordinary dirt specs, but BIG black gobs of crap doing a dance all over the screen. What do these people do, stretch the first 75 ft of film across the floor and let the ushers walk on it? Absolutely unforgivable. No reason why even if this junk arrived on the print, there's no reason why it can't be cleaned prior to the show. What an application of Film-Guard would have done to improve this presentation. Then there were a bunch of scratches in a fade-to-black -- the screen is totally black and here come 4 or 5 parallel, white emulsion scratches on the black background over four or five frames. A good projectionist would at least try to blacken them so they aren't so glaringly obvious.

Once we passed the dirt mines and the scratches, the picture cleanliness did improved, but the focus looked a tad soft for 70mm. I am thinking, I can get my 35mm print to focus as sharp as this. I just expected a bit more clarity. But in all fairness, it was quite watchable. Was the soft-ish focus the print? Probably not, given the fact that there was no one in the booth to touch up the focus throughout the entire 3 hours.

Now comes the intermission....or does it? Gee, I thought this is where it goes. Funny, it goes here in every show I have ever seen. Or maybe Mr. Kubrick left special instructions: "When you show 2001 at the Loew's Astor Plaza, cut out the intermission and the Atmospheres music leading into the second half (and be sure to throw out the intermission music and the "Intermission" title footage before you ship it out)." Yeah, direct notice from Kubrick....that must be why they deleted it. The pigs.

So, the Astor Plaza managed to turn a spectacular, classic, Roadshow picture....one of the most powerful films of the last 100 years, into what we used to expect to see in the neighborhood, sub-run, underbelly, $1.00 grind houses. The kind of thing where a roadshow picture would play at the Rivoli and right around the corner on Forty-Douche Street, the same title would be playing day-and-date at the Lyric or the Amsterdam at half price, but with a decided degradation in showmanship and presentation values. This was a Lyric level show.

Still, this is one awesome, powerful film of great impact -- the greatest work Kubrick ever created, IMHO. And it still holds up today, despite the lack of all that frenetic nonsense that most people expect to see. Every shot in 2001 looks TOTALLY believable -- maybe because NOT A SINGLE FRAME WAS GENERATED IN A COMPUTER!

There were three youngsters sitting in front of me. I wondered what they thought and if they found some of the sequences slow, which is a common criticism of the MTV generation. After the show (much to my surprise and delight, these kids sat through the entire credits) I approached them and asked if they had seen it before -- they had....on TV. "Now you can understand why you really never SAW it before," says I. They all agreed whole heartedly. They asked me if I had seen it. I chuckled. I said, yes, 30 years ago when I was a kid and it first came out, I saw it maybe 6 times, two in Cinerama, then about 50 more times over the years in various theatres where I worked. They wanted to know what Cinerama was. That was all I needed. We talked until they threw us out of the lobby and then for another half-hour out in the street. They wanted to know all about Cinerama. One kid said 2001 was one of the most beautiful films he had ever seen.

Guys, there may be hope yet.

PS -- there was no curtain after the show either. None at all. I mean, it hung there....it just never closed.

Frank Angel,
Dir, Brooklyn Center Cinema

Posted by Jerry Chase (Member # 660) on 12-21-2001, 11:19 AM:

Arrrgh! And we wonder why distribs are reluctant to strike 70mm prints. Someone go to this theatre and spit on the floor for me.

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 12-21-2001, 02:04 PM:

I've seen several films there (the first Star Wars, first Indy Jones to name a few,) and even it's it's hayday, the auditorium really just never sounded that good. I haven't been there in many years, but they used to have a pair of JJ's. The booth was fairly low, and had large glass windows on three sides, so it was easy to see in.

Posted by Mark Lensenmayer (Member # 134) on 01-05-2002, 07:59 PM:

Has anyone totally confirmed the sound format yet at the Astor? Most sources say it is mag, but one usually reliable source insists it is DTS. Is there anyone who has actually seen this print up close or looked into the booth?

Also, any later reports on film condition and presentation would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 01-05-2002, 09:00 PM:

it was MAG. sound was doing things that DTS shouldnt (dropping out mag-style and wavering). Several on another site concurred with this info. If there WAS a DTS70 print struck, only Karen would know if it exists and possibly where it is.

-Aaron

Posted by Tao Yue (Member # 836) on 02-04-2002, 11:37 PM:

Just saw 2001: ASO in 70mm at Coolidge Corner in Brookline, Mass. (inner suburb of Boston). First time I've seen a film in 70mm, and it blew me away. Properly used curtains (with colored lighting when closed, just like at a live theater), intermission, walk-out music, etc.

Some minor issues:

Sound could've been somewhat better. Theater is not equipped with Dolby.
Heavy flickering on bright scenes. Bulb? Shutter?
The brilliant color saturation of the film suddenly dulled in the dinner table scene in reel 10. Printing issue?

But easily ignored given the overall quality of the presentation. Three-quarters of the audience (smallish, roughly 50) probably didn't notice. The other one-quarter seemed to be either current or former projectionists.

Print was in great condition, even near the reel ends. So it can't be the one that got trashed at Astor Plaza. Print number 20014. Is this the one that made the four-theater tour starting at the Seattle Cinerama?

------------------
Tao Yue
MIT '04: Course VI-2, Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
Projectionist, MIT Lecture Series Committee

Posted by Sean M. Grimes (Member # 445) on 02-05-2002, 01:55 AM:

Tao,

Do you know when 2001 is running till at Coolidge? That would definitely be worth the drive. Thanx.

Posted by Tao Yue (Member # 836) on 02-05-2002, 11:35 AM:

2001 is running at Coolidge Corner until Thursday, Feb 7.
http://www.coolidge.org/

------------------
Tao Yue
MIT '04: Course VI-2, Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
Projectionist, MIT Lecture Series Committee

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-05-2002, 12:33 PM:

Tao Yue questioned: "The brilliant color saturation of the film suddenly dulled in the dinner table scene in reel 10."

That was deliberate. The art direction for that sequence was very monochromatic.

First saw that picture in 70mm on a deep-curved screen at the long-gone Century theatre in Buffalo --- still gives me goosebumps.

Posted by Tao Yue (Member # 836) on 02-05-2002, 06:58 PM:

quote:
That was deliberate. The art direction for that sequence was very monochromatic.

Thanks, John, for pointing that out. I've never seen 2001 on film before, and it's hard to tell the difference on video or DVD. However, with this new 70mm print, the colors are so nicely saturated that it's quite noticeable when they go away.

------------------
Tao Yue
MIT '04: Course VI-2, Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
Projectionist, MIT Lecture Series Committee

Posted by Dick Vaughan (Member # 540) on 02-06-2002, 03:15 AM:

For those on this side of the pond we will be screening the European 70mm print of 2001 on the Cinerama screen during the Widescreen Weekend (Friday 15th March)

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 02-17-2002, 08:31 PM:

Just got back from watching a 70mm print of 2001 at Trinity collage in Hartford, Conn. It was a good show, properly presented by a pair of V8's and Ashcraft CoreLight 150's. The print had some scratches, and I thought the sound had some hiss, but was overall very good. It was fun to be able to see all these little details you can't see on the DVD or even the 35mm print.

I was able to meet the operator, a very pleasant British fellow, and he told me they were using the orginal mag preamps that came with the V8! It is, after all, a collage and they don't have any budget for equipment. All things considered, I really felt they were getting the best out of the equipment they had.

He said he had heard somewhere that the 70mm print that had run at the Astor Plaza had been junked.